Demographics and the "Requested Dress Code"

[caviargal]

[quote name='Sky Sweet']Hi Caviargal :)

Thank you for letting me know. I wasn't aware of the fact that Regent had 2 for 1 specials.[/quote]

We booked one last week for a cruise on 11/23 of 2009, choosing a guarantee in minimum category (still 301 sq ft).

[bububr]

Most if not all dress codes are established to address the MINIMUM requirements, not anything above or beyond unless it is specifically stated.

Its almost always acceptable to dress above what is requested especially in the cases of special occasions; birthdays, anniversaries...etc.

I can remember one example after attending a wedding ( with HORRIBLE food ), on the way back we were so hungry we stopped at a Chili's. Everyone was in jeans, lots of families and here we were in our tuxes......We got a few looks....so we did take the ties off and unbutton our collars, but we didn't feel totally out of place.

Dave:eek:

[bububr]

While I find that over the last 10 years a lot of the population has become very inconsiderate...I've also developed a tough skin.

In the end...I've got my integrity and thats all that really matters in this day and age of the ME, ME, ME's and the selling out of personal respect.

Dave:eek:

[Shipyard Cruiser]

[quote name='bububr']While I find that over the last 10 years a lot of the population has become very inconsiderate...I've also developed a tough skin.

In the end...I've got my integrity and thats all that really matters in this day and age of the ME, ME, ME's and the selling out of personal respect.

Dave:eek:[/quote]

Can you narrow down the segment of the population you are referring to?

[bububr]

I could, but at the risk of offending the described offenders, I won't.

But thanks for asking:) .

Dave:eek:

[linda_22003]

[quote name='mollydogsmom']Back in the 50's and 60,s and even into the early 70,s air travel was mostly for the wealthy. In todays day and age it is common transportation. Back then people dressed for air travel, but now everyone flies. It is silly to me not to dress comfortably when you are going to be in cramped quarters for several hours.[/quote]

This also answers the question of why cruisewear (at least on the mass market lines) has deteriorated. People are now cruising who never used to be part of a cruise clientele.

In the case of air travel, it used to be a more gracious experience. I am in my early fifties, and I remember real china and silver for dinner service on a flight. Now, when you basically have to disrobe to get through security, one dresses for ease of passage rather than for looks.

[linda_22003]

[quote name='Sky Sweet']Hi Caviargal :)

Our friends will be taking their first cruise next summer to Alaska on Regent Cruise Lines. Since this friend is a partner in one of the most elitist law firms in this part of the country, he wears a suit to work every day and will not take a cruise that has formal nights. My husband and I have been thinking about trying Regent for a long time, and will probably do it if our friends like it.[/quote]

They will. :) We took our first on Regent last year, and my husband specifically said he couldn't make "tuxedo" and "vacation" fit together, so we chose one which had a "country club casual" dress code. Now that he has a new tux and the women he knows have complimented him on it, he's suddenly willing to do a cruise with formal nights. Go figure. ;) People on Regent, we found, know how to dress appropriately. It's something to which they're accustomed. I hope they have a wonderful time, and that you'll join them!

[dmk]

[quote name='bububr']I truly do not believe that 'clothes make the man ( or woman)'...and I think you could have the most upscale vacation in Bermuda shorts and a Hawaiian shirt.....

The real issue is simply: are you a person that RESPECTS, and HONORS the rules and traditions of cruising, as well as adhering to the rules that are set forth by the company you CHOSE to sail on........? Or are you a DISRESPECTFUL, SELFISH, "Me" type who really doesn't have any common courtesy for your fellow passengers, the crew, or the company that you are vacationing with...

Its a matter of choosing the correct vacation for your needs and NOT trying to change the rules you suit you. Simple research....anyone can do it. And one thing I've learned in life is that there is always comprimise. So for those who want a specific itinerary but there is a formal night there are choices....suck it up, choose to eat in the alternative dining area that is provided...or plan to which would be the ADULT thing to do instead of crashing the main diningroom, or choose a line that doesn't have formal evenings....Its not rocket science, at least for me.

What amazes me enormously.....is watching all of the commercials and seeing all of the print ads for various cruiselines. Some specifically state " EAT when you want, DRESS as you like, DO as you please" others like X advertise something completely different, Heck, even RCL advertises its rock walls, kids and family venues, flashy atmosphere and more casual dress visually in both print and tv. Yet people still feel they can invade X and change it to their specifications.

Regardless if X follows through and enforces its codes ( As adults now a days DO need babysitters it seems ) I find that a person who whole heartedly makes an attempt to purposely disobey a rule or ignore a code set forth by the company is a person without integrity, consideration, or respect....and not someone I would want to have in my presence.

Dave:eek:[/quote]

[B][FONT=Arial][SIZE=3][COLOR=navy]Well put Dave!:) [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

[Smartcookie]

Just curious, what demographic assumption would you make about two couples on formal night, both in their forties, couple A the man is wearing a navy blazer, polo shirt and chinos and wife is wearing a cocktail dress, couple B the man is wearing a tuxedo and woman is wearing a gown?

I'd be interested in what you would assume about their educations, occupations and income judging from the two types of attire? ;)

[Shipyard Cruiser]

[quote name='bububr']While I find that over the last 10 years a lot of the population has become very inconsiderate...I've also developed a tough skin.

In the end...I've got my integrity and thats all that really matters in this day and age of the ME, ME, ME's and the selling out of personal respect.

Dave:eek:[/quote]

I have another question.

Am I going to see a lot of the Me,Me Me type folks on a Celebrity cruise?

To be honest I have not encountered this type of cruiser on my few cruises.

But I have only cruised RCI and Carnival.

[Shipyard Cruiser]

[quote name='Smartcookie']Just curious, what demographic assumption would you make about two couples on formal night, both in their forties, couple A the man is wearing a navy blazer, polo shirt and chinos and wife is wearing a cocktail dress, couple B the man is wearing a tuxedo and woman is wearing a gown?

I'd be interested in what you would assume about their educations, occupations and income judging from the two types of attire? ;)[/quote]

Tie or no tie?

[Smartcookie]

[quote name='Shipyard Cruiser']Tie or no tie?[/quote]

No tie...polo shirt.

[clazz8]

[quote name='Smartcookie']Just curious, what demographic assumption would you make about two couples on formal night, both in their forties, couple A the man is wearing a navy blazer, polo shirt and chinos and wife is wearing a cocktail dress, couple B the man is wearing a tuxedo and woman is wearing a gown?

I'd be interested in what you would assume about their educations, occupations and income judging from the two types of attire? ;)[/quote]


If they are cruising with Celebrity the only assumption one could make, demographic or otherwise, is that the male half of couple A must be extremely poorly educated given that he is clearly incapable of reading quite simple English.
To quote from Celebrity's current brochure:

"Formal - cocktail or evening dress for women; suit and tie or tuxedo for men".

Simple really.

On the other hand if the assumption is that he is doing it deliberately the question becomes much harder to answer!

J.

[Smartcookie]

Okay, anyone else?

[bububr]

[I]"Just curious, what demographic assumption would you make about two couples on formal night, both in their forties, couple A the man is wearing a navy blazer, polo shirt and chinos and wife is wearing a cocktail dress, couple B the man is wearing a tuxedo and woman is wearing a gown?[/I]

[I]I'd be interested in what you would assume about their educations, occupations and income judging from the two types of attire? ;)"[/I]

What I would recognize would be Formal night means Formal. Couple A would be in disregard of the code, at least the man as a cocktail dress is acceptable formal wear by X standards. Couple B would be in compliance.

I honestly would take compliance over non-compliance regardless of level of education, occupation, or income. And I would not be able to make any personal assessment of either couple unless I spoke with them.

Don't turn this issue into something its not. Its not about how wonderful or not so wonderful a person is....It's how a person is given a situation, shown the rules and how they follow them or not.

One of the best examples I can remember is being invited to the Captains table on Formal night on a Mercury cruise. Of the four couples, John and I dressed formally as did another couple where he was an airline pilot and she was the 'keeper of the castle'. of the other two couples one gentleman was an accountant the other some kind of doctor....neither they nor their wives 'dressed' formally, Which was kind of a surprise being invited to the head table. Personally I don't think our host was too pleased as the conversation was held for the most part on our side of the table and the other two couples basically said nothing...but then later complained that they felt it was rude that they were not included in much of the conversation....basically I would call them 'snobs' even though they weren't wearing their Sunday best....As for the other couple...we still keep in touch.

The other example was at the head table on Zenith. Every couple was from a totally different socio-economic background, totally different occupations, and huge differences in age. The women were in gowns. The men ALL in tuxes.......We closed the restaurant down. The night was filled with wonderful conversation, good laughs, excellent food and flowing beverages. We were all different, yet we were all the same that night. I have to say that this was my all time favorite time at the Captains table.

So its luck of the draw, but its also about adhearance to the rules and its how you act when participating in a social atmosphere.

Dave:eek:

[excitedofharpenden]

OK, here I am on another dress code thread. I don't know what the matter is with me at the moment;) I throw out all this socio-economic stuff. All the demographics. It just seems so simple to me. You are asked to dress a certain way and you do what you are asked. If it says smart casual, you wear smart casual. If it says formal, you wear formal. That has nothing to do with socio-economic class or demographics. To me it is a matter of courtesy. There is no snobbishness with courtesy nor is there anything elitist. It's just courtesy for your host and those around you.

This is an opinion, not a rule. Everyone can do as they please, but that's how I feel. Any TA or research by the individual worth their weight in gold will give you the required information and advise you what is required.

From one that drives in toward the "Entrance" sign in a petrol (gas) station and drives out using the "Exit" directive.

I'm done.

Phil

[lysolqn]

[quote name='excitedofharpenden']OK, here I am on another dress code thread. I don't know what the matter is with me at the moment;) I throw out all this socio-economic stuff. All the demographics. It just seems so simple to me. You are asked to dress a certain way and you do what you are asked. If it says smart casual, you wear smart casual. If it says formal, you wear formal. That has nothing to do with socio-economic class or demographics. To me it is a matter of courtesy. There is no snobbishness with courtesy nor is there anything elitist. It's just courtesy for your host and those around you.

This is an opinion, not a rule. Everyone can do as they please, but that's how I feel. Any TA or research by the individual worth their weight in gold will give you the required information and advise you what is required.

From one that drives in toward the "Entrance" sign in a petrol (gas) station and drives out using the "Exit" directive.

I'm done.

Phil[/QUOTE]

Yes, yes, yes. I just love the tact and civility of our British friends!

[Schplinky]

[quote name='dmk'][B][FONT=Arial][SIZE=3][COLOR=navy]Do you think the age of cruisers influences the way one would decide to wear a jacket or not...a tuxedo or not? It has been mentioned often that "older folks" seem to follow the requested code... while "younger folks" don't.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

[B][FONT=Arial][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000080]What do you think?[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B][/quote]

I think we have seen as many older folks dressed in ways other than the dress code as younger. We sat near a woman who was seemingly aware that she was not as dressed up as those around her and she loudly said her age (seventy something) and said she had nobody left to impress.

[junglejane]

[quote name='Schplinky']I think we have seen as many older folks dressed in ways other than the dress code as younger. We sat near a woman who was seemingly aware that she was not as dressed up as those around her and she loudly said her age (seventy something) and said she had nobody left to impress.[/quote]

This sounds like my FIL. He is 75 and feels he's old enough and affluent enough not to have to impress anybody. On the other hand, DH and I are 45 and 49 and happy to comply with the dress code, as are our kids.

--Junglejane

[BigAl94]

[quote name='excitedofharpenden']OK, here I am on another dress code thread. I don't know what the matter is with me at the moment;) I throw out all this socio-economic stuff. All the demographics. It just seems so simple to me. You are asked to dress a certain way and you do what you are asked. If it says smart casual, you wear smart casual. If it says formal, you wear formal. That has nothing to do with socio-economic class or demographics. To me it is a matter of courtesy. There is no snobbishness with courtesy nor is there anything elitist. It's just courtesy for your host and those around you.

This is an opinion, not a rule. Everyone can do as they please, but that's how I feel. Any TA or research by the individual worth their weight in gold will give you the required information and advise you what is required.

From one that drives in toward the "Entrance" sign in a petrol (gas) station and drives out using the "Exit" directive.

I'm done.

Phil[/quote]


Exactly!!!!

[FinelyCruising]

[quote name='excitedofharpenden']OK, here I am on another dress code thread. I don't know what the matter is with me at the moment;) I throw out all this socio-economic stuff. All the demographics. It just seems so simple to me. You are asked to dress a certain way and you do what you are asked. If it says smart casual, you wear smart casual. If it says formal, you wear formal. That has nothing to do with socio-economic class or demographics. To me it is a matter of courtesy. There is no snobbishness with courtesy nor is there anything elitist. It's just courtesy for your host and those around you.

This is an opinion, not a rule. Everyone can do as they please, but that's how I feel. Any TA or research by the individual worth their weight in gold will give you the required information and advise you what is required.

From one that drives in toward the "Entrance" sign in a petrol (gas) station and drives out using the "Exit" directive.

I'm done.

Phil[/quote]

Makes perfect sense to me!

[Sky Sweet]

[quote name='linda_22003']They will. :) We took our first on Regent last year, and my husband specifically said he couldn't make "tuxedo" and "vacation" fit together, so we chose one which had a "country club casual" dress code. Now that he has a new tux and the women he knows have complimented him on it, he's suddenly willing to do a cruise with formal nights. Go figure. ;) People on Regent, we found, know how to dress appropriately. It's something to which they're accustomed. I hope they have a wonderful time, and that you'll join them![/quote]

Thank you, Linda :)

[Sky Sweet]

[quote name='Smartcookie']Just curious, what demographic assumption would you make about two couples on formal night, both in their forties, couple A the man is wearing a navy blazer, polo shirt and chinos and wife is wearing a cocktail dress, couple B the man is wearing a tuxedo and woman is wearing a gown?

I'd be interested in what you would assume about their educations, occupations and income judging from the two types of attire? ;)[/quote]

Hi Smart Cookie :)

Based on my experience, you can't tell anything about a person's education, occupation, or income by the way they dress.

However, in my opinion, whether a person decides to follow or ignore a dress code might give an indication of other things.

Prior to owning my own business, I held a middle management position for a corporation that was located in New York City. At that time, people in the corporate world were expected to dress a certain way, and if someone showed up for a job interview in inappropriate attire, I would be reluctant to hire them. That is because I thought a person who did not adhere to the accepted dress code at that time might be reluctant to follow other company procedures.

[Smartcookie]

[quote name='bububr']
Don't turn this issue into something its not. Its not about how wonderful or not so wonderful a person is....
[/quote]

Exactly my point.

The original poster mused as to whether a persons dress (or lack thereof) was indicative of a certain demographic. My example was meant to show that you cannot tell a persons socio-economic status by whether they are wearing a tuxedo or not.

I've found that people who own tuxedos wouldn't dream of shlepping them on vacation, but maybe that's just me.

[lvcruiser]

[quote name='lysolqn']If one is to follow your logic...you refer to those who prefer to dress formally each and every night as the socially elite (read "snobs"); therefore, those who do not want to dress up at all on their vacations must be socially depraved (read "slobs")! After all, what's good for the goose is good for the gander, no? Nothing personal...just having a little fun with you.[/quote]

If your idea of having fun with me is taking a one sentence quote out of context, turning it around to suit yourself and attempting to find logic when there was none, I'm not laughing. Why do you feel there is only the socially elite and socially depraved, with nothing in between? I was not attempting to provide logic in my statement; I was only passing on observations and some common sense rules to follow that make life a lot easier to swallow. If you want to talk logic, please realize that not all social elitists are snobs and not all snobs are socially elite. Are you familiar with the difference between valid and sound statements? The primary jab I was making with that entire paragraph, and not just the one sentence that you quoted, was at the people on this board who write as though their world will come to an end if someone doesn't get a handle on the atrocities Celebrity has made by not forcing passengers to follow the dress code. In my simplistic mind, a snob is someone who thinks they are so much better than another, they have the right and actively carry out that right to impose their opinions upon the others, telling them what to do, when they are wrong and what to do right, without being asked, and then getting even more upset when their advice isn't followed by the person who didn't ask for it in the first place. The individual who stated he would not talk to someone not appropriately dressed comes to mind. That's what I call missing out on life in a big way.

What makes one person better than another? Is it their social standing, how much money they have or how they look and dress? If you answer yes, then you're missing the big picture. I learned a long time ago not to judge a book by its cover. One day in the mid-80's, while working as a VP in charge of lending at a regional banking establishment in Naples, Fl., I had the opportunity to close loans for one of my loan officers who had called in sick. While reviewing two of the loan applications prior to the closing appointments, I noticed the first of two back to back closings showed a family net worth of $225,000 and the second showed a net worth of over $6MM. When the first couple arrived for their loan, they drove up in separate cars; the wife driving a Mercedes and the husband driving a Jag. The wife was wearing Versace and thousands of dollars in jewelry while the husband was dressed in Armani and sporting an $18K Rolex. When they walked into my office, their noses were so far up in the air, if it had been raining, they would have drowned. All show and no substance when you consider they were wearing their net worth. When the second couple, the true millionaires, arrived, they did so in a beat up 15 year old Volkswagen Beetle. He was wearing shorts and a t-shirt while she had on cutoffs and a tank top. They weren't trying to impress me or anyone else, because they didn't need to; they had already made it to their station in life and didn't have to worry about what anyone else thought of them. It sure taught me that although dress and appearance may give others a first and possibly lasting impression, it isn't the true judge of who or what a person really is. This parable isn't necessarily appropriate for this thread, but it makes my point that some people should begin caring less about how someone across the dining room from them looks on their next cruise.

End of rant.