If You Don't Like Being Violated Don't Book A Cruise To Jamaica

[spoiledkraut]

We just got back today from our Conquest cruise and wanted to vent/inform a little bit about something that is happening at the cruise terminal in Montego Bay, namely groping of the male passengers by the local port authorities.

 

I have been on many cruises (both Navy & cruiseline) and have had port calls to more than 40 countries and I have never been treated more disgustingly in a port than this last cruise when we stopped in Montego Bay, Jamaica.

 

After spending the day spending money in this port I (and almost every other male passenger returning to the ship) were separated from the women passengers and forced to go through a "pat down" search by the local authorities where the "frisker" actually grabbed our penises and testicles through our clothes and squeezed them.

 

I should mention that all I (we) were doing was returning to the ship. We had not done anything "wrong". We were not drunk/stoned or even loud.

 

The more I think about this the more flabbergasted I become and the madder I get at Carnival for taking me to a port where I was treated so shabbily. For the life of me I do not understand why Carnival allowed us to be treated that way without some protest on their part but they did not even have anyone present in the terminal to oversee their passengers being fondled.

 

Oh, I should also mention, to add insult to injury, the "searches" were filmed by some British television crew doing a documentary on how Jamaica treats tourists.

 

Can someone tell me why Carnival is still sailing to this port and/or why anyone would book a cruise that includes Jamaica as a port call if the local authorities treat cruise ship passengers like this?

 

We went on the same cruise a week before you guys did and my husband complained about the same issue!

He didn't liked being touched like that either!

[Karried]

It's hard in a different country to be treated disrespectfully any way you look at it. We are somewhat spoiled in the US ( thank God) and aren't used to the local customs.

 

Try being in a rented jeep pulled over on the side of the road by Federales in Puerto Vallarte with semi-automatics trained on your two young sons for 45 minutes, while they try to extort money for supposedly running an imaginary Stop sign. Ugh...

 

I'll take Jamaica over that any day... and I've been there 5 times. Ocho Rios is nice... I haven't been to Montego Bay forever but I do recall it was a little scary.

 

Stay in groups, don't carry cash and for God's sake, don't try to smuggle any local Ganga back to the ship!

[dmhtc1]

I much prefer fixing America's problems, instead of dragging other countries down to our level.

 

 

Your kidding, right?

[chevellet]

Hi Joedog, it was nice to meet you and your wife on our cruise. (We just got home to KS last night.) Thank you for posting your experience. Regardless of my overall opinion of Jamaica, I think that it is important for travelers to hear about this experience. We heard on the shore excursion talk (via cabin TV) that we were subject to being searched. Now I know to take Carnival serious when they say that. I know to take the signs posted at the port seriously, too.

I think it is important for everyone to learn about the possibilities of what might happen to them at any given moment. Then everyone can make a choice about what they want to do about it. We were aware of some of the undesirable things that we could have encountered during our visit to Jamaica through CC. Everyone's experiences were important to us in forming our decision of what to do in Jamaica.

We chose to go to Sunset Beach...but had to stop at Margaritaville first. (We didn't make it to Sunset Beach.) We purchased the $15 supershuttle wristband. I was shocked to see an uniformed security official at every stop. I felt safe at the places that we stopped, only was offered drugs once and a no was all it took.

We didn't experience what you did....but I believe what happened. I am not saying that it is right by any means. But after seeing how some of the Jamaican people live, it is evident to me that Jamaica has a much different take on the concept of "human rights". The security officers probably have no concept of what stepping over the line means. They don't get to experience freedoms like we do. Makes me happy to be home in the USA.

 

We are booked on the Conquest Crazies Cruise in Sept '09. Will we get off of the ship in Jamaica? Probably...but we will be well informed because of posters like you.

[Kurbanfan]

Thatnks for the support. You are correct. I didn't say that. The responding poster was a slight bit dramatic in her response.

Thank you for correcting her. I think we can all see what I mean by my posts in this thread. Click on my name and look at the posts I have made. I must say that I make a whole heck of a lot more sense than most. Maybe it is my background in law enforcement or the fact that I am a straight shooter. You pick.

 

I think her point was how much is too much. How far do we let them go to make it not all right for some of you:confused:

I think she made a excellent point!

[bunting]

Joedog firstly sorry for your experience and would suggest that you write something formal to Carnival and to Jamaica

 

Here´ an email address to the Jamaican Port Authority

 

email: kmclean@portjam.com

 

I am not sure if this person is responsible for security but its a start

 

Here´s a link to the Jamaican Tourist board

 

info@visitjamaica.com

 

and in the USA

 

USA

5201 Blue Lagoon Drive

Suite # 670

Miami, Florida 33126

Tel: (305) 665 0557

Fax: (305) 666 7239

US Toll Free - 1-800-233-4JTB

(1-800-233-4582)

and also this one

http://www.securityadministrators.com.jm/frt_page.php

 

This company claims to provide security services at Montego Bay.

 

.......................................

And if you dont mind maybe I can give some more background and answer some of the comments made by various posters

....................................................................................

Jamaica is a major transhipment route. Drugs do not come off cruise ships into Jamaica, money perhaps but drugs VERY UNLIKELY. (if any likely personal use only). This is the reason little or no searching coming off the vessels although crew landing goods are required to go through Customs and are subject to search. The searching on entry to the port from on shore is for one of two reasons

1. Vessel security to comply with a Code known as the ISPS Code and is regulated by the International Maritime Organization. This is predominantly the xray screening, walkthrough detectors etc. but can include secondary physical searches like in an airport.

2. Narcotics interdiction, Jamaica has extensive agreements with the USA concerning this matter. Predominantly here we are talking transhipment stuff and not really personal use. The searches are a product of these agreements. (The personal user detection is likely a byproduct of the trafficking interdiction).

The cruise lines are also part of an agreement with the US Government dating back to the early 90s known as the Sea Carrier Initiative, this requires them to act in a positive manner to prevent their vessels from being used as methods of entry of illegal narcotics into the USA. Its unlikely that they (the cruise ship) would ask the Jamaicans to stop the searches since it might be considered as interfering with these agreements and might leave them open to be fined by the US authorities if drugs were found onboard. (Again not talking user level here).

Someone mentioned a profile, there is no profile for a drug smuggler. Back in the 90s maybe but as they got caught, the bosses looked for others who break the mold. The level, intensity and frequency of the searches, will be guided by a number of criteria including time of day, size of crowds, and intelligence received from shore about possible smuggling activity etc

The drug of choice for smugglers is generally not marihuana, cost (and profit) versus size of shipment, and large shipments are easily detected, so nowadays the smugglers carry predominantly cocaine.

The smugglers also know that searching is an unpleasant experience for the innocent and the searchers, so they are likely to use the more personal areas of the body to hide the drugs. This is to not only to increase their odds of success but also generate ill will against the process....the best solution of course is the K9 but I suspect that the Jamaican Authorities are employing them at port cargo terminals and cargo areas at the airports, trying to prevent the stuff coming into their country in the first place. And to have a constant full day coverage of a terminal takes more than one asset, since they to need a rest.....

The fact that the searches take place I dont think that will be changed but perhaps there are other working options including awareness of the process prior to entering the port, proper supervision and training to ensure female security personnel do not search males and that male security personnel only search males and spot checks of the process by Port Authority management and the cruise lines.

The easiest option and,IMHO, the BEST OPTION would be for the cruise line to hire their own dog for the gangways, I believe RCI has a K9 detection group that visits vessels at random...., then Carnival could enter an agreement with the Jamaican Port Authority that the ISPS Code security checks would remain with the port and the anit narcotic screening with the cruise line monitored at the gangway by police....

Sorry for such a long post and hope it helps....Good luck with any correspondence

[Kurbanfan]

As it is, there is almost no random searching of passengers returning to the United States so it is good that someone is at least trying.

 

 

They don't search the passengers but all of your checked luggage is checked by drug dogs. Unless you look suspicious they will not check your body.

They are not interested in a couple of joints. Not sure about all states but here in Calif. if you are holding a ounce it is just a ticket. They are looking for enough to sell.

They don't bust the locals in Jamaica because they can't bail themselves out. They would basically rot in jail.

Anyone is naive to think this is anything else but a money making scheme for their government.

[lovesublime]

I read John Heald's blog. He actually witnessed a male pax have his underwear pulled open so the "security personel" could peer inside. IMO, this is sexual abuse and is completely unacceptable.

[Thirsty Cruiser]

...and my husband complained about the same issue!

He didn't liked being touched like that either!

 

Hmm, DW was saying the same thing, and we weren't in Jamaica. :eek:

[halos]

Not disputing that fact one bit. I never said the OP shouldn't have posted his experience - that's what this forum is all about. What I did say was many many of the posts in this thread have been REALLY dramatic...way overboard IMO. (I'll have to go back and find specific ones)

 

Some people like Jamaica, some don't. Some will continue to go there even after reading this and some won't. I loved Jamaica and want to go there again and yes, while there we were verbally accosted and approached MANY times to buy drugs but that's not going to stop me, not even the groping of the family jewels.

 

It's all good. I was agreeing with you...the other part of my post was just meant for the general population. :p

 

We all know you enjoy being groped Liv. It's part of your charm. ;)

[grammacassi]

So Sorry That This happened to you!!:( In May of last year, my family, DH DDs 23,16,15, DS 12 all sailed on the Conquest for our first family cruise. (first cruise period) The service on the ship could not have been better and the ship was wonderful! I had read on these boards the warnings about Jamaica and took all i learned to heart. We booked a private tour with Nativeways to a waterfall climb, a local restaurant for lunch, and then some shopping in a local market. ALL was so great until we hit the local market. The shopkeepers were so pushy that finally I had had enough. I called my family together, against the protestations of the shopkeepers and we left to head back to the ship. When we boarded, there were locals saying good bye and the band that was playing when we got there was just finishing up. When we got to the port in the morning, we disembarked, listened to the band as we were in line, our guied/driver Clive, found us and off we were for the day.

While this port was beautiful, I have seen enough. My daughert on the otherhand (DD 15) would like to go back there for a week's stay.

So sorry this happened to you and thank the Godess, we experienced noe of this.

Don't give up on Carnival nor the Conquest.:)

 

grammacassi

[grammacassi]

So Sorry That This happened to you!!:( In May of last year, my family, DH DDs 23,16,15, DS 12 all sailed on the Conquest for our first family cruise. (first cruise period) The service on the ship could not have been better and the ship was wonderful! I had read on these boards the warnings about Jamaica and took all i learned to heart. We booked a private tour with Nativeways to a waterfall climb, a local restaurant for lunch, and then some shopping in a local market. ALL was so great until we hit the local market. The shopkeepers were so pushy that finally I had had enough. I called my family together, against the protestations of the shopkeepers and we left to head back to the ship. When we boarded, there were locals saying good bye and the band that was playing when we got there was just finishing up. When we got to the port in the morning, we disembarked, listened to the band as we were in line, our guied/driver Clive, found us and off we were for the day.

While this port was beautiful, I have seen enough. My daughter on the otherhand (DD 15) would like to go back there for a week's stay.

So sorry this happened to you and thank the Godess, we experienced none of this.

Don't give up on Carnival nor the Conquest.:)

 

grammacassi

[grammacassi]

Sixgun,

 

Glad you made it through "untouched".

 

As for Carnival's role, I have a different opinion. A long time ago when I was fresh in the Navy I was walking down the passageway on the ship and stepped over a piece of trash on the deck. A senior person behind me stopped me and had me pick up the trash and told me that by stepping over the trash I was setting the cleanliness standard for the ship at a lower level.

 

That is what I feel Carnival is doing. By allowing this kind of treatment of it's passengers it is setting the standard of acceptable treatment of it's passengers at a level lower than I think is right. Sure, Carnival is not the Jamaican goverment but they did take us all there on their ship. If you were on my ship and I saw you treated badly and I did nothing about it would you think it was okay. If it continued to happen wouldnt you wonder why I kept taking you there?

 

You are right on with this attitude! While I read this after my original post which said Don't give up on Carnival, which I still suggest, I do agree that it is a passive form of condoning their behavior when we still stop there, support their tourism, spend $$$ etc without addressing this type of issue. Carnival may not be initially responsible, but they can take a stand.

 

grammacassi

[gazingm42]

We had the same treatment last time. The only reason I did not get the "search" is I was holding my son, as he got heat stroke. He was out like a light and they allow me to not be search. But pax onboard were talking about the

search.

 

If I on a trip again that stops there I will not get off the ship.

 

The people are rude in addition to the drugs and crime issue.

[trarecar]

I read John Heald's blog. He actually witnessed a male pax have his underwear pulled open so the "security personel" could peer inside. IMO, this is sexual abuse and is completely unacceptable.

 

Wow. :eek:

 

My husband had his junk squeezed in Sept., and some friends went in June of last year - same thing to them, so obviously it's been happening a while.

 

I see good points on both sides of this argument, but the fact that the men seem to be singled out makes it seem more like this woman is getting her jollies off. Might not be true, but if she is taking the time to be so thorough with the majority of men, then why aren't all the other port security personnel doing the same?

 

On a lighter note, she has to have some kind of world record. Seriously, probably in the thousands.

[Safetyal]

Wow. :eek: On a lighter note, she has to have some kind of world record. Seriously, probably in the thousands.

 

I guess one could say that 'she has that record firmly in hand.' :rolleyes: :p :D

[ShedQueen77]

My thoughts exactly. Do you visit NYC (or LA or Sioux City, SD) for 5 hours and get a good vibe on the entire USA? If you've had a bad experience you are more than welcome to express your personal feelings, but again, to bash the entire nation and every Jamaican for their rudeness, disrespect, etc., is absurd....isn't that called stereotyping?

 

As to why the men are searched more thoroughly....perhaps it has to do with the fact that normally women are not offered drugs...in all my visits I've never been asked if I wanted drugs but my husband has...I believe that may be a cultural thing.

 

Also, I get "fondled" or squeezed twice each year by random doctors as part of medical exams, so I guess I just wouldn't see it as much of a violation as some obviously do. Again, not to make light of the situation, but I wouldn't flame a country over it.

 

Apples and oranges.

[afcgirl]

Montego Bay was horrible when we cruised there on the Conquest in 2003. We were asked to buy pot numerous times (and yes we look very straightlaced, my DH and I are both attorneys). This is not what bothered us though, it was the intimidation and rude behavior directed at us. Why should we be subjected to that?

 

And for those saying that Jamaica is just like any other caribbean island, why is it that all of us posters love cruising and love visiting caribbean islands EXCEPT for Jamaica? Obviously there is something different about it.

 

And to blame it on poverty I think is an insult to 99% of the poor people who act decent to others. Decency and respect is universal.

[fllady61]

Do you all report this action to Carnival? I don't mean the pursers desk, I mean go on and complain to Carnival on line? I would if it happen to my husband. I would be furious. I would find the captain, tell him, then start writing my letter to carnival and when I got home, or go to the internet cafe, and do it right then and there.

 

But thanks for the head up. I know not to plan Jamacia as a trip.

 

And my DH is afraid to go to P.R. Would rather go there then to Jamacia now.

 

Oh well, I would not let it get by without telling Carnival about it. It seems to me like a lot of you have had that experience. If that is the case, Carnival needs to know so they can start checking into it.

 

Unless a lot of people make complaints, CCL will not change ports.

[MitchNY]

My family were in Jamaica last week on the Freedom in Ocho Rios. We were told by the CD that all passengers would be searched. When I returned to the ship they were searching all bags, I did not have a bag so they let me walk right through security without searching me.

[sixgun8]

i have seen numerous posts saying it was a woman searching the males. In my instance there was a male doing any searching in the male line.

 

I dunno, I guess in the interests of fighting the war against drugs and smuggling, I don't have a problem with this. Just me maybe, I guess so.

 

If you don't like pushy people, and I don't either, then book an excursion that avoids the shopping districts. We plan on that next time. We wont do the walk around town or shuttle bus thing again. Just too much interaction for us.

[trarecar]

Maybe it was the woman's day off. LOL

 

I hope she never gets carpal tunnel syndrome. That would be a tough one to explain.

[Safetyal]

Maybe it was the woman's day off. LOL

 

I hope she never gets carpal tunnel syndrome. That would be a tough one to explain.

 

She has to take a day off at some time.

 

Otherwise she may go blind. :rolleyes:

[newt98]

I think her point was how much is too much. How far do we let them go to make it not all right for some of you:confused:

I think she made a excellent point!

 

 

 

Kurban, i'm glad you understand where i'm coming from, but why in the heck do i keep being called a "her"? maybe you got bad information from the security guy in jamaica!:eek:

[hogtyde88]

Hmm, DW was saying the same thing, and we weren't in Jamaica. :eek:

 

Just last night?? :D (j/k):p

 

 

We all know you enjoy being groped Liv. It's part of your charm. ;)

 

:eek: Snake Charmer!?! :cool: