Poll: Roatan Zip-Line Tragedy

[eblebl]

eblebl

I'm not sure you completely understand the 2 cable system. It is not 2 cables that you hang on. You hang on the main cable and the 2nd cable is parallel to, and 1-2 feet away from the cable on which you are riding. There is a safety strap that is connected to a d-ring on the back of your harness and the safety strap clips to the 2nd cable and just slides along loosely. If the cable you are riding on fails for some reason the 2nd parallel will hopefully catch you and prevent you from hitting the ground.

 

 

Yes, I am aware of this practice. It is one of three methods, at least, that are in practice. While there is a second cable, it would be shocked loaded greatly by having all your weight load it suddenly in the event of a primary wire rope failure, plus, hooking into the rear of the harness is inappropriate for this application. Many of the manufactures do not endorse the single attachment to the rear of the harness. Further, in the US, ANSI does not allow for such a connection. And, I could go on.

 

As I mentioned before, I am unaware of the the details for the particular situation and don't want to make any harsh judgements.

 

Steve

[Host Kat]

Please take a look at the Cruise Critic feature article by Michael Potter, Assistant Editor. It refers to the above poll and some of your remarks appear.

 

What to Expect: Zip-line Safety

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/features/articles.cfm?ID=660

 

Thanks to all for your participation!

Kat

[tommy53562]

I too was injured on one of these zip line tours. And I consider myself LUCKY. Three inches lower and my lower spine would have been smashed instead of my upper calf muscles. It appears that the cruise lines process for picking shore excursions involves an initial inspection by the "shore excursion team" and little followup after to see if the excursion is porperly run.

 

Below is part of the text that i sent to Celebrity and Royal Carribean Cruise lines....

"Dear Shore Excursions Team,

 

Last week my wife and I sailed on the Millenium out of Ft. Lauderdale. We are experienced cruisers with over 30 under our belt. This was our third Celebrity cruise in the last year and a half. On Tuesday March 18th I was injured on a shore excursion, “The original jungle canopy tour” in San Juan PR. Below is the report I filed with Sorin, the shore excursion manager.

 

 

This shore excursion involves a series of jungle platforms linked together by ropes. The guests are fitted with harness seats and fly downward, platform-to-platform from suspended ropes. Weight limitation on this ride was 275 pounds. I am 6'5", 245 pounds and in good physical condition. I am also a certified scuba diver and skydiver.

 

On our second to the last sling, I followed the guide's instructions to the letter; “both hands on the blue strap, no braking or you won't make it across, and step off the very end of the platform.” I did all of this.......and smashed into a stump ON THE GROUND knocking the breath out of me. I then continued travelling, spinning out of control until I smashed backwards into the end of the landing platform. The rope was so slack that I actually hit the end of the platform instead of landing on top as it was designed. I was in a sitting position and smashed my upper calf muscles coming to a complete stop. If I had been three inches lower, I would have smashed the lower vertebrae in my back. At the conclusion of the tour, I spoke to the Operator, who is said to be one of the owners, and told him what happened. His only response was, "well, sometimes when it rains, the ropes stretch." Despite the fact there were another two groups coming behind us, he didn’t even ask which sling platform needed to be adjusted so this didn’t happen to somebody else.

 

I was not the only one injured in our group. In addition, another member of our group, an older female, was left hanging for 10 minutes until an additional guide came to help unhook her. This incident limited my physical activity immediately. On only the second day of a seven day cruise, I have been icing and hobbling around. It has not been a pleasant experience. As a three time Celebrity cruiser, I realize we signed liability waivers for shore tours. This tour, however, the Original Canopy Tour, is sloppy and poorly run. In my opinion, the operators have been negligent. From my firsthand observation, you will have other cruisers injured on this tour. It's dangerous, sorely lacking in safety features and has no place on the Celebrity Cruise excursion list. This injury ruined my cruise; please don't let this happen to another guest."

 

HEY EVERYBODY,stay away from the "Original Canopy Tour". It is my understanding that they operate at least three of these zip line tours. The tour is poorly run and dangerous with an utter disregard for passenger safety.

[GMCOLT]

I work in Safety for a steel erector. We use assorted rope and cable ( Known as wire rope) for fall protection. The loads that these devices are subjected to by moving humans or falls are huge. I just saw a training piece today that showed a load sawying or bouncing up and down can triple or quadruple the weight placed on the system.

 

We use 3/8" wire rope that is rated for 12,000lbs. Therefore it is no surprise that the People in Roatan say their cable was rated for 3 tons.

 

It sounds like your article describe operators who follow sound fall protection practices ( using a second tie off) and maintenance. I was at a Zip line tour place in Costa Rica. I did not do the tour ( was not running that day). I looked at their gear and it looked welll cared for and made by some of the same companies that I am familiar with.

The best thing is to wait for the investigation as to the cause because who knows for sure what caused the failure. It could be installation, shock loading, wear, material failure or missuse that occured unknown to the operators to name a few.

[briangl]

I have no problem with people making the best choices for them. Just don't tell me what my choice should be ... and that's exactly what happens when newspapers sensationalize these stories. Government officials move in and before you know it, the activity is no longer available to me, even though I was willing to take the risk.

At least in the US lawsuits and the ability to get insurance have more to do with restrictions on activities than government officials.

 

I see what you are saying about driving, and maybe that's how it would be for the "average" person. But for me, I don't drive ... because I choose not to for my own reasons ... and that fact really doesn't impact my quality of life much. We have an excellent public transportation system here in Philly.

I agree. The idea that you have to drive in the US to have a good quality of life is bogus. You can live in most big cities in the US and not have a car or drive very little. This greatly reduces your risk of dying in an auto accident. In Seattle there is no need for a car to get most places. Driving is far more risky than most people realize.

[Cuizer2]

You can live in most big cities in the US and not have a car or drive very little. This greatly reduces your risk of dying in an auto accident.

It may be true that if you don't drive (and living in Los Angeles we don't have that choice) you reduce your chance of dying in an auto accident. However, you increase your chance of dying in a pedestrian accident, or a bus accident, or a boat accident, or a train accident, or a plane accident, or a bike accident ...

[briangl]

It may be true that if you don't drive (and living in Los Angeles we don't have that choice) you reduce your chance of dying in an auto accident. However, you increase your chance of dying in a pedestrian accident, or a bus accident, or a boat accident, or a train accident, or a plane accident, or a bike accident ...

 

How do you increase your odds of dying in a boat or plane accident by not driving? Also when was the last time someone in LA died taking a transit bus or train?

 

You are correct that some trips are easiest by car in LA.

 

The biggest mystery to me is why as a society we freely accept thousands of unnecessary preventable deaths in auto accidents.

[Cuizer2]

How do you increase your odds of dying in a boat or plane accident by not driving? Also when was the last time someone in LA died taking a transit bus or train?

 

You are correct that some trips are easiest by car in LA.

 

The biggest mystery to me is why as a society we freely accept thousands of unnecessary preventable deaths in auto accidents.

Assume that during the course of a year you take 700 car trips and 300 other trips, including one cruise. Assuming an equal chance of dying on any single trip (I realize that there isn't - but it doesn't matter for this simple example) and your chance of dying on a boat/ship is 1 in 1000. Now you don't take the car anymore, than your chance of dying in the boat is 1 in 300.

 

However, that is not what I meant. The point is, if you have to travel, you have to travel. So if you are not driving over a bridge, then perhaps you are taking a ferry (boat). If you are not driving downtown perhaps you are taking a subway (train). The fact is, unless you stop moving, then if you are decreasing your travel by car, you must be increasing your travel some other way. Even if you chance of dying is 1 out of 1 mil bus trips, if you only took 20 bus trips per year, then your chance of dying in a bus was 20 out of 1 mil or 1 in 50,000. If you no longer use your car, so you now take 120 bus trips per year, then your chance of dying in a bus is now 120 out of 1 mil or 6 in 50,000.

 

This was the wrong time to ask about dying on a train in Los Angeles. Someone is currently facing murder charges for killing eleven people in a train accident. Here is a link ...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glendale_train_crash

 

Here is a link about two more people killed by a train in Los Angeles ...

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/01/national/main3441224.shtml

 

How bad is it? Here is a link to a law firm that specializes in handling train accident victims ...

 

http://www.robertreeveslaw.com/PracticeAreas/Train-Accidents.asp

 

Don't like that firm? Then call this one ...

 

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=train+accident+death+los+angeles&btnG=Search

 

Now, if two (or more) firms can make a living from train accident victims, how many train deaths do YOU think there are? I live here, death by train is just not that unusual.

[lnnannbnn]

April 18, 2007, I thoroughly enjoyed my 50th birthday morning spent Canopy zipping in Ocho Rios Jamaica. I felt completely safe, the harness and helmet were placed on us by the staff we were given a pair of gloves to wear. We were instructed NOT to touch a bit of the equipment they would take care of everything. We were instructed on what to do in every situation including not reaching the next platform. The staff repeatedly latched and unlatched us. We were never atop a platform without an attending staff-member. The amount of cable wrapped around the trees was re-assuring as was the safety cable. It truly was an unforgettable 50th birthday celebration of life.

 

So......hubby and I decided to zipline, March 8th,2008, in St. Marteen. When we arrived, we were told to put on our harnesses and told to pick one glove for our "Brake." No helmets were provided. Although a staff member did check each harness. In retrospect we probably should have not done the course, but we did. There was a very brief lesson given by one staff member then we were told to follow a path to our first platform and zip. There was no one there to assist us. I counted a total of 3 platforms out of 30 that were staffed. Each cable was wrapped around the tree one time only, there was no safety cable. When we were done, we both agreed it was not a very safe course to do and to fully research any further ziplines we plan to do.

 

Please take care, do research before you go on any ziplines and enjoy them, it has been one of the best experiences of my life .

[cruisersnorkler]

We zip lined in Costa Rica. We wore safety equipment. They showed us not only were we hooked to one line but we were also hooked to a second line. They told us that if there was a accident the second line would take over so we would not fall. They also had someone at the platform releasing us and helping to catch us.

[nancy315]

I zip lined in Puerta Vallarta and felt safe on the line. However, I didn't feel so safe on the small platforms that we had to stand on in between the zip lines. The platforms were narrow and didn't seem to be too strong.

 

We were hooked onto a bungee cord type of line around the tree while standing on the platform and I can clearly recall thinking if I slipped off the platform, that line was not going to hold me. It was actually a relief zip lining in between the trees rather than standing on the tree platform.

 

That said, it was a once in a lifetime opportunity and I can say I did it.

 

Zip lining isn't the only excursions offered by the cruise lines that can be dangerous. I was more frightened on a 4 wheel drive excursion in Barbados than I was zip lining.

 

What happened to the woman was tragic, but there are many things we do every day are far more dangerous than zip lining.

 

My theory is when your time is up, your time is up and there is nothing you can do to prevent it.

[robertscj]

I did not read through the entire thread but I wanted to mention that Gumbalimba's canopy, the one that had the accident, now has a dual pulley 2 line system with a safety line. So a total of 3 lines. It. as of today, has not been re-opened to the cruise lines but if you are staying for the week, you can do it.

[taszmom]

I just did the zip lining tour with South Shore Canopy last week. I had not heard of the accident at Gumbalima prior otherwise I might have been apprehensive doing it. I did feel safe with the dual line and the safety line attached. The guides we had were very good. In our group there was a family including a 2 yr old. The 2 yr old went down attached to a guide at all times. The guides made a point to stop at this one line, explain that it was the longest, fastest and that anyone who didn't feel comfortable doing it can go with a guide. I did have my 9 yr old daughter go down with a guide on that one. It was thrilling and our family's favorite excursion of the cruise. I would recommend this excursion and using South Shore (booked through http://www.shoretrips.com).

[Miss Vickie]

My son and I did the challenge course on St. Martin about 3 years ago. He's actually been in charge of challenge courses and climbing walls and is an experienced in-door rock climber. I'm a reasonably fit 50+ woman, who, at under 5' tall, had to stretch some on a couple of the course elements. At no time, however, did I feel unsafe. We both had a blast, and I'd do it again in a minute.

[jroyalfuture]

I'm not advocating for or against zip lining, but I did want to give some advice to 1st timers, especially if the glove system is used for breaking. My husband, age 70, and myself, age 62, did the zip-lining tour last November in Roatan (the Gumblima tour). My husband loved it and can't wait to go ziplining again. I guess I'm glad I did it, but once is enough.

 

I was injured on this zipline & still have the scats to prove it. The problem arose out of confusion on how to break. We were told pull down on the line back your backhand. So on the third section, I did that and the glove was immediately torn off my hand. Now I had no way to break & I started spinning. I was going too fast & this is the steepest part of the course. So I came crashing into the next platform. The guides grabbed me but were unable to keep me from crashing into the tree. The tree was well padded, but the lower section of my leg still managed to smash up against the bark.

 

So they sent another guise (a so called taxi driver) down to go the rest of the way with me. He must have been all of 12 years old. Anyway, I survived and did get down, but I was too scared to see the view or enjoy the experience.

 

If I'd realized that what was meant was to use friction of the glove on the line to slow down, and not to grab the line. I think I would have been fine. They guides were very careful when hooking up the lines, and they did use the safety clip to hook up to the second line every time. I might even try ziplining again, but perhaps only if a different breaking system were used. I was told that in some places there is a board that is hooked onto the lines & runs along with you. If you pull in the board you can break. Some lines are no so steep & breaking really isn't an issue.

 

In anycase, happy ziplining. Just please be careful.

[Cuizer2]

Here are some pictures of the zip line in Labadee ...

 

 

 

 

This is the landing area ...

 

[Browezilla]

It would be interesting to see the safety statistics on Ziplines. They are relatively unregulated. My son was at a church retreat in the US when a child fell to his death from a harness malfunction. It definitely makes me more cautious and aware of whatever equipment I use (e.g. I now snorkel with a blowup vest after hearing about a snorkeler in Cozumel drifting way out to sea)

[3334boat]

I cant believe that such a big thing was made out of this. Is it because there is such a huge amount of people crusing these days without out incident that when something does happen it is so widly speculated about.

It was a freak accident like what happens at amusement parks periodically.

A horrible accident but a accident none the less.

Now driving a car on any freeway nowadays is what I call taking your life in your hands!

Crusing is the safest and easiest way to travel...dont blame it on Norweigan or the excertion company.

[Cuizer2]

I cant believe that such a big thing was made out of this.

 

Someone died. How much bigger do you think it could get?

 

It was a freak accident like what happens at amusement parks periodically.

A horrible accident but a accident none the less.

Now driving a car on any freeway nowadays is what I call taking your life in your hands!

Crusing is the safest and easiest way to travel...dont blame it on Norweigan or the excertion company.

 

The excursion company is responsible for the quality of its cables and ropes. If the rope broke, then the excursion company is responsible.

[spiritkat090909]

Yes, I'd zipline again. I'm not an adrenaline junky, I just thought the experience was fun.

 

I have been on BOTH the Gumbalimba park zipline AND the one in Belize that starts/ends in a cave. The experiences were actually a bit different. The Belize experience had a FOUR point harness & was physically easier for the beginner. The Roatan trip was more challenging...I had to hold myself up with my abdominal muscles due to the waist harness...it wasn't as easy. I didn't think at any time that it was less safe, but I also thought that if I had been a bit overweight, I probably wouldn't have enjoyed the experience as much.

 

I can't even imagine how the accident occurred. The contributing factor that I can see (from my limited experiences) is the TANDEM ride, from what I read if you change that one factor, the accident may not have occurred. I saw that on my Roatan trip...there was a lady that was terrified & the guide helped her down. IF one is that frightened, perhaps it isn't the best thing to try? There could be a Gut Instinct/Angelic Whispering REASON for it. Listen to your own feelings & do what you personally feel is right for YOU, in all things.

[ohiocruisemom56]

My family did the zipline excursion through RCI in Belize. They had a good time...said it was VERY exciting. Then my daughter got a summer camp job this past year, and got certified to run their high ropes course. Now she tells us all the things that they did wrong in Belize. She said she'd go again....but she'd personally check everything before going up on the course. And insist that they follow the standards that she knows while she was there.

[tahoemc]

My two cents worth....

 

We did the zip line through RCI Voyager of the Seas near Montego Bay last March - I believe it is Chukka Tours that provided the experience. Felt safe the entire time. One difference I noticed with this operator compared to some of the others is you are attached to two cables at the same time which appears to create safety redundancy. That is your harness is attached to a set of pulleys on each line. I don't know if this system distributes the load equally to each of the two cables, or if one cable will support the weight of the rider should the other fail, but knowing you are supported by two cables did give me a higher level sense of security.

 

Again, my two cents worth.

[fllady]

No thank you, I can think of many other ways to get a thrill. I am sure if it was one of your family who died you wouldn't be so casual about it.

[wingfanz]

My wife, son, daughter and I as well as many friends just returned from a seven day cruise to Mexico out of L.A. This was our third trip to that area. Ten of us went on the outdoor adventure with Vallarta Adventures booked through RCI . This was my wife and I's second zip-line trip with this same company. We had great guides who were very safety conscious and always provided 100% tie off, meaning you were always tied off to two points prior to unhooking from another at your landing or take off point. The guides checked and double checked the harnesses we had on, the pulleys etc. We all had a great time and would have done it again the next day if we could have. I believe this was a terrible incident that possibly could have been prevented however, it could happen anywhere at any time. You sign waivers at any trip like this that states the possbility of injury and / or death. No different from the one you would sign in the United States. You get as much information as possible and make an informed decision based on that. Hopefully the cruise line you travel on checks these places out periodically to ensure proper safety techniques are being utilized.

 

Wingfanz

[USFcrew]

I think that the zip-line business has been around for about 10 years on Roatan and I think after the only tragedy that has occured in 10 years it is unfair to tarnish the zip-line business as it's such a great tour and there are many responsible zip-line tours operating on Roatan and more areas around the Caribbean. Tragedy hurts but I think Roatan and all zip-line businesses will make a great rebound from the bad press of this tragedy.