Inappropriate Behavior from Gem Crew Member

[BeachBumMama]

[quote name='falken']Ah. Guilty until proven innocent, got to love it!
If you gathered up all the children and kept them in sterile protected enviroments, alone and secured agianst human interaction until they were 21 you would probably save hundreds of thousands of them from predators, accidents, diseases, heartbreaks, bad experiences, etc. Think of all the good that could do?[/quote]
Hopefully in a childs normal course of life they have enough family and friends for human interaction. As it should be. My post was in regards to a situation with a bus driver, and could be taken to others such as teachers, preists, troop leaders, etc. Where is the line to be drawn to tell a child 'Well, it's okay if nice Ms. CruisnGram the bus driver gives you a hug, but if your middle aged male bus driver you have in the afternoon gives you a hug it's wrong.'

At certain ages they don't know between the 'good' person and the 'bad' person. So should they be overly guarded and protected? Dang straight. Again there's family and friends to dote out human interaction, why would strangers want to go around hugging children anyway?:rolleyes: Once they get to a certain age they can distinguish better, but until then...

Again, just wanted a disclaimer this has nothing to do with OP's post. :) Back to our regularly scheduled program.

[hamrag]

[COLOR="Red"][/COLOR][quote name='Sick of Snow']I want to thank you all for the responses. I have emailed my letter to both Prem and Colin. Thanks for the addresses.

The first time this guy made a comment, I do not remember the exact words, but I remember thinking that it was a very ballsy/rude/suggestive thing to say to a child and it made me uncomfortable enough to tell my mother in law that I didn't want my daughter in there without one of us.

While we were at this little shop set up just before the tenders my daughter had her back to him, he put his right arm around the front of her, grabbed her left wrist, and pulled her into him while saying she was staying there with him. I do not care if he was joking around or not that was inappropriate to me.

What he did made her very uncomfortable, it made my mother in law uncomfortable watching the interaction and it made me uncomfortable hearing it.

QUOTE]

Much has been said of the "guy" and the 13 year old girl. Given the above quotes extracted from the account is anyone else wondering why, considering the earlier comment from the guy in the shop, if the incident was as serious as is being made out, the "other adult" in the party who may or may not be the mother-in-law, did not explain more fully to "Sick of Snow" what had taken place. Any responsible family would have dealt with this "incident" on Board!!

Maybe the post-holiday blues have set in, and exaggeration too.

[bobnatt]

I can't believe all the responses that appear to be defending the crew member and implying the child or the parent was wrong. Go with your gut and write a letter to the CEO of NCL. I would think it is better to err on the side of caution than assume that it was an innocent interaction.

[ZoneHPH]

...IT'S BEEN A BUSY MORNING HERE AT WORK. BUT ZONEHPH TO THE RESCUE!!!

[IMG]http://www.lidreamboats.org/images/clip-art-fireservice-fire-extinguisher.gif[/IMG]

our society is certainly more educated about crime in general...and in this case...harrassment/sexual assault. but it is this SAME knowledge that has crippled us. it's a self fulfilling prophesy:

- we are distant to other kids to avoid "inappropriate contact"
- kids still need love and attention (and not just from their parents)
- if we don't teach our children these traits, that only humans experience, we are not teaching them to "care for their fellow human being"...and round and round it goes.
- we will eventually create a society of no emotion...or in the broader definition...no love.

while it's sad that predators have learned to take advantage of naive children (and even some adults)...that should NOT stop us from showing affection or just a small gesture of contact (hand shake, pat on the back...etc) to our fellow human.

personally i think that's what's missing. many people these days are busy keeping that watchful eye out and forgetting that there are actually good hearted people out there. i'd love to hear the OP's daughter's perspective. the truth is somewhere in the middle.

[Sick of Snow]

I have read all the posts here and again I thank you all for your insights. WinterSky you are correct in your assessment of the situation so I am not going to rehash it again.

I heard back from Perm today who has the letter and stated that he will get back with me at his earliest opportunity. I'm happy that the letter was acknowledged this time.

It remains my solid opinion that this crew member crossed a line into inappropriate with my daughter. As a parent I am upset with this. I would not accept that behavior from anyone else in any other situation. I do NOT believe that I should accept this from a crew member simply because they are from another country, live on a ship, may or may not be missing their own children/siblings etc.

I would be willing to bet that someone reading this post is going to be on the Gem in the near future and will remember what I have written about. If they have a teenager female with them, they may put a bit more attention to the interaction that takes place. Then they can make up their own minds how they want to handle their own children. It is that simple. My daughter was made uncomfortable by the way he touched her. In my world, that is not right. Obviously it sounds like some people here are OK with a male that they don't know pulling their daughters into them in such a manner. I am not. I wrote this to let other parents who are like minded to me know of what happened so they could avoid this situation with their own children.

[suzyed]

[quote name='ZoneHPH']...IT'S BEEN A BUSY MORNING HERE AT WORK. BUT ZONEHPH TO THE RESCUE!!!

[IMG]http://www.lidreamboats.org/images/clip-art-fireservice-fire-extinguisher.gif[/IMG]

our society is certainly more educated about crime in general...and in this case...harrassment/sexual assault. but it is this SAME knowledge that has crippled us. it's a self fulfilling prophesy:

- we are distant to other kids to avoid "inappropriate contact"
- kids still need love and attention (and not just from their parents)
- if we don't teach our children these traits, that only humans experience, we are not teaching them to "care for their fellow human being"...and round and round it goes.
- we will eventually create a society of no emotion...or in the broader definition...no love.

while it's sad that predators have learned to take advantage of naive children (and even some adults)...that should NOT stop us from showing affection or just a small gesture of contact (hand shake, pat on the back...etc) to our fellow human.

personally i think that's what's missing. many people these days are busy keeping that watchful eye out and forgetting that there are actually good hearted people out there. i'd love to hear the OP's daughter's perspective. the truth is somewhere in the middle.[/quote]
All you say is true...to a point..."kids still need love and attention (and not just from their parents)". But they DON'T NEED attention from a stranger in a store! You are right, "small gestures of contact (hand shake, pat on the back...etc)" have value, but what this young man did was not a small gesture of contact.
I am a nurse, so I am well aware of the value of touch, and the power of the "healing touch"...but those types of gestures should in no way be miscontrued or confused with the type of "touch" in this situation.
The Mom is correct in her feeling.

[suzyed]

[quote name='hamrag'][quote name='Sick of Snow']I want to thank you all for the responses. I have emailed my letter to both Prem and Colin. Thanks for the addresses.


You are absolutely correct in your feelings and in your actions. Stick to your guns. Our children need to know that we are absolutely on their side and we will do all in our power to protect them and foster a feeling of safety, security and absolute comfort.

Mama Bears Unite! We will protect our cubs at all cost!!

[ZoneHPH]

[quote name='suzyed']All you say is true...to a point..."kids still need love and attention (and not just from their parents)". But they DON'T NEED attention from a stranger in a store! You are right, "small gestures of contact (hand shake, pat on the back...etc)" have value, but what this young man did was not a small gesture of contact.
I am a nurse, so I am well aware of the value of touch, and the power of the "healing touch"...but those types of gestures should in no way be miscontrued or confused with the type of "touch" in this situation.
The Mom is correct in her feeling.[/QUOTE]

i don't think anyone of us can say that any person involved in this situation is right or wrong. that's why i said i'd love to hear the OP's daughter's perspective...and while we're at it...i'd like to hear from the "offender". guilty until proven innocent let's not forget that. or we'll have the salem witch hunts all over again.

and my mom and every other woman in my family is an RN...so know all about their work and how they work. the sad thing is...any whistleblower can start a conflict with a simple "i was touched inappropriately".

i hope for the sake of the OP...she's correct...but then again i wasn't there. i think this is a better picture of extinguishing the flames...

[img]http://www.firesafetraining.com/images/FireExtinguisher1.png[/img]

[BeachBumMama]

[quote name='Sick of Snow']My daughter was made uncomfortable by the way he touched her. In my world, that is not right. Obviously it sounds like some people here are OK with a male that they don't know pulling their daughters into them in such a manner. I am not. I wrote this to let other parents who are like minded to me know of what happened so they could avoid this situation with their own children.[/quote]
I'm just curious if the people that have posted and made it seem as if it was OK with a male they don't know pulling their daughters into them in such a manner, would have a different view if it were say a middle aged male stranger?:rolleyes: And if they felt it would be different, why? Inappropriate touching is inappropriate touching, regardless.

I'm glad you got a response and maybe a refresher course in conduct is in this guy's future. Ship employees and crew are friendly people and we all appreciate it, but people can be wonderfully friendly without contact to make one uncomfortable.

[BeachBumMama]

[quote name='ZoneHPH']guilty until proven innocent let's not forget that. or we'll have the salem witch hunts all over again.[/quote]
But also let's not forget that the OP isn't accusing the guy of anything other than touching her daughter in a manner that made her uncomfortable. To my recollection of all the posts she isn't flying off the handle with all kinds of accusations of anything other than that. And I don't see why anyone has a reason to doubt her word.

And as I posted above, I wonder how people would feel if it were a 25-30 year old man? Would the views change?:confused:

[cruitenn]

[quote name='Sick of Snow']I have read all the posts here and again I thank you all for your insights. WinterSky you are correct in your assessment of the situation so I am not going to rehash it again.

I heard back from Perm today who has the letter and stated that he will get back with me at his earliest opportunity. I'm happy that the letter was acknowledged this time.

It remains my solid opinion that this crew member crossed a line into inappropriate with my daughter. As a parent I am upset with this. I would not accept that behavior from anyone else in any other situation. I do NOT believe that I should accept this from a crew member simply because they are from another country, live on a ship, may or may not be missing their own children/siblings etc.

I would be willing to bet that someone reading this post is going to be on the Gem in the near future and will remember what I have written about. If they have a teenager female with them, they may put a bit more attention to the interaction that takes place. Then they can make up their own minds how they want to handle their own children. It is that simple. My daughter was made uncomfortable by the way he touched her. In my world, that is not right. Obviously it sounds like some people here are OK with a male that they don't know pulling their daughters into them in such a manner. I am not. I wrote this to let other parents who are like minded to me know of what happened so they could avoid this situation with their own children.[/quote]

I know I will be flamed for this, hopefully not too much. These are just my thoughts on the matter and I felt I should share. I know a few posters already asked and I still do not really understand why the OP waited until she got home had the topic discussed on CC before she contacted NCL or Prem.

It has been noted on many reviews and postings that Prem (HD) would like to hear of any comments, questions, complaints on the ship, I know he distributes his business cards at the CC's M&G.

Do you know the name of the person that you reported? Will they send you a picture to ensure that the same person is being disciplined? Let's hope so, this is why I think it would have been better to act right there and then.

I do understand that your original intent was just to warn other cruisers but taking care of it on the ship and then going on CC not only to warn others but also telling us how NCL reacted would have been the perfect situation. I guess you can still share how this will be resolved.

[ZoneHPH]

[quote name='BeachBumMama']But also let's not forget that the OP isn't accusing the guy of anything other than touching her daughter in a manner that made her uncomfortable. To my recollection of all the posts she isn't flying off the handle with all kinds of accusations of anything other than that. And I don't see why anyone has a reason to doubt her word.

And as I posted above, I wonder how people would feel if it were a 25-30 year old man? Would the views change?:confused:[/QUOTE]

well the fact that people have the liberty to challenge her word should not be a surprise. i don't think anyone is saying she IS flying off the handle. given all the input "for" or "against" her feeling/actions...my input would be just like any good fact finding hunter would do...get all the info.

reading the OP's posts does not constitute "all the info". her position/feelings on the matter are noted...AGAIN...just too bad we don't get the benefit of hearing from the other parties.

am i doubting the OP at all? no...i just won't pass judgement until i get all the facts...which obviously i won't expect to get. how about someone print this thread and bring it with them on the Gem and take a statement from the this guy.

...i continue to peel the onion to the next layer.

[ZoneHPH]

[quote name='cruitenn']I know I will be flamed for this, hopefully not too much.[/QUOTE]

have no fear...i have the fire extinguisher.

[BeachBumMama]

[quote name='ZoneHPH']my input would be just like any good fact finding hunter would do...get all the info.[/quote]
You're right in that aspect, and the fact that we'll never know what was going through anyone's mind or exactly what transpired. I was interpreting your post of having the salem witch hunts all over again as if it were something the OP was doing, going on a witch hunt so to speak.

[quote name='ZoneHPH']...i continue to peel the onion to the next layer.[/quote]
Having onion sauce on your hot dog for lunch today?:p

[ZoneHPH]

[quote name='BeachBumMama']I was interpreting your post of having the salem witch hunts all over again as if it were something the OP was doing, going on a witch hunt so to speak.[/QUOTE]

fair enough.

and no...i had cup o'noodles.

[sjbdtz]

[quote name='bobnatt']I can't believe all the responses that appear to be defending the crew member and implying the child or the parent was wrong. Go with your gut and write a letter to the CEO of NCL. I would think it is better to err on the side of caution than assume that it was an innocent interaction.[/quote]


You're right. Lock him up, throw away the key. Ruin his entire life because of one absurdly over-reacting parent.


This incident just reminds me that there should be a qualification test before you're allowed to be a parent.

[lil buddy]

Sorry, I am still convinced that if the daughter was that uncomfortabel
and if the Grandmother [U]saw[/U] the physical contact occur ( after her daughter mentioning that she had found the young man rude and suggestive, on a prior occasion) this should have been dealt with on the ship. I don not disagree with the mother's anger and frustration but I think it's after the fact and should be put to rest.

[Sick of Snow]

I thought that this was a forum where people came to share their experiences from the cruises that they have been on. I found this site prior to taking the trip we went on and gained a lot of valuable information here. I have read many reviews that other people have left of their shipboard experiences. This to me, fell into that category.

I am appalled that I have been called a liar and bad parent because in part I didn't handle the situation in a way that someone else deemed appropriate. Or perhaps it is even for being concerned about my daughters feeling and oh yes for over exaggerating the situation. I'm not really clear why people are feeling the need to be nasty. For me that rates right up there with the person who feels I should let my daughter have this "thrill" and leave the poor guy alone.

It's no wonder that so many woman do not report abusive situations. This is insane.

[Cruzin2paradise09]

[quote name='sjbdtz']You're right. Lock him up, throw away the key. Ruin his entire life because of [COLOR=red]one absurdly over-reacting parent[/COLOR].


This incident just reminds me that there should be a qualification test before you're allowed to be a parent.[/quote]

WOW - you must not have daughter(s) . . . This is unfair.

I was going to keep quiet, but here goes anyway. I agree that if the child was uncomfortable, then something should at least be said to the superiors. You see, I have not one but two daughters. I have been in a situation where a middle-school (male) student decided that he needed to know what a young girl's breasts felt like while on a school bus on the way home! Yes, he touched her . . . did anyone on the bus do/say anything? NOPE. Did I call the bus barn and ream the director for the lack of anything from her driver? You bet. Did I call the principal of the school? Yup. Did it get taken care of? Sort of . . .

Anyway, my point is that just because you wanna touch doesn't mean you can. Sometimes it's just a light touch on the arm and sometimes, it's worse.

Whether the OP came here before, after or during the incident, doesn't make a big difference. She came here as a loving parent of a young daughter to just open up a communication door. It wasn't open for everyone to decide exactly what happened. Not the issue.

It may very well have been 2,000% innocent, but you know, it doesn't really matter. It happened, it was inappropriate and she let someone on the ship know, again, it doesn't matter that it was after the fact. It really doesn't matter. She communicated the issue. Period, end of subject.

But, making the comment "[COLOR=#ff0000]one absurdly over-reacting parent" [/COLOR][COLOR=black]is really more unfair than the parent addressing the situation.[/COLOR]

[BeachBumMama]

[quote name='sjbdtz']You're right. Lock him up, throw away the key. Ruin his entire life because of one absurdly over-reacting parent.


This incident just reminds me that there should be a qualification test before you're allowed to be a parent.[/quote]
And your post makes me think that if there was one, you would possibly fail.:rolleyes:

Again I ask the question... would you or anyone else feel the same way if it were a 30 year old man who did this?:confused:

[suzyed]

[quote name='sjbdtz']You're right. Lock him up, throw away the key. Ruin his entire life because of one absurdly over-reacting parent.


This incident just reminds me that there should be a qualification test before you're allowed to be a parent.[/quote]
Or allowed to work on a cruise ship. :rolleyes:

[suzyed]

[quote name='sjbdtz']You're right. Lock him up, throw away the key. Ruin his entire life because of one absurdly over-reacting parent.


This incident just reminds me that there should be a qualification test before you're allowed to be a parent.[/quote]
And how many kids do you have?

I don't normally say this...but you are dead wrong...

[suzyed]

[quote name='Sick of Snow']I thought that this was a forum where people came to share their experiences from the cruises that they have been on. I found this site prior to taking the trip we went on and gained a lot of valuable information here. I have read many reviews that other people have left of their shipboard experiences. This to me, fell into that category.

I am appalled that I have been called a liar and bad parent because in part I didn't handle the situation in a way that someone else deemed appropriate. Or perhaps it is even for being concerned about my daughters feeling and oh yes for over exaggerating the situation. I'm not really clear why people are feeling the need to be nasty. For me that rates right up there with the person who feels I should let my daughter have this "thrill" and leave the poor guy alone.

It's no wonder that so many woman do not report abusive situations. This is insane.[/quote]
You were right to do what you did and you were very generous to share that experience here. You are a good mother and did exactly what a good parent would do. For others to quibble about when and how you handled it is just ludicris.
As for the people that want to make light of this or disbelieve what you are saying, these are the type of people that you probably don't want your children around unescorted. They are the type that want "proof", and if you dont have video proof, an incident never happened. We all know that child molestors (not say this guy is one), and rapist and criminals do not do their bad deeds in public or where there will be witnesses. I just can't believe the response that some have given to this.

[adlaistevenson]

[quote name='Cruzin2paradise09']It may very well have been 2,000% innocent, but you know, it doesn't really matter. [COLOR=black][/COLOR][/quote]

I'm assuming it matters to the guy being called a child molester who might lose his job. But that's just my assumption.

[suzyed]

[quote name='adlaistevenson']I'm assuming it matters to the guy being called a child molester who might lose his job. But that's just my assumption.[/quote]
No one called him a child molester. The family thought that touching the child was inappropriate and acted accordingly.