New Fuel Surchage Increase 5/1/08

[aussietrek]

We really don't have to go pre-industrial to defeat OPEC and its strangle-hold on america. Instead, we go super-high-tech to eliminate the need for oil. Development of alternative energy will create new jobs in a whole new industry, hardly a step backwards. Once thing that is certain is the supply of oil is finite and eventually it will be depleted, so why put off for tomorrow what we can and should do today?

 

Great point!

[xpcdoojk]

We really don't have to go pre-industrial to defeat OPEC and its strangle-hold on america. Instead, we go super-high-tech to eliminate the need for oil. Development of alternative energy will create new jobs in a whole new industry, hardly a step backwards. Once thing that is certain is the supply of oil is finite and eventually it will be depleted, so why put off for tomorrow what we can and should do today?

 

OK, invent it. Don't tell others how to live. I hate to tell you this that OIL is the engine of our economy if we turn the spigot off tomorrow we revert to a pre-industrial world overnight. Your perfect world will self-destruct within 6 months.

 

In the meantime, I choose for us to feed the poor by increasing our use and discovery of energy. We need to drill off the coast of Florida, and in the gulf. We need to drill off the coast of California. Anwar needs to be open to drilling. We need to build nuclear powerplants and to build new oil refineries. We need to allow individuals the economic rewards to create these new wonderful world changing creations of energy from air and water and the sun that the doom and gloom folks are dreaming of. I have never seen a Government organization create anything except waste. As the price of fuel goes up it causes people to try and create the next great energy, and your desired conservation. I know of no intelligent people who think waste is a good thing, but your solution to waste is actually a greater waste, and far more destructive.

 

Doom and gloom religious beliefs have been around forever, and I wonder why so many people look at the world and see only the end, and want to participate in these religious causes. I wake up and see a great world that has gotten better every generation for the majority of people that live in free liberty loving countries, and continued horror and poverty for those condemned to tyrants and marxists governments.

 

There may be a finite amount of oil, but the only true limits are the ones we impose on ourselves by listening to mental midgets like Al Gore.

 

jc

[nrdsb4]

Whew, it's getting a little warm in here.

 

I'd better turn on the AC. Oops, no I'll just switch on the fan.

 

Oh, Hell. I'll just wave a magazine back and forth in front of my face and do my part to conserve energy.:D

[aussietrek]

OK, invent it. Don't tell others how to live. I hate to tell you this that OIL is the engine of our economy if we turn the spigot off tomorrow we revert to a pre-industrial world overnight. Your perfect world will self-destruct within 6 months.

 

In the meantime, I choose for us to feed the poor by increasing our use and discovery of energy. We need to drill off the coast of Florida, and in the gulf. We need to drill off the coast of California. Anwar needs to be open to drilling. We need to build nuclear powerplants and to build new oil refineries. We need to allow individuals the economic rewards to create these new wonderful world changing creations of energy from air and water and the sun that the doom and gloom folks are dreaming of. I have never seen a Government organization create anything except waste. As the price of fuel goes up it causes people to try and create the next great energy, and your desired conservation. I know of no intelligent people who think waste is a good thing, but your solution to waste is actually a greater waste, and far more destructive.

 

Doom and gloom religious beliefs have been around forever, and I wonder why so many people look at the world and see only the end, and want to participate in these religious causes. I wake up and see a great world that has gotten better every generation for the majority of people that live in free liberty loving countries, and continued horror and poverty for those condemned to tyrants and marxists governments.

 

There may be a finite amount of oil, but the only true limits are the ones we impose on ourselves by listening to mental midgets like Al Gore.

 

jc

 

 

hahaha...I hope I'm smited with Al Gore's mental midgetry problem. LMAO...give me a break!

 

why is it that people get sooooo angry about this issue and can't have a simple conversation about it? You talk about this being a religion? Your response reminds me of a religious person's response to the suggestion there may not be a god. Closed eyes, closed ears, closed mind. This is just a conversation...we don't claim to be final authorities in any way and I don't understand why you think you are...no one is telling anyone how to live. We are talking about our own personal choices.

 

And anyway, let's assume this was a BLACK and WHITE pure right and wrong issue (a very unlikely scenario).

 

which side do we really want to err on? The side that makes our economy come up with more energy efficient ways of doing things...or the side where are planet is destroyed?

[aussietrek]

Whew, it's getting a little warm in here.

 

I'd better turn on the AC. Oops, no I'll just switch on the fan.

 

Oh, Hell. I'll just wave a magazine back and forth in front of my face and do my part to conserve energy.:D

 

 

hahahaha...lmao. :)

[KarinaGW]

...or the side where are planet is destroyed?

 

This is the part that always amuses me in these conversations. We won't destroy the planet. We'll destroy ourselves, but in a few hundred (or maybe several thousand, depending on exactly how stupidly we destroy ourselves), Earth will be green and life will go on.

 

It's certainly understandable that we feel the need to say us being gone and the planet being gone are one and the same...but, it ain't true.

[eetonaee]

If you check your paper today you may see a story on how Vegas hotel groups are losing money for the first time ever and one hotel -the Tropicana I think - has gone into Chapter 11.

 

Didn't 4 airlines go into receivership last month while others are merging to cut costs. They are also charging for things like extra bags, pillows, blankets and food.

 

There has been a shortage of rice and corn which is causing food price increases around the world.

 

Here in Canada thanks to extra taxes we already pay the equivalent of over $5.00 per gallon for gas. (We measure it in litres so at $1.30 per litre it doesn't look as bad).

 

So if cruise companies are willing to continue building new ships, and offer terrific value for an all-inclusive vacation during most weeks of the year I will gladly pay a measly $56 extra to escape the troubles of the world and be treated like royalty for a week.

[reeran]

We just got back from a repo cruise on the Grandeur and during the Captain's Q&A at our Crown & Anchor party someone asked about fuel. He gave us the figures and then said that it breaks down to about 37 MPG per person soooooooooooo.... knowing that my gas guzzling SUV does not come close to this...and as the previous poster remarked "the ship will sail with or without me" I will not cancel my upcoming cruise.

As for the fuel charges, my thoughts are add it to the price of the cruise, don't play games.

[kidless]

In the meantime, I choose for us to feed the poor by increasing our use and discovery of energy. We need to drill off the coast of Florida, and in the gulf. We need to drill off the coast of California. Anwar needs to be open to drilling. We need to build nuclear powerplants and to build new oil refineries. .........

There may be a finite amount of oil, but the only true limits are the ones we impose on ourselves by listening to mental midgets like Al Gore.

 

jc

 

Well, will wonders never cease I never thought in a million years I would ever agree with you..............but on those points I do!!!!

[kidless]

This is the part that always amuses me in these conversations. We won't destroy the planet. We'll destroy ourselves, but in a few hundred (or maybe several thousand, depending on exactly how stupidly we destroy ourselves), Earth will be green and life will go on.

 

It's certainly understandable that we feel the need to say us being gone and the planet being gone are one and the same...but, it ain't true.

 

Nothing lasts forever....................;)

[WhiteSoxFan]

We just got back from a repo cruise on the Grandeur and during the Captain's Q&A at our Crown & Anchor party someone asked about fuel. He gave us the figures and then said that it breaks down to about 37 MPG per person soooooooooooo.... knowing that my gas guzzling SUV does not come close to this...

 

It would if you drove around with your car at maximum passenger capacity like the ships do.

 

Just a thought based on this concept, maybe it's not how much we consume but there are too many consumers. Have we reached or exceeded the practical human capacity of the planet?

[bktx1]

I wonder if Windstar is charging a fuel supplement?

 

:p

[trafficlaw]

...the only true limits are the ones we impose on ourselves by listening to mental midgets like Al Gore.

 

jc

 

If Al Gore is a mental midget, I guess Cheney and Bush, Limbaugh, Hanity, Colter, et al, have the combined intellegence of a single cell organism. :)

[nrdsb4]

Are you all kidding?

 

It's fake?

 

I just got the bill for my father's house's recent heating oil fill-up.

 

$4.50 per gallon.

 

The cruiselines aren't making this up, people.

 

Filled your car lately? :rolleyes:

 

Just got back from the gas station. $89.25 to fill up my car.:eek: I've never gotten out of the 70's before today. Unreal.

[trafficlaw]

This is the part that always amuses me in these conversations. We won't destroy the planet. We'll destroy ourselves, but in a few hundred (or maybe several thousand, depending on exactly how stupidly we destroy ourselves), Earth will be green and life will go on.

 

It's certainly understandable that we feel the need to say us being gone and the planet being gone are one and the same...but, it ain't true.

 

True, and George Carlin did a really funny routine on this topic. But do we really want to hand over a trashed planet to the future generations?

[aussietrek]

If Al Gore is a mental midget, I guess Cheney and Bush, Limbaugh, Hanity, Colter, et al, have the combined intellegence of a single cell organism. :)

 

now really trafficlaw...don't you think you're being a bit generous here?? :D

[xpcdoojk]

hahaha...I hope I'm smited with Al Gore's mental midgetry problem. LMAO...give me a break!

 

why is it that people get sooooo angry about this issue and can't have a simple conversation about it? You talk about this being a religion? Your response reminds me of a religious person's response to the suggestion there may not be a god. Closed eyes, closed ears, closed mind. This is just a conversation...we don't claim to be final authorities in any way and I don't understand why you think you are...no one is telling anyone how to live. We are talking about our own personal choices.

 

And anyway, let's assume this was a BLACK and WHITE pure right and wrong issue (a very unlikely scenario).

 

which side do we really want to err on? The side that makes our economy come up with more energy efficient ways of doing things...or the side where are planet is destroyed?

I want to err on the side of not destroying the world economy which is based 100% of the free flow of oil at market prices.

 

I do not want to destroy the economy based on a global warming theory that is not based on observeable nor repeatable junk science.

 

jc

[xpcdoojk]

If Al Gore is a mental midget, I guess Cheney and Bush, Limbaugh, Hanity, Colter, et al, have the combined intellegence of a single cell organism. :)

 

HAHA... I knew your political ideology would not be able to remain unknown with that comment.:D Exactly why are you posting this on a cruise forum?:D

 

LMAO

 

jc

[aussietrek]

I want to err on the side of not destroying the world economy which is based 100% of the free flow of oil at market prices.

 

I do not want to destroy the economy based on a global warming theory that is not based on observeable nor repeatable junk science.

 

jc

 

 

really? Have you read the journal articles that have been published in scientific journals on both sides of this equation?

 

If so, I'd love to have a discussion about it. If you haven't had a chance to look at them yet, take a look at the journal called "Nature" which is a highly reputable peer-reviewed journal which publishes articles on both sides.

 

I'll promise to read the information on the anti-global warming side if you promise to read the science on the pro-side. could be fun...open a dialogue? maybe we'll both learn something??

[Bert64]

Are you serious? You threw out Al Gore first...

[woof22]

really? Have you read the journal articles that have been published in scientific journals on both sides of this equation?

 

If so, I'd love to have a discussion about it. If you haven't had a chance to look at them yet, take a look at the journal called "Nature" which is a highly reputable peer-reviewed journal which publishes articles on both sides.

 

I'll promise to read the information on the anti-global warming side if you promise to read the science on the pro-side. could be fun...open a dialogue? maybe we'll both learn something??

 

Come on. Rush Limbaugh says global warming is bogus, isn't that enough?

[xpcdoojk]

really? Have you read the journal articles that have been published in scientific journals on both sides of this equation?

 

If so, I'd love to have a discussion about it. If you haven't had a chance to look at them yet, take a look at the journal called "Nature" which is a highly reputable peer-reviewed journal which publishes articles on both sides.

 

I'll promise to read the information on the anti-global warming side if you promise to read the science on the pro-side. could be fun...open a dialogue? maybe we'll both learn something??

 

Yes, I have read a lot of stuff on this topic. I think global warming is possibly happening, and you and I have nothing to do with it. The sun is the leading cause of warmth on this planet. Do you know that the earth has had warming and cooling cycles in the past and we will continue to have them in the future, and you and I can't start or stop them. BTW, my email is in my signature so feel free to send me "proof" of global warming. :D

 

This, however, is a cruise forum where we talk about the fun vacation of cruising. As such this discussion is inappropriate in this forum, and many members resent political and religious discussions in the forum. Many members don't appreciate having others imply that they are ruining the planet because they want to enjoy a vacation.

 

jc

 

PS Bert... Al Gore is what is called bait, and I appreciate the hungry fish that bit.:D I further appreciate that this topic has nothing to do with cruising.

[WhiteSoxFan]

 

I do not want to destroy the economy based on a global warming theory that is not based on observeable nor repeatable junk science.

 

jc

 

The entire theory of global warming is based entirely on observation. BTW scientific theory is not a guess, it is a model that has basis in fact. That does not make it a perfect model. Scientific theory is constantly updated.

 

There is no doubt the planet is currently warming at an unprecedented rate. Now the questions are: Is it the start of a long term trend? Is it part of the normal global cycle, is a by product of our consumption or is it a combination? Can we reduce the rate at which the warming occurs?

 

Certainly the planet has had considerable swings in average temperature during it's history. That does not mean that here were no consequences when this occurred. Global changes as well as other factors (including humans) are responsible for 6 mass extinctions during the planets history.

[aussietrek]

Yes, I have read a lot of stuff on this topic. I think global warming is possibly happening, and you and I have nothing to do with it. The sun is the leading cause of warmth on this planet. Do you know that the earth has had warming and cooling cycles in the past and we will continue to have them in the future, and you and I can't start or stop them. BTW, my email is in my signature so feel free to send me "proof" of global warming. :D

 

This, however, is a cruise forum where we talk about the fun vacation of cruising. As such this discussion is inappropriate in this forum, and many members resent political and religious discussions in the forum. Many members don't appreciate having others imply that they are ruining the planet because they want to enjoy a vacation.

 

jc

 

PS Bert... Al Gore is what is called bait, and I appreciate the hungry fish that bit.:D I further appreciate that this topic has nothing to do with cruising.

 

I feel that I've reiterated a number of times that I am currently booked to go on a cruise...so I'm not trying to accuse or imply anything about people's vacations. We are having a diaologue about an activity that may or may not be contributing to a potential environmental problem, and I think this is as good a forum as any.

 

I'm still going to enjoy my cruise...in fact, I can't wait!!! And I hope everyone else will too. Doesn't mean we can't think about what we're doing and think of whether there is a better/other way...even if it means off-setting some of these choices with other easy to change behaviors.

 

Nevertheless, I think I've said all I want to say. I'm glad to hear you are reading the science - surprised to hear that you think it has nothing to do with humans...but you are of course free to your opinion.

 

Everyone - please enjoy your cruise as I will enjoy mine and apologies if someone is offended by this diaologue.

 

Cheers!

[xpcdoojk]

The entire theory of global warming is based entirely on observation. BTW scientific theory is not a guess, it is a model that has basis in fact. That does not make it a perfect model. Scientific theory is constantly updated.

 

There is no doubt the planet is currently warming at an unprecedented rate. Now the questions are: Is it the start of a long term trend? Is it part of the normal global cycle, is a by product of our consumption or is it a combination? Can we reduce the rate at which the warming occurs?

 

Certainly the planet has had considerable swings in average temperature during it's history. That does not mean that here were no consequences when this occurred. Global changes as well as other factors (including humans) are responsible for 6 mass extinctions during the planets history.

 

Ok, I will bite one more time. Statements like

 

"There is no doubt the planet is currently warming at an unprecedented rate."

 

pretty much are political statements borrowed straight from Al Gore. There is absolute doubt of this statements accuracy. Just ask the folks in Ontario and Minnesota if their direct observations of this past winter match that statement!:D

 

Global changes could lead to our extinction, the planet will continue to do just fine without us. Since the goal is to save the planet, I just say don't worry it will be perfect with or without us.

 

jc