Passenger Vessel Services Act summary to date

[Mizzoocruizer]

Now let's add some clarification notes in order to be fair:

Innoye, Abercrombie and Akaka are all Democrats

Governor Lingle is a Republican (so the Department of Commerce would be under a Republican as well.)

The Hawaii State Legislature (both Houses) are controlled by Republicans.

Howdy....I agree with most of the above, but, just so y'all know, the hawaii legislature (both houses) is controlled by Democrats, not repubs. My cousin in Hawaii assures me this is so, and sure enough, it's true if you look it up.

[Mizzoocruizer]

LOL, I'm so lost now as to what they are going to do I'm really not going to worry about it. I'll go where ever I have to to get on that ship.

The sad thing is really the loss of jobs if this does eventually make it through.

 

Hey You are up to 4 posts:D

 

Dianne

There you go. This will get sorted out....just think about the eventual wonderful cruise you'll be on, no matter where you have to go to get on the darned ship!

[Cruisin' Chick]

Eeekkkkk, Karen, does this mean they are going with the 50 per cent provision? If that's true, that's going to be a financial disaster for the US port cities that would be affected.:mad:

 

Are there some news stories in the cruising press that address that link?????

 

BTW, welcome to CLF, Mizzoocruiser! I'm guessing you're from Missouri or went to school at the University. I got my masters from the J-school there years ago.

[Cruisin' Chick]

BTW, the RT Hawaiian cruise is great. I don't recommend it for those new to cruising, as it can be a rough one at the start. But if you've been on other cruises and love sea days, it's a fun one. And it's great for those who can't fly or hate to (I'm in the second category). We're about an hour's drive away from San Pedro.

[vjmatty]

BTW' date=' the RT Hawaiian cruise is great. I don't recommend it for those new to cruising, as it can be a rough one at the start. But if you've been on other cruises and love sea days, it's a fun one. And it's great for those who can't fly or hate to (I'm in the second category). We're about an hour's drive away from San Pedro.[/quote']

 

Glad to hear it is a great cruise, we are (hopefully, PVSA permitting) taking the Golden Princess to Hawaii next April. The sea days don't bother me since we have taken transatlantics before.

 

Unfortunately we do have to fly since we are from NY :( Of course, that is assuming we still have our flight, as our tickets are with United.... which we booked about a week before all of the bad news.

 

Yeah, between the PVSA and United's financial woes, this April cruise has disaster written all over it :o

[ccrain]

There is one significant change in that rule posting that will basically impact only the HI cruises. None of the others. It seems DHS has found a way to target HI, but not Ak cruises.

 

"...where a large U.S.-flag coastwise-qualified passenger vessel engages in regular service ..."

 

Note the word "large". I'm sure they are only talking about NCLA vessels here. And since NCLA is down to only 1 vessel (in HI only - there are no other "large" US vessels in any other itinerary), they can hold Princess, HAL, X and RCL hostage with this new rule unless the others simply switch to a foreign port to start with.

 

Note that if NCLA goes under and they pull out of the HI market, then the others are back in. Maybe the others can "buy" the Pride, sell it for scrap to keep this rule from ever being in force.

 

We now booked on the Golden in 09 to HI. If Princess switches to Ensenada, we will cancel, but we might get some rebate for the major change...

[SeattleCruiselover]

Eeekkkkk' date=' Karen, does this mean they are going with the 50 per cent provision? If that's true, that's going to be a financial disaster for the US port cities that would be affected.:mad:

 

Are there some news stories in the cruising press that address that link?????

 

BTW, welcome to CLF, Mizzoocruiser! I'm guessing you're from Missouri or went to school at the University. I got my masters from the J-school there years ago.[/quote']

 

Patty: I haven't seen anything yet, but, believe me, my eyes are always open and looking, and am listening for colleagues talking. Soon as I see or hear something all y'all will be the first to know.

[vjmatty]

We now booked on the Golden in 09 to HI. If Princess switches to Ensenada, we will cancel, but we might get some rebate for the major change...

 

Why would you cancel.... is it that much more difficult to get to Ensenada? We are on the Golden in April so I am curious.

[DAGVBSB]

Howdy....I agree with most of the above, but, just so y'all know, the hawaii legislature (both houses) is controlled by Democrats, not repubs. My cousin in Hawaii assures me this is so, and sure enough, it's true if you look it up.

 

Interesting.... then that makes Innoye and Akaka look even worse since their own state party has abandoned them.

 

Since the old thread is completely gone, I can't go back and check, but I swear someone said that Republicans had control of at least one house of the Hawaii Legislature. (another reason why the loss of the old thread is so damaging to factual exchange on this topic.)

[SherriZ366]

DAVVBSB -- will see what I can find out about Hawaii's legislature.

 

This is where one misses the institutional memory represented by the old thread.

[SherriZ366]

Oh, dear. If you look at the date on that interim rule, it is May 08. This version has dropped the 48 hour part, but everything else remains intact. If they published this in May, the final interpretation is likely coming within the next 30 days or so. Yes, it saves the AK season for this year, because it would likely be another 60 days before implementation is required, but think of all the other itineraries that they would have to scramble to redo.

 

Thank the good Lord our cruise next year is out of YVR. I just cancelled the one from Red-Hook/Brooklyn.....:eek:

Karen or anyone else -- please re-update me on how the CBP etc. tread US Territories -- ie St. Thomas, San Juan etc.? Are they included in the 50% of time spent in ports outside of the US? For example, if an itinerary has Bahamas, St. Maarten and St. Thomas -- is there a problem if they add San Juan? thanks

[DAGVBSB]

Karen or anyone else -- please re-update me on how the CBP etc. tread US Territories -- ie St. Thomas, San Juan etc.? Are they included in the 50% of time spent in ports outside of the US? For example, if an itinerary has Bahamas, St. Maarten and St. Thomas -- is there a problem if they add San Juan? thanks

 

I don't believe that St. Thomas and San Juan are "US Ports" because those areas are just territories of the US and not states.

 

Besides, with the clause about a US flagged ship already operating, it wouldn't affect any Carribean itineraries because there is no US ship there.

[SherriZ366]

I don't believe that St. Thomas and San Juan are "US Ports" because those areas are just territories of the US and not states.

 

Besides, with the clause about a US flagged ship already operating, it wouldn't affect any Carribean itineraries because there is no US ship there.

That's good to know. thanks

[ccrain]

Why would you cancel.... is it that much more difficult to get to Ensenada? We are on the Golden in April so I am curious.

 

and the bus ride is terrible from Ensenada to San Diego, or LAX, whereever they decide to "disembark".

 

It wouldn't affect our embarkation since we're coming down from YVR, although embarkation for everyone else will involve a bus trip from San Diego at a minimum, disembarkation and crossing the border from the south is a real pain.

[ccrain]

Karen or anyone else -- please re-update me on how the CBP etc. tread US Territories -- ie St. Thomas, San Juan etc.? Are they included in the 50% of time spent in ports outside of the US? For example, if an itinerary has Bahamas, St. Maarten and St. Thomas -- is there a problem if they add San Juan? thanks

 

To my knowledge there is only one "large" US Flagged passenger vessel (Pride of Fleecing America - I believe), so in one fell swoop the DHS has conveniently protected NCLA, thrown San Diego and LA under the bus, while keeping SFO, Seattle and the Northeast ports happy.

[cherylandtk]

Karen or anyone else -- please re-update me on how the CBP etc. tread US Territories -- ie St. Thomas, San Juan etc.?

As I was told, those ports are already specifically exempted by name from the coastwise transportation prohibition in the PVSA.

[SherriZ366]

To my knowledge there is only one "large" US Flagged passenger vessel (Pride of Fleecing America - I believe), so in one fell swoop the DHS has conveniently protected NCLA, thrown San Diego and LA under the bus, while keeping SFO, Seattle and the Northeast ports happy.

Great -- with the LARGE SHIP designation, it does not affect the Caribbean and I don't think under we will see Pride of XXXx coming into that market with its higher costs.

[SherriZ366]

As I was told, those ports are already specifically exempted by name from the coastwise transportation prohibition in the PVSA.

Wonderful!!!

[Mizzoocruizer]

Interesting.... then that makes Innoye and Akaka look even worse since their own state party has abandoned them.

 

Since the old thread is completely gone, I can't go back and check, but I swear someone said that Republicans had control of at least one house of the Hawaii Legislature. (another reason why the loss of the old thread is so damaging to factual exchange on this topic.)

Well, according to this the leader of the Senate is a Dem, and so is the leader of the House:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii_Legislature

[DAGVBSB]

Well, according to this the leader of the Senate is a Dem, and so is the leader of the House:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii_Legislature

 

Wow, that does make Innoye and the rest of the Hawaii Congressional Delegation look even worse. They have chosen to side with a cruise line over not only their own constituents but their own party officials as well!!

[cvanhorn]

So, foreign port time must equal 50% of total port time. Just checked our San Diego R/T Hawaii for November 6 and not counting San Diego at all it spends a total of 62 hours in Hawaii Ports. So that means it would have to spend an additional 62 hours in a foreign port to equal 50% of the total port time (124 hours) So, Ensenda debarkation/embarcation. ( does it just have to do either and not both??)

I see on my registration on Celebrity's sight it says "this reservation is being modifed, please check back later" I hope that means with all insides sold out they are moving me to a Suite, but more likely a bus ride to or from Ensenada.

[ccrain]

Great -- with the LARGE SHIP designation, it does not affect the Caribbean and I don't think under we will see Pride of XXXx coming into that market with its higher costs.

 

...that the Pride is specifically excluded from any cruise market except HI under a US flag?

 

Part of the Inouye deal to get congress to re-flag a vessel built in another country from US scrap.

 

The exemption for NCLA specifically excludes them from moving the Pride to another venue under a US flag. They can, of course, dump the US flag, like the other 2 pride ships and go wherever they please.

[Cruisin' Chick]

To my knowledge there is only one "large" US Flagged passenger vessel (Pride of Fleecing America - I believe), so in one fell swoop the DHS has conveniently protected NCLA, thrown San Diego and LA under the bus, while keeping SFO, Seattle and the Northeast ports happy.

 

#@*^:mad: . Please don't tell my daughter I said this.:o

So no one has seen anything else on this?????

[DAGVBSB]

To my knowledge there is only one "large" US Flagged passenger vessel (Pride of Fleecing America - I believe), so in one fell swoop the DHS has conveniently protected NCLA, thrown San Diego and LA under the bus, while keeping SFO, Seattle and the Northeast ports happy.

 

NCL's plan all along was to create a monopoly in Hawaii for their ships. Their paid lap dog Innoye (you know, the Godfather of one of their ships...) went along with the deal and used his influence to push it through. (in spite of the fact that his HOME state government and people were saying no and that it will hurt their economy.)

 

They tried to sneak it through in the dead of night. (well, the dead of December when everyone was more interested in Christmas.)

 

When Alaska (and Senator Stevens.. almost as powerful as Innoye) and the Northeast states cried foul, NCL pointed out that they only meant the new rules to apply to Hawaii. (let's not forget that NCL is just as guilty in Alaska as they are accusing the others of in Hawaii.) Innoye and Stevens then got together and came up with the new clause about "large US ship" to get the other areas off the table.

 

I still think the information in the linked to article is dated and is not the final decision. The issue has too many problems and that ruling would immediatly be challenged on several grounds. Do you think Governor Schwartzenegger, Senator Feinstein and the Mayors and Congressmen from LA and San Diego are sit there and let this go through?? It would have a major impact on the economies of LA, San Diego and California...areas already hard hit in this recession. (Unfortunately, this won't be an issue in the Presidential Election, California is no longer a real player in the Presidental Electoral College Sweepstakes because they are not a swing state...Democrats easily win that state in Presidential elections...)

 

I also don't think Hawaii will accept the decision without putting up a fight.

 

Let's look at some other issues:

1.) When NCL started this push they were planning on having 2 ships in Hawaii... POAm and the POA. Then in February, after testimony closed and it looked like a decision would not be iminent, they decided to pull the POA out of Hawaii leaving one ship.

 

2.) Is that one ship and the 700 US jobs on board that ship worth the port workers, transportation workers and tourism workers in California and Hawaii that will lose their jobs when the cruise lines move to Mexico??

 

3.) Is that one ship worth the inconveinence that people will have to face to go to Mexico to embark?? NCL is sadly mistaken that this will stop the Hawaii runs by other cruise lines...they will just move to Mexico taking the jobs with them. All NCL is doing is making in inconveinent for passengers... and those passengers WILL remember who did this to them and NCL will get a bad name.

 

4.) I still don't know how you can enforce this rule in one area and not in another. How can you put a "qualifier" (large US ship in the market) on rule?? How is that fair under the equal protection clause of the US Constitution?? I'm sure that California officials are already looking to challenge that little clause right there.

 

5.) WHY IS A US GOVERNMENT AGENCY MISUSING THEIR POWER TO PROTECT ONE COMPANY AT THE EXPENSE OF OTHER COMPAINES AND, MORE IMPORTANTLY AT THE EXPENSE OF AMERICAN JOBS AND ECONOMY???

 

6.) There is still a chance that Apollo will decide not to continue NCL-America after the end of the year as stipulated in their contract with Star and NCL. So, then the whole rule is meaningless once the POAm is converted to an International flag.

 

7.) NCL is based in Miami, RCI is based in Miami. Both are basically the same as far as ownership. Why is the US Government showing favortism to one company over another?? The US has always been against Monopolies, (see Sherman Anti-Trust Act) BUT yet, we are willing to create one in Hawaii for a non-US company???

 

I have said it before, and I will say it again, NCL's problems lie in one place, their corporate management and their inept President. NCL would be a much better company if they got a President who knew what he was doing. If Colin Veitch was a good leader/President, he wouldn't need to have to use a paid off Senator and the US Government to force a monopoly. He could have made NCL-America successful through his leadership.. but it would take good leadership to do that....

[Cruzman]

3.) Is that one ship worth the inconveinence that people will have to face to go to Mexico to embark?? NCL is sadly mistaken that this will stop the Hawaii runs by other cruise lines...they will just move to Mexico taking the jobs with them. All NCL is doing is making in inconveinent for passengers... and those passengers WILL remember who did this to them and NCL will get a bad name.

 

I for one, believe that NCL already has a very bad name; and for lots of reasons, including what has been said here. Too bad too, because I am told that they have some really nice ships.