Will Celebrity be next to "up" the fuel surcharges???

[FinelyCruising]

This is about subsiding the airlines. The airlines have eliminated flights in anticipation of the reduction in spending and have eliminated non-profitable flights at the same time due to this evaluation process. They do not expect the demand to exceed the supply, but it could I suppose, so maybe book early? But they will be increasing the costs to maintain their profit base. No one will subsidize it, if you fly you will pay.

[bobbyleduck]

Hi Bob,

I've been reading your posts but I still wonder who is going to subsidize the airlines and cruise lines to cover the increased costs of fuel?

 

Imagine, if you will, that fewer people are choosing to fly to destination resorts, as well as cruiseships. That was how it was when flying was in its infant stages. There were a lot of hotels being built in far away places that needed people to fly from where the people lived. Now, imagine that people are staying away in droves, because of the increased cost of flying and the increased cost of staying at the hotels in question. We all know the horror stories about the add-on fees at hotels and resorts, plus the increased cost at restaurants. People are staying away for many reasons, included among those would be choice, as well as it being just too expensive.

 

Which companies will be better situated to do something about these problems? I think it will be the hotel industry, and I believe that once again the hotel industry will need to support, if you will, the industry that gets its customers to them.

 

Now, in addition to the above, I believe that oil prices will come down at some point in time. This too will cause the price of airline tickets to become more reasonable.

 

If you think there was a major bubble in the sub-prime lending market, just wait until you see the fallout from the bursting of the bubble that is "Oil." Can you imagine what will happen to those speculators in oil when the price drops back to $50 a barrel. I can hear the screaming now.

 

Happy cruising to all who can still afford to cruise!

 

Bob

[floridacruisers]

If we all stop travel, then the whole system comes crashing down. Money has to flow through a community to keep people employed and allow them to pay their bills like all of us have to do. I booked the new Equinox cruise for Jan 2010 the day the space became available. Seems a bit of a reach but I locked in the cruise price and also the surcharge at $5. We're paying the price now for not investing in high speed rail many years ago as the European did. I know this is a much larger country but it would have offered us options now that we don't have. Feel free to call me a Monday morning quarterback but many people tried to get high speed rail expanded and failed. Look what happened to all those cities that eliminated trolly systems. Bet they wish they had them back now!

[Susan-M]

Which companies will be better situated to do something about these problems? I think it will be the hotel industry, and I believe that once again the hotel industry will need to support, if you will, the industry that gets its customers to them.

 

 

I have a pretty good imagination (but thanks for suggesting that I use it;) ). Yes...it would be in the best interest of hotels and resorts to subsidize airline costs if they were assured of getting the guests whose airline fees they are subsidizing. But if the hotels are subsidizing the airlines and a good deal of those passengers only stay in a hotel for one night and then head to cruise ships ... then who is going to subsidize the hotel industry?

[adbnva]

we bought $660 gift card from kroger for $600. great return. about the cruise ships, i hope next year they do more round trips from more us ports. flying is a pain & now there is something new every day to make it worst.

we planned to do a lot of things when we retired that don't work out to be fun anymore. i cannot beleive anyone would put up w/the hassell of flying for a 3-4 day cruise. good luck to everyone. ad

[adbnva]

I am old enough (53) to have seen this play out in the past, and I have chosen in the past, the same as I will choose today. I will let the airlines and cruiselines play this game, and I will sit on the sidelines. I will take the opportunity to visit some local attractions. There are a lot of planes and cruiseships to fill, and frankly I don't care if some of the companies go bankrupt. I will not put my finances in danger in order to keep them afloat!;)

 

If, given the current state of the economy, there are enough people willing to fork over their hard-earned money then the vacation industry won't suffer. If, on the other hand, enough people stay away that it puts a crimp on hotels and others dependent on the travel and leisure industry, then somebody else will have to subsidize the airlines and cruiselines in order to get us there. Yes, I've seen that happen in the past and can only say, "Bring it on!" My money will continue to earn money until some company makes me an offer I can't refuse.

 

Happy cruising to all who can still afford to cruise!

 

Bob

 

P.S. Did any of you take your "Stimulus" and/or refund to your favorite grocery store and get gift cards with an additional 10 percent added to the card? I did, and received an extra $120 added to my $1,200. I will spend it only on groceries that I would have bought otherwise. I don't know of any other place I can get a guaranteed 10 percent return on my money, and best of all it's tax free.

we bought $660 gift card from kroger for $600. great return. about the cruise ships, i hope next year they do more round trips from more us ports. flying is a pain & now there is something new every day to make it worst.

we planned to do a lot of things when we retired that don't work out to be fun anymore. i cannot beleive anyone would put up w/the hassell of flying for a 3-4 day cruise. good luck to everyone. ad

[bobbyleduck]

Isn't speculating fun! Now I understand why all of those oil speculators are so busy driving up the price of oil. It would appear that they have more money than brains, and the "deal" is what's driving them. If we keep paying these inflated prices, while our own income and/or investments are losing ground, then we have no one to blame but ourselves. If, on the other hand, we just say, "No," for a little while, we may eventually reap the rewards for our actions.

 

Of course, as that famous economist John Maynard Keynes once said, "In the long run we're all dead."

 

Happy cruising to all who can still afford to cruise!

 

Bob

 

P.S. Did you all notice that oil is up more than $12.00 a barrel in the past two days, and that RCL stock is down to $27.66 a share? Ah, speculation!

[bobbyleduck]

we bought $660 gift card from kroger for $600. great return. ad

 

Way to go! Good for you!

 

Happy cruising to all who can still afford to cruise!

 

Bob

 

P.S. To keep this thread on track. I certainly hope that Celebrity doesn't increase its fuel surcharge, but if the oil speculation keeps on keeping on, then I'm sure it will have no choice. On the other hand, I'm off to the grocery store with my list, coupons, and gift card in hand.

[Susan-M]

On the other hand, I'm off to the grocery store with my list, coupons, and gift card in hand.

 

I'll look forward to an answer to my question above when you return. :)

[FinelyCruising]

P.S. Did you all notice that oil is up more than $12.00 a barrel in the past two days, and that RCL stock is down to $27.66 a share? Ah, speculation!

 

Some are making good $$$ in the oil markets. Probably some who have investments in those markets that do cruise too.:o

[ccletzgo]

there is one airline (that I know of) that operates with the business plan that Bobby speaks of. Allegiant airline. They are subsidized by the Hotel and Casinos.

A huge percentage of there fare is leisure. And they still made money last quarter. ;) There stock is holding ground. They fly into regional airports which is very attractive for the sake of long security lines.

There business plan is actually quite amazing.:) BUT... it still depends on passengers keeping there jobs in order operate. Yep, its a vicious circle. :(

There is also some subsidizing going on through travel and tour operators already. Many airlines have contracts now with specific tour operators, but it is only a drop in the bucket..

 

So if the cruise lines would join forces with a smaller airline, yes, I see it could be a good relationship. As far as it saving some of the Biggies like United.........Humm

[bobbyleduck]

Dear Susan:

 

I'm of the opinion that the hotel industry is the most over-priced part of the travel and leisure industry. If they want to continue to fill those useless, over-priced rooms then they'll have to do something to keep people coming. Until the price of oil subsides, it will be up to the executives in the hotel industry to help fill those seats. They've done it in the past, and I'm sure they'll do it again. Of course they'll have to get the auto rental people, and all of those people selling useless, over-priced souvenirs to chip in, but that's what people do during a recession. If they don't cooperate, in order to bring the people to each of the businesses, then they too will suffer the consequences.

 

Think of it this way. If every business cuts back on its pricing a little bit, and becomes a little bit leaner, then all of them have a chance to survive. If none are willing, and all is placed on the backs of the consumers, eventually everybody loses. All except the speculators that will swoop in and buy up all of the bankrupt properties at bargain-sale prices. Think Real Estate!

 

Happy cruising to all who can still afford to cruise!

 

Bob

 

P.S. Shopping is so much fun. I bought $114.42 worth of groceries and spent only $40.13. If I count the 10 percent extra I got on my gift cards then it actually only cost be a little more than $36.00. Now, those numbers don't mean anything, but the following do:

 

4 - Gallons of Whole Milk - $6.36

2 - 96 oz bottles Clorox Bleach - $1.44

2 - 55 oz bottles 2X Laundry Detergent - $3.20

5 - 6 oz packages Oscar Mayer Ham - $4.00

6 - 1.5 ltr bottles Nestle Tea - $4.80

2 - 5 Count State Farm Beef Corn Dogs - $2.80

2 - 16 oz Darigold Sour Cream - $1.60

2 - 12 count/Double Rolls Toilet Paper - $6.39

2.32 lbs Green Seedless Grapes - $1.78

2 - 180 Count boxes 3-ply Kleenex Facial Tissue - $1.60

4 - large boxes of Jello Instant Pudding Mix - $2.24

7 - large boxes of Jello Gelatin - $3.92

 

Plus, I received a coupon good for a FREE loaf of French Bread on my next visit.

[bobbyleduck]

So if the cruise lines would join forces with a smaller airline, yes, I see it could be a good relationship. As far as it saving some of the Biggies like United.........Humm

 

I think most of the biggies are TOAST!

 

Happy cruising to all who can still afford to cruise!

 

Bob

[Susan-M]

Dear Susan:

 

I'm of the opinion that the hotel industry is the most over-priced part of the travel and leisure industry. If they want to continue to fill those useless, over-priced rooms then they'll have to do something to keep people coming.

 

Yes...they'll have to do something to keep people coming to the hotels and resorts, but they're not going to subsidize airlines in order to provide people with lower fares to fly to a cruise port, and that's what the discussion is about.

[bobbyleduck]

Yes...they'll have to do something to keep people coming to the hotels and resorts, but they're not going to subsidize airlines in order to provide people with lower fares to fly to a cruise port, and that's what the discussion is about.

 

You're are correct, but aren't cruiseships little more than floating resorts, and isn't the main part of the cruiseship its hotel.

 

I don't know where we can go with this, but unless the executives running cruiseships, along with other all inclusive resorts, and stand alone hotels do their part to get people onboard (so to speak), then they will suffer as well.

 

All of that goes directly to the point, which is whether Celebrity will, and/or should increase its fuel surcharge.

 

Happy cruising to all who can still afford to cruise.

 

Bob

[Bobblsc]

Fuel costs are the single largest operating cost for an airline. With oil now up to over $130 per barrel, those fuel costs have to be hitting the airlines hard. All airlines have to eventually make at least operating profits to pay lenders and investors.

 

Cruise lines are caught in a similar cost squeeze, although not to the extent as are the airlines. The last I looked at RCL's income statements, I recall that a few years ago fuel was about 10% of total costs, but had increased to about 15% in recent years. I would bet fuel is right now about 20% of costs. We as consumers may like low prices. However, as we pull up to the gas pump and see almost $4.00 per gallon and that price's impact on our costs, let's also consider the costs for the airlines and the cruise lines. We do not have a right to low fuel costs.

 

Much of the blame for our current situation belongs with many of both parties in the United States Congress. These people have continually blocked oil exploration and drilling time and time again. Some have also blocked new nuclear power generation. They have also praised the value of ethanol while at the same time defended high tariffs for ethanol imported from Brazil. Brazil wants to sell us more, but with high import tariffs the price is too high.

 

Our economy must have energy to function. There are oil reserves available on our continent and offshore. We can build additional nuclear power plants. (More than 50% of France's electric power is nuclear generated.) We cannot wish away our problems. We must really solve them.

 

Renewable energy sources, such as wind, water, sunlight, etc., are great, but hardly approaching our current needs. Nor with the current state of technology can we hope that renewable sources can come anywhere near being a major factor in economically meeting our energy needs anytime in the foreseeable future. Scientific and engineering research and development people will continue to look for technical and economic answers, but this will likely take many years.

 

Isn't it strange that Cuba, with Chinese help, is drilling for oil 60 miles off the Florida coast, but our oil companies are precluded from doing so.

 

Of course the net oil exporting countries are very happy with the high oil prices. And some of those countries are using that increased income to our disadvantage. These include Iran, Russia, and Venezuela.

 

To whoever reads this, it is an economic post, not a political one.

 

Bob

[bobbyleduck]

Once again, I profit the following: The consumer has the option to just say, "No!" With that two-letter word there is great power. Remember, most people paying to cruise or fly are doing so out of choice. If enough of us choose to stay closer to home, then the choices will be up to the companies in the travel and leisure industry.

 

Here are some choices we can make. Instead of going on a cruise, I could have a beautiful spa installed on my deck. Instead of flying to Hawaii or Europe, I can buy a new 50" LCD Flat-Screen TV, which I can enjoy every single day of the year. These are things that are going down in price or, at the very least, remaining the same in price and make for interesting alternatives to the high cost of leisure travel. Oh, and by the way, I would have enough money left over to make some interesting visits to more regional sites that don't require me to fly.

 

Choices! Yes, we all have choices! We don't have to pay through the nose, just because speculators in oil have driven the price through the roof. Just say "No!"

 

Happy cruising to all whe can still afford to cruise!

 

Bob

[C 2 C]

Choices! Yes, we all have choices! We don't have to pay through the nose, just because speculators in oil have driven the price through the roof. Just say "No!"

 

Bob

NCL Makes Adjustment to Fuel Supplement

 

 

Miami - Jun 5, 2008 --- As oil prices have continued to rise since NCL's earlier announcement of a fuel supplement, the company announced today an increase to its current fuel supplement. The new fuel supplement will be $11 per person per day for the first and second guests in a stateroom and $5 per person per day for any additional guests in the same stateroom, based on the guidelines below.

I still have a number of cruises booked that are still excluded from the fuel surcharge. As soon as they're gone I also will say No and with these words from Network;

 

"I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore! ...

There is a price point where the value of any non-essential product becomes exactly that: Non-essential and consumers will find value in alternatives.

It is not just the fuel surcharge, and the reduced baggage allowance, and the "fine" for packing a second suitcase, and the discomfort of airline travel, and the frustration of security measures.. put them together as the latest in a "cruise package" and you'll find fewer cruisers.

[Bobblsc]

Once again, I profit the following: The consumer has the option to just say, "No!" With that two-letter word there is great power. Remember, most people paying to cruise or fly are doing so out of choice. If enough of us choose to stay closer to home, then the choices will be up to the companies in the travel and leisure industry.

 

Here are some choices we can make. Instead of going on a cruise, I could have a beautiful spa installed on my deck. Instead of flying to Hawaii or Europe, I can buy a new 50" LCD Flat-Screen TV, which I can enjoy every single day of the year. These are things that are going down in price or, at the very least, remaining the same in price and make for interesting alternatives to the high cost of leisure travel. Oh, and by the way, I would have enough money left over to make some interesting visits to more regional sites that don't require me to fly.

 

Choices! Yes, we all have choices! We don't have to pay through the nose, just because speculators in oil have driven the price through the roof. Just say "No!"

 

Happy cruising to all whe can still afford to cruise!

 

Bob

 

Bob,

 

You must have gone to school at Oregon State University. Aren't they the Ducks? :D

 

Of course each individual makes his own decision about spending and travel. This is after lengthy negotiations with his spouse, after which we go as the wife wishes.:rolleyes:

 

One problem is, however, that when we just say "no" there may not be another opportunity to take that particular trip. The prices could continue to increase, or health or other personal reasons could render a planned trip impossible. I noticed your age on an earlier post. We are somewhat older, are in a good retirement system, and don't want to leave all our money to our kids. Well perhaps to one kid who is a poor musician.

 

I don't believe you would disagree with the above, but your comments could be interpreted otherwise, i.e. "let us all say no and this will drive the price down." My no is an individual decision.

 

My wife and I have been fortunate in travel. I had two assignments in Europe while on the U. of A faculty, one for six months and the other for four months. These provided cost free trips. Since retirement we have taken many additional trips to Europe, and one lengthy one to the Orient in addition to a few cruises. If we want more travel, we need to go now.

 

As you can glean from my earlier post, I disagree with much of the tendency to place the blame for higher prices on the airlines and cruise companies. If they want to stay in business and reward their investors appropriately they must pass the higher oil prices along to the customers. The cruise lines have remained profitable and might survive for a few years without meeting costs. However, most airlines have lost money during most of the past few years. Note that several of the smaller airlines have recently gone into bankruptcy.

 

Like many others, I don't like to be "nickle and dimed" to death. I would rather just see the base price raised. None-the-less, the individual who flies with only carry on luggage would have a valid point in saying "Why do I have to pay as much as someone who checks luggage. That is more weight and it takes airline labor to load and unload it."

 

We probably have too many MBA marketing analysts these days making or suggesting marketing ploys. I hate it when something is sold for, say, $500, but you can get it for a net of $450 by sending in the $50 coupon. Sam Walton started his very successful Wal-Mart a few miles north of here without these analysts. I am afraid they are probably in Bentonville now however.

 

These types of posts always get to long, but, what the heck, it's fun. Incidentally, I have no desire whatever for a 50 inch TV screen. :D

 

Bob :cool:

[Gonzo70]

We don't have to pay through the nose, just because speculators in oil have driven the price through the roof. Just say "No!"

 

Unfortunately I think that speculators are only responsible for a small portion of the oil increase. The larger issue is that China and India are now consuming so much oil then just a few years ago that the demand for oil is exceeding the rate at which new oil reserves are being found. There is a limited supply of oil and world wide demand is skyrocketing. That is the larger reason oil has spiked and sadly it is one that does not have a short term solution.

[Susan-M]

Choices! Yes, we all have choices! We don't have to pay through the nose, just because speculators in oil have driven the price through the roof. Just say "No!"

 

We've said "no" to gas-guzzling vehicles for over 30 years...does that count?;)

 

Thankfully we do have choices, and the reason we won't be saying "no" to flying and cruising is because we enjoy travel and if we had to choose, we would rather spend money on travel than purchasing material items.

 

Some of our trips were great bargains and I am thankful for that and won't get too bent out of shape if I can't get those bargains right now. Yes, travel is more expensive and flying isn't as enjoyable, but we'll focus on the positives and realize that the destinations we choose are worth the expense and effort.:)

[usha]

We're not ready to say "no" to cruising just yet.

I'll tighten my belt lots in lots of other ways first, but I GOTTA cruise!:o

Just makes shopping for a cruise bargain a little more of a challenge.

[richsea]

This has been a very interesting thread, with many valid points being made. Each of us has his or her own values & priorities in life & must make our own choices. Where is our individual limit; where we say enough! That's for each of us to decide.

 

It's great to say "that costs too much - I'll wait til the price comes down & then take that trip I've wanted to take for years". On the other hand the dilemma is that this life is not a rehersal; it's the real thing; & one day you'll "wake up" dead & will have missed out on some great experiences because of a dollar.

[usha]

one day you'll "wake up" dead & will have missed out on some great experiences because of a dollar.

Yup, and you're dead for a long time...:o

[bobbyleduck]

Bobblsc: "You must have gone to school at Oregon State University. Aren't they the Ducks? :D"

 

You're just fooling with me now, but I'll bite! Oregon State: Beavers. The University of Oregon: Ducks!

 

Bobblsc: "One problem is, however, that when we just say "no" there may not be another opportunity to take that particular trip."

 

Time for that age old bit of economic wisdom I used to give my brothers and sister when they'd throw that same argument at me. I used to tell them they needed to save some money toward retirement, and they would counter with, "What happens to all your money if you retire and then die within six months?" My answer then, is the same as it is now. I know what happens after I die and I'm at peace with that, but what happens to you if you retire, have saved so little money and then live for 30 years? By the way, my saving all those years, allowed me to retire 11 years ago at the age of 42.

 

Bobblsc: "My wife and I have been fortunate in travel. I had two assignments in Europe while on the U. of A faculty, one for six months and the other for four months."

 

Now, that's something I can identify with. In my prior life (working for pay), my company took us on a number of trips (Hawaii, Las Vegas 3 times, New York (a week at the Waldorf-Astoria), and a week in Ireland.

 

Bobblsc: "These types of posts always get to long, but, what the heck, it's fun. Incidentally, I have no desire whatever for a 50 inch TV screen. :D"

 

Again, I have to believe you're just messing with me! The 50" TV, like the Spa, was just an example. Most of us have something we might want to have on a daily basis, that would be cheaper to buy than one round-trip flight or cruise. Even if we manage to do our traveling as inexpensively as possible.

 

Gonzo70: "Unfortunately I think that speculators are only responsible for a small portion of the oil increase."

 

I don't disagree with you completely, but I believe speculators represent about 35 percent of the recent run-up in oil prices. There are a lot of reasons for the additional run-up.

 

Susan-M: "We've said "no" to gas-guzzling vehicles for over 30 years...does that count?;)"

 

Yes! I'm still driving the 1984 Honda Accord I bought 12 1/2 years ago. It had 173,000 miles at the time and now it has about 286,000. It gets an average of 30+ miles per gallon, and I only paid $1,800 for it.

 

Susan-M: "Thankfully we do have choices,..."

 

I agree completely, which is why I end my posts with the following, "Happy cruising to all who can still afford to cruise!"

 

usha: "We're not ready to say "no" to cruising just yet."

 

Don't! I'm all for freedom of choice. If you can afford it, don't mind paying through the nose, and still get enough enjoyment out of the whole experience, then just go for it!

 

richsea: "Each of us has his or her own values & priorities in life & must make our own choices...On the other hand the dilemma is that this life is not a rehersal; it's the real thing; & one day you'll "wake up" dead & will have missed out on some great experiences because of a dollar."

 

Yes! Priorities are the decisions of life. I couldn't possibly agree with you more. On the other hand, regarding your last statement, see my earlier paragraph.

 

usha: "Yup, and you're dead for a long time...:o"

 

Yes! But, death is just part of the journey. I know you know that, because of what's at the end of each of your posts.

 

In the end, we all make choices and that's a good thing (all apologies to Martha Stewart). I'm of the belief that there is always another GOOD deal to be had, and I'm prepared to wait. If I miss the best opportunity, then so be it.

 

As always:

 

Happy cruising to all who can still afford to cruise!

 

Bob