HAL's tipping policy

[world~citizen]

Then that is the fault of HAL. They should make that clear. A "discreet" sign at the entrance, or something noted on the confirmation of your reservation stating that gratuity is not included needs to be communicated to passengers.

 

It is not my job to unearth HAL's tipping policies ... and determine who gets what and who I need to tip extra too. Rather that is HAL's place to see to it that I have whatever information I need in order to make wise tipping decisions when onboard.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

 

No the question of blame doesn't even enter into it. Its just about everyone understanding the policy. :)

 

Smooth sailing...

[Smitty962]

If you tip some people not at all (by that I mean remove yourself from the pool), you can't tip others the way you wish, because the money goes into a pool. So you may consider that your ability to tip as you wish is forfeit once you drop out of the pool. It is important that people understand that.

If you mean that by adjusting the daily service charge or removing it entirely that you can't tip individually, I think you are wrong. I don't think that if you handed your room steward or dining room steward or anybody else a cash tip that they would be compelled or foolish enough to put the cash into a pool. That's just not human nature.

[world~citizen]

If you mean that by adjusting the daily service charge or removing it entirely that you can't tip individually, I think you are wrong. I don't think that if you handed your room steward or dining room steward or anybody else a cash tip that they would be compelled or foolish enough to put the cash into a pool. That's just not human nature.

 

As I understand it, if you opt out of the daily charge, money you give to staff goes into a pool.

[kakalina]

If you mean that by adjusting the daily service charge or removing it entirely that you can't tip individually, I think you are wrong. I don't think that if you handed your room steward or dining room steward or anybody else a cash tip that they would be compelled or foolish enough to put the cash into a pool. That's just not human nature.

 

If they don't put the amount into the pool considered "normal" by their peers there will be some checking done. If a room steward is caught "hoarding" personal tips from someone who opted out of tipping they have just lost their job. It is a firing offense. The other room stewards will protect their jobs at all costs and will turn in someone who isn't putting in their tips.

[Opinions]

If you mean that by adjusting the daily service charge or removing it entirely that you can't tip individually, I think you are wrong. I don't think that if you handed your room steward or dining room steward or anybody else a cash tip that they would be compelled or foolish enough to put the cash into a pool. That's just not human nature.

 

I don't think it's human nature to risk losing your job for not putting the cash in the pool...If you are a room steward and the passengers you serve are removing the daily service charge, management and your fellow workers are going to wonder why...Particularly if you are not putting any cash tips in the pool.

[RevNeal]

If you mean that by adjusting the daily service charge or removing it entirely that you can't tip individually, I think you are wrong. I don't think that if you handed your room steward or dining room steward or anybody else a cash tip that they would be compelled or foolish enough to put the cash into a pool. That's just not human nature.

 

Why would you, or any passenger, want to put a steward into the position of lying to their superiors and to their fellow crew members? By virtue of their labor contract, as negotiated by their Union, they are required to pool the tips of passengers who have either removed the Service Charge or adjusted it down below $10 pp/pd. If a steward reneges on this, and are caught doing so, they become subject to discipline or even termination of employment. They're not going to risk that.

[Thrifty]

I seem to have lost the thread of this thread.

Someone seems to have said that a room steward would be fired for not reporting that another room steward didn't put all of the tips he was supposed to into the pool. How would anyone be able to show that the one who didn't report the offense knew of it? Did I misunderstand the post?

The suggestion that if a service charge is removed it must be the cabin steward's fault ignores the possibility that maybe the passenger didn't like the dining room service rather than the cabin service. With respect to the amounts the cabin steward might receive personally, I should think that in these days of autotipping, those amounts would be so irregular that it would be almost impossible to conclude that he was holding back, especially if he kicked in a few bucks on occasion.

[RevNeal]

I seem to have lost the thread of this thread.

Someone seems to have said that a room steward would be fired for not reporting that another room steward didn't put all of the tips he was supposed to into the pool.

 

It's far more likely that a room steward would be fired if they were caught not turning in all of the monies given to them as a tip from a passenger who had removed the Service Charge from their account. They would know which passengers have done this because they are given a list their passengers who have done so, so they can't claim ignorance.

 

How would anyone be able to show that the one who didn't report the offense knew of it? Did I misunderstand the post?

 

I think you misunderstood.

 

The suggestion that if a service charge is removed it must be the cabin steward's fault ignores the possibility that maybe the passenger didn't like the dining room service rather than the cabin service.

 

I can't imagine how you gathered that we're saying it's a cabin steward's fault ... it may be well be nobody's fault and just the cheapness of a passenger who doesn't want to tip.

 

With respect to the amounts the cabin steward might receive personally, I should think that in these days of autotipping, those amounts would be so irregular that it would be almost impossible to conclude that he was holding back, especially if he kicked in a few bucks on occasion.

 

If I'm a cabin steward and 3 of my cabins have removed the Service Charge from their onboard accounts, I receive a list of who they are. If those same cabins turn in stellar reviews of me, then I should have received tip monies reflecting those stellar reviews. If I only turn in $5 for each of those cabins for 7-days I would think that someone in the front office will become suspicious.

[cruz chic]

 

If I'm a cabin steward and 3 of my cabins have removed the Service Charge from their onboard accounts, I receive a list of who they are. If those same cabins turn in stellar reviews of me, then I should have received tip monies reflecting those stellar reviews. If I only turn in $5 for each of those cabins for 7-days I would think that someone in the front office will become suspicious.

 

I never thought about that but that is a good observation. Do you think HAL is able to actually put 2 and 2 together as they appear not to be able to at times:D .

[RevNeal]

I never thought about that but that is a good observation. Do you think HAL is able to actually put 2 and 2 together as they appear not to be able to at times:D .

 

:)

If it were HAL's shore-side corporate and administrative operations I would say "no." But we're talking about their ship-side operations. They do a better job there.

[cruz chic]

:)

If it were HAL's shore-side corporate and administrative operations I would say "no." But we're talking about their ship-side operations. They do a better job there.

It's good to know that. While I love HAL sometimes I wonder about the things they ask while on board. They seem so disorganized at times. That said, I'm a super organized person and I think I can be a bit of a hard marker.

[RevNeal]

It's good to know that. While I love HAL sometimes I wonder about the things they ask while on board. They seem so disorganized at times.

 

What sort of things might those be?

[cruz chic]

What sort of things might those be?

Well one thing that comes to mind it that wanted my air arrangements. They booked them. I asked why they wouldn't know that since they booked. They said in case there was last minite changes....hmmmm...wouldn't they know.

 

They seem disorganized with how many sailing dates I have. I seem to tell them several times on the same cruise. I got invited to the mariners brunch and then got called to say I was not invited to that one. I would be coming to the "special" one. Really it was the same as the other.

 

When I took my Panama Canal 20 day cruise in 2006 we still did not have our disembarkation information and luggage tags at 11 PM the night before we got off the ship. I only received mine at about 11:30 at night after I begged them at the front desk for them. Many folks did not get theirs till much later. I'm an early bird and was not pleased.

 

Some of these things are picky but there is a lot of them I can't recall. It seemed to get to me a one point and I just didn't want to cruise with them so I took a break for about 2 years from HAL. They are still my favorite (after a little break) but I have to say I like Princess quite a lot.

[Smitty962]

As I understand it, if you opt out of the daily charge, money you give to staff goes into a pool.

So you're saying that if you don't opt out of the daily service charge or change it, then you can additionally tip a staff member and they won't have to put it into a pool? That would seem to be a logistical nightmare for someone trying to keep track of this specially when you consider the number of staff and different passengers they interact with. I would think the cash tips would vary greatly amoungst different staff members and it would be quite hard to come up with a normal or average amount they would be expected to receive and therefore put into a pool. I think if they had to contribute to a tip pool it would be on an honour system, you'd need an accountant to sort out all the cash tips the staff receives, outside of the room steward and diningroom steward you can't possibly keep track of who may tip a staff member. If you tip the staff member at the Explorations Cafe in cash and no-one sees it I doubt it goes into any pool. I doubt they frisk all the staff at the end of every cruise to see how much cash they have. Anyway, the bottom line is that tipping is personal and you can do as much or as little as you wish and I really don't see any need for a thread on this board to rehash an issue that is purely subjective.:)

[kryos]

So you're saying that if you don't opt out of the daily service charge or change it, then you can additionally tip a staff member and they won't have to put it into a pool? That would seem to be a logistical nightmare for someone trying to keep track of this specially when you consider the number of staff and different passengers they interact with.

Exactly.

 

And that's why I don't believe for a minute that ANY staff is permitted to keep ANY cash tips they are handed. I believe EVERYTHING goes into the tip pool for that particular group (waiters in the dining room, cabin stewards, bar servers, etc.), and I don't believe for one minute the "line" HAL hands out to passengers about staff being able to pocket tips if you don't delete or reduce the auto-tips. It just doesn't make sense and it would require probably about three full-time employees just to keep track of.

 

So much easier to say "anyone caught pocketing a cash tip is outta here ... no exceptions!" than to deal with that administrative nightmare.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Opinions]

Exactly.

 

I believe EVERYTHING goes into the tip pool for that particular group (waiters in the dining room, cabin stewards, bar servers, etc.), and I don't believe for one minute the "line" HAL hands out to passengers about staff being able to pocket tips if you don't delete or reduce the auto-tips.

--rita

 

Do you have any evidence HAL is not telling the truth about this...I think one should be very careful and sure of their facts before accusing anyone of lying.

[kakalina]

Do you have any evidence HAL is not telling the truth about this...I think one should be very careful and sure of their facts before accusing anyone of lying.

 

I think you need to understand what you read a little better. Kryos did not say anyone was lying. She said she believes which is quite different from saying someone else is lying. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. It is not nice to call someone you don't know names and I for one don't appreicate it.

Rita is a well known and much respected member of this and other boards. You should be more careful of your facts.

[kryos]

Do you have any evidence HAL is not telling the truth about this...I think one should be very careful and sure of their facts before accusing anyone of lying.

 

Oh, please ... spare me.

 

I wouldn't necessarily call it "lying." Rather I would call it "putting the proper spin" on things.

 

If you honestly think about it, we as passengers shouldn't be concerned with how tips are distributed. Frankly, that's really none of our business. The point of the matter is that we received good service and we wish to tip something above-and-beyond the auto-tip, so we do. Whether or not our cabin steward has to turn that over to his tip pool really shouldn't concern us, rather it should concern him and if he has a problem with it, then he and his co-workers should be addressing that issue.

 

I know of many restaurants that pool tips. The employees have no problem with it because they know that if everyone works hard the pool from which to share will be bigger. They also know that they have supervisors and managers who will ensure that everyone is pulling their own weight and that any problems are immediately dealt with by providing additional training, counseling, or ... if necessary ... getting rid of non-performing employees.

 

So, no ... I don't think I am accusing HAL of lying ... I think it's more a matter of them trying to keep things simple for the passengers, rather than providing a detailed breakdown of every aspect of the tipping policy, which really shouldn't concern us any farther than knowing how our $10 per day auto-tip is distributed.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Opinions]

I think you need to understand what you read a little better. Kryos did not say anyone was lying. She said she believes which is quite different from saying someone else is lying. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. It is not nice to call someone you don't know names and I for one don't appreicate it.

Rita is a well known and much respected member of this and other boards. You should be more careful of your facts.

 

Perhaps you should take the time to actually read my post...Where did I call anyone a "name"...I don't appreciate being accused of calling someone a "name"...Please point out where I did...What "facts" in my post were wrong.

[RevNeal]

I don't believe for one minute the "line" HAL hands out to passengers about staff being able to pocket tips if you don't delete or reduce the auto-tips. It just doesn't make sense and it would require probably about three full-time employees just to keep track of.

 

Computer.

 

Later: Sorry ... I should have been more explicit. When the front office staff receive the request to remove the Service Charge from a passenger's account, they DO enter a notation on the ship's database. The Computer can easily have a subroutine written into it to filter through and notate which passengers in which cabins have done this and print out a list for the staff. In short, it wouldn't take any more staff members to do it.

[kakalina]

Computer.

 

Later: Sorry ... I should have been more explicit. When the front office staff receive the request to remove the Service Charge from a passenger's account, they DO enter a notation on the ship's database. The Computer can easily have a subroutine written into it to filter through and notate which passengers in which cabins have done this and print out a list for the staff. In short, it wouldn't take any more staff members to do it.

 

Greg, that is exactly what they do. The last evening on board a sheet is routed to the head housekeeper with a list of all pax that opt out of the auto tip. Copies are made and passed out to each and every cabin steward. They know beyond a doubt who didn't pay the auto tip and which pax personal tips they have to turn in.

 

They have no problem with the system as it stands right now I fail to understand why so many others want to make it their business. I mean would I ask you how much you made and what amount of it you got to keep before I drop some cash into your church basket.:eek: Of course not, income of any kind is personal. Not my business, not anyones business. My tips and I know your tips are based on service performed not on how much any one individual makes. Too may people worry way too much about what everyone else is doing instead of doing what feels right to them. JMO and now I am off my soap box and off this thread. :)

[RevNeal]

They have no problem with the system as it stands right now I fail to understand why so many others want to make it their business. I mean would I ask you how much you made and what amount of it you got to keep before I drop some cash into your church basket.:eek: Of course not, income of any kind is personal. Not my business, not anyones business.

 

<sigh>

Sadly, too many people DO think it's their business. Even on this board, I have been grilled by a few regarding my income as a pastor and how I can afford to cruise as often as I do on the pittance that a pastor is "supposed" to earn. And, this inquisitiveness is not just limited to me. We're a nosey bunch when it comes to what others earn, what others paid for a cruise, how much others tip, how much others spend in their onboard expenses, etc. It's not a wonder that we're also curious as to what the staff aboard ship makes, how much they collect in tips, etc. I tip based upon the value of goods services I have received and, yes, in-part based upon the "industry average." This means that I almost always personally add a tip, over and above the Service Charge, because in my opinion that 10 pp/pd is almost always not enough.

[world~citizen]

They have no problem with the system as it stands right now I fail to understand why so many others want to make it their business. ...My tips and I know your tips are based on service performed not on how much any one individual makes. Too may people worry way too much about what everyone else is doing instead of doing what feels right to them. JMO and now I am off my soap box and off this thread. :)

 

As the individual who began this thread, I feel it is necessary to reply to this notation.

 

When this thread began, one of the earliest posts, and perhaps more questioned the motives of the OP directly.

 

As I read through some of these threads, it became clear that there was no consensus on how gratuities are managed on HAL. As a result, there was a lot of misinformation being posted. That of course is not remarkable in itself, :eek: but there was a difference. Posters were confidently declaring that the "nominal fee" in the PG was surrendered to PG staff in the form of a gratuity. Some openly challenged those who disagreed, and did so in as aggressive a manner as is allowed by CC. Some of these posters contributed to this thread, in font size more appropriate to sky-writing than this board . If visitors to this site took that information as "gospel", then there would be every possibility that PG staff might not receive additional gratuities for extraordinary service based on erroneous information received on this board. As you can read from this thread, the news that the "nominal fee" was not a gratuity came as a surprise to some. I am certain that it would come as a surprise to many, as I have come to believe the view to be so pervasive as to be elevated to the status of urban legend - on HAL and other lines.

 

I noted a second theme running through the threads. The view that the $10pp/day fee could be eliminated, and pax could simply tip who they wished as much as they wished for service they felt deserving. In that way they felt good, and extraordinary service would be rewarded.

 

That also was misinformation. Pax who do this based on the advise/model encountered on these boards would not be rewarding the individual they designate in the way they believe. The best way to reward any individual for excellent service is to pay the $10pp/day fee, then tip the individual in addition. To tip the individual in the way suggested by some posters would actually decrease the gratuity he/she received. From reading this thread you can see that this reality too came as a surprise to some, as I believe it would come as a surprise to many.

 

So, I am delighted that the above referenced poster has no problem with the system as it stands now. The point of the thread is that a lot of people don't understand the system as it stands now, and maybe we as veteran cruisers, armed with the correct information, can note it to fellow passengers on ships should the question come up...and spread the correct policy on this board.

 

Taken together, hopefully, HAL serving staff will receive the gratuities that HAL pax mean for them to receive ... which is to answer the question of the motivation of this thread.

 

Now enquiring as to personal income is most often inappropriate. My feeling is that when people bring that question up in the context of the serving staff on a cruise ship, to other pax on ships and on these boards, it is in part to get a feel for the role that gratuities play in their renumeration. This is, after all, one of the most serious situations most people will encounter with respect to being up close and personal in a have and have-not situation - and people want to do the thing which is consistent with their principles. It is a consideration for some, it is not a consideration for others, but I would not question motivations of anyone who expressed interest or didn't express interest in this regard.

 

Smooth sailing.

[kryos]

Greg, that is exactly what they do. The last evening on board a sheet is routed to the head housekeeper with a list of all pax that opt out of the auto tip. Copies are made and passed out to each and every cabin steward. They know beyond a doubt who didn't pay the auto tip and which pax personal tips they have to turn in.

Okay, but what about those passengers who don't remove auto-tips until the morning of disembarkation, or those passengers who choose to slide their cabin steward a bill during the cruise ... perhaps for some service rendered ... and then only later removes the auto-tips?

 

But truthfully, I am in 100% agreement with you. It's none of my "dammed" business how the HAL employees divy up their tips. That's their policy, their issue, and their problem if they don't like it. They have to deal with their managers and fight their battles in this regard. I only know that I tipped an additional $20. Where that $20 goes once it leaves my hand and goes into the pocket of my cabin steward is of no concern to me. I know I tipped, and that's all I have to know. My conscious is clear because I did what I was motivated to do based upon the service I received. What happens to that $20 is now of absolutely no concern to me at all, and in fact, it shouldn't be.

 

I like your comparison to the church basket too. Good point. When we throw something in the basket (or the tithe box, or whatever) we trust that the church is using good stewardship principles to make sure that money goes to good use. But, other than that ... it's of no concern whatsoever to me how they choose to put it to use. If I support the church, then a certain degree of trust goes along with that ... trust that the church is seeing to it that my money is money well invested in the kingdom. The details I don't need to know about.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

<sigh>

Sadly, too many people DO think it's their business. Even on this board, I have been grilled by a few regarding my income as a pastor and how I can afford to cruise as often as I do on the pittance that a pastor is "supposed" to earn.

You need to tell those people to mind their own business.

 

Even in the catholic church ... I have met some very well-to-do priests. Priests do NOT have to take a vow of poverty, as do the nuns, and thus some have come into considerable wealth over the years, mainly in the form of having money left to them by family members and other parishioners they have served over the years. Since those priests are not under any obligation to turn that money over to the church (as the nuns are), some of them enjoy pretty good lifestyles with their accumulated wealth ... and to be honest, that's none of my concern.

 

So next time someone has the gall to ask you where you get the money for your cruises, I'd kindly suggest that they ought to be attending to the stewardship of their own assets, rather than worrying about your's.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita