HAL's tipping policy

[world~citizen]

The more I read these boards, the more I realize how little consensus there is here on how gratuities are distributed on HAL!

 

The $10 pp/day seems straightforward enough - but there is debate even on that! With the new alternate dining rooms though, how do the gratuities actually work?

 

Also, wouldn't it be interesting to really know how much the different kinds of serving staff on board are are paid? It may change people's attitudes when it comes time to offer thanks for the truly wonderful service they receive throughout their holiday.

[kakalina]

No. I don't think it makes one iota of difference where the service charge goes. HAL thinks this is the right amount and HAL distributes it as they see fit and proper. It is not my business once I pay it where it goes.

If I feel someone deserves something above and beyond what HAL deems appropriate I will tip them extra.

[cf_chuck]

Out of simple curiosity, I would be interested in how things get distributed. But, there are a number of lines that provide recommended tipping guidelines that roughly map to the HAL charge of 10/p/d.

 

One thing that is more significant to me is whether "above and beyond" tips get pooled. I typically give a bit more than the standard charge when I receive service that deserves recognition.

 

IMO, the standard charge is very reasonable. If I went to a restaurant and was served with a 4 (or more) course dinner of the quality of HAL, I would drop more than 10 per person just for the tip. I like the standard charge.

[kakalina]

Above and beyond tips are only pooled if the giver chose to opt out of the auto tip.

[CowPrincess]

Has anyone ever e-mailed HAL and asked about distribution of the auto-tip and any "rules" they have regarding cash tips given over and above the auto-tip? Or are we all just sitting here speculating?

[world~citizen]

No. I don't think it makes one iota of difference where the service charge goes. HAL thinks this is the right amount and HAL distributes it as they see fit and proper. It is not my business once I pay it where it goes.

If I feel someone deserves something above and beyond what HAL deems appropriate I will tip them extra.

 

The breakdown for the $10pp/day fee seems to be something negotiated between the staff and HAL management (not distributed as HAL thinks fit and proper). I say it seems to be. Therefore I agree with you, it is not our place to second guess those arrangements.

 

Problems arise when some people think that the $20 PG fee, or other alternate dining room fee is distributed to staff and some think it goes to HAL. On the basis of this they make decisions with respect to providing a specific tip for their PG waiter or not.

 

Other problems arise if people choose not to pay the daily fee. They may not realize they forfeit the right to tip good performing serving staff very well, as they will have to return that gratuity to the pool which you chose not to contribute to.

 

So people need to know the rules of the game. They need to know that the alternate dining room staff does not get the PG fee. They need to know the ramifications of opting out of the pool with respect to the tip for the people they do want to offer gratuities to. If they want to tip a member of the serving staff for exceptional service, it can only be done in context of staying in the pool, and perhaps by assigning an additional gratuity to that staff member by adjusting their tip at the front office.

 

It also might make a difference with respect to the decision pax make to give someone an additional tip, or withdraw from the pool completely if they had a notion of what the pooled tips mean to the serving staff in real dollars on each cruise. If a gratuity is a payment assessed against service, how will we know if we are under-tipping a staff member (by our own standards) if we don't know what our tip is in the first place? To read the comments of some CCers, the PG waiters are making out like bandits under the formula and justify non-tipping.

 

I think a little more information all around is a good thing.

[GmaPajama]

In my opinion, knowing what wages are paid to HAL employees would be of no benefit to us in considering extra tipping. Dollars go further in some countries than in others. Last year I sent $25 to a pen pal in Ghana, and she said she bought enough rice with it to feed her whole family for a year. On the other hand, $25 will feed a family for only 2 days here in the US - less for many families.

 

Besides - we think of a person's salary as a very private thing, and really don't want to know.

 

Donna

[world~citizen]

Has anyone ever e-mailed HAL and asked about distribution of the auto-tip and any "rules" they have regarding cash tips given over and above the auto-tip? Or are we all just sitting here speculating?

 

I called HAL and the above is my interpretation of the HAL reps understanding of the policy. I agree, and will send an email to HAL and ask for clarification of some questions.

 

I am not upset here, I would just like all cruisers to be on the same page with respect to understanding the policy.

[world~citizen]

In my opinion, knowing what wages are paid to HAL employees would be of no benefit to us in considering extra tipping. Dollars go further in some countries than in others. Last year I sent $25 to a pen pal in Ghana, and she said she bought enough rice with it to feed her whole family for a year. On the other hand, $25 will feed a family for only 2 days here in the US - less for many families.

 

Besides - we think of a person's salary as a very private thing, and really don't want to know.

 

Donna

 

There is something to this. I'm not sure. What I feel very comfortable with is an idea, even a ballpark one, of how much money actually gets to them as a result of the formula. That is not salary, that is gratuity, and it is a different thing.

[GmaPajama]

That is not salary, that is gratuity, and it is a different thing.

 

You're right, of course. I re-read your original post and I see now that you are talking about the auto-tips, not salary. This is the line that led me astray

Also, wouldn't it be interesting to really know how much the different kinds of serving staff on board are are paid?

 

There IS a specific dollar breakdown of the $10 per person per day - I've seen it posted here before. It seemed somewhat inadequate, considering the hard work and long hours. We make it a point to tip extra to some of the more "hidden" crew. Like the guy who spends hours and hours polishing brass. It's fun to see the surprise on their faces when we hand them an envelope.

 

Sorry I misunderstood your original post.

 

Donna

[Jade13]

The more I read these boards, the more I realize how little consensus there is here on how gratuities are distributed on HAL!

 

The $10 pp/day seems straightforward enough - but there is debate even on that! With the new alternate dining rooms though, how do the gratuities actually work?

 

Also, wouldn't it be interesting to really know how much the different kinds of serving staff on board are are paid? It may change people's attitudes when it comes time to offer thanks for the truly wonderful service they receive throughout their holiday.

 

There is a breakdown. It is either on the web site or given out on the cruise. When we went to the disembarkation lecture last year, the CD just asked that everyone give the recommended amount. He never mentioned "Extra" (although we always do that in cash). So, they feel the $10.00 is a fare amount and have worked out the amount. We did not go to the PG last year, but I'm sure some of the pooled amount goes to those waiters or why would they take that position over the main dining room where as a waiter they get a percentage.

[world~citizen]

There is a breakdown. It is either on the web site or given out on the cruise. When we went to the disembarkation lecture last year, the CD just asked that everyone give the recommended amount. He never mentioned "Extra" (although we always do that in cash). So, they feel the $10.00 is a fare amount and have worked out the amount. We did not go to the PG last year, but I'm sure some of the pooled amount goes to those waiters or why would they take that position over the main dining room where as a waiter they get a percentage.

 

First of all, you have to go to the PG every time !:)

 

I love that restaurant. The problem is you have to leave your table-mates to go there. The food and service has always been, well, a treat for us.

 

Getting back on track, yes they are in the pool. The best way I think to tip them is to do it at the front office, because they not only get the gratuity they deserve, but it is on record that customers are grateful for their superior service...so you get a double bang for your buck, and so do your servers. Cash is certainly no problem as long as you stay in the pool.

 

The breakdown that you refer to bothers me, because it does not serve the serving staff well. I don't mind putting my head right on the guillotine here and say flat out I am tired of people looking for excuses to justify tip avoidance. A clear understanding of how tips work might help. The CD you refer to is just another example of the problem.

[world~citizen]

You're right, of course. I re-read your original post and I see now that you are talking about the auto-tips, not salary. This is the line that led me astray

 

There IS a specific dollar breakdown of the $10 per person per day - I've seen it posted here before. It seemed somewhat inadequate, considering the hard work and long hours. We make it a point to tip extra to some of the more "hidden" crew. Like the guy who spends hours and hours polishing brass. It's fun to see the surprise on their faces when we hand them an envelope.

 

Sorry I misunderstood your original post.

 

Donna

 

Don't blame yourself if I express myself poorly.

[InTheWASide]

The breakdown our CD gave on the Westerdam last week was as follows, based on one person's $10 for that day...

 

$3.50 to the room stewards

$3.50 to the dining stewards

$3.00 to the "HAL Family Fund" which is the behind the scenes folks. Laundry and so forth

 

He also specifically said anything above and beyond that goes straight to that person.

 

This was in his disembarkation talk and that was repeated on channel 26 on the ship the entire final day and through the morning of disembark.

[RuthC]

I leave the service charge intact, and tip extra to those who have served me well.

How much any individual gets from that service charge, how much others do or don't tip, whether or not others remove the service charge or add to it---all of that is none of my business.

 

I leave the ship feeling I have done well by those who have done well to me. That's all I need to know.

[hammybee]

No. I don't think it makes one iota of difference where the service charge goes. HAL thinks this is the right amount and HAL distributes it as they see fit and proper. It is not my business once I pay it where it goes.

If I feel someone deserves something above and beyond what HAL deems appropriate I will tip them extra.

 

This is my position too.

 

Most land restaurants in the U.S. either require tips to be pooled or require wait staff to "tip out" a percentage of each check, regardless if they received a tip, or not.

 

The disposition of any tip/ service charge and/or the policies of a restaurant/cruise ship are none of my business.

[world~citizen]

 

The disposition of any tip/ service charge and/or the policies of a restaurant/cruise ship are none of my business.

 

Well, Hammybee, if you don't additionally tip in the PG because you mistakenly believe the $20 fee is a gratuity, it is a shame for the PG staff and an error on your part. So, of course you need to understand how the tipping policy works.

[rochelle_s]

Just back from 12 days on the Ryndam followed by 14 days on the Zaandam. I learned a few things regarding tipping, etc. and thought I would share.

 

I was told by a bartender that they recieve room and board and are paid $50.00 per month as a salary. The rest of their income is derived from the automatic 15% that is added to drinks. I do not know the exact policy for other positions.

 

From what I understand the gratuity that is added on to the sale of a cocktail, wine or soda card goes to the person who sells the card. This might explain why some feel that the cards are 'pushed' in the first couple of days or why it is only possible to purchase a wine card in either the main restaurant or the Lido.

 

As for additional cash gratuities these are pooled among those in the same area. As an example, the cocktail servers in the Ocean's Bar would pool and share their tips. The same is true for bartenders who share a bar.

 

My Zaandam trip was a b2b and these people all rotated areas throughout the ship after the first week in order that everyone would have an equal opportunity to work a busier area at some time. As I recall, I was told it was a six week rotation system.

 

From what I gathered in my chatting with the staff is that they were quite pleased with this system of rotation and pooling as they felt it was the most fair and gave everyone an equal opportunity to work a busy area or make a little extra. Some weeks the pooling would reduce the amount they were personally handed in 'extra' tips, others they would increase. I gathered it balanced itself out.

 

I would never dream of removing the auto gratuity ( unless for some extreme circumstance of consistent poor service...but this has never happened and I hope never will). I did have with me my own humourous cards and envelopes that I used to distribute a little something extra. My envelopes included cash (of varying amounts) which I was well aware would be pooled, a phone card which I knew they could keep for their personal use and did not have to share and in many a photograph.

 

Now I know some of you are thinking I must be the crazy lady who gives out photographs of myself to the crew. Let me make it clear I am NOT that person. I took pictures during the crew shows, made a detour to Walmart in Ketchikan and printed the relevant pictures there. It seemed to me that the crew really enjoyed getting a picture or two of themselves in the show, which I thought they could send home to their family or whatever.

 

One family I met onboard even went 'behind the scenes' to the kitchen staff and handed out $20.00 bills. They said the expression on those folks faces was priceless!

 

In my opinion auto tips should remain in place. Tipping above and beyond is a personal choice. Gratuities are how these folks make their living and I believe they do well by it otherwise they would not stay in the industry. I was fortunate enough to get to know quite a few of the staff and found it fascinating that the vast majority of dining and cabin stewards are university educated but choose to work on a cruise ship in what some might consider menial positions because they can make more doing so, whereas in their home countries for example an engineer would almost always make considerably less. Every cocktail waitress I met had small children at home. Many raising thier children as single mothers with help from their families. In their home countries there is no avenues or laws to help them go after their husbands for child support. Education costs, even at the grade school level. There are very good reasons why those who work on cruise ships do so. They sacrifice a great deal to be away from their families. They work long hard hours every day, doing 10 and 11 month contracts without a day off.

 

We should all be grateful for the countries we live in and the fact that we are lucky to be able to cruise and to recieve such friendly and attentive service from people I consider to be quite amazing in the jobs they do and the way they do it. I highly recommend getting to know these folks on your next cruise. All this has been just been 'my two cents' but you might want to keep it in mind the next time you are making your personal choice regarding 'a little something extra'.

 

Those are my thoughts on the matter,

 

Rochelle

[world~citizen]

I leave the service charge intact, and tip extra to those who have served me well.

 

How many pax even realize you can't tip extra unless you leave the service charge intact?

 

How much any individual gets from that service charge, how much others do or don't tip, whether or not others remove the service charge or add to it---all of that is none of my business.

 

Some pax erroneously believe the $20 PG fee is service charge (gratuity). If pax knew how much gratuity the server actually received, (and from where it doesn't come from in this example), they might wish to adjust their tip, or tip where they previously might not have. This is better for the serving staff, and better for the pax.

 

I leave the ship feeling I have done well by those who have done well to me. That's all I need to know.

 

Fair comment...as long that good feeling a pax has is based on accurate rather than mistaken knowledge of how the gratuity structure works.

 

Smooth sailing to you.

[world~citizen]

Just back from 12 days on the Ryndam ...All this has been just been 'my two cents' but you might want to keep it in mind the next time you are making your personal choice regarding 'a little something extra'.

 

Those are my thoughts on the matter,

 

Rochelle

 

I think this is the nicest post I have ever read.

 

Smooth sailing to you.

[Smitty962]

Well, Hammybee, if you don't additionally tip in the PG because you mistakenly believe the $20 fee is a gratuity, it is a shame for the PG staff and an error on your part. So, of course you need to understand how the tipping policy works.

I don't see anywhere that Hammybee wrote that says she believes the $20 fee is a gratuity or that she doesn't additionally tip in the PG or anywhere else for that matter. What I find curious is that you seem to have all this time to start a thread to admonish people who may or may not tip over and above the daily service charge. Firstly, it's none of your business who does or doesn't tip or whether they adjust their daily service charge. You should just tip as much as makes you happy with yourself and not try and take on the role of the HAL tipping police. I believe your comment to Hammybee is out of line. Just my opinion, of course.

[world~citizen]

..I believe your comment to Hammybee is out of line. Just my opinion, of course.

 

And you are entitled to it. :)

 

Hammybee's point was that the policy of the the cruise line with respect to tips was none of her business. My response was IF she (were to) tip based on a misunderstanding of the policy, and chose not to tip as a result of the misunderstanding then that would be an error and a shame. So at least to that extent, she may consider that an understanding of the policy would be her business.

 

I didn't say that SHE said the $20 fee was a gratuity. The point here is that some pax don't tip in the PG because they think that the fee is a tip...a view held in error as is evidenced in these boards. The error can be addressed by understanding the HAL gratuity policy.

 

So my comments to Hammybee are neither accusatory or offensive. :)

 

Now, the purpose of this thread is to promote an understanding of the way the tipping policy actually works, as a pax decision respecting when and where they may wish to tip is based on that policy.

 

And if I may be permitted to express my opinion, I have noted that most people have no problems with the 10pp/day fee on a three day cruise to nowhere, but comes a 21 day cruise after all is said and done and facing a $420 tip, I have seen creativity flow to justify a flat $20 tip. That in my view - in my opinion - is unfortunate.

 

If people on this boards can express outright indignation at the "obligation" to pay the $10pp/day gratuity, I think it fair to start a thread to at the very least promote an accurate understanding of how the tipping policy actually works so that a decision to tip or not to tip is based on the facts of the policy, and not erroneous assumptions that staff is receiving gratuities when they actually are not.

 

Something that you say proves the need for a thread like this: ...You should just tip as much as makes you happy with yourself and not try and take on the role of the HAL tipping police.

 

If you tip some people not at all (by that I mean remove yourself from the pool), you can't tip others the way you wish, because the money goes into a pool. So you may consider that your ability to tip as you wish is forfeit once you drop out of the pool. It is important that people understand that.

 

Thank-you for your measured and thoughtful observations.

 

Smooth sailing to you

[GeriatricNurse]

The breakdown for the $10pp/day fee seems to be something negotiated between the staff and HAL management (not distributed as HAL thinks fit and proper). I say it seems to be. Therefore I agree with you, it is not our place to second guess those arrangements.

 

Problems arise when some people think that the $20 PG fee, or other alternate dining room fee is distributed to staff and some think it goes to HAL. On the basis of this they make decisions with respect to providing a specific tip for their PG waiter or not.

 

Other problems arise if people choose not to pay the daily fee. They may not realize they forfeit the right to tip good performing serving staff very well, as they will have to return that gratuity to the pool which you chose not to contribute to.

So people need to know the rules of the game. They need to know that the alternate dining room staff does not get the PG fee. They need to know the ramifications of opting out of the pool with respect to the tip for the people they do want to offer gratuities to. If they want to tip a member of the serving staff for exceptional service, it can only be done in context of staying in the pool, and perhaps by assigning an additional gratuity to that staff member by adjusting their tip at the front office.

 

It also might make a difference with respect to the decision pax make to give someone an additional tip, or withdraw from the pool completely if they had a notion of what the pooled tips mean to the serving staff in real dollars on each cruise. If a gratuity is a payment assessed against service, how will we know if we are under-tipping a staff member (by our own standards) if we don't know what our tip is in the first place? To read the comments of some CCers, the PG waiters are making out like bandits under the formula and justify non-tipping.

 

I think a little more information all around is a good thing.

Yes, the alternative dining room staff DO get the PG fee (service charge)(gratuity)!!!

[GeriatricNurse]

Well, Hammybee, if you don't additionally tip in the PG because you mistakenly believe the $20 fee is a gratuity, it is a shame for the PG staff and an error on your part. So, of course you need to understand how the tipping policy works.

YOU are the one who mistakenly believes that the $20 fee is NOT a gratuity!!!

[world~citizen]

Yes, the alternative dining room staff DO get the PG fee (service charge)(gratuity)!!!

 

That is interesting. I spoke to HAL yesterday after reading your post to that effect and the interpretation of the representative on the phone was that this is not the case.

 

This demonstrates what I have noted, that there is a lot of ambiguity with respect to the HAL gratuity policy.

 

Can you please tell me the source reference that you have that confirms this, because I believe that would be a fair policy, and I would be delighted if it were true. Also, maybe we could put that part of the issue "to bed" so to speak.