HAL's tipping policy

[RevNeal]

You need to tell those people to mind their own business.

 

Even in the catholic church ... I have met some very well-to-do priests. Priests do NOT have to take a vow of poverty, as do the nuns, and thus some have come into considerable wealth over the years, mainly in the form of having money left to them by family members and other parishioners they have served over the years. Since those priests are not under any obligation to turn that money over to the church (as the nuns are), some of them enjoy pretty good lifestyles with their accumulated wealth ... and to be honest, that's none of my concern.

 

So next time someone has the gall to ask you where you get the money for your cruises, I'd kindly suggest that they ought to be attending to the stewardship of their own assets, rather than worrying about your's.

 

Thank you, Rita. And, indeed, that is pretty much what I've told them to do when they've had the gall to ask. Well ... I've been polite about it, but that's been my general approach. However, my life is no secret. I'm not wealthy by North American standards; however, neither am I poor. I've been in the ministry for 18 -- going on 19 -- years and have earned BA, M.Div, and Ph.D degrees in theology. I'm not only the senior pastor of a church of 590 members with an associate pastor to assist me, I'm also a Professor of Theology which provides further supplemental income. I'm not married, I don't have any children, I don't own fancy cars or have to pay for a big house; I don't have many expensive hobbies nor other expenses/activities that call forth a huge percentage of my income ... I just love to cruise. :D

[world~citizen]

Thank you, Rita. And, indeed, that is pretty much what I've told them to do when they've had the gall to ask. Well ... I've been polite about it, but that's been my general approach. However, my life is no secret. I'm not wealthy by North American standards; however, neither am I poor. I've been in the ministry for 18 -- going on 19 -- years and have earned BA, M.Div, and Ph.D degrees in theology. I'm not only the senior pastor of a church of 590 members with an associate pastor to assist me, I'm also a Professor of Theology which provides further supplemental income. I'm not married, I don't have any children, I don't own fancy cars or have to pay for a big house; I don't have many expensive hobbies nor other expenses/activities that call forth a huge percentage of my income ... I just love to cruise. :D

 

Almost Chaucer's ideal student - willing to teach and willing to learn!!:D

 

I think people consider that the lives of those in the various ministries, elected representatives and public servants should be an open book to be inspected at their leisure.:eek:

[RevNeal]

Almost Chaucer's ideal student - willing to teach and willing to learn!!:D

 

I think people consider that the lives of those in the various ministries, elected representatives and public servants should be an open book to be inspected at their leisure.:eek:

 

:D

That's about right. I've long grown used to it.

[Thrifty]

Why would you, or any passenger, want to put a steward into the position of lying to their superiors and to their fellow crew members? By virtue of their labor contract, as negotiated by their Union, they are required to pool the tips of passengers who have either removed the Service Charge or adjusted it down below $10 pp/pd. If a steward reneges on this, and are caught doing so, they become subject to discipline or even termination of employment. They're not going to risk that. RevNeal

 

Rev. Neal: You seem to be saying that you think that all of the recipients of tips from anyone who adjusted the autotipping amount do disgorge those moneys into the pool. My experience of human nature is somewhere between yours (which seems to me very optimistic) and Smitty962's (which seems to me very pessimistic.) However, I think that he's probably closer than you are.

[RevNeal]

Rev. Neal: You seem to be saying that you think that all of the recipients of tips from anyone who adjusted the autotipping amount do disgorge those moneys into the pool. My experience of human nature is somewhere between yours (which seems to me very optimistic) and Smitty962's (which seems to me very pessimistic.) However, I think that he's probably closer than you are.

 

I am not a Pollyanna, if that's what you're suggesting. I am well aware of the power of human sin, I've been the target of it on multiple occasions as well as being a sinner in my own right. However, in this case I do not believe that a large percentage of HAL staffers are cheating and are just not getting caught. Rather, I don't believe that there are high numbers of cheaters.

 

Given: (1) the nature of their employment; (2) the trust-factor which is involved in this form of work; (3)the time spent in obtaining specialized training (inclusive of linguistic training) for the execution of the job; (4) the HIGH financial value of their employment in their society; (5) the personal sacrifice in terms of time spent away from families that the employment involves; (6) and the effort involved in actually obtaining that employment, I seriously doubt that a large percentage of HAL staffers will risk it all in order to garner a few extra dollars in tip monies.

[kryos]

Perhaps you should take the time to actually read my post...Where did I call anyone a "name"...I don't appreciate being accused of calling someone a "name"...Please point out where I did...What "facts" in my post were wrong.

 

"I think one should be very careful and sure of their facts before accusing anyone of lying."

 

In effect you said that I accused HAL of lying, which I certainly did not.

 

Look, what say we all just agree to disagree on this issue. It's not worth getting our blood pressure up over.

 

My simple assertion is that it really shouldn't concern any of us how the waiters, cabin stewards, bar people, etc., divy their tips. That's their business and not ours. I can only speak from the point of view of a business person who has implemented many a policy in my time, and I know that whenever any new policy or procedure is being considered, we look for the way to make it as easy as possible to implement. If it is gonna involve a bunch of red tape or hoops that we have to jump through, then it's not worth it. I cannot imagine that HAL would want to get involved in determining where the money goes every single time an employee is handed a rolled up bill by a passenger. Did that passenger auto-tip? Can the employee pocket the tip? Does he have to turn it in?

 

True a computer can determine who auto-tipped and who didn't ... but that determination can't be made with 100% accuracy until after the passengers have debarked the ship. So, how do you control the less than honest cabin steward who got a hundred dollar tip from a particular cabin because they cut off their auto-tip, but now says that it came from the cabin across the hall? How do you control the waiter who makes an honest mistake and pockets a tip that should have been shared?

 

When someone holds back a cash tip that should be pooled, I would imagine it creates bad feelings among one's co-workers. In effect, that person is taking money out of their pockets if he pockets a tip that policy says should be shared. So, just from my own perspective as a business person, I know that I would find it a lot easier to manage a tipping policy that did not allow for ANY tips to be pocketed. Much easier to have ALL tips going into the pool for that particular type of service person (cabin stewards, waiters, etc.) This way I am less likely to have morale issues with other employees who claim that Joe over there pocketed the money cabin 2531 gave him when they removed their auto-tip, while Joe is claiming that tip came from cabin 2533 nextdoor, a cabin where auto-tips were kept in place. Even if Joe is proven wrong in this case, it will be hard to discipline Joe because he could claim that he just made an honest mistake.

 

If ALL tips have to be turned in, however, now Joe has no excuse. If he's caught pocketing tips (a very easy thing to set up and test), then Joe is history ... plain and simple ... and the rest of my employees are happy again.

 

That's the only reason I say that I believe HAL does not necessarily tell us every detail of the tipping policy ... not because they are lying but rather because, frankly, do we really need to know ... and even more importantly, should we really even care?

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kenish]

I'm not married, I don't have any children, I don't own fancy cars or have to pay for a big house; I don't have many expensive hobbies nor other expenses/activities that call forth a huge percentage of my income ... I just love to cruise. :D

 

It's not what you make, it's what you keep. A great tool in this situation to turn the conversation onto the questioner! :D

[BumperII]

I just read this thread from the O P. I am amazed.

We just completed a b2b on the Maasdam Canada - New England cruise. Yep, we were awared the Copper medal. We have 110 days since we first cruised HAL in December of 2005.

For every one of those 110 days, our cabin stewards and dining stewards have bent over backwards to make sure we had a good time. It seems to me that there is almost nothing they won't do to try to entertain and to please us. Actually, they have spoiled us rotten. Thanks to these folks, we have booked three more cruises on HAL in the next year.

Now, let me make another point. During our first cruise in 2005, the hotel service charge was $10 per person per day. It is still $10 per person per day. Our stewards haven't recieved an increase in two and a half years.

From day one we have understood the tipping game with sedan drivers, sky caps, and waiters. It is part of the cost of doing business as well as a part of creating good will.

Tipping threads abound on this board and one has to wonder what the motivation of some posters really is. For us it is simply that a man is worthy of his hire. Having heard all the opinions here, it will remain our practice to leave the hotel service charge alone, just part of the competitive marketing nonsense.

As to our stewards, these folks knock themselves out for us and they deserve every dime they get. We will continue to leave our stewards an appropriate amount over and above that so called service charge. We feel that they have earned it and we simply regard it as a fair exchange for the service rendered to us.

[RevNeal]

It's not what you make, it's what you keep. A great tool in this situation to turn the conversation onto the questioner! :D

 

Not a bad thought.

John Wesley once said: "Earn all you can, save all you can, give all you can."

[Thrifty]

I'm doubtful of the proposition that passengers shouldn't concern themselves with what happens to their tips after they leave the the passengers' hands.

On one hand, it can be argued that, if one gives something to some one else, it becomes the recipient's property to do with as he or she pleases. If the recipients have agreed, more or less voluntarily, to share their tips with their fellow workers, that's up to them.

On the other hand, people donate money all the time with restrictions to see that the money is devoted to the donor's purpose.

I expect that passengers vary in to which of those two attitudes they subscribe.

Some time ago, my wife and I were fortunate enough on a cruise to be served for two weeks by the best waiter we have ever encountered on land or sea. At the end, I tipped him very generously, in addition to his pool share. He more than earned it.

He expressed no appreciation whatsoever, which surprised me, but I attributed it at the time to his dignity matching my mild embarrassment at the transfer of money. But now I wonder if maybe it wasn't because he was only going to get a tiny share of the money anyway. (I'm aware that on some lines the waiters can keep "additional tips," but I don't know what they do on that line.)

As mentioned above, I don't take any pleasure in the actual "presentation of the money," but I do take pleasure in rewarding exceptional service; doing it anonymously if the staff had individual tip jars would be even better. Handing a bunch of money to the purser to distribute as someone or other sees fit just doesn't arouse my enthusiasm to the same extent.

I personally feel that I have a right to interest myself in where my donations go. I don't necessarily expect anyone else to feel the same way.

[world~citizen]

I just read this thread from the O P. I am amazed.

 

We just completed a b2b on the Maasdam Canada - New England cruise. Yep, we were awared the Copper medal. We have 110 days since we first cruised HAL in December of 2005.

 

For every one of those 110 days, our cabin stewards and dining stewards have bent over backwards to make sure we had a good time. It seems to me that there is almost nothing they won't do to try to entertain and to please us. Actually, they have spoiled us rotten. Thanks to these folks, we have booked three more cruises on HAL in the next year.

 

Now, let me make another point. During our first cruise in 2005, the hotel service charge was $10 per person per day. It is still $10 per person per day. Our stewards haven't recieved an increase in two and a half years.

 

From day one we have understood the tipping game with sedan drivers, sky caps, and waiters. It is part of the cost of doing business as well as a part of creating good will.

 

Tipping threads abound on this board and one has to wonder what the motivation of some posters really is. For us it is simply that a man is worthy of his hire. Having heard all the opinions here, it will remain our practice to leave the hotel service charge alone, just part of the competitive marketing nonsense.

 

As to our stewards, these folks knock themselves out for us and they deserve every dime they get. We will continue to leave our stewards an appropriate amount over and above that so called service charge. We feel that they have earned it and we simply regard it as a fair exchange for the service rendered to us.

 

A very thoughtful post.

[cf_chuck]

I personally feel that I have a right to interest myself in where my donations go. I don't necessarily expect anyone else to feel the same way.

 

 

While I would be interested to know where the extra tips go, I feel that I've done my part by acknowledging the service and "putting the money where the mouth is."

 

Just a tip (pun intended), for those that do add something extra to the standard service amount, I suggest that they include a brief note stating that this is "extra" and not a substitute for what is held since we all have the option of opting out of the service charge.

[Jade13]

 

My simple assertion is that it really shouldn't concern any of us how the waiters, cabin stewards, bar people, etc., divy their tips. That's their business and not ours.

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

 

Rita, I agree.

 

And here is another point I have not seen mentioned. Once you give someone a gift (the tip), it is theirs to do with as they wish. Why should we care if they keep it or put it into an employee pool? Perhaps they have a party fund which I know is done on many smaller ships.

 

Btw, when I was in the Galapagos, we were told to put any money in a box and that it would be shared. We did stuff the recommended amount (a couple hundred in cash as I remember) but it was done totally anonand to be divided up. Most of the ship was not American but European where tipping is not common so I am sure a number of pax didn't give anything or very little. But again, the money was not direct to our "Butler".

[dancermom]

Hi all,

My son has worked on cruise ships (with several lines) for many years...never in a position that accepted gratuities. He has always refused to discuss with me the intricacies of the various tipping systems. He has however always emphasized the importance of the comment cards and implied that high praise was rewarded generously by the cruise line in the way that matters...PROMOTIONS and peer and head office recognition. Working hard as a member of a team benefits the entire team. So keep recognizing excellence in what ever way you wish but PLEASE complete the comment cards and provide the names of those who provided such wonderful service.

Deb

[world~citizen]

Hi all,

My son has worked on cruise ships (with several lines) for many years...never in a position that accepted gratuities. He has always refused to discuss with me the intricacies of the various tipping systems. He has however always emphasized the importance of the comment cards and implied that high praise was rewarded generously by the cruise line in the way that matters...PROMOTIONS and peer and head office recognition. Working hard as a member of a team benefits the entire team. So keep recognizing excellence in what ever way you wish but PLEASE complete the comment cards and provide the names of those who provided such wonderful service.

Deb

 

That is a very good point, and it hasn't been brought up. Good service can be rewarded and it doesn't cost a dime. A few moments of your time can make a big difference, and in ways we will never know.:)

 

Smooth sailing...

[kryos]

Btw, when I was in the Galapagos, we were told to put any money in a box and that it would be shared.

I've heard of some cruise lines that recommend if passengers want to tip additional, they come to the front office and designate a sum of money to be put into the "crew welfare fund." Apparently that fund is used for such things as upgrades to crew cabins (new televisions and DVD players), crew holiday parties, etc. Management gets NO BENEFIT WHATSOEVER from any portion of that money ... it all goes into a crew fund and the crew votes on how it will be spent.

 

I also don't think there's anything wrong whatsoever in the crew pooling tips among their various service groups. Such a strategy, at least to me, sounds like it would foster teamwork and a spirit of cooperation. You've got a new employee who is a bit slow? Well, now everyone in the group is motivated to help train him and get him up to speed. Everyone in the group is more than willing to pitch in until he is up to speed with his workload. And, for those few employees who just aren't cutting it, there would be enough peer pressure that they would either change their ways or they would be motivated to request transfer off the ship.

 

So, don't think pooling of tips is as bad as it sounds. It actually is a great motivator and team building strategy that restaurants and hotels on land have been using for years.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[jtl513]

So, don't think pooling of tips is as bad as it sounds. It actually is a great motivator and team building strategy that restaurants and hotels on land have been using for years.

And the "team spirit" is much stronger among ship crews that not only work together but live together and spend their leisure time together!

[Copper10-8]

And the "team spirit" is much stronger among ship crews that not only work together but live together and spend their leisure time together!

 

Don't forget a tiny thing called "peer pressure";)

[kryos]

On the other hand, people donate money all the time with restrictions to see that the money is devoted to the donor's purpose.

Donating money to a charitable cause is an entirely different matter. In that case, you'd better believe I care how that money is being spent. When I give to charity, I give that money for a specific purpose ... something that is near and dear to my heart, or at the very least means a lot to me. The money is not a gift to the charity at all, but rather money I am placing in their care in order that they perform a service that *I* feel needs to be performed (feeding the hungry, educating the poor, etc.).

 

But when I give a tip, that's an entirely different thing. That is a gift, in recognition of something nice that was done for me. The money is being given with no strings attached, and that's why I shouldn't be at all concerned about what happens to it once it leaves my hands. As long as it goes into the appropriate person's hands, then it is his to do with as he wishes ... and that includes putting it into a tip pool.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[DesertDogs]

Problems arise when some people think that the $20 PG fee, or other alternate dining room fee is distributed to staff and some think it goes to HAL. On the basis of this they make decisions with respect to providing a specific tip for their PG waiter or not.

 

 

I emailed HAL last week when this thread came out to ask if the $20 fee for the Pinnacle Grill included gratuities and this is the response I received today.

 

Good Morning,

 

Thank you for your inquiry. In response to your email, the $20.00pp charge for the Pinnacle Grill includes your meal and gratuities.

 

Thank you again for your inquiry, and please let us know if you have any further questions or concerns regarding your upcoming cruise with Holland America Line.

 

 

Kind Regards,

Ship Services

 

 

So, according to Ship Services, the $20 does include gratuities. This is of course, contradictory to what others on this board have been told by the Ship Staff.

 

I think bottom line is, just do what you think is best.

[jtl513]

This is of course, contradictory to what others on this board have been told by the Ship Staff.

It also contradicts what Ship Services has told others when making PG reservations! It's simply staggering to me how inconsistent HAL is in their answers on all manner of questions and policies!! :eek: :eek:

[hammybee]

Just a tip (pun intended), for those that do add something extra to the standard service amount, I suggest that they include a brief note stating that this is "extra" and not a substitute for what is held since we all have the option of opting out of the service charge.

 

If and when a passenger opts out, the room stewards, wait staff and managment are all aware of it. There is no reason for passengers to include a note, beyond a thank you. :)

[RevNeal]

I emailed HAL last week when this thread came out to ask if the $20 fee for the Pinnacle Grill included gratuities and this is the response I received today.

 

Good Morning,

 

Thank you for your inquiry. In response to your email, the $20.00pp charge for the Pinnacle Grill includes your meal and gratuities.

 

Thank you again for your inquiry, and please let us know if you have any further questions or concerns regarding your upcoming cruise with Holland America Line.

 

 

Kind Regards,

Ship Services

 

 

So, according to Ship Services, the $20 does include gratuities. This is of course, contradictory to what others on this board have been told by the Ship Staff.

 

I think bottom line is, just do what you think is best.

 

It also contradicts what Ship Services has told others when making PG reservations! It's simply staggering to me how inconsistent HAL is in their answers on all manner of questions and policies!! :eek: :eek:

 

Ugh! yes ... it's this kind of annoying inconsistency in responses that frustrates me to no - end. I've even had written responses to the same question that have run contrary to the above cited response.

 

Oh, well.

[world~citizen]

Ugh! yes ... it's this kind of annoying inconsistency in responses that frustrates me to no - end. I've even had written responses to the same question that have run contrary to the above cited response.

 

Oh, well.

 

Here is the answer I received:

 

Thank you for your recent correspondence with Holland America Line concerning your upcoming cruise on the ms Eurodam. We would be delighted to welcome you as one of our valued guests on board.

 

The gratuities you pay on board include the Pinnacle Grill. Therefore, you do not need to leave a separate gratuity. The charge to dine in the Pinnacle Grill is $30.00 per person.

 

Please feel free to contact us if we may be of additional assistance. Our valued guests' comments or suggestions are always welcome and very much appreciated. We look forward to welcoming you on board in the near future.

 

Thank you for your continued patronage...

 

 

 

 

Well, go figure.

[kryos]

It also contradicts what Ship Services has told others when making PG reservations! It's simply staggering to me how inconsistent HAL is in their answers on all manner of questions and policies!! :eek: :eek:

I would be hesitant to rely too much on what I am being told onboard the ship ... I don't know if you mean Ship's Services in Seattle, or when making reservations for the Pinnacle aboard ship.

 

Naturally the folks onboard the ship want to stick together, and it wouldn't surprise me to find out that someone told me gratuity wasn't included just so that I would tip their friends in the Pinnacle. People naturally tend to stick pretty close together when in the confines of a tight environment such as a ship.

 

So, I would take the word of Seattle a bit more than I would the word of someone at the reservations desk onboard the ship.

 

As I said before, I've been to the Pinnacle many times onboard ship, and I've yet to see ONE person tip. I dined there on my January 2006 cruise with a singles group organized by the cruise director's staff. We had three large tables full of people and I did not see one of those people tip. In fact, the assistant cruise director who dined with us specifically said that tipping was not necessary as it was already included in our regular $10 per day auto-tip. The only tipping that I saw done that night was by two women at my table ... quite "happy" ... who tipped the wine steward who apparently took very, very good care of them. :)

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita