HAL's tipping policy

[world~citizen]

Your issue seems to be with the how wait staff are paid which differs all over the world. Most of them work hard and are compensated as dictated by the local custom.

 

I believe travelers have an obligation to understand local customs and react accordingly. What I earn, how hard or not I work and what the local tax situation is, are not factors in how the local people in other places are compensated for their efforts.

 

Yes, understanding and respecting local customs is very important. That simply cannot be emphasized enough. Is it safe to say that the "custom" on a ship is to tip?

 

Smooth sailing

[DesertDogs]

Is it safe to say that the "custom" on a ship is to tip? Smooth sailing

If the answer to your question is "yes", then if we are already paying the $10pp/pd and 15% for the bar purchases, why should anyone tip in addition to that?

[Hlitner]

I have a silly question. We wonder how many tip the kitchen staff, laundry folks, etc. when they go to a hotel or resort? When tipping becomes totally impersonal (like it has become on HA and most other mass market cruise lines) it is no longer a gratuity, but simply a price increase. Why not just charge a little more for the cruise and have no-tipping? Of course the cruise lines do not do this because they want to advertise lower rates (it looks good in the newspapers and on-line) and than start adding, so-called tips, fuel surchages, port charges, other fees, charges for good coffee, extra charges for alternative restaurants (there was a time when the dining room food was so good you did not need an alternative), 500%+ mark-ups on wine, etc etc. On some of our cruises (we cruise more than 2 months a year) we have had all the auto-tips removed from our account and than directly tipped those who gave us great service (usually more than the recommended amounts). On some other cruises we simply went with the auto-tip program (probably because we were too lazy to do the personal tipping). I fear we are becoming too much like Pavlov's dog and blindly accept whatever the cruise line tells us, without questioning why the passengers should feel guilty because the cruise lines underpay their staff.

 

Ok. Flame away...but I am just being honest.

 

Hank

[hammybee]

Where's Philip217 when you need him?;)

 

I have the next best thing, a copy of one of his many posts on the topic of tipping: ( enjoy:) )

 

The short version:

In 1910, American Industrialist/Banker JP Morgan purchased the White Star Line just as they were building the RMS Titanic.

Even though he was the wealthiest man in America, he decided to save on operating costs by having his passengers pay the bulk of the ship's crew salaries in the form of tips.So Mr. Morgan paid his crewmembers about 10 cents a day - plus any tips they might receive.

 

The theory was that if a crewmember performed well, he received many tips, was very happy, and stayed with the company. If he performd poorly, he received very few tips, starved, and left.

 

This system worked reasonably well for about 80 years.

 

Many variations and developments were made to the basic idea. Customized envelopes came along in the 1950s; names and positions were added to the envelopes in the 1960s. The math was even worked out for you on the back of the envelopes in the 1970s. One of the early developments remained a secret. To protect waiters who might get stuck with frugal passengers, or to protect waiters who were not quite up to speed, they started pooling all the tips in the 1950s. By the 1970s, every cruise ship pooled all the tips amongst the service staff. Then the service staff had to pay some of their tips to the back of house people.

 

The waiters and stewards quickly learned that if they told the passengers about the tip pooling scheme, the passengers would tip them less. So the tip pools were very hush-hush.

 

By the 1990s, the system was failing. With cruising now affordable to middle America, we suddenly started seeing more and more passengers who could not - or would not - afford to tip. The tip pools started getting smaller and smaller. The best waiters and stewards realized that they could earn more money at home, see their families every day, work shorter hours, and avoid the personal abuse they get from passengers more and more often. Many of the best service people left - never to return. (Now you know why service has suffered on ships over the past 20 years or so.)

 

The cruise lines panicked when they saw how many great employees they were losing. They had to come up with a scheme to convince more passengers to tip the service staff. Auto-tipping was born.

 

Before auto-tipping, as many as 30% of passengers tipped nothing at the end of the cruise. With auto-tipping, about 5% tip nothing at the end of the cruise. The staff now earn more and stay longer.

 

A few bits of trivia:

 

Since we have been pooling tips for over 50 years (and still do) we ALWAYS knew we would get a tip (from the pool) even if you didn't tip. This nonsense that today's auto tip and pooling of tips has caused the staff to give poorer service (because they know they will get a tip regardless) is just that - nonsense. It is usually spouted by people who cannot afford to tip and are looking for new excuses to get out of the auto-tips without looking cheap.

 

 

 

[world~citizen]

If the answer to your question is "yes", then if we are already paying the $10pp/pd and 15% for the bar purchases, why should anyone tip in addition to that?

 

The amount would still be discretionary.

[Copper10-8]

Good job, Hammy!;)

[world~citizen]

In 1910, American Industrialist/Banker JP Morgan purchased the White Star Line just as they were building the RMS Titanic.

Even though he was the wealthiest man in America, he decided to save on operating costs by having his passengers pay the bulk of the ship's crew salaries in the form of tips.So Mr. Morgan paid his crewmembers about 10 cents a day - plus any tips they might receive.

 

JP Morgan was a robber baron. The 10 cent a day salary is hardly surprising. Interestingly, he stopped the pay of crew of the Titanic from the moment it went down.

 

Remarkable, really, that his system of getting the passengers to pay the wages of the serving staff survives until this day.

 

 

 

[cruisecrasy]

I believe that the staff are sharing a decent amt due to the auto tip as most folks are not opting out because its convenient, some who forget to tip don't worry cause its automatic and perhaps it helps shame some who are 'cheap' cause they know the staff are informed they opted out.

 

The pool is actually larger now than before the auto tip was started and they all appreciate anything we care to give as an extra...including those in the PG. They may share in a very small portion of the auto tip but also receive a nice percentage from the PG service charge (w/ part to HAL to cover extra expenses in relation to the PG).

 

I mean, it doesn't take much to figure out that they are the very best of the wait staff and wld expect a larger tip than the regular dr waiters and since diners can not be counted on to leave tips, the $ has to come from somewhere - hence the PG service charge!! Can't add it to the auto-tip...folks wld rebel at paying a larger amt and wld also 'squawk' if they found out part went to those PG waiters when they themselves never used the PG.. (same reason goes for the Spa and Club HAL)

 

For myself anyway, I like to leave an extra tip for all those I feel went above & beyond because the service is usually above & beyond. :)

 

Oh yes, as per ol' JP Morgans policy went -clever fella & more 'fool' us..!

 

Happy cruisin' all!

[Teresa Price]

Hank - no one has flamed yet!!!! Amazing that. I'm with you the nickle and diming [i think that's what you guys call it] is so big now. they even try and sell you the deckchair! Don't get me wrong I love HAL but just be honest about the cost of the cruise and include the tips. then let people tip again if they want to [as happens on Regent]

 

Now someone here earlier took it that I didn't tip from my posting. Well actually we do usually but I won't be bullied into it.

teresa

[hammybee]

 

Remarkable, really, that his system of getting the passengers to pay the wages of the serving staff survives until this day.

 

Consumers pay the wage of all employees, everywhere. The only difference is how people are compensated.

[world~citizen]

Consumers pay the wage of all employees, everywhere. The only difference is how people are compensated.

 

True enough.

[Thrifty]

hammybee: Thank you for sharing Philip217's explanation of the tipping system. It didn't answer all my questions, but it did enough of them to make me feel very gullible. Even though that's not especially pleasant, I prefer it to not knowing my weaknesses.

[Eremita]

Hank - no one has flamed yet!!!! Amazing that. I'm with you the nickle and diming [i think that's what you guys call it] is so big now. they even try and sell you the deckchair! Don't get me wrong I love HAL but just be honest about the cost of the cruise and include the tips. then let people tip again if they want to [as happens on Regent]

 

Now someone here earlier took it that I didn't tip from my posting. Well actually we do usually but I won't be bullied into it.

teresa

 

Are you being literal about charging for using the deckchairs?

 

Naive Eremita

[kryos]

Now someone here earlier took it that I didn't tip from my posting. Well actually we do usually but I won't be bullied into it.

teresa

And that's exactly the attitude you should have.

 

I realize service people everywhere are underpaid and their employers depend upon me to pay them a liveable wage. Well, they can depend all they want, that doesn't mean I will. I tip based on service received. Period. I don't tip because someone tells me I am supposed to.

 

A co-worker and I had an interesting discussion tonight here at work. He works part-time at a coffee house and mentioned that his tips were way off because more and more people are charging their lattes and coffees to a credit card these days. I told him the honest truth ... there is no way I'd tip him a dime whether I was paying by cash or credit card. When I buy a cup of coffee that I go up to the counter and purchase, I don't think that warrants a tip. When I eat in and am served that cup of coffee at my table, I have no problem tipping very well for good service. But for takeout? No way. I tip zip. That's not a "tippable" circumstance as far as I'm concerned, and if I'm gonna tip the guy who pours my coffee for me and collects my money for it, then why not also tip the cashier at the supermarket who bags my groceries, or the druggist who fills my prescription?

 

Tipping has gotten way out of hand today ... and while it may be true that service people depend on me for a liveable wage, that doesn't mean it's right. Those service people need to unionize or lobby their elected officials to force a change in the laws that will require their employees to pay them a liveable wage that will not leave them dependent upon tips to survive. And before anyone says "don't you realize then that things will cost more since employers will have to raise the wages of their service people?" ... let me say that I'd rather know upfront what something is gonna cost me and then I can make the decision as to whether or not it's worth it to me to buy it.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

Are you being literal about charging for using the deckchairs?

Hal doesn't charge to rent a deck chair, but I think what HAL is gonna start charging for are private cabana rentals on the Eurodam. From what I understand, without a private cabana, you're not gonna have much of a sea view on the Lido deck since the cabanas will ring around the perimeter of the deck.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kakalina]

Are you being literal about charging for using the deckchairs?

 

Naive Eremita

 

I am quite certain that this is referring to the fact that HAL sells the deck chairs and the beds and just about anything else on their website. You can go there and purchase everything from china to a teapot. They do not try to sell you these things while you are on your cruise. :D

[Teresa Price]

hi, I meant you can buy a deckchair!!! not the one you are sitting on of course.

 

Thanks Rita for what you said I sometimes feel like a weirdo on here! [the fact that I am a weirdo is besides the point]. When you pay the service charge, pay for your cruise and then tip you are a consumer paying more than the wages. If I buy a product in a shop I know what I am getting - and yes I am helping to pay the person that made the product. I would rather pay more for the cruise and have the tips included. I would like to know where I stand in stopping the service charge [ please don't faint people and never mention it on the Cunard board!] and tipping individuals - I don't think that is too much to ask? And yes I know that then I can't tip those behind the scenes but then I see that as HAL's job.

 

Also I like to buy little gifts for staff - like a baby dress for a new dad who is just going home, a football shirt for a keen supporter. Does that mean they have to give these up?

thanks Teresa

[jtl513]

They may share in a very small portion of the auto tip but also receive a nice percentage from the PG service charge

What is your source for this info? Much of this thread, and others on tipping, have been disputing this contention.

[RuthC]

I would like to know where I stand in stopping the service charge [ please don't faint people and never mention it on the Cunard board!] and tipping individuals - I don't think that is too much to ask? And yes I know that then I can't tip those behind the scenes but then I see that as HAL's job.

I've lost track of whether or not it's been explained on this thread already, so here goes---

If you reduce or eliminate the $10/day service charge anyone to whom you give a cash tip is obligated to turn it in to the pool for distribution.

Also I like to buy little gifts for staff - like a baby dress for a new dad who is just going home, a football shirt for a keen supporter. Does that mean they have to give these up?

thanks Teresa

No, they don't have to turn those in, but do you really think they would rather have these gifts than cold, hard cash? They have the same problems transporting things back home as we do. Moreso, if everyone gave gifts!

[Thrifty]

RuthC: It seems to me that the question is not whether they would rather receive "cold, hard cash" than a gift, but whether they would rather receive cash they can't keep (although they may get a tiny share) or a gift they can keep for themselves. I am aware that some posters have insisted that there is so much camaraderie amongst them that they would rather have something they can share than something they can keep. I have never worked on a cruise ship, so I don't know, but maybe you do?

[RuthC]

RuthC: It seems to me that the question is not whether they would rather receive "cold, hard cash" than a gift, but whether they would rather receive cash they can't keep (although they may get a tiny share) or a gift they can keep for themselves.

:confused: The stewards can keep cash. They keep their share of the service charge, and they keep any extra tips that they receive. The only time they have to turn in cash is if the service charge is removed/reduced. So, if you leave the service charge alone the stewards get something they can transport easily---$$$$$.

[cruisecrasy]

What is your source for this info? Much of this thread, and others on tipping, have been disputing this contention.

 

2 sources on 2 separate occasions - a friend known 8 yrs, who is a HAL employee and a waiter now serving in the PG that I have known for about 10 yrs..and since both said similar things, likely its true.

 

I have heard other reasons/stories from other waiters and Kyros stated it rather well when she said they 'stick' together!

 

One of the other 3 waiters over 2 yrs I spoke to mentioned he got a small 'pooled' tip, one didn't say anything and one even suggested he relied only on the generosity of diners to leave tips... :)

Since this benefits them to suggest same I was skeptical so decided to ask 2 folks I know well..The story was a tad different..

 

Plse re-read my entire post, the reasons given made lots of sense to me.

 

Since HAL has also informed those who requested the info they pay the PG staff tips from the PG service charge (not the entire fee however) then I suggest my information sources were correct.

 

The increase in the charge from $20 to $30 was not to increase tips though but to cover increasing expenses & to make a profit which is, after all, why they are in business.

However with the business climate & economy deteriorating HAL has had to drop it again 'cause the PG was losing customers.

Likely when the economy improves the price will increase again..

Simple Economics 101 - like oil - more demand means higher prices - less means lower!!

 

Have happy cruisin'!

[Thrifty]

RuthC: In your 03:40 pm post, you mentioned that, if the passenger cancelled the service charge, the recipient had to turn in tips, so I thought that was the situation you were talking about. I also thought it was what Teresa Price was talking about. In that situation, some of the staff might prefer cash, even though they had to turn it in, while others might prefer a gift they could keep for themselves. I have no idea which are more numerous; no one knows for sure, but I thought that someone with staff experience or staff friends might have a better idea than most of us and could share it with us.

[kryos]

No, they don't have to turn those in, but do you really think they would rather have these gifts than cold, hard cash? They have the same problems transporting things back home as we do. Moreso, if everyone gave gifts!

From what I understand too, the staff is very, very restricted as to how much "stuff" they can store in their cabins. The crew cabins are absolutely tiny, and almost all of them are shared cabins. They have very, very limited storage space, and everything has to be neatly stored at all times. They are actually subject to cabin inspections and get written up if sloppy conditions are noted.

 

For this reason, and of course, the difficulty some of them could have transporting such gifts home, I would restrict my gift giving to maybe phone cards only.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Teresa Price]

Last post on this one as my blood pressure is going up by the minute!

 

Both the gifts given were very welcome at the time and I am not suggesting that others should do it. That was my choice. The reasons given for it being a bad choice such as cabin inspections are just daft - in my opinion [as a tightwad Brit who knows nothing about tipping].

 

Nobody has proved that this is what happens with tips, people have been told different things. Where is your evidence Ruth? The company don't want anyone to know what happens because they are happy if people do both - win, win situation for them. They also are happy for people who stop the charge to be made to feel they are the lowest life form. Which happens on this board.

give me included tips anyday!

 

Teresa