Eliminate Formal Night?

[Fredr]

DAG (in Columbus, Ohio)

 

Thank you for writing an excellent post. I agree with you on all of the points you stated. Isn't also true that if cruise lines eliminate or diminish some or all of things that make a cruise so enjoyable such as formal nights, that the cruise experience over time will be ruined?

 

Carnival Cruise Lines has had to institute rules on the age of passengers in cabins and on drinking. RCCL and Princess have had problems with fights and excessive rowdy behavior on their ships. And most recently there has been legislation proposed (but not adopted) in California to put Peace Officers not affiliated with the cruise lines on ships, to investigate crimes and provide security. In my opinion, the above indicate that the current emphasis on fun only, is headed in the wrong direction. If the cruise lines continue to negate the ambiance, style, travel, and so on of the cruise experience, then that experience will not be what I want in a cruise.

 

Again, a truly excellent post and I hope that you have many more wonderful cruises.

 

Fred

[bakechef]

Remember that Cruise Critic only represents about 2% of all cruisers. Furthermore, most members of Cruise Critic are the ones who like to cruise on a regular basis and enjoy the "novelties" of cruising. It is the the other 98% that cruise lines need to worry about. Many out of that group are the ones which are too busy to do the research and also are the ones who are looking for the easy way out. Those are the ones more likely to avoid formal nights.

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately cruising is a business that has been growing. Look at the mega ships planned by RCCL and NCL. Once all 5 of those ships are launched by the end of 2010, it will add between 26,000 to 30,000 berths. The ships to be retired will only equal about half of that number. In order to fill those new ships, the cruise lines must continue to attract new customers.

 

Younger people are less likely to care about the ambiance or the traditions of cruising. They are going to want something that is fun and easy. They aren't going to see the reasons for formal nights. It is, as so many have said, the current shift of our society. As more and more of people who could care less about and don't want to participate in formal nights begin to cruise (and continue cruising) they will become the "group" that the cruise lines will cater too. The airline luggage policies are going to push this even faster.

 

Go on your next cruise and compare the number of people who are dressed up to the number on your last cruise. I think you will see clearly where this is headed.

 

People have resisted change before.... email and text messaging being prime examples. But sometimes it can't be stopped.

 

People said that "anytime" dining would never catch on because it is not "traditional" cruising.... but now we have at least 4 major lines (NCL, Princess, RCCL and HAL) who have (or are currently) implementing some type of it on their ships. I remember a thread and a poll over on both the HAL and RCCL boards asking whether traditional dining times should be done away with.... both boards had a resounding NO to the question... but Anytime dining is now in effect on HAL and will soon be on RCCL to.

 

We can say that we are against the change, but I really don't think these changes can be stopped.

 

Carnival is also testing anytime dining starting this summer on the Legend, so this is spreading fast.

 

MAC

[CruisnGram]

The problem that I have with lines that have formal night is the requirement, or you are banned to the buffet. It offends me that if I choose to dress in resort casual (nice clothing, not t-shirt and jeans or shorts) then I cannot eat in the regular dining room on my vacation.

 

And then, we see posts that say no one will say anything to you if you are not dressed formally. So which is it? It's all very confusing.

 

The OP has been told to wear dress black pants and a nice top. That's not formal....no where close to formal. So is she going to be told she's not allowed in the main dining room? And if not, then why even bother to have formal night anyway if they don't require formal?

[annierie]

The problem that I have with lines that have formal night is the requirement, or you are banned to the buffet. It offends me that if I choose to dress in resort casual (nice clothing, not t-shirt and jeans or shorts) then I cannot eat in the regular dining room on my vacation.

 

And then, we see posts that say no one will say anything to you if you are not dressed formally. So which is it? It's all very confusing.

 

The OP has been told to wear dress black pants and a nice top. That's not formal....no where close to formal. So is she going to be told she's not allowed in the main dining room? And if not, then why even bother to have formal night anyway if they don't require formal?

 

If we choose to adapt my husband's packing to match the environment and the time we are away, we are chastised.

 

Nope, can't wear black slacks, sage green blazer, tie and white shirt, it isn't "formal" enough.

 

In the mean time, women wear black stretch pants, sandals, sequined or sparkly T shirts and get in without a glance.

 

Next time we run into this hypocrisy, I may tell the maitre d' we will leave right behind all the women thrown out of the dining room for their less than formal wear.

 

I'll bet there isn't a maitre d' with enough cojones to accomplish that, so we'll eat in the dining room. ;)

[bakechef]

If we choose to adapt my husband's packing to match the environment and the time we are away, we are chastised.

 

Nope, can't wear black slacks, sage green blazer, tie and white shirt, it isn't "formal" enough.

 

In the mean time, women wear black stretch pants, sandals, sequined or sparkly T shirts and get in without a glance.

 

Next time we run into this hypocrisy, I may tell the maitre d' we will leave right behind all the women thrown out of the dining room for their less than formal wear.

 

I'll bet there isn't a maitre d' with enough cojones to accomplish that, so we'll eat in the dining room. ;)

 

I gotta agree, all those years of having to pack a suit and wear that uncomfortable thing on my vacation all while older women just threw on polyester pants and a "sparkly" shirt and considered it formal. Well I think this ensemble is only appropriate if you are a retired Solid Gold Dancer!!!!:D

 

MAC

[satxdiver]

Hello,

As for the "almighty dollar" has spoken, it is a very sad day when one has to read this...If the cruise industry becomes "just another business", that is, and take away the ambiance, fun, and romance of a cruise then passengers by the thousands will look elsewhere to spend their hard earned money.

 

When I made that statement I was referencing the free enterprise system. If you want to sell your product, you have to make it desirable to your intended audience. There have been dishonest people probably since time began and we have a system to address these people (judicial system). There are consumers who believe that because they are spending money, all rules of acceptable behavior is negated. Some people need to be told to take their money and spend it somewhere else. Consumer oriented companies are starting to realize this.

 

Many of the cruise lines have found what they believe to be the mother lode. They are advertising to the masses. Carnival advertises the "fun ship" for instance. As they launch newer and larger ships, the cruise lines will have to attract more pax. The ambiance that once was cruising mostly by the upper classes is giving way to a more diversified clientele.

 

One advantage of the free enterprise system is that if you do not like the product that is being offered, you can go somewhere else. Some will no longer go on Carnival, RCCL, and others because they have targeted to a mass audience and have implemented the changes that are required. In the meantime others will take their place. One thing constant in this world is that there always is change.

[DAGVBSB]

DAG (in Columbus, Ohio)

 

Thank you for writing an excellent post. I agree with you on all of the points you stated. Isn't also true that if cruise lines eliminate or diminish some or all of things that make a cruise so enjoyable such as formal nights, that the cruise experience over time will be ruined?

 

Carnival Cruise Lines has had to institute rules on the age of passengers in cabins and on drinking. RCCL and Princess have had problems with fights and excessive rowdy behavior on their ships. And most recently there has been legislation proposed (but not adopted) in California to put Peace Officers not affiliated with the cruise lines on ships, to investigate crimes and provide security. In my opinion, the above indicate that the current emphasis on fun only, is headed in the wrong direction. If the cruise lines continue to negate the ambiance, style, travel, and so on of the cruise experience, then that experience will not be what I want in a cruise.

 

Again, a truly excellent post and I hope that you have many more wonderful cruises.

 

Fred

 

Fred: Unfortunately the poor behavior is already happening and it is happening in society as well. I work in a high school.... we tried to enforce a stricter dress code... didn't work. We are fighting a huge battle with cell phones right now. (we want them banned at school, but many parents are fighting us on that... mostly because they don't have the guts to say no to their kids..) This poor behavior is a result of society changes. It now appears to be "cool" to get completely trashed and even pass out from alcohol. It is now "cool" to wear extremely revealing clothing, it is now "cool" to throw a cuss word in every other word, etc.

 

Many people resisted these changes and tried to stop them, but it hasn't been possible. I see the exact same scenerio playing out with cruising... set dining times, set tablemates, same waiters and fromal nights are all slowly disappearing and I'm not sure it can be stopped. And I'm not sure the cruise lines REALLY want to stop the changes. Because if they did, they would be enforcing the dress codes that they currently have.

 

The only way that the changes could possibly be stopped would be for passengers who are dressed to the dress code confront the Maitre'd and point out offending passengers in the dining room and ask why they are allowed in dressed like that. Put the cruise lines on the spot. My guess is many of those who want to keep formal night aren't willing to do this and as a result the offenders will continue to grow in number. Complaining about it on a cruise message board or even writing a complaint to the cruise line is not going to accomplish a thing. (cruise lines will simply thank you for your letter and ignore it...)

[DAGVBSB]

The ambiance that once was cruising mostly by the upper classes is giving way to a more diversified clientele.

 

This comment made the really old days of cruising come to mind. (think the "Titanic" movie) Back then the classes all sailed together. The first class passnegers were treated like royalty. The second class passengers were treated ok and the third class (or "steerage") passengers were kept behind locked gates so not as to "mingle" with the upper class.

 

Times have changed from that type of cruising and, nearly 100 years later, the cruising cycle is changing again as the cruise lines increase their marketing to the masses.

[Handsome58]

solution, Most cruise ships have 2 dinning rooms...........why not on the Formal Nights have one designated FORMAL.....and the other CASUAL.....that way everyone will be served.......even though it seems to be running 2 to 1 for keeping formal night I think because you have an opinion that is not with the norm does not make you backwards or lower class. I work for a Law Firm. 4 years ago we went to a business casual dress code.......do you know that productivity has shot through the roof.........and before that we dressed jacket,shirt , tie....so when we went on a cruise I was against dressing for formal night [i did it to keep peace with my wife].......I am saying this because people all have what they think are great reasons not to want to dress up and if there were two seperate dinning rooms on Formal Night we would have no need for this convo...........just my 2 cents...lol lol

[GottaLuvCruising]

Formal night just doesn't do anything for me and I really like Carnival's move to lighten up on it. There are plenty of lines that still make attire a big deal, so folks have options.

[krystalkruzer]

For many of us cruising is not just about "formal night" and therefore not having formal night does not negate the ambiance, style, travel, and so on of the cruise experience for everybody.It is more about just "getting away from it all".The real ambiance of cruising is being out on the open ocean or sea and travelling to new and exotic destinations.Formal night is not going away.There will always be lines for those who desire that kind of cruise just like there will be ones for the casual,active fun loving type.

[cruisemom42]

solution, I work for a Law Firm. 4 years ago we went to a business casual dress code.......do you know that productivity has shot through the roof.........and before that we dressed jacket,shirt , tie....

 

 

Interesting. This article, which mentions a survey of Fortune 500 firms that tried business casual dress suggests the opposite:

 

http://www.career-intelligence.com/management/InsAndOuts.asp

 

They found that adopting "business casual" led to more tardiness, more employees leaving early, LOWER productivity, and a decrease in polite behavior.

 

"Countless studies have shown that there's a direct correlation between how one dresses and how one thinks, feels, and acts or behaves, and how others react or respond. These results certainly attest to that fact, and are the biggest reason why many companies are returning to a more formal dress code."

 

I don't think this is OT as it also relates to formal nights. I've read on countless other threads that dressing up leads to a certain "ambiance" and people just behave differently. This is always discounted by others. I do think there's an element of truth to the saying that when we dress nicely we act nicely....

[GottaLuvCruising]

Interesting. This article, which mentions a survey of Fortune 500 firms that tried business casual dress suggests the opposite:

 

http://www.career-intelligence.com/management/InsAndOuts.asp

 

They found that adopting "business casual" led to more tardiness, more employees leaving early, LOWER productivity, and a decrease in polite behavior.

 

"Countless studies have shown that there's a direct correlation between how one dresses and how one thinks, feels, and acts or behaves, and how others react or respond. These results certainly attest to that fact, and are the biggest reason why many companies are returning to a more formal dress code."

 

I don't think this is OT as it also relates to formal nights. I've read on countless other threads that dressing up leads to a certain "ambiance" and people just behave differently. This is always discounted by others. I do think there's an element of truth to the saying that when we dress nicely we act nicely....

 

Research regarding school uniforms consistently supports similar conclusions.

 

But when I'm on vacation, I prefer a casual atmosphere; that's why I like Carnival so much. Oddly enough, I still find people very nice (even nicer than on some "stuffier" lines). I'm just not concerned about formal night "ambiance".

 

There are plenty of options for everyone. We don't all have to enjoy the same thing.

[bakechef]

Interesting. This article, which mentions a survey of Fortune 500 firms that tried business casual dress suggests the opposite:

 

http://www.career-intelligence.com/management/InsAndOuts.asp

 

They found that adopting "business casual" led to more tardiness, more employees leaving early, LOWER productivity, and a decrease in polite behavior.

 

"Countless studies have shown that there's a direct correlation between how one dresses and how one thinks, feels, and acts or behaves, and how others react or respond. These results certainly attest to that fact, and are the biggest reason why many companies are returning to a more formal dress code."

 

I don't think this is OT as it also relates to formal nights. I've read on countless other threads that dressing up leads to a certain "ambiance" and people just behave differently. This is always discounted by others. I do think there's an element of truth to the saying that when we dress nicely we act nicely....

 

I don't doubt that there is some truth to this article. But people wearing a polo instead of a suit becoming less polite seems to be a stretch, does this mean if a co-worker is wearing a suit and they are nice to me, that they are just faking it?

 

"They found that adopting "business casual" led to more tardiness, more employees leaving early, LOWER productivity, and a decrease in polite behavior."

 

Well the above could be solved by effective management, I know when I was management I would have never put up with that no matter what the dress code was. People tend to straighten up and fly right when their livelihood is on the line.

 

I do find it sad that people seem to act more polite when dressed formally, clothing should have nothing to do with how you treat others. From getting caught up in many of these threads, I have seen many fighting to keep things formal being extremely rude and condescending when dealing with others, maybe they need to put on their formal wear before they type a reply!:D

 

MAC

[KevinR]

...From getting caught up in many of these threads, I have seen many fighting to keep things formal being extremely rude and condescending when dealing with others, maybe they need to put on their formal wear before they type a reply!:D

 

MAC

 

How funny! :D

[Handsome58]

firm. It has been great. Trust If after 6 months to a year of any negative reactions to it they would have had abolished it quickly, a law firm is bottom line driven.....if you are tardy you are not there to bill a client,,,,,they would put a stop to that fast. A study can be slanted to support your point view. Plus there are always exceptions to the rule and my firm maybe an exception. But any how.......just have 2 dinning rooms...one Formal and one casual.

[Jolimont]

I would be totally ok without a formal night. Makes me feel like a Christmas tree putting on all that unusual garb!

[iheartbda]

From getting caught up in many of these threads, I have seen many fighting to keep things formal being extremely rude and condescending when dealing with others, maybe they need to put on their formal wear before they type a reply!:D

MAC

 

BOTH side are guilty of "unbecoming typing".;)

[Fredr]

BOTH side are guilty of "unbecoming typing".;)

 

Hello,

 

The reason I want to keep formal nights has nothing to do with elitism, snobbery, or anything else that involves judging others because of what they wear. Halter tops, flip flops, cut offs are no problem whatsoever. People can do whatever it is that brings warmth and happiness to their lives.

 

My concern is that if formal nights are no longer a part of the overall cruise experience, then cruise lines will conclude that special dinners that cruise lines serve on formal nights are not required. Further, that the entertainment will be routine and not feature the special entertainers that make a formal night special. This is of course subjective but over 24 cruises I have noticed that the more talented performers appear on formal nights. And the dress uniforms of the cruise staff, which is not a major issue but it is fun to see your waiters in their uniforms along with the other staff. And there won't be that wonderful sense of a party going on, all over the ship.

 

Before formal nights go the way of the dinosaur, I hope as many of you out there will experience at least one formal night, especially "Mississippi".

[DAGVBSB]

solution, Most cruise ships have 2 dinning rooms...........why not on the Formal Nights have one designated FORMAL.....and the other CASUAL.....that way everyone will be served.......even though it seems to be running 2 to 1 for keeping formal night I think because you have an opinion that is not with the norm does not make you backwards or lower class.

 

 

NCL tried that at first. The formal dining room ended up half full and the non-formal dining room had a wait time of 45 mintues!

[DAGVBSB]

I would be totally ok without a formal night. Makes me feel like a Christmas tree putting on all that unusual garb!

 

My feelings exactly. I hate to draw attention to myself, especially based on what I am wearing, and when I dress up, I feel like I am drawing unwanted and unneccessary attention to myself.

 

Think about it, when someone comes into a room with an attention grabbing outfit (whether it be dress up or outlandish), doesn't everyone look at them and stare? (and many make comments...either bad or good)

 

I'm sorry, I just refuse to be that self-centered.

[DAGVBSB]

 

"Countless studies have shown that there's a direct correlation between how one dresses and how one thinks, feels, and acts or behaves, and how others react or respond."

 

I'm sorry, but I don't need to dress nicely to feel good about myself. I am self-confident and feel good about myself because of WHO I AM, not HOW I dress.

 

You will find that, in person, I am very friendly, outgoing and polite... in my polo shirt and kahki pants.

 

If anything, I feel worse in my suit and tie because I feel I am drawing unwanted attention to myself. I have also found when people dress up (speaking of people that I personally know and have seen), they become more arrogant, aloof and stuck-up. They talk down to others and are not themselves... I don't like that change.

 

I don't care what anyone else is wearing and nor does what anyone else is wearing ruin the "ambiance" for me. I care about the people I am with and having a good time with them.

 

I am equal to everyone else in the room...the waiters, the maitre'd, the other guests. No one is better than anyone else, we are all simply human beings and whether we are dressed up or not does not change our stature of who we really are.

[cruzin w chris]

formal nights should be optional so that everyone can enjoy the dining room on any given night and not have to dress up to do so. and those who like to dress up can do as they please. this should go for all cruise lines.

[cruzin w chris]

I don't agree i love formal night i'm going on my 8th cruise next week, i love to get dressed up and love to see my wife get all dressed up...its nice...i feel if you don't want to dress up stay in ur room or go to the buffett

you must be joking, right. rotflmfao.

[cruisemom42]

I hate to draw attention to myself, especially based on what I am wearing, and when I dress up, I feel like I am drawing unwanted and unneccessary attention to myself.

 

I'm sorry, I just refuse to be that self-centered.

 

 

I hate to draw attention to myself also. That's why I would feel like a fish out of water if I wasn't dressed formally on formal nights and a majority of other people were..... I guess everyone is different.

 

My formal clothes (a long black silk skirt and dressy jacket) are far from outlandish and don't think anyone has ever "noticed" me; whereas if I were wearing dressy capris or something similar that I would wear on a casual evening, I would definitely feel that people were looking at me.

 

Somehow I get the feeling that whatever I say is going to put me in the wrong on this subject, because those who don't enjoy dressing up immediately pull the "elitist snob" card:(

 

I'm not elitist and I'm not saying that people shouldn't have a choice. Let some cruise lines offer a more casual experience, and let others continue to have formal evenings. But I don't think that doing half and half on the same ship leads to the same experience. As Fred says, it's a special evening with better food, better and more formal dining service, and better entertainment, and it just seems natural to me (and I understand that not everyone feels the same) that dressing more nicely should be part of that equation.