NCL to Cheap to provide Conditioner

[gszach]

If you posted to the 'reviews' section of CC, there is normally a delay before they are available for viewing (sometimes the delay can even be days)

 

That would be really funny if her original post appears now after all 3 pages of war! We would all probably head there super quick to read it.

[CocoKai]

Nope. Did not post to the "big review" page. Sorry, entertainment value will be limited.

 

Watchdiva: I'm on my 5th load of laundry with many more to follow. Isn't that painful enough? I'll skip the review and partake in something more pleasurable....like downloading all my Alaskan pictures.

[2Cruise4Ever]

Cruise Critic has been a wealth of information for me in planning all our cruises. It loses a share of its validity when anyone posts anything slightly negative about a certain line. Not just NCL, but any line. I don't know why the cheerleaders come out and beat the poster with their boat oars for sharing their experience. To this extent, you don't see both sides of different experiences because I'm sure some newbies reading this now 2 page thread on conditioner will not come back and share the good and bad of their cruise.

 

In retrospect, I'm glad my review vanished into the computer black hole as it would have contained about 23 pages of criticism, name calling and other behavior I expect people would not do in "real life" to ones face.

 

You are absolutely right. I could have bought a bottle of conditioner in their spa or gift shop...more $$$ for NCL...hence the cheap comment. Oh, I know...I'm now going to be called cheap. I just expect salt and pepper, oil and vinegar, gin and tonic, shampoo and conditioner....two things that go together.

 

So, based upon MY experience with NCL, I would never sail with them. End of review. Alaska was fabulous though and lived up to all expectations.

 

Again (conditioner aside), what went wrong specifically with this cruise???? We need to know the specifics in order to make an educated decision about whether to book this cruise in the future. What do you mean "end of review'???? We need to hear more............

[soccermommy]

Coco: As requested in my previous post, can you supply specifics (and no, not about the conditioner). I must agree with some of my fellow cc'ers though, using words like "slimy" etc. do make me question the validity of some of your comments.

 

If you care to share specifics, I for one would be interested in hearing them.

 

I have to agree with you. I really would like to know what caused such a negative experience for CocoKai. She is entitled to her opinion (it was HER experience), but I have to admit, when I saw the title of this thread, my first reaction was "oh,no, here we go again, another NCL basher".

People on this board usually react pretty well to well presented non-NCL- loving opinions, but again, it's all in how you present it.

Coco, starting with your title, you were setting yourself up for mean and nasty, unfortunately, because that's how your post came across. (I also read your comments on the Alaska board and you sounded really angry.) I'm really sorry you had a bad experience, but still don't know why.

[salty dingo]

But I understant her point....that the salesmen try to convince you to buy something you don't neccesarily completely want or maybe can't easily afford...etc. It's the nature of their job to sell things. Calling them slimy isn't too nice. I do hope that she didn't mean that they themselves are bad people!

Right! The salespeople are just trying to do their jobs. I have talked to some of them and they are nice people, working and trying to make a living while the rest of us recline in luxury. Must be tough to have to work while so many are being pampered around you.

 

Anyone who has ever cruised recently will know, understand, and expect that there will be sales pitches on the cruise. Complaining about it is not very productive. It is like complaining about the weather. Don't like the weather? Move somewere that has better weather!

[BarbCT605]

Barb---would you really name a thread about hair conditioner "Heads-Up"? ;)

OMG, I didn't even notice!!:D Where's my sense o' humor tonite!?! Well, in my defense, I only had one glass of wine, not the requisite two or three.:)

[mbisson]

OMG, I didn't even notice!!:D Where's my sense o' humor tonite!?! Well, in my defense, I only had one glass of wine, not the requisite two or three.:)

 

I thought you were doing an exceptional job at doing a play on words. Since it was unintentional, you should be even prouder of it!!! :D

[CanadianTwosome]

I think that referring to the sales pitches as "slimy" and "pimping" makes the OP fair game to whatever we care to shovel back on.

quote]

 

I see what you mean. The terms she used certainly have negative conotations. slimy, cheap, pimping. I kind of just understood what she meant, but didn't think about the word she used. It's better to concentrate on her point than on her poor phrasing. Definitely a bad choice of words on her part. But I understant her point....that the salesmen try to convince you to buy something you don't neccesarily completely want or maybe can't easily afford...etc. It's the nature of their job to sell things. Calling them slimy isn't too nice. I do hope that she didn't mean that they themselves are bad people!

 

Canadian Twosome, I don't think it's true that people are simply "expressing our 'friendly opinions' with the same 'tone' that she used. isn't that 'fair understanding'?". I don't see it as fair because she was talking about the business company but people responded by attacking her personally and making fun of her personally. I don't agree with her assessment of NCL at all. She never said anything bad about anyone on this message board though, but everyone turned around and attacked her personally saying she is too picky, frivilous ...etc. I just thought it would have been more effective if people instead stated "She may have felt that way, but under the same situation on the ship I don't remember any feeling of QVC." Instead of "She's too this, she's too that...etc." I think you're right about Princess Cheerleader's review. It is done in better taste.

 

As for the part about being too cheap to provide conditioner, they are. They are too cheap. It's a business decision as I stated in my original post. But many other cruiselines are also too cheap to do this. Some cruiselines have decided that it is too expensive to provide conditioner based on the low benefits. That makes them too cheap to provide conditioner. I understand, of course, that the word "Cheap" has a bad conotation associated with it But in a strictly logical sense, it was a financial decision not to provide it, and thus it made their operations cheaper.

 

I didn't actually think anyone was expressing 'friendly opinions' either... I thought we were all reacting to a NASTY post - which I had explained. All I was trying to point out is that you were quick to defend one nasty person while condemning those of us who reacted... that is NOT fair, in my opinion, so if 'fairness' is what you're looking for... well, I think I've made my point a little clearer now. :)

 

As for being 'cheap'... is your local gym 'cheap'? Mine doesn't supply shampoo OR conditioner, even though they know I'll be showering... What about all those hotels and lines that DO supply conditioner, but it's crap that I wouldn't even consider using on my hair? Is that actually any less 'cheap' than not supplying any? I think 'cheap' is excessive. All companies in business make decisions based on their bottom line. If NCL can be called 'cheap' because they've chosen not to provide conditioner, then EVERY other business in the world can be called 'cheap' as well for some reason, including ALL cruiselines.

 

Cruise Critic has been a wealth of information for me in planning all our cruises. It loses a share of its validity when anyone posts anything slightly negative about a certain line. Not just NCL, but any line. I don't know why the cheerleaders come out and beat the poster with their boat oars for sharing their experience. To this extent, you don't see both sides of different experiences because I'm sure some newbies reading this now 2 page thread on conditioner will not come back and share the good and bad of their cruise.

 

While nasty posters like to accuse people who react to their tone and accusations of doing the same to ALL negative posts, it is NOT true. As I mentioned earlier, there is currently a thread entitled 'Princess Cheerleader Sails the Gem' (thank you to Cynbar for contributing here as well) that shows what happens when someone makes their negative comments in a calm, polite, and FRIENDLY manner. EVERYONE here on Cruise Critic is here to learn from others and contribute where we can. We are interested in ALL experiences; we just prefer to have people share them with us without being NASTY.

 

You say that CC loses its validity when anyone posts something negative and 'cheerleaders' beat the poster with oars... again, this is NOT the case. People who find words like 'cheap', 'slimy', and 'pimping' offensive respond to HOW you are saying things, not WHAT you are saying. There are posts and reviews all the time in which people express things that they thought were negative, from a poor customer service encounter to being stuck on a ship that has struck a barge. The people who are nasty get nasty responses. The people who simply express themselves are generally thanked for the information and if possible, people will offer information in return, depending on the discussion. In my opinion, it is posts like yours that 'lose validity' due to the tone and exaggerated slurs you used to describe things.

 

I apologize if I sound harsh. I'm just REALLY REALLY tired of people being nasty and rude and then expressing shock when others react to it.

[nlt46]

Well, at least it was not CocoKai's first posting. I hate that even more. Nancy

[catlady461]

Well I believe if the OP hadn't put in the title as NCL too cheap to supply conditioner there wouldn't be such an uproar.

We have sailed RCCL, Celebrity and NCL; don't remember any of them supplying conditioner.

We were on the Dawn in May and I purchased a bottle of conditioner in the gift shop(not expensive).

[newmexicoNita]

Why is everyone attacking CocoKai so strongly? She did something very nice to point out to newer cruisers that conditioner is not provided. Additionally, so many have claimed she must be "picky" or hard to please. But it's just the opposite. Every person I know who has a fair amount of hair uses conditioner. As several of you have pointed out, many people are picky about their conditioners. CocoKai is completely NOT picky, she just wanted any conditioner. That's way less picky than the average girl I know! She expected standard hotel ammenities and didn't get them and was disappointed. Why are so many of you acting like that's not understandable to be disappointed at? Sometimes it is the little things that we look forward to. For me, it's chocolate on my pillow on Royal Caribbeean. I love those chocolates. If they weren't there it wouldn't ruin my cruise. But I'd be disappointed. My wife loves the towel animals on Carnival. If they weren't there she'd be disappointed, but it wouldn't ruin her vacation. CocoKai expected complimentary bathroom ammenities. Can't we all be a little sympathetic? Who among us wouldn't think it sucked to pay $20 for a bottle of conditioner? Additionally, she never claimed it "ruined" her trip. She said Alaska was still amazing and the specialty food was outstanding. It's interesting that people seem bothered that she didn't like a few things. She isn't lieing when she says she had the feeling of being on QVC, she indeed had that feeling as certainly some other people have too. But it's not a major putdown for NCL. Let's face it, all cruise lines constantly try to sell you everything...drinks, excursions, Jewelry, Art. I remember carnival and royal caribbean both had art auctions and constantly talked about them and invited you. She experienced it more on NCL on this one particular cruise. That doesn't make her picky or bad. Isn't she correct also that it is a question of being cheap that they don't supply conditioner? It's a financial decision. Yes, they are too cheap to provide conditioner. The reward of a few customers being happier isn't worth the added cost for them. Face it, there are cruise lines that this added cost is worth it. Norwegian is "cheap" compared to those cruise lines when it comes to conditioner. NCL is certainly better in other areas though. Everyone knows that on every cruise something happens not perfect for someone...lost luggage, beer spilled on them, bad meal, ...etc. This was just that cruise for her. That's the whole purpose of Cruise Critic to give people a fair understanding of other people's experiences...because often two people experience the same thing differently. What really confuses me is why some people seem to get so upset that she pointed out some bad things along with the good things? Even NCL admits everything isn't perfect. That's why they have customer suggestion/compaint systems in operation.

of course every line tries to sell us things: what do you expect? They are in the business to make money just like most of us. We don't work for the pure joy of it, although some jobs are pretty satisfying. Yes, it does make her picky, very picky, I have been a TA for many years and have read and contributed to many forums, I have never ever seen anyone bring the lack of conditioner to the attention of these boards, nor suggest this makes a line cheap. In fact, as mentioned many lines do not feature conditioner. I guess they are all cheap..I have to find her statement beyond just warning people. Many people I know do not use or if they do would not care about conditioner while on a cruise. Lets face it, our hair looks like you know what most of the cruise due to weather. I know mine does, with the exception of just after I shower. I have stayed in many hotels, from the budget to the top of the line and never found a conditioner that I would want to purchase on a regular basis. If she had made the comment in a light mode, I might find it a little less annoying.

 

Nita

[newmexicoNita]

Cruise Critic has been a wealth of information for me in planning all our cruises. It loses a share of its validity when anyone posts anything slightly negative about a certain line. Not just NCL, but any line. I don't know why the cheerleaders come out and beat the poster with their boat oars for sharing their experience. To this extent, you don't see both sides of different experiences because I'm sure some newbies reading this now 2 page thread on conditioner will not come back and share the good and bad of their cruise.

 

In retrospect, I'm glad my review vanished into the computer black hole as it would have contained about 23 pages of criticism, name calling and other behavior I expect people would not do in "real life" to ones face.

 

You are absolutely right. I could have bought a bottle of conditioner in their spa or gift shop...more $$$ for NCL...hence the cheap comment. Oh, I know...I'm now going to be called cheap. I just expect salt and pepper, oil and vinegar, gin and tonic, shampoo and conditioner....two things that go together.

 

So, based upon MY experience with NCL, I would never sail with them. End of review. Alaska was fabulous though and lived up to all expectations.

 

and I bet there are many who would be glad to see you choose another line. Not every line is right for everyone. I am certain you made comments that went against the forum guidelines. That is the only reason postings are pulled.

 

NIta

[Urban trekker]

"I just expect salt and pepper, oil and vinegar, gin and tonic, shampoo and conditioner....two things that go together. "

 

See - she wants free booze as well.

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

[DizzyDallasDi]

Just off our first NCL Pearl cruise to Alaska. I spent an hour writing a review but then it vanished into thin air and never posted. Don't know if I'll have time to rewrite it but I thought I'd warn those traveling to bring conditioner.

 

It is not available in the staterooms, nor do they have it behind the scenes. You can buy it though in the spa for just $20 a bottle. The conditioner is a good analogy of the entire cruise....sell, sell, sell.

 

Say it's not so...a business that wants to "sell, sell, sell"?????? This is shocking and appalling news.

 

BTW - the free shampoo in your cabin was a shampoo / conditioner combo, but I'm not a fan. (This may have already been mentioned...I haven't read the thread yet.) And, a prepared packer always brings his / her own hair products if they care to look their best. Most hotels (even the Four Seasons) provide less than satisfactory products and I wouldn't expect that a cruiseline would either.

 

Diane

[gszach]

I have to agree with you. I really would like to know what caused such a negative experience for CocoKai. She is entitled to her opinion (it was HER experience).

 

This concept of thinking about someone's experience is taught in counseling, usually marital counseling. They taught it to us at a premarital weekend. No matter how crazy your husband/wife sounds, their point of view is valid and needs to be dealt with realistically because it was their experience.

[CocoKai]

DizzyDallas: Four Seasons provides L'Occitane. I don't normally purchase it for my hair but I like the product. They also always have conditioner.

[DizzyDallasDi]

DizzyDallas: Four Seasons provides L'Occitane. I don't normally purchase it for my hair but I like the product. They also always have conditioner.

 

You are correct! However, I'm super picky about my hair products and bring my own when I stay there. Or, maybe I should say that my hair is super picky about its products. :D

[DAGVBSB]

COCO SERIUOSLY. You had to expect people to respond to you this way by calling the thred what you did. You weren't just as you put it "warning" people that NCL doesn't supply conditioner. You were indeed informing us they were as you put it too "cheap".

 

I personal can't imagine using anything but my brand of conditioner anyway.

 

Agreed, if she really didn't have a hidden agenda of attempting to turn people off of NCL, she would have title the thread simply: "No conditioner provided on NCL." The minute she inserted the words "too cheap," her real motive to the thread became crystal clear.

 

 

Btw: Did she call me a "NCL Cheerleader" in one of her posts? She don't know me very well does she....;) :D

[DAGVBSB]

"I just expect salt and pepper, oil and vinegar, gin and tonic, shampoo and conditioner....two things that go together. "

Dennis

 

You know,

 

I am getting Salt and pepper hair

 

I have tried hair tonics before (but never gin...)

 

I use seperate shampoo and conditioner sometimes.

 

Never tried oil and vineger in my hair before. Does it help the scalp or just make you smell bad.......:eek: :D

[Cruzin2paradise09]

DAGVBSB and dolfan95831, I have to agree with you.

I was sitting here trying to find a nice way to respond to the OP who may have wanted to say one thing and maybe it came out another way . . . :rolleyes:

However, I'm not so sure. I, like others, peeked at the OP's other posts and I find OP to be very negative/sarcastic.

OP - had you addressed the CC boards differently, you would not be getting the 'arguments' you are getting. Just by titling the thread differently would have made a huge difference. But you started out snotty and rude and nasty. And for what? Conditioner! OMG, that's crazy!

Maybe if you had started it this way:

Title: FYI - NCL Doesn't Provide Conditioner

Thread: Just wanted to let the newbies know that NCL doesn't appear to supply conditioner so you may want to add it to your packing list if this is important to you. You can, however, purchase it at the spa, but they want $20 for one bottle. It's your choice. Enjoy your cruise.

Voila' -- same point you made - not quite so nasty. Just because YOU didn't like the cruise, for whatever reasons you choose not to tell anyone, doesn't mean that others won't enjoy it. But you did not elaborate on anything that 'went wrong' (in your opinion) and the rest of us should not sail on NCL because they don't supply conditioner . . . you have no credibility.

Think about it.

[NY2VA2NY]

I just have to comment (not sure if this was pointed out on earlier posts of this thread)... the OP should use spell check. The subject should have read that NCL was "too" cheap...... (not that I agree with anything the OP is ranting about).

 

By the way, my husband & I sailed on the Pearl to Alaska last June 2007 & LOVED the ship. We couldn't find one negative thing to say about it. We loved it so much that we convinced the rest of our family to join us aboard the Dawn, which we just returned from.

[deepnite10]

probably the same guy that was bitching

about the Pearl..

 

troll s are so prevelant in the forum s that

im really surprised that the mod s can t

ID them..

[gszach]

All I was trying to point out is that you were quick to defend one nasty person while condemning those of us who reacted... that is NOT fair, in my opinion, so if 'fairness' is what you're looking for... well, I think I've made my point a little clearer now. :)

 

You're right, it is unfair to condemn only one party in an argument where both are being nasty. As in most cases, both sides have valid points. I really like these boards though and I hope you can agree with me that just because one person is nasty doesn't mean everyone should be nasty back to them. There was talk about the board "losing" credibility/respect for this or that, I don't think it was so true. But I do think that if everyone resorts to nastiness (including longtime respected CC board members) that then the board does lose some credibility. I haven't been using CC for very long. But for me when I saw one person act nasty, I just excuse it as ignorace, lack of knowledge or lack of understanding. But when I see the whole board get nasty and mean, I can't help but think everyone shouldn't sink to her level (including me because I dislike those nasty nasty comments that seem so unfounded just as much as the next guy...and more often than I like to admit I certainly do sink down below where I should). If she was nasty on purpose and out to hurt someone, then I would even more (than I somewhat already do) agree with your feelings. But if she was only nasty because she is reacting to what to her was a terrible expeience (even if she is reacting irrantionally) then I just feel like it would be more beneficial to these boards, it's readers and to her to simply explain to her nicely the error of her ways.

As for being 'cheap'... is your local gym 'cheap'? Mine doesn't supply shampoo OR conditioner, even though they know I'll be showering...

 

I fully disagree with her that NCL is cheap. I think NCL is great. But I have no problem whatsoever with her saying she thinks they are cheap. So my other point besides not dropping to her level, was that I don't see why people act so mad that she gave her opinion. Her opinion may be totally stupid and she may have said it nastily, but she didn't say it about anyone on here. Her opinion also doesn't mean people who love NCL are stupid. I'm basically an outsider here on CC and don't have a single bad opinion of any cruise line, so I am a pretty nonbiased point of view and it really seemed to me like everyone just didn't want to know her opinion. Your gym is not cheap, I doubt. I don't think the word "cheap" can really apply to a business. If a business develops a reputation for being "Cheap" the real term should be a bad business strategy. They need to keep their clients perceiving their business as a quality business. If one person in a thousand thinks they are "cheap" then that's a pretty good business strategy. If they started skimping to the point that 100 people in a thousand thought they were cheap, then they'd have a less good business strategy. Clearly NCL had this thought process. They decided that only one in ten thousand will care about complimentary conditioner. That doesn't make that one person crazy or ungrounded. It just makes them unique.

I think 'cheap' is excessive. Definitely agree! Nor is "Cheap" the proper word to use because it's the goal of every business to operate as cheaply as possible while still mantaining quality and getting the biggest profit. But again, I don't see why it matters if one woman thinks they are cheap and says so.

All companies in business make decisions based on their bottom line. If NCL can be called 'cheap' because they've chosen not to provide conditioner, then EVERY other business in the world can be called 'cheap' as well for some reason, including ALL cruiselines.

 

We agree on this. All businesses are "Cheap". Every single business in the world wants to spend less and make bigger profit while keeping quality.

That's exactly what I pointed out earlier. NCL (and several other mainstream cruiselines) is cheaper than some others when it comes to conditioner, but in other areas it is far superior! NCL is totally not "cheap" in the derogatory sense of the word.

I apologize if I sound harsh. I'm just REALLY REALLY tired of people being nasty and rude and then expressing shock when others react to it.

 

I understand. Some people really do just seem to go on these seemingly totally unfounded rants about how terrible some travel destination/hotel/cruiseline is. It is very annoying.

 

Oh, and if she is going to claim they are to this, to that, or to whatever, she could at least spell too correctly, with two o's. (just pickin on you CocoKai!).

[Ms belp]

I was on the Dawn in May. I called NCL before we sailed and asked if they supplied conditioner, shampoo and body lotion. I do this every time I travel.

I also hate to carry extra things, especially liquids.

The rep said "Yes" and I asked her if she was absolutely sure. She said "absolutely".

Well there was no conditioner or body lotion. :mad:

 

Well, I was on the Dawn last November and they had all of the above. I had brought my own however. I don't see how 3 oz bottles of liquid are going to cause you too much trouble. You put them in a zip lock bag, pack them in your suitecase. No problem.:confused:

[CruisnGram]

Cruise Critic has been a wealth of information for me in planning all our cruises. It loses a share of its validity when anyone posts anything slightly negative about a certain line. Not just NCL, but any line. I don't know why the cheerleaders come out and beat the poster with their boat oars for sharing their experience. .

 

Slightly negative? Why are the words "cargo ship" coming to mind? What did you say that was positive?

 

You obviously skipped over, or deliberately ignored the link to another posters review that contained both postive, and negative comments about her NCL cruise. So, here it is again:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=809097

 

Read that thread and please tell us where the cheerleaders are? Where they attacked the poster for her opinion?

 

Honest opinions stated in a civilized manner are received as such. Those written like yours, antagonizes people and causes them to respond in kind. Perhaps you should consider that before making another post. You might just be surprised at how well critical comments are received if presented the right way.