WOW HAL not so fair

[ybarber]

Denise - your Yorkie is absolutely adorable - mine is named Harley - what is your baby's name? He/she is so cute!

[Denisern2]

HA needs to review their "policy" of predatory insurance sales.

 

Grandma books a sailing for February of 2008 ...

she is told she MUST BUY INSURANCE at the time of booking. She is not told it is non refundable.

 

Grandma cancels 7 months before the departure, and HA refunds only the cruise portion of her deposit and POCKETS $600+ for the insurance.

 

HA has 7 months to sell the cabin to someone else. I could see 60-90 for non refundable insurance, but 10 months? Yes, I've heard that the rules are "on the website", but Grandma doesn't do the web.

 

SHAME ON YOU! Stealing Grandma's money like that.

 

I hope the Shameless Commerce Division of HA is satisfied!

 

 

That about sums it up! I am waiting to hear back from a supervisor we will see what they say.

 

Ybarber your little Harley is sooo cute are Yorkies not the best! Mine is Humphrey Bogart or Bogie for short. He is four and I love him sooo much.

 

My prayers are with your son that he is safe.

[sail7seas]

HAL' s insurance permits cancellation for any reason, for no reason other than whim, up to about 24 hours prior to scheduled departure. Almost no other insurance offers that feature. In return for that benefit, they require you purchase the insurance at the time you make your deposit for the cruise.

 

Choices.......it's all about choices.

If you don't like the terms of the insurance, refuse it.

If you like the cancel for any reason feature, you 'gotta' pay for it.

 

[Denisern2]

sail 7 should those terms not be disclosed?

[heavenly]

I e time as the reservation was made. I booked a cruise to the Med in June and cancelled it well before charge would apply but could not get a refund on insurance. They did transfer it to a new cruise but the cost of the new cruise was half the original and no refund. I believe that the payment charged was to include pre existing conditions and had to be bought the same time. I also believe that the travel agent gets a big % of the premium sinilar to buying title insurance when buying a house. As for title insurance the lawyer gets more than 50% of the premium.

 

A good travel agent should disclose all the terms of the insurance, I know we do. No, there are no large comissions on HAL insurance, I wish it were so!

[FLACRUISER99]

I also would file a complaint with the MN & WA AJ.

[sail7seas]

sail 7 should those terms not be disclosed?

 

 

 

They are disclosed.

 

I wasn't party to the conversation between OP and the HAL rep so don't know exactly what was and wasn't said. I don't know what OP asked or didn't (but should have) asked and won't speculate.

 

We have not heard what the rep would say if (s)he were participating in this thread.

 

I make no judgement and have no idea why OP didn't know the premium was non-refundable. I knew it, many other posters here knew it, many other cruisers we've met on ships know it, TA's know it.........

 

It is not a deep, dark secret.

[boards]

Our TA has always spoke to us about being insured for our trips. For our last three cruises we have purchased the travel insurance package our bank offers with the credit card. Our TA suggested this and we checked into it and read the insurance information from our previously purchased insurance and compared it to the insurance with the credit card and as best I can determine they were the same coverage. The cost quite a bit less too. I hope I have done right thing. Fortunately we have not had a health problem while cruising. I certainly don't want to find out the hard. Does anyone have any experience with type of insurance?

[O2B@C]

Insurance that waives pre-existing conditions and covers cancellation regardless of the reason HAS to be purchased upon booking. Otherwise, the person could wait to buy the insurance until after they changed their mind, or the condition they already knew about when they booked took a turn for the worse. And it also has to be nonrefundable - otherwise you'd get the premium back when cancelling, even after the deposit becomes nonrefundable, thus forcing the insurance company to cover your losses without being able to retain the premium it charged you for doing so. So charging a nonrefundable premium upon booking is the only way the insurance company can make this type of insurance workable from a business standpoint. (Arguably, the premium could be made refundable for cancellations that occur soon enough to result in a 100% refund of the deposit, since in that event there are no losses to cover, but then they would probably have to charge more for the insurance since they would have to plan on having to refund some of the premiums they collect.)

 

That said, all of this should have been explained to the OP by the agent when offering the insurance. Maybe the OP should have asked, but the burden is still on the insurance seller, not the buyer, to explain the terms of the insurance. If in fact no such disclosure was made, I think the OP should be able to dispute the charge with her credit card issuer, and get the premium back if the cancellation occurs before the deposit becomes nonrefundable.

[Opinions]

...

Never, never pay for your insurance that far out. You never know what can happen to cause you to have to cancel.

 

 

 

--rita

 

Bad advice for anyone who may have a pre-existing condition...Many insurance companies require payment soon after purchase to be covered for a pre-existing condition...One should carefully read the terms of the insurance policy and then make a decision when to purchase.

[sail7seas]

Insurance that waives pre-existing conditions and covers cancellation regardless of the reason HAS to be purchased upon booking. Otherwise, the person could wait to buy the insurance until after they changed their mind, or the condition they already knew about when they booked took a turn for the worse. And it also has to be nonrefundable - otherwise you'd get the premium back when cancelling, even after the deposit becomes nonrefundable, thus forcing the insurance company to cover your losses without being able to retain the premium it charged you for doing so. So charging a nonrefundable premium upon booking is the only way the insurance company can make this type of insurance workable from a business standpoint. (Arguably, the premium could be made refundable for cancellations that occur soon enough to result in a 100% refund of the deposit, since in that event there are no losses to cover, but then they would probably have to charge more for the insurance since they would have to plan on having to refund some of the premiums they collect.)

 

That said, all of this should have been explained to the OP by the agent when offering the insurance. Maybe the OP should have asked, but the burden is still on the insurance seller, not the buyer, to explain the terms of the insurance. If in fact no such disclosure was made, I think the OP should be able to dispute the charge with her credit card issuer, and get the premium back if the cancellation occurs before the deposit becomes nonrefundable.

 

 

 

Perfect!!!

[Crusing Bob]

your cruise must be really expensive for $700 for insurance.

[sail7seas]

A ten day cruise in a Suite can run up a $700 insurance premium bill.

 

With air included.

[Denisern2]

Holland America took care of me I am satisfied with the resolution. Thank you for your kind words and support. I hope to sail with you in the future.

[O2B@C]

VERY glad to hear this news, Denise. And it didn't take all that long, which is even better.

 

And Sail - thanks for the thumbs-up! :o (Blushing) I don't know if I can live up to "perfect" - just ask my family about that:rolleyes: - but I do try my best.

[kryos]

You seem to be talking about insuring through someone else other than HAL. HAL's policy is that the insurance must be selected at the time of the deposit and that the payment is due if selected.

Yes, I never get the HAL insurance ... not anymore ... not when I realized how expensive it was. I use third party vendors and get a good deal, including pre-existing conditions coverage ... which was never a big issue in the past, but has now become one due to some recent health concerns.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

HAL' s insurance permits cancellation for any reason, for no reason other than whim, up to about 24 hours prior to scheduled departure.

Cancelling for "any reason" is not a big issue with me. If I let a cruise go past final payment date, and I haven't yet cancelled, then the only thing that is gonna make me cancel is one of the reasons covered under third party insurance ... either I or someone in my immediate family takes very ill (or dies) and the trip can't go on. In that case, I'll be reimbursed, and that's all I care about. My dad is 94 years old, and while he is in excellent health, I still worry that he could take ill right before one of my trips and I wind up having to cancel.

 

But those are the only reasons for which I would cancel a cruise once final payment date has come and gone.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

Insurance that waives pre-existing conditions and covers cancellation regardless of the reason HAS to be purchased upon booking.

My third party insurance covers pre-existing conditions and does not have to be purchased at booking. I do know there are some restrictions on when it must be bought, but it does not have to be bought at the time of booking to cover pre-existing conditions ... just so many months out.

 

But, no, it does not cover cancellation for "any" reason, though ... only for the specifically delineated reasons in the policy -- death, illness of self or an immediate family member. But that's okay by me. I can't imagine just "deciding" to cancel a cruise just for the heck of it a week from the sailing date. Doing so would absolutely break my heart.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[NHBob]

Yes, I never get the HAL insurance ... not anymore ... not when I realized how expensive it was. I use third party vendors and get a good deal, including pre-existing conditions coverage ... which was never a big issue in the past, but has now become one due to some recent health concerns.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

 

You and your companions must be a lot younger than I am. When I travel solo I always find third party insurance considerably more expensive than the cruise lines' because all of the third party companies I have checked base premiums on average age of the passengers - I'm in my 70s. The only time I've found third party insurance more economical when I've taken my family along, 6 people ranging from pre-teens to old like me! Anybody know of a travel insurance company that doesn't age discriminate?

 

Getting back to original subject of this thread, HAL's billing for insurance at time of booking: HAL is the only line I have encountered that does this; Cunard, Crystal, Regent, Celebrity and MSC have always billed insurance with final payment. Another poster noted taht this is also true for Princess. I find it puzzeling that two of these lines, like HAL, are Carnival owned, so I guess we shouldn't blame Carnival for HAL's billing policies.

 

Another thing HAL will sneak in if you don't check: they automatically include transfers, whether you need them or not - you have to tell them to deduct these costs. Not only that, if you fail to have them remove the transfers before final payment, they will charge you $4 or so cancellation fee for each one!

[Taxguy77]

Generally speaking, I think most people do not have a clue about the trip insurance they buy and they make a lot of assumptions. I was once one of them.:o

 

I have a few clues, but am FAR from making an arrest:o

Every year I go over all my insurances with my agent, and find something new every time.:eek:

[Jade13]

HA needs to review their "policy" of predatory insurance sales.

 

Grandma books a sailing for February of 2008 ...

she is told she MUST BUY INSURANCE at the time of booking. She is not told it is non refundable.

 

Grandma cancels 7 months before the departure, and HA refunds only the cruise portion of her deposit and POCKETS $600+ for the insurance.

 

HA has 7 months to sell the cabin to someone else. I could see 60-90 for non refundable insurance, but 10 months? Yes, I've heard that the rules are "on the website", but Grandma doesn't do the web.

 

SHAME ON YOU! Stealing Grandma's money like that.

 

I hope the Shameless Commerce Division of HA is satisfied!

 

 

That about sums it up! I am waiting to hear back from a supervisor we will see what they say.

 

Ybarber your little Harley is sooo cute are Yorkies not the best! Mine is Humphrey Bogart or Bogie for short. He is four and I love him sooo much.

 

My prayers are with your son that he is safe.

 

But, no insurance premiums are refundable. The difference with another company is you can (my understanding) transfer it to another vacation, vs HAL only for HAL.

[Jade13]

Holland America took care of me I am satisfied with the resolution. Thank you for your kind words and support. I hope to sail with you in the future.

 

Great to hear. Did the agent not deny that she never told you the insurance was not refundable? Was this a new agent? Also, how many days ago did you purchase/book your cruise?

[mikjr]

HAL collects the insurance money when booking. Princess delays it until final payment. That's just the way it is. If you cancel before final payment is due, though, HAL will let you put the insurance towards a different trip.

 

Why not try a third party trip insurance company? much cheaper, same or better coverage, and you don't pay until final payment!

[ONSEAS]

If it is in fact an insurance policy, that is very important because if it is simply an agreement then the word Insurance can't be used. #1. Who is the Company that is offering the insurance? Is it Holland American Insurance Company? A Company must be licensed to sell insurance. Companies can not go around offering insurance unless they meet all the requirements of an insurance Company. #2. The Policy must be filed with the State Department of Insurance which would include the terms and conditions of the policy. Does anyone know what State the Insurance Company they are using is domiciled in? That State regulates the policy? If there is complaints a written notice is given to the Department of Insurance in that State and it is taken very serious and they contact the Insurance Company for their side and all details. #3. most states that regulate medical, life, etc., require that the consumer be given at least a "10 day free look period" .

[nik953]

If it is in fact an insurance policy, that is very important because if it is simply an agreement then the word Insurance can't be used. #1. Who is the Company that is offering the insurance? Is it Holland American Insurance Company? A Company must be licensed to sell insurance. Companies can not go around offering insurance unless they meet all the requirements of an insurance Company. #2. The Policy must be filed with the State Department of Insurance which would include the terms and conditions of the policy. Does anyone know what State the Insurance Company they are using is domiciled in? That State regulates the policy? If there is complaints a written notice is given to the Department of Insurance in that State and it is taken very serious and they contact the Insurance Company for their side and all details. #3. most states that regulate medical, life, etc., require that the consumer be given at least a "10 day free look period" .

 

 

If you read HAL's website, it does not refer to the "insurance" as so. It refers to it as Standard Cancellation Protection Plan (CPP Standard Plan) and Platinum Cancellation Protection Plan (CPP Platinum Plan). From what I gather, the Platinum adds an additional insurance benifit that is administered through a company called BerkelyCare.