Job w/ Holland America

[SakeDad]

Nathan--well, while we were on board, you sure didn't show all the stress that you were under! You were most diplomatic, but I sure can understand your frustrations and don't blame you for deciding to exit out of a bad situation. As you know, we thought all the cast shows, especially the cast shows, and most of the visiting entertainers were wonderful. You did a great job! Welcome home!

 

Virginia and I hope to see you soon--we've got some pics to share with you!

The magic of theatre is that the theatre patron never sees the insanity behind the curtain...that's what makes it magic! It should always appear to be the easiest and most pleasant of jobs in the world, and I'm glad I portrayed that through my mayhem on the Eurodam.

I would absolutely LOVE to get with you and Virginia as soon as you're available! I'm totally free and can meet when and where you would like! Feel free to email me at VegasPlay at cox dot net anytime. Lisa also has my contact info if you want to get it from her. I look forward to seeing you both soon!:)

[Kolleen]

Sakedad - as Kiana's mom I can say that I am really grateful she went to the Noordam. She had a totally different experience than you did. The previous Stagemanager stayed on to train her for a 10 day cruise before leaving her. She was given great support by Drew the CD and her assistant Marlon, and many others who work on board. I know from talking to her that it hasn't always been easy, no new job is, but she has persevered and adjusted happily to ship board life.

 

As for seeing the world, when she took the job she told me she didn't expect to leave the ship for the first month because she wanted to make sure she knew what she was doing before she went ashore. It turns out she was able to go ashore earlier than that and has really enjoyed seeing the Med.

 

Being on an inaugural cruise would have been difficult for a HAL trained Stagemanager. I can imagine how difficult it would be for a last minute new hire. I am glad you made a decision that is making you happy. That is what's important.

 

We are busy shopping for things she would like us to bring her, as she has extended her contract at HALs request. I am bringing a suitcase of stuff just for her. Good thing I was trying to pack light.

[thecook]

SakeDad, I'm glad you are home and happy. I have a son who is an entertainment electrician. He had his first gig w/ Ringling Brothers. He considered going out on a cruiseship when he tired of the circus, but was advised by seasoned contacts in the business to avoid the ships if he could. Although the experience on the job would have been valuable...the negitives outweighed to positives. Lucky for him, he was contacted by a production company and did traveling Broadway for several years. You are in a tough business..but I can hear it is in your blood..as it is my son's. Best wishes for your future endeavours...:D

[jhannah]

Nathan, thank you for sharing your story. As an HR manager for 16 years, I can think of no more deplorable method of a company employing someone than what you experienced. And the way you were treated ("valued") as a critical member of the team! Crikey!

 

I'm glad you're home and resting. I will "amen" Bill's comment about your conduct while we were aboard for the prelude and inaugural sailings. Your diplomacy was a great example for all employees, many of whom grouse and complain about their situation to customers/guests.

 

Hope to see you again soon.

[kryos]

Even though you may have a position that you think you can get off in port you may have duties that require you to stay on board. Pay in most cases is far less than on land and you are at work 24/7.

I spent a wonderful day in Oahu with a bunch of the people from the Amsterdam cast in January, 2006. We were all making tandem skydives at Skydive Hawaii. I believe the one singer told me that they can get off at pretty much all the ports. They rotate a duty called "port manning," though ... so there will be one or two ports on each itinerary when they can't leave the ship at all. They work this out amongst themselves so that if someone really wants to see a certain port, but doesn't care about another one, they can often switch off with someone else in their department for the manning duties.

 

Apparently there must be a set number of people ALWAYS on the ship, whether the ship is in port or not, and even if all they do is sit in their staterooms or sun at the pool, they still have to be onboard in case there is an emergency of some sort.

 

But some jobs, like waiters, cabin stewards, cooks, etc. ... the amount of work they have to do each day doesn't change whether they are in port or not. Cabins still need to be cleaned, the evening meal prepared, lunch served for those passengers who opted not to get off the ship, etc. So those poor folks, if they are lucky, may get to leave the ship for a few hours in one or two of the ports on an itinerary and that's it ... because when they are off the ship, co-workers have to cover their workstations, and that's an extra burden on them.

 

Like I said, jobs like future cruise consultant, entertainer, cruise staff, etc. ... those jobs allow for a lot of time in ports because those people really don't have much work to do while a ship is in port. Maybe one person from the cruise staff may be left onboard at each port to run the few activities needed to keep passengers happy, and to serve as the "port manning" person from his department, and since they generally rotate this duty, that allows a lot of time for people who work in these departments to see the world.

 

I would say that the people in the gift shops, casino, etc., have great jobs, but personally I don't think they do. Yes, they may be off when a ship is in port because the shops and casino is closed, but then when a ship is at sea they will often work from early morning until late at night. They may also have duties even when the ship is in port, especially if the store has taken on more stock in that port. They will have to check everything in and stock the shelves on that port day. So, yes, while these people too get a lot of time to wander around in the ports, they pay for that time with some brutally long days in between.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

He sat with me and showed me how to fill out a repair request and told me who to send it to. The next morning I got a response saying I didn't need to do it that way, I could just tell someone and they would do it, which actually made my job easier.

I've never worked on a ship, but I sure have worked in business for many years, including as a front line supervisor responsible for training employees in the complexities of a multi-faceted data center workload. So, I know at least a little bit about training new employees because I've done it.

 

I cannot BELIEVE that HAL was foolish enough to assign a brand new stage manager to a brand new ship. HAL should have moved a seasoned stage manager over from another ship, and then assigned you to his old ship. Ideally, they should have had the both of you on his old ship, working together for a couple of cruises ... but sometimes that's just not possible in this time of tight budgets and hiring freezes. But still, there should have been a ready support system in place for you if you were replacing someone who was moved to the Eurodam ... the cruise director and his staff, assistant or back-up stage managers, etc., who you could have gone to for advice and instruction.

 

But you don't take a brand new hire and throw them into the high pressure situation of getting a brand new ship's entertainment department up and running, even if that employee is a seasoned stage manager on land. It's just not practical and will never work. No matter how experienced you are, you need to learn the HAL-specific policies, procedures and techniques. For the job on a brand new ship such as the Eurodam, you take a seasoned HAL person from another ship ... someone who is very familiar with HAL policies and procedures ... such as how to order batteries for the mics ... and move them over to the new ship. I have no doubt that anyone thrown into the situation you were would have walked ... and probably a lot sooner than you did.

 

Someone at HAL corporate made a very bad decision there, no question about that.

 

Sorry things didn't work out for you, but not surprised.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[whenzuc]

Have you thought about sending your comments to HAL Corporate Executive in charge of Human Resources and the President? I would send this and the closing paragraph should be that you summarized for them a great case study for senior manangement in examining poor documentation of job descriptions, and very poor execution of training and development, and respect for the individual. I would ask that they respond to your comments, especially since there was so much press about the Eurodam. When you copy the President, their assistant is usually given the job to research and resolve. I would, and I would also mention the costs that you incurred to get home. Never know- maybe after reading the course of events and doing a bit of confirming from ship managment they will refund your fare home. Even if they don't repay you, if it was me, I'd send the letter to see how senior corporate management responds to your comments.

[Kolleen]

LolaWiz - I will give her your email the next time she is online.

 

For those looking at jobs, I had found this thread before Kiana left, so we had an idea of the kinds of hours and the amount of different things she would be doing on board besides just stagemanaging.

 

http://smnetwork.org/forum/index.php/topic,1558.0.html

 

I would suggest anyone considering a job on a ship do some internet research to see what others have to say about the particular job you are looking for.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

LolaWiz - I will give her your email the next time she is online.

 

For those looking at jobs, I had found this thread before Kiana left, so we had an idea of the kinds of hours and the amount of different things she would be doing on board besides just stagemanaging.

 

http://smnetwork.org/forum/index.php/topic,1558.0.html

 

I would suggest anyone considering a job on a ship do some internet research to see what others have to say about the particular job you are looking for.

Rhonda, I just wanted to say BON VOYAGE to you:)

You are going to love the Noordam she just has that very special feel and I would so love for the Noordam to be here on the West Coast .

Tell Kiana hello from all the Yummers.

We are all keeping our fingers crossed she get's transferred to the Oosterdam so you can join us for the Yummer's II with all the other returning Yummers

[cf_chuck]

I do believe that there is a real disconnect between "Corporate" in Seattle and the reality of ship life. The hiring issue is a problem as well as the training that SHOULD take place but does not because of lack of proper staffing.

 

Based on Nathan's story, I agree that there is a disconnect. However, I don't agree that the disconnect is due (in general) to the lack of attention to training or because of a lack in proper staffing.

 

I was happy for Nathan when he announced that he was hired as stage manager for the E'dam. I did find it surprising that the position was filled at such a late date. Given the attention that has been reported for training in other areas (e.g. the Tamarind) and the high percentage of crew that were seasoned (some reports say 80%), it appears to me that HAL was aware of the need to have a sufficient core of seasoned veterans in key positions.

 

I can't imagine the position of "stage manager" being excluded from the key positions list, but stranger things have happened. Based on other reports, it seems that HAL does pay attention, at least in some cases, to ensuring stage managers are sufficiently trained to assume roles by having them work with a seasoned stage manager before being left to their own.

 

HAL doesn't launch a new build that frequently, so perhaps (speculation) it doesn't have a groved swing when it comes to these types of happenings. Speculating again, I suspect that something happened that the individual originally hired / designated for the position suddenly backed out, leaving HAL in a lurch and with HAL asking Nathan to fill the breach. It's unlikely that we'll ever get the complete story, as HAL doesn't make these kinds of personnel matters public (and wisely so. IMO).

 

And to Nathan, I'm sorry that things didn't work out, I acknowledge the excitement you expressed at the position. I hope that you are able to find something suitable on your home turf.

[PathfinderEss]

Thanks SakeDad for posting your story, I for one wonder why you were back home so early and now I understand why. Your story is not unlike a friend we have who has worked on an off for Hal since 2000, so I am not totally unaware of some of Hal's working practice, which can undeniably leave a lot to be desired but to be fair you could say that about a lot of other companies these days.

[mariner]

Don't forget to bring your own soap, shampoo and laundry detergent.

 

As for writing HAL's HR, I wouldn't advise it. Sake's experience seems to reflect much of coporate America these days.

[Copper10-8]

Nathan, sorry to hear things didn't work out on Eurodam! Here's hoping, that, when you're ready for it, you hit the ground running and are soon back at work on some stage in Vegas! Have you seen Mamma Mia, the movie yet?

[madelinerose]

Nathan, wow, you ultimately made the best decision....you left.

 

Remember, everything happens for a reason. Good luck. ;)

[RevNeal]

Bless you, Nathan. Thank you for sharing enough of the story on the board so that your friends, here, have some idea of why you did what you did. And, as you are well aware, you made the absolute right decision.

 

I look forward to seeing you again, sometime. It was, truly, a pleasure getting to meet you aboard ship, even though the circumstances were not the best. And, as I've said elsewhere, one of my most cherished memories of the Eurodam Inaugurals will be of you and Ruth singing a duet of "Let me Entertain You" ... so sultry Marilyn Monroe would have approved. :D

[Jade13]

Well, this is as good a time as any to tell what happened to me. I will NOT use this space to bash anyone but I will let you know why I am no longer with HAL.

I sent my resume to HAL in February and never heard a word from anyone. Then the beginning of June I was called and asked how soon I could get to Venice, Italy to be the Stage Manager for the brand new Eurodam, still being built! Mind you, this was NOT an interview it was a job offer with no interview. The only thing I made sure to say was that I am not a sound/lighting/automation technician, I am a Theatrical Stage Manager and I was assured by two people that that was exactly what they needed. I was called on Saturday and on the ship in Venice by Thursday! They had fired the other Stage Manager for DUI. I had 3 weeks to learn 5 shows and the ways of the ship. It was exhausting but no more so than any other time I do production on a big show. I'm used to it and I'm good at it. All of the shows were up and running very well by the time they needed to be as several people on this board can tell you.

HOWEVER....during this process there was no Cruise Director and the CD is the one that is supposed to give me all the info about shipboard life and how to set things up. I had no support for that. I was told not bring workclothes as I would be given uniforms, those didn't show for several weeks and I had to buy clothes in Venice at my own expense as a result. I was told by one set of people (mainly Stiletto) that I was only to worry about the showroom and shows there. That is what I was told before going as well. But others onboard (Events Manager, HAL corporate) had me in charge of the Lounge Tech, setting up meetings, setting up and breaking down the HAL Cats all over the ship, setting up all the other special events all over the ship, etc...and again, with no support from other management. When the Cruise Director, Shane Michaels, did finally arrive to the ship he had to hit the ground running as well and was shocked to find out I didn't know all the things he was supposed to have told me. Not his fault I didn't know but it was his fault when he never took the time to tell me and occasionally steered me in the wrong direction once he was there.

I had a couple of meetings with the Events Manager about all this and it would get better for a day then something else would happen. Everyday it was something else and the lack of communication and support onboard was astonishing to me. I also saw it shipwide and in many departments. I realized this was not going to get better before it got worse and decided the lack of money, 18 hour days and constantly being blamed for not knowing things others were resposible for telling me just wasn't worth it. I had to actually battle to get off in ports (Alesund was the first time I got off).

I realize that 70% of the problems I had was because it was a new build and there was never anyone there to train me on how to set things up. But when I needed batteries to run the show management seemed shocked. I guess they use solar powered mics on all the other ships.:rolleyes: But things like that that should have been set up long before I ever arrived were the very things I had to set up and got no support in doing so.

I offered to transfer to another Vista ship but they said that wasn't an option so I paid for my own flight home from Copenhagen and have been resting for a week now.

I should also say I got very sick and lost my voice for several days, had a broken big toe as a piano ran over and worked through all of that. I'm not a wimp or complainer but I'm also a professional Stage Manager who knows what to expect in a job and from a company.

Had this only been the job they promised, one where I was only in charge of the theatre and shows and not the rest of the ship I'm sure I'd still be there. But alas that was not my case.

I hope anyone going for a job with any cruise line thoroughly researches it and ends up happier than I did.

Good luck.

 

SakeDad, thank you for the update. I recall seeing something posted about you working on the ship and recall thinking "I didn't know he worked for HAL".

 

I have a question? Who decides what the shows will be, as well as the special entertainment? We just got off of the Noordam and it was both our most disappointing HAL cruise and most disappointing cruise overall (we still had a good time because the ports were great) BUT, so much was off on this ship. I was told they were short staffed because crew could not get flights so we had a steward (liked him personally) who came up from the crew cabins and had never done turndown before. Bert, the CD, told me they couldn't get their shipment released from customs out of Liverno so were very short on Elemis products to the point we had to call for shampoo and soap. The Sharp Shower Gel bottles were filled with green stuff. Room service breakfast (we orderd cereal) came with warm milk each morning, lacked the number of milks requested, and one time came with no spoons. My steak in the Pinnacle was not good and the waiter was told when he asked and never offered a replacement.

 

Regarding the entertainment on Noordam, because a new group of dancers and singers boarded for our cruise on July 26, there was no show the first night. This was poor planning by HAL as they should have been prepared to have a special entertainer who was there for the 20 nights go on stage. Another night there was no entertainment with the exception of the 11:00pm crew show. There was a comedian from the UK (who we did not like) and my DH had heard his jokes before and then he is brought back another night. One night the Vista Lounge was used for an Idol like contest so it seems like they were looking for fill in. The Finale was good BUT it was the same Paparrazi show we saw in 2007. Why?

[Kolleen]

Stiletto puts the cast shows together. HAL corp hires the guest entertainers.

 

Bert is the Hotel Manager

Drew is the Cruise Director

 

Superstar has been on the ships a while. Sometimes it is in the evenings and sometimes in the afternoon.

[Jade13]

Stiletto puts the cast shows together. HAL corp hires the guest entertainers.

 

Bert is the Hotel Manager

Drew is the Cruise Director

 

Superstar has been on the ships a while. Sometimes it is in the evenings and sometimes in the afternoon.

 

I know and meant to say Bert is the Hotel Manager. We had him on Westerdam last year and he showed up both times to our CC Meet & Greet. He is good and we like him.

 

We saw some of the SuperStar on the TV and DH thought it was funny. My main comment is that when it is in the show lounge after dinner (I'd have to check my schedule for the exact time) it appears to be used as fill in since there was no professional entertainment that evening. Even last year on Westerdam (we did the other half of this btb cruise) the night in Barcelona they brought on local entertainment/dancers prior to the crew show. That did not happen on this "Roman Empire" half of the cruise.

 

One positive I will say is that HAL now hands out cold towels upon embarkation and it was at all ports. There towels were dipped in mint and smelled great.

[SakeDad]

I have a question? Who decides what the shows will be, as well as the special entertainment?

Regarding the entertainment on Noordam, because a new group of dancers and singers boarded for our cruise on July 26, there was no show the first night. This was poor planning by HAL as they should have been prepared to have a special entertainer who was there for the 20 nights go on stage. Another night there was no entertainment with the exception of the 11:00pm crew show. There was a comedian from the UK (who we did not like) and my DH had heard his jokes before and then he is brought back another night. One night the Vista Lounge was used for an Idol like contest so it seems like they were looking for fill in. The Finale was good BUT it was the same Paparrazi show we saw in 2007. Why?

I can only (barely) address your entertainment questions. Stiletto Entertainment out of LA is in charge of all the "production" shows. In other words, anything that utilizes the singers and dancers employeed by them. These are very tightly scripted and don't allow for the cast to waver one iota from show to show as it all runs by automation and if they are late or early they can risk serious injury. As Stage Manager I called the cues but it was all very tight.

As for The Idol show I was lucky and missed it the night it was on my ship (it was only on once while I was there before quitting), I understand it was good but I don't like it on TV and hate kareoke so would do all possible to avoid it!

Interesting you had a UK comedian as that is where all mine were from too. But I thoroughly enjoyed mine and while some jokes may not have been "original" they were great to work with. But as stated above HAL Corporate books these and either has a history with these acts or has only seen a video before booking them. Most acts have never been seen in person before being hired for ships.

As to why you will see the same show on multiple ships and for multiple years there is one very simple answer.....$$$$$$$$

It costs tens of thousands (sometimes more) to replace a show. There are the months of rehearsals, wardrobe, new sets, transport of wardrobe, sets and props to the ship, rehearsal time onboard to make sure it all works. Cost of bringing the design teams onboard (usually at least 10 people) and it just doesn't warrent being done more than every few years. I can give you a hint...if you don't want to see the same shows, stay off the same class of ship. The theatres are built different on each class so each class, for the most part, will have different shows. Remember that 90% of passengers never see the same show again so it's not worth spending all that money every year for the 10% that have. This applies to land/Vegas etc.. as well. Casinos don't change their show as long as it sells....take Jubilee at Bally's that has been there 20+ years.

Hope this answered some of your questions.:)

[sail7seas]

Isn't Bill Prince in charge of Entertainment for HAL?

 

[SakeDad]

And that would be HAL Corporate. I'm not sure how much he has to do with the guest entertainers, though. He was very involved with all the Inauguration events for the Eurodam. I worked closely with him on alot of that. I will say I throughly enjoyed working with him while he was aboard. But alas, he and everyone else leaves and your left on the ship without much support. I didn't get the impression that I could reach out to them for anything. None of them said goodbye or said, call if you need anything. They all just left one day.:(

[Kolleen]

The mint towels sound nice, especially where it is hot out.

[SakeDad]

Bless you, Nathan. Thank you for sharing enough of the story on the board so that your friends, here, have some idea of why you did what you did. And, as you are well aware, you made the absolute right decision.

 

I look forward to seeing you again, sometime. It was, truly, a pleasure getting to meet you aboard ship, even though the circumstances were not the best. And, as I've said elsewhere, one of my most cherished memories of the Eurodam Inaugurals will be of you and Ruth singing a duet of "Let me Entertain You" ... so sultry Marilyn Monroe would have approved. :D

That will always be a top memory for me too!!! One of the main reasons I was able to stay with reality and realize I had options was having you, Ruth, Scotty, Adele, Bill, Virginia, Jim, Copper and everyone else who always reminded me I had a life to come back home to. Not that any of you were responsible for me leaving but you were there to help me stay grounded in reality and I thank everyone for that. Thank you for always being there for me and for listening to my rants and for caring. I truly appreciate it!:D I hope to see you soon,

Nathan

[fcorey]

Nathan, its HAL's loss... welcome home, and enjoy your much deserved break

[Julia_B]

My question for this forum is, has anyone worked aboard a HAL ship/or know anyone who has? Any info. would be amazing--crew food, pay compared with other lines, etc.?

Wish me luck!!!

Yes, I work on board of a hal ship.

As said before you can have breakfast, lunch and dinner in the lido, between the passangers, although for dinner there is a special side for officers/consessioners

pay: on other lines you can earn more. You will earn less then $100 a day.

I'm not sure about the dj but for cruise staff you will be with 2 in a cabin.

Let me know if you have more questions.