Farewell to QE2's Funnel?

[SSL]

Hi everyone, I don't know if this has been posted or talked about before, and I don't know how much I'd believe what's written (none of it I hope!), but I thought I'd post it just in case, for discussion sake:

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/3648903.Final_farewell_to_QE2___s_distinctive_red_funnel_/

 

Let's hope this isn't true!

[rjms74]

I sadly think the ship is going to change beyond all recognition & it's still a great shame that Cunard deemed it necessary to sale off all the on board artwork!!!!! which would have been much better placed / at home on QV or QM2!!!!

 

 

RJMS74

[Guest Anorak33]

I sadly think the ship is going to change beyond all recognition & it's still a great shame that Cunard deemed it necessary to sale off all the on board artwork!!!!! which would have been much better placed / at home on QV or QM2!!!!

 

 

RJMS74

 

You are absolutely right, its a crime. I am not so bothered about the ship in as much as its a better fate than the Norway has - being broken up - but all the artefacts on board should be removed and preserved for posterity, preferably where they may be seen everyday by cruisers who actually find them interesting and can relate to them.

[Vic The Parrot]

Very depressing! :(

[BalticPat22]

 

 

Let's hope the world will be able to see her leave like this, and not have her steam off in complete darkness and secrecy like the article says may happen. The RMS Queen Elizabeth 2 is a part of maritime history. It would be a travesty for her to be "re-vamped" into a commercialized hub where money is the only thing that matters. Let her stay the way she is, so that the people of Dubai can wake up everyday and see her majestic beauty, unchanged.

[3rdGenCunarder]

Let's hope the world will be able to see her leave like this, and not have her steam off in complete darkness and secrecy like the article says may happen. The RMS Queen Elizabeth 2 is a part of maritime history. It would be a travesty for her to be "re-vamped" into a commercialized hub where money is the only thing that matters. Let her stay the way she is, so that the people of Dubai can wake up everyday and see her majestic beauty, unchanged.

 

I think the idea of her leaving in the dark is so that there can be a celebration with fireworks. I'm sure Soton won't let her go without a decent goodbye. Remember, she won't be slinking off empty. She will be sailing with a full load of passengers who will expect a good sendoff.

[Cruachan]

I think the idea of her leaving in the dark is so that there can be a celebration with fireworks. I'm sure Soton won't let her go without a decent goodbye. Remember, she won't be slinking off empty. She will be sailing with a full load of passengers who will expect a good sendoff.

 

It's also probably got a lot to do with the fact that she's departing in mid November when it will be dark (even as far south as Soton) by about 4.30 in the afternoon.

 

J

[stowaway2k]

whoops!

 

[guernseyguy]

I'm sorry - I don't buy this 'preserved in aspic' dirge. Where were you all when they removed her original funnel (as the picture above shows) That had to go because it was no longer fit for purpose. The QE2's current funnel serves a purpose - an exhaust for 9 great diesel engines - they are going to be removed - so the current funnel will serve no purpose either. By all means, go ahead and replace it with something funnel shaped that will serve a purpose - preferably revenue earning - after all, we want the 'new' QE2 to be a success in her new home too, don't we?

[SSL]

Yes, I want to see her become a success in her new home, that's why I want to see Dubai keep the ship as original as possible.

It kind of reminds me of the old "George Washington's axe" paradox story, where the 'original' axe is on display in a museum, though the blade and handle have since been replaced.

How much of the QE2 can they take away or change before she's no longer the QE2? The funnel, with her Cunard colors, is so much a part of her at this point, I don't know if she'd still seem like the same ship with a glass-encased-suite-filled-faux-funnel there instead.

Dubai really should learn from Long Beach's mistakes. In the 60's, they ripped out all of the Queen Mary's engines, thinking no one cared about them, and that they would use the space for a Jacques Cousteau exhibit. They did much the same with almost all of the areas relating to 2nd and 3rd class, either removing them, or relegating them to employee or office use, thinking no one would want to see anything but the luxury of First Class. But of course, now, the public is interested in the large engines that powered these great ships, and would like to see the differences between the classes, but they can't see those things. They're pretty much all gone.

We can't know what will bring people to Dubai to see the QE2, especially in another twenty or thirty years. But I can only assume that, no matter how flashy, or how much money Dubai has spent, it will not be whatever they add to, or construct alongside the ship, but the ship itself.

[Cruachan]

Yes, I want to see her become a success in her new home, that's why I want to see Dubai keep the ship as original as possible.

 

Steve,

 

your post has neatly encapsulated what, for me at least, is the whole problem with the ship going to Dubai in the first place. She has not been purchased with the intention of using her as a museum ship or as a tribute to the glory days of the transatlantic liners.

 

They have purchased her with the sole intention of turning her into yet another luxury hotel (one that just happens to float). In order for this to be viable they will have to run the hotel at a very considerable profit and if that means reducing her to her outer shell with the interior completely and utterly rebuilt, then that is exactly what they will do. They will own the hulk when all's said and done. I have said it before on here, and I am quite prepared to say it again. If there was no way that she could continue to operate as a ship, then she should have been broken up. However painful that may be for some people, it is her inevitable fate anyway when she ceases to make a profit as a hotel or when her new owners get bored with the expense of keeping her afloat.

 

J

[bobnatt]

Yes, I want to see her become a success in her new home, that's why I want to see Dubai keep the ship as original as possible.

It kind of reminds me of the old "George Washington's axe" paradox story, where the 'original' axe is on display in a museum, though the blade and handle have since been replaced.

How much of the QE2 can they take away or change before she's no longer the QE2? The funnel, with her Cunard colors, is so much a part of her at this point, I don't know if she'd still seem like the same ship with a glass-encased-suite-filled-faux-funnel there instead.

Dubai really should learn from Long Beach's mistakes. In the 60's, they ripped out all of the Queen Mary's engines, thinking no one cared about them, and that they would use the space for a Jacques Cousteau exhibit. They did much the same with almost all of the areas relating to 2nd and 3rd class, either removing them, or relegating them to employee or office use, thinking no one would want to see anything but the luxury of First Class. But of course, now, the public is interested in the large engines that powered these great ships, and would like to see the differences between the classes, but they can't see those things. They're pretty much all gone.

We can't know what will bring people to Dubai to see the QE2, especially in another twenty or thirty years. But I can only assume that, no matter how flashy, or how much money Dubai has spent, it will not be whatever they add to, or construct alongside the ship, but the ship itself.

 

 

Folks, you don't get it. The ship will no longer be the QE2 even though it may retain its name. You have no right to demand that the new owners not make changes that they think are necessary to protect their economic interests. At the end of the day it is a bunch of recycled steel being molded into a new use as a luxury hotel.

 

Perhaps they can replace the funnel with a cell tower...

[cruisegal101]

Folks, you don't get it. The ship will no longer be the QE2 even though it may retain its name. You have no right to demand that the new owners not make changes that they think are necessary to protect their economic interests. At the end of the day it is a bunch of recycled steel being molded into a new use as a luxury hotel.

 

Perhaps they can replace the funnel with a cell tower...

 

the QE2 master of envy strikes again.. Don't you have something better to do than critique everyone's respect for the world's greatest ocean liner? Get a life...

__________________

[bobnatt]

Steve,

 

your post has neatly encapsulated what, for me at least, is the whole problem with the ship going to Dubai in the first place. She has not been purchased with the intention of using her as a museum ship or as a tribute to the glory days of the transatlantic liners.

 

They have purchased her with the sole intention of turning her into yet another luxury hotel (one that just happens to float). In order for this to be viable they will have to run the hotel at a very considerable profit and if that means reducing her to her outer shell with the interior completely and utterly rebuilt, then that is exactly what they will do. They will own the hulk when all's said and done. I have said it before on here, and I am quite prepared to say it again. If there was no way that she could continue to operate as a ship, then she should have been broken up. However painful that may be for some people, it is her inevitable fate anyway when she ceases to make a profit as a hotel or when her new owners get bored with the expense of keeping her afloat.

 

J

 

Wait, after the first set of renovations, fasten your seat belts for the second set where they will be putting additions onto the main structure such as a multiplex theater, or an outlet mall, or a theme park. They will put a roller coaster on the top deck, or "back to the future" ride in the Queens Grill.

[garigoun]

Folks, you don't get it. The ship will no longer be the QE2 even though it may retain its name. You have no right to demand that the new owners not make changes that they think are necessary to protect their economic interests. At the end of the day it is a bunch of recycled steel being molded into a new use as a luxury hotel.

Perhaps they can replace the funnel with a cell tower...

 

 

Bobnatt, Cruachan, it’s no use, the bold Cunardeers must have their moment of high tragedy. No appeals to sense, economic or otherwise or to ownership rights will have any effect. They will sob their way to Dubai pausing only to rip off anything they can from their ‘belovéd Queen’ in their quest for souvenirs. The pipes will skirl their lament, the world will never be the same again, end of an era, di dah di dah di dah.

A goodly number of them will make a point of visiting the new hotel just so they can come away suitably horrified.

I think the only solution would be for the new owners to cut it up into pieces approximately the size of a Cunard boarding card, box them up with a certificate authenticating it as ‘Genuine QE2 Steel’ and flog them off at £1000 a kick. They’d recoup their outlay in a week. As the late P.T. Barnum observed ‘there’s one born every minute’

Gari.

[cruisegal101]

Wait, after the first set of renovations, fasten your seat belts for the second set where they will be putting additions onto the main structure such as a multiplex theater, or an outlet mall, or a theme park. They will put a roller coaster on the top deck, or "back to the future" ride in the Queens Grill.

 

I realize that you are really just trying to mask your envy and to wind up the QE2 lovers, but it is truly a shame that you never had the opportunity to sail on the ship--and I mean this in the most sincere way possible. It is hard to understand the difference between a cruise ship and an ocean liner unless you have been there and done it. :)

[vjmatty]

Folks, you don't get it. The ship will no longer be the QE2 even though it may retain its name. You have no right to demand that the new owners not make changes that they think are necessary to protect their economic interests. At the end of the day it is a bunch of recycled steel being molded into a new use as a luxury hotel.

 

Perhaps they can replace the funnel with a cell tower...

 

I don't see any demands here bob... I think there is just a hope that the new owners do some research into what was done with the Queen Mary. No reason for you to get all in a tizzy.

 

Honestly I don't know what jollies you get from posting on threads that involve a ship you have never sailed on and know little about. Is your life so unfulfilled that you need to take shots at those who have interests different from yours? People come here to talk about issues and ideas involving Cunard and their ships. Are your areas of interest so limited that you need to create drama and conflict in this manner?

 

"Great minds talk about ideas, small minds talk about people". I believe that was Eleanor Roosevelt.

[Blazerboy]

Ginny, first drink...no, make that first TWO, in the Chart Room are on me!:D

 

Andrew

[garigoun]

I

Honestly I don't know what jollies you get from posting on threads that involve a ship you have never sailed on and know little about. Is your life so unfulfilled that you need to take shots at those who have interests different from yours? People come here to talk about issues and ideas involving Cunard and their ships. Are your areas of interest so limited that you need to create drama and conflict in this manner?

 

But is not Bobnatt just as entitled to air his views here as anyone else. Most people on this board have a very particular view of the QE2. He happens to have a different view. Even though he has not sailed on it surely he is entitled to his opinion on the fact of her disposal. Is one not entitled to comment on the situation in Zimbabwe if one has never been there? As far as I can remember it is the manner in which the ship’s devotees tend to over-egg the pudding when talking about it that prompts his comments as indeed it does mine from time to time.True he has an irreverent style of expressing his self, as do I, but he makes some valid points and I have noticed a tendency to greet his posts with a fair amount of personal criticism.

 

The whole thing about the last days of this ship is assuming the status of a Greek tragedy. And it is not a tragedy. What it is, is a superannuated ship being disposed of by its owners because either it is no longer a viable business proposition or they have made the judgement that they can make more money by selling it than by running it. If there was a couple more dollars profit still to squeezed out of it greater than the purchase price then they would run it and run it until those enormous engines fell straight through her rusted out hull.

 

My frequently aired views on the deification of this ship are well known on this board, however, (there’s that pesky word again), in all seriousness, no one can deny that it is indeed a beautiful ship. And yes, it has more log under its bottom than any other. It played its part, as did the earlier Queens in a war. It has ferried thousands to a new life in the new world and thousands more have sailed on it for pleasure and business. There are millions of memories tied up in this boat and it holds a very special place in many, many hearts. Its unique outline has made it instantly recognisable the world over and thus it has become iconic.

 

But new ships are being built every day, new designs; more efficient power plants, different in practically every aspect from the 40-year-old Queen. And who knows, one of these new vessels may capture the imagination as she has done. The sanctification of the QM2 is already well under way. (Although I well remember many of the people who visited her in New York when the tandem crossing took place coming back to the QE2 with nothing but derision for this upstart ‘floating apartment block’. The condemnation was almost universal, I lost count of the number of times I heard the phrase, ‘Well you won’t catch me on it’. ‘Vulgar Monstrosity’. It was too big, it was too common, it had too much plastic.) Well I wonder how many of those people have since sailed on it. And let us not forget that in a very few years there will be a generation of cruisers who have never been on the QE2 and don’t know anyone who has and will have never seen it except in pictures. They will have their own icons, perhaps a ship not yet built. So while it is sad it is not a tragedy.

 

There is a tragedy though, and it is not the departure of this one ship. The tragedy is that any future ship which may become as well loved as this one obviously is will not be built in the UK. Therein lies the tragedy; the loss of the great shipbuilding yards and the skills, professions and crafts that went with them. The designers and draughtsmen, the platers, riveters, welders, the crane drivers and engineers, the labourers and the tea boys. The tragedy is in the extinction of steelworks that supplied the yards, the factories that were ancillary to the yards, and which provided the joinery and the carpets, the linens and the furniture and the thousand and one things needed for the big ships. The tragedy lies in the disappearance forever of the tiny one and two man operations that supplied the unique, the ‘one-offs’, the widgets and the sprocket-rockers. The tragedy lies in the fragmentation of the shipbuilding communities that serviced this great industry with the concomitant creeping rot of long-term unemployment and welfare dependency. It lies in the generations who have never had the pride, self-respect and self discipline that regular satisfying employment brings

Billy Connolly the Glasgow comedian worked in the yards and used to tell stories of his time there. A line of his has always remained with me. He said that every July the school gates would open on one side of the street and the shipyard gates on the other and the leaving class of that year would just cross over. A simplistic version of the actual event but it makes the point very neatly.

 

So when the QE2 makes her final voyage the tragedy will not lie in the voyage itself but in the fact that she is the last tangible link to a once great industry and power house of employment that was the lifeblood of Glasgow, Belfast, Liverpool and Tyneside and the other cities that grew and flourished on shipbuilding. From a nation of builders, engineers and craftsmen we are reduced to money manipulators and burger flippers.

 

So those of you who will be on board for the final trip, when you lift your glasses in salute, toast not just a ship which has reached the end of its seagoing life, but toast also a world vanished forever. Enjoy your last trip, if I’m honest I wish I was going myself.

(If only to prove that the bloody thing has actually gone).

I know that to many of you it will be an emotional and sad experience. Cheer up – ‘This too will pass’ just book another cruise.

 

On a slightly jarring note. I see from previous posts on the board that there seems to be a certain amount of salivating anticipation at the prospect of stealing as much as can be carried off this ship which is supposed to be so respected. A bit distasteful don’t you think It smacks a little of corpse robbing on a battlefield. Especially considering the reverence in which the ship is reputedly held.

Gari

[GAV BOY]

But is not Bobnatt just as entitled to air his views here as anyone else. Most people on this board have a very particular view of the QE2. He happens to have a different view. Even though he has not sailed on it surely he is entitled to his opinion on the fact of her disposal. Is one not entitled to comment on the situation in Zimbabwe if one has never been there? As far as I can remember it is the manner in which the ship’s devotees tend to over-egg the pudding when talking about it that prompts his comments as indeed it does mine from time to time.True he has an irreverent style of expressing his self, as do I, but he makes some valid points and I have noticed a tendency to greet his posts with a fair amount of personal criticism.

 

The whole thing about the last days of this ship is assuming the status of a Greek tragedy. And it is not a tragedy. What it is, is a superannuated ship being disposed of by its owners because either it is no longer a viable business proposition or they have made the judgement that they can make more money by selling it than by running it. If there was a couple more dollars profit still to squeezed out of it greater than the purchase price then they would run it and run it until those enormous engines fell straight through her rusted out hull.

 

My frequently aired views on the deification of this ship are well known on this board, however, (there’s that pesky word again), in all seriousness, no one can deny that it is indeed a beautiful ship. And yes, it has more log under its bottom than any other. It played its part, as did the earlier Queens in a war. It has ferried thousands to a new life in the new world and thousands more have sailed on it for pleasure and business. There are millions of memories tied up in this boat and it holds a very special place in many, many hearts. Its unique outline has made it instantly recognisable the world over and thus it has become iconic.

 

But new ships are being built every day, new designs; more efficient power plants, different in practically every aspect from the 40-year-old Queen. And who knows, one of these new vessels may capture the imagination as she has done. The sanctification of the QM2 is already well under way. (Although I well remember many of the people who visited her in New York when the tandem crossing took place coming back to the QE2 with nothing but derision for this upstart ‘floating apartment block’. The condemnation was almost universal, I lost count of the number of times I heard the phrase, ‘Well you won’t catch me on it’. ‘Vulgar Monstrosity’. It was too big, it was too common, it had too much plastic.) Well I wonder how many of those people have since sailed on it. And let us not forget that in a very few years there will be a generation of cruisers who have never been on the QE2 and don’t know anyone who has and will have never seen it except in pictures. They will have their own icons, perhaps a ship not yet built. So while it is sad it is not a tragedy.

 

There is a tragedy though, and it is not the departure of this one ship. The tragedy is that any future ship which may become as well loved as this one obviously is will not be built in the UK. Therein lies the tragedy; the loss of the great shipbuilding yards and the skills, professions and crafts that went with them. The designers and draughtsmen, the platers, riveters, welders, the crane drivers and engineers, the labourers and the tea boys. The tragedy is in the extinction of steelworks that supplied the yards, the factories that were ancillary to the yards, and which provided the joinery and the carpets, the linens and the furniture and the thousand and one things needed for the big ships. The tragedy lies in the disappearance forever of the tiny one and two man operations that supplied the unique, the ‘one-offs’, the widgets and the sprocket-rockers. The tragedy lies in the fragmentation of the shipbuilding communities that serviced this great industry with the concomitant creeping rot of long-term unemployment and welfare dependency. It lies in the generations who have never had the pride, self-respect and self discipline that regular satisfying employment brings

Billy Connolly the Glasgow comedian worked in the yards and used to tell stories of his time there. A line of his has always remained with me. He said that every July the school gates would open on one side of the street and the shipyard gates on the other and the leaving class of that year would just cross over. A simplistic version of the actual event but it makes the point very neatly.

 

So when the QE2 makes her final voyage the tragedy will not lie in the voyage itself but in the fact that she is the last tangible link to a once great industry and power house of employment that was the lifeblood of Glasgow, Belfast, Liverpool and Tyneside and the other cities that grew and flourished on shipbuilding. From a nation of builders, engineers and craftsmen we are reduced to money manipulators and burger flippers.

 

So those of you who will be on board for the final trip, when you lift your glasses in salute, toast not just a ship which has reached the end of its seagoing life, but toast also a world vanished forever. Enjoy your last trip, if I’m honest I wish I was going myself.

(If only to prove that the bloody thing has actually gone).

I know that to many of you it will be an emotional and sad experience. Cheer up – ‘This too will pass’ just book another cruise.

 

On a slightly jarring note. I see from previous posts on the board that there seems to be a certain amount of salivating anticipation at the prospect of stealing as much as can be carried off this ship which is supposed to be so respected. A bit distasteful don’t you think It smacks a little of corpse robbing on a battlefield. Especially considering the reverence in which the ship is reputedly held.

Gari

 

Hi Gari,

 

I agree with all of the above :D

 

As you correctly say, we are entitled to our own opinions (as i have said many times before) but some people cant accept this. :(

 

Gavin :cool:

[Cruachan]

Therein lies the tragedy; the loss of the great shipbuilding yards and the skills, professions and crafts that went with them.

 

Amen to that Gari. And it's not just shipbuilding and steel. Successive governments have progressively destroyed all but a tiny rump of almost all our industry, our agriculture and our armed forces. There seemed to be a prevailing view that country could survive entirely on the back of the fact that London was one of the world's greatest financial centres. Wow!! What a marvellous idea that was - and we haven't seen the half of it yet!

 

J

[Cruachan]

I agree with all of the above :D

 

As you correctly say, we are entitled to our own opinions (as i have said many times before) but some people cant accept this.

 

Gavin,

I don’t believe that any sensible person would quibble with your oft repeated mantra that “we are entitled to our own opinions”. However, I think it would be incredibly naïve to imagine that simply making that statement is the end of the matter. Holding an opinion is one thing, but the problems often only begin when that opinion is expressed.

To use a simplistic example, anyone is entitled to hold the opinion that “Black people are intellectually inferior to white people”, but can you imagine the furore that would ensue were the holder of that opinion to express it in a public forum, be it verbally, in print, or in electronic form?

AND BEFORE ANY SILLY BEGGAR OUT THERE STARTS ON ME – THAT IS NOT MY OPINION. IT IS USED FOR ILLUSTRATIVE PURPOSES ONLY

I think that it is the misplaced and inappropriate expression of opinions that has been the root cause of the recent upset around here. This is, when all is said and done, the CUNARD board. One could therefore reasonably assume that a high proportion of the members of this board are QE2 enthusiasts (that isn’t a crime by the way, it’s simply another perfectly valid opinion). What is more, Gavin, I believe you would count yourself amongst their number. I am sure that you would agree that these people, notwithstanding the fact that they are probably in the majority, are as much entitled to their opinion as anyone else is.

Therefore, when a single individual comes to this forum and repeatedly expresses opinions that are aspersive towards QE2, it begins to look suspiciously as though the motivation for expressing these opinions lies in nothing more substantive than a desire to derive personal pleasure from causing irritation and, in some cases, genuine hurt to others.

I hope you will understand that this is simply my own view of recent events. But I am, when all is said and done, “entitled to my opinion”.

J

[Blazerboy]

Jimmy, the drinks I buy you will have to be of the virtual type for the moment, but well deserved.:)

 

Andrew

[garigoun]

Gavin,

 

Therefore, when a single individual comes to this forum and repeatedly expresses opinions that are aspersive towards QE2, it begins to look suspiciously as though the motivation for expressing these opinions lies in nothing more substantive than a desire to derive personal pleasure from causing irritation and, in some cases, genuine hurt to others.

 

J

 

 

Och Jimmy, ah thocht ye wur ma pal.

G.

[Cruachan]

Och Jimmy, ah thocht ye wur ma pal.

G.

 

Ye are ye daft ould sod. It's no you am talkin' aboot. (in my opinion)

 

J