Fuel surcharge refunds??

[LHARTWICK]

Their table of fuel prices now has Thanksgiving "dashed out".

 

 

Where is this table of fuel prices? We leave 12/6 and would like to find out if we are due a refund or credit.

[rpjkw11]

We leave 12/7, but the one day, 11/4, that oil popped above $70 has shot us out of the saddle. :( There is a 'chart' on the Holland America web site.

 

Bob

[drbees]

Thought this board would be interested in RCL's response to me. They are different in it depends on a single day, two weeks before the calendar quarter. Looks likely that the Jan-Mar cruises will not have a surcharge. May book a cruise with them.....

> We are pleased to provide you with important information regarding our recently implemented plan that could lead to the end of the fuel supplement used by Royal Caribbean International. This plan takes into consideration the recent reductions in global fuel prices and establishes guidelines for fuel supplement refunds if fuel prices remain below a specific price threshold.

>

> Starting on November 10, 2008, our fuel supplement will no longer apply to new Royal Caribbean International bookings, made throughout the world, for sailings that depart on or after January 1, 2010.

>

> For existing bookings or new bookings for sailings that depart prior to January 1, 2010, we will determine on a rolling quarterly basis whether fuel supplements will be refunded. Refunds, in the form of an onboard credit, will be provided if the closing price of West Texas Intermediate fuel is $65.00 or less at the closing time of the New York Mercantile Exchange, two weeks prior to the beginning of the upcoming calendar quarter. When those conditions are met, an onboard credit will be provided to all guests on sailings that depart during the upcoming calendar quarter.

>

> The dates on which the price of West Texas Intermediate fuel will be measured, and the quarters during which refunds could apply on existing bookings are as follows:

>

> Fuel Determination Date: Quarter of Possible Fuel Supplement Refunds:

> December 18, 2008 First Quarter 2009

> March 18, 2009 Second Quarter 2009

> June 17, 2009 Third Quarter 2009

> September 17, 2009 Fourth Quarter 2009

> December 18, 2009 First Quarter 2010

> March 18, 2010 Second Quarter 2010

> June 17, 2010 Third Quarter 2010

> September 17, 2010 Fourth Quarter 2010

>

> Please note, as a company that consumes large amounts of fuel, Royal Caribbean International is forced to purchase fuel in advance by the metric ton to meet our needs. Unlike a direct consumer, where the benefits of decreased fuel costs are instantaneous, our fuel is pre-purchased, causing a delay in the positive impact of reduced fuel costs. Therefore, we are starting the process to determine the possibility of fuel supplement refunds in the next quarter of the calendar year available to us, which is the first quarter of 2009.

>

> We will continue to closely monitor the movement of global fuel prices and recognize that an upturn in those prices could necessitate the reinstatement of a fuel supplement. For the latest fuel supplement updates, please visit the homepage of our website at http://www.royalcaribbean.com.

>

[abb4k]

I respect that HAL was expedient in replying to me, and also understand that it would be inconsistent if they made exceptions to their "fuel surcharge" policy. That said, I think it is also important that they understand how inconsistent their policy is -- hence the letter I sent. I am attaching a copy of HAL's response to me below.

 

 

 

Thank you for your email addressed to Ms. Leonor and Mr. Stein Kruse regarding your ms Westerdam sailing departing December 7, 2008. Mr. Kruse and Ms. Leonor have reviewed your letter in detail, and have asked me to respond on his behalf.

 

We are very sorry that you are disappointed with the fuel supplement you were charged in association with your cruise reservation. The modest fuel supplement Holland America Line has instituted is solely intended to help us partially offset recent increases in the cost of fuel.

 

Presently, oil prices remain volatile. However, we are pleased to advise that we have eliminated the fuel supplement for our 2010 sailings. Additionally, we have established specific guidelines under which the current fuel supplement may be reimbursed to guests for 2008 and 2009 voyages. If the price of light sweet crude oil according to the NYMEX (New York Mercantile Exchange Index) is $70 per barrel or less at the 2:30 p.m. close of business as reported by Reuters on each of the 25 consecutive trading days ending five trading days prior to the guest’s cruise departure date, the fuel supplement will be refunded in the form of a shipboard credit. Guests who book a 2010 cruise prior to October 31, 2008, will be charged the current fuel supplement, but will also be eligible for a refund of this supplement in accordance with the same fuel price conditions that are being implemented for the 2008 and 2009 departures.

 

We are sorry to have to disappoint you in this matter, however our guidelines must apply equally to all guests and we are unable to provide you the refund requested. However, we hope that the above information is helpful.

 

We look forward to welcoming you aboard soon.

 

Best regards,

 

 

Gregory Crick

Manager of Guest Relations

Office of the President

[sail7seas]

They are in business to make money. This is a 'for profit' corporation.

 

[abb4k]

We are in complete agreement that the company is in business to make money.

 

I am actually a stockholder (owner) of the company, and therefore have a vested interest in seeing them make money.

 

But I also believe in fairness. And I don't believe it is fair that customers today are paying for the high fuel prices that the company's management neglected to charge adequately for earlier this year.

 

And for those who haven't looked lately, Carnival Corp is making a TON of money. They may not be making AS MUCH as they were when the economy was stronger, but they are still incredibly profitable.

[sail7seas]

We sail December 5 so 'I get it'. :)

 

 

[SAYHEYRENEE]

We leave 12/7, but the one day, 11/4, that oil popped above $70 has shot us out of the saddle. :( There is a 'chart' on the Holland America web site.

 

Bob

 

Thanks for pointing this out.

http://www.worldsleadingcruiselines.com/AboutUs/FuelSupplementUpdate.aspx

Here is the link I used to check my status. I leave 12/27 so there is a good chance I will recieve my $126.00 back.

[MadManOfBethesda]

But I also believe in fairness. And I don't believe it is fair that customers today are paying for the high fuel prices that the company's management neglected to charge adequately for earlier this year.

 

It is not that CCL neglected to charge adequately for it earlier, it is that when they instituted it, all the passengers complained bitterly that even though the price of fuel had skyrocketed, when they made their reservation there was no fuel surcharge so they shouldn't have to pay it.

 

Fine. So CCL removed it from those passengers and only applied it to the passengers who AGREED up front to pay the surcharge.

 

Now, that fuel prices have come back down, the passengers are making the exact opposite argument. They are complaining that even though they AGREED to pay the fuel surcharge, they don't want to pay it because the price of fuel has gone back down.

 

This puts CCL in a no win situation. According to your argument, CCL should remove the surcharge on your cruise because oil prices are down. However, if oil prices rise, then CCL couldn't reinstitute the fuel surcharge because the passengers would complain that they weren't told there would be one.

 

So, CCL has done the only thing that it could do. It's telling its passengers that if oil stays below $70 for a specified period of time leading up to their cruise, they won't have to pay the surcharge. However, if oil spikes above that level, then they will.

 

It makes perfect sense to me.

[Comptech]

Well if all goes well, on our December 21st sailing we will get our fuel deposit back. It would be a nice Christmas gift.. :)

So if fuel closes on the 15th below 70 bucks we would get it back right?

[abb4k]

MadMan,

 

Thanks for your response. You raise some valuable points.

 

The cruise contract specifically states that fuel surcharges can be applied at any time after the reservation is booked, if/as necessary. So I would respectfully disagree with the passengers who complained bitterly (earlier this year) that they shouldn't have to pay it.

 

How do the best companies in the world deal with the reality of volatile commodity prices? I never see Southwest Airlines implement a fuel surcharge. All they do is adjust the price of their product accordingly. (And they were also wise/lucky to have hedged fuel costs).

 

Perhaps the "best/fairest" answer for Carnival Corp is somewhat complicated. For example, the price of a cruise to a particular destination is "x", PRESUMING OIL IS BETWEEN $55-85/barrel. If oil is above that price, all passengers pay an extra $1/day fuel surcharge for each $10 increment of oil above $85. If oil is below that price, all passengers receive an extra $1/day fuel stipend as an onboard credit.

 

My bottom line is that it HAS TO work both ways. It is not equitable for passengers to pay a surcharge when oil is high, but get nothing when oil is low.

 

And for those keeping score at home, oil is now back to 2005 levels. Perhaps Carnival Corp might want to consider hedging a bit, which would mitigate any future fuel surcharge decisions, if/when oil prices rise again. I, for one, would be delighted to lock $1.60/gallon unleaded gas prices.

 

 

It is not that CCL neglected to charge adequately for it earlier, it is that when they instituted it, all the passengers complained bitterly that even though the price of fuel had skyrocketed, when they made their reservation there was no fuel surcharge so they shouldn't have to pay it.

 

Fine. So CCL removed it from those passengers and only applied it to the passengers who AGREED up front to pay the surcharge.

 

Now, that fuel prices have come back down, the passengers are making the exact opposite argument. They are complaining that even though they AGREED to pay the fuel surcharge, they don't want to pay it because the price of fuel has gone back down.

 

This puts CCL in a no win situation. According to your argument, CCL should remove the surcharge on your cruise because oil prices are down. However, if oil prices rise, then CCL couldn't reinstitute the fuel surcharge because the passengers would complain that they weren't told there would be one.

 

So, CCL has done the only thing that it could do. It's telling its passengers that if oil stays below $70 for a specified period of time leading up to their cruise, they won't have to pay the surcharge. However, if oil spikes above that level, then they will.

 

It makes perfect sense to me.

[notolddrifter]

Hello to all cruise mates! It seems like the cruise lines feel that they're not getting enough of our money. This fuel surcharge they're imposing is unwarranted considering the price of sweet crude oil on the stock market. They're not wanting to take it off by giving us our money back even as a credit to our credit cards. Instead they say IF they return this money, it will be in the form of an onboard credit. This just shows how these people operate. I myself want my money back! I sent a letter to my State Attorney's office in Florida asking them to make the cruise lines justifying this fuel surcharge now; who knows what will happen after this? We the People keep these ships afloat with our hard-earned money. They should remember ... without us, they'd have to take all their ships back to Europe. I'm an old sailor and these ships are more fuel-efficient today than our old Navy ships were. Why should we have to pay for their fuel?

[Twickenham]

The cruise contract specifically states that fuel surcharges can be applied at any time after the reservation is booked, if/as necessary. So I would respectfully disagree with the passengers who complained bitterly (earlier this year) that they shouldn't have to pay it.

 

I think the main issue was imposing the surcharge after final payment. I believe it was a Canadian law that said that this was illegal (or something to that effect). Anyhow, because they had to refund the surcharge to the Canadian passengers, they did it for everyone. It became a major PR thing between all the cruise lines.

 

How do the best companies in the world deal with the reality of volatile commodity prices? I never see Southwest Airlines implement a fuel surcharge. All they do is adjust the price of their product accordingly. (And they were also wise/lucky to have hedged fuel costs).

 

They hedged their price when oil was low, so had significantly lower costs than competing airlines.

 

Perhaps the "best/fairest" answer for Carnival Corp is somewhat complicated. For example, the price of a cruise to a particular destination is "x", PRESUMING OIL IS BETWEEN $55-85/barrel. If oil is above that price, all passengers pay an extra $1/day fuel surcharge for each $10 increment of oil above $85. If oil is below that price, all passengers receive an extra $1/day fuel stipend as an onboard credit.

 

I agree - however, considering how many people are complaining about how complicated the present system is, I'm sure we'd have lots of whining about a system like that!

 

My bottom line is that it HAS TO work both ways. It is not equitable for passengers to pay a surcharge when oil is high, but get nothing when oil is low.

 

The problem is the way cruises are bought and sold is completely different with the way fuel is. Cruises are often reserved - and paid for - months in advance. Carnival probably buys fuel every couple of weeks. As they do not hedge, they are directly affected by fluctuations in the market. That's the real issue they're dealing with here - not high or low prices, but price fluctuations and uncertainty. I think the present refund system is the best way Carnival can protect themselves from these fluctuations, while at the same time passing on lower costs to their passengers (although I agree it should be a refund, not just a credit).

 

And for those keeping score at home, oil is now back to 2005 levels. Perhaps Carnival Corp might want to consider hedging a bit, which would mitigate any future fuel surcharge decisions, if/when oil prices rise again. I, for one, would be delighted to lock $1.60/gallon unleaded gas prices.

 

Of course, they'd have egg on their face if prices go even lower. It's really a tough call...

[waASPCrusier]

It is not that CCL neglected to charge adequately for it earlier, it is that when they instituted it, all the passengers complained bitterly that even though the price of fuel had skyrocketed, when they made their reservation there was no fuel surcharge so they shouldn't have to pay it.

 

Fine. So CCL removed it from those passengers and only applied it to the passengers who AGREED up front to pay the surcharge.

 

 

I could be wrong but I believe a lawsuit in Florida caused the original dropping of the fuel surcharge. I believe because it was applied to some people after final payment taking away from them their chance to cancel because of the surcharge. :)

 

As for my own thoughts, they can charge what they want, it is really up to the consumer to choose if they want to pay the price and go on the cruise. That being said I wish they would just had it to the fare and not call it a fuel surcharge....that would sure cut the this thread short :D

 

Tayo and Kristy

[ViolaSwamp]

Check this action out: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=884336

[rpjkw11]

Oh, well. Always a Bridesmaid, never a Bride.:D We sail on the 7th and, while it would have been nice, it's no big deal.

 

Bob

[nini]

We depart on Dec. 13th. If it had not been for that one day on Nov. 4th; we would have received the OBC. At least, they could credit us from Dec. 17th which would be 3 days worth times 4 people= 108.00 OBC. Darn! I know, Life is not fair. We are paying for all previous customers when oil was so high. I think oil is about 53.00 today.

[Twickenham]

I think oil is about 53.00 today.

 

Oil is about $43 today.

[Cristiano]

Talk here in Sydney today is that oil could go as low as $25 US / barrel.....we wish........but then again it could have a very negative effect upon the economy......still at least I could get rid of the $256 US fuel levy on our trip next April...unless HA dream up another way of keeping it....:)

[mikealacrity]

I just spoke to holland america, and was told my credit card will be refunded the fuel surcharge within the next 7 days.

[Travelbug 2]

C $264.60 fuel charge. :eek:

We just booked a 14 day cruise for April 24th 09 and this charge was included. Oil is now appx $43 and I do not see it going up over $70 any time soon. Does this mean we will get our $264.60 refunded either as a shipboard credit or a direct credit card credit?

 

What do you think?? :confused:

[aussiedisneyfan]

That's what the announcement said. All sailings after 12/17 get it back either as a reduction in amount owing or as a obc. As long as the oil prices don't go back up.

 

A refund of the fuel supplement will be made in the form of a shipboard credit for all bookings within the final payment period for departures on or after December 17, 2008. All bookings outside of the final payment period for departures on or after December 17, 2008 will be adjusted to remove the fuel supplement and guests will be provided with a revised final payment amount.

 

“As the price of oil has dropped to $46 per barrel, it has now reached a level where we are able to suspend the fuel supplement,” said Bill Harber, director of marketing for Carnival Corporation & plc. Harber cautioned that the fuel supplement could be re-instated if oil prices increase significantly.

 

The company reserves the right to re-instate the fuel supplement for all guests at up to $9 per person per day (except Seabourn, which would be up to $15 per person per day) should the price of light sweet crude oil according to the NYMEX (New York Mercantile Exchange Index) increase above $70 per barrel.

[Travelbug 2]

That's what the announcement said. All sailings after 12/17 get it back either as a reduction in amount owing or as a obc. As long as the oil prices don't go back up.

 

[/left]

 

Good news, thank you.

[larsenbiz]

We are sailing on 12/13 and seem to fall just out of range of the new policy. I sent HAL an e-mail last night requesting that my fuel surcharge be refunded in OBC. Hopefully they will. I'll let you know.

[southt00]

Hi:

 

Just received a note from our TA that our February 28th cruise on Eurodam has returned our fuel surcharges. Will take three weeks to appear on our card.

 

Yippee!

 

Tracey