Infinity receives not satisfactory CDC score

[FinelyCruising]

Violation: A can of insecticide (565 Pus XLO) was stored in a box with paper towels. Three bags of Max Force bait stations were stored on the top shelf with chlorine powder.

 

Well....I'm sure the buggers are not going anywhere near there! I'd guess that with the provisions that are brought on board this stuff is necessary.

[shipshape sam]

Violation: A can of insecticide (565 Pus XLO) was stored in a box with paper towels. Three bags of Max Force bait stations were stored on the top shelf with chlorine powder.

 

Well....I'm sure the buggers are not going anywhere near there! I'd guess that with the provisions that are brought on board this stuff is necessary.

 

Kinda surprised the deductions were that much, 5 points.

[shofer]

The first and most important of them (for me) was that the bain marie for parts of the buffet were clearly not keeping the food at the right temperature. In fact, I wish I had an instant read thermometer around so that I could have measured the temperature of the food. I touched it and it was cool. I brought this to the attention of the managers, who did superficial things to try and fix it, but never really did. But you could clearly see that it wasn't working properly... there was hardly any steam. And yet they continued to serve food from it. We simply avoided that part of the buffet or ate cold food.

 

DH got sour milk on Princess that was out of date and sitting in melted ice. All the milk got pulled and for the rest of the cruise was in a pitcher surrounded by ice. We got a bottle of wine for reporting that.

[benbess]

The transatlantic was fine, the ship was rocking a few nights, so maybe it isn't for your wife. We were far south and still felt it

 

As to the quality of Celebrity... that's a different question. Cold food was a problem on the ship (as mentioned above). And they did try to gas us one evening. The activity staff was quite nice.

 

Interesting....

 

Do you have a full review somewhere?

[florisdekort]

The date of the inspection per the "green sheet" is 12/3/08. I think that is when Infinity came out of drydock.

 

Exactly. She came out of a 2+ week dry dock that exact same day, with most of the crew on unpaid leave. That explains a lot.

 

Floris

[Sky Sweet]

Not 100% sure of this but I THINK all ships have a CDC inspection if they have been out of the US for some time (that's why they know one is coming). The CDC does do other "surprise" inspections, I believe.

 

Hi mafig :)

 

That may be true but when we took a cruise on RCCL's Brilliance of the Seas from Barcelona to the Greek Isles in June, we were told about all the procedures we had to follow to comply with CDC regulations.

 

It appears that RCCL took it upon themselves to voluntarily comply when the ship was in Europe. Since RCCL owns Celebrity, I am surprised that the regulations on Infinity in Europe were not as strict as on RCCL's Brilliance of the Seas.

[PENGUIN67]

On our Infinity Cruise last month, the eveing pizza guy assembled raw ingredients for pizzas without gloves. When I reported this to a Manager, the guy wore his gloves every day after that.

[dutchess43]

I feel that hand sanitizers for passengers & staff should be a must before entering all food establishments wheather or not there is an ourbreak! I hate when they do not provide the sanitizers because they are not on alert. This is not just X's policy but the majority of cruise lines fall into this category. If sanitizers were used all the time it could cut down on sickness for some of the passengers. I am speaking from experience one bout of Norvo on the Millie was quite an eye opener!

[Dale]

On our Infinity Cruise last month, the eveing pizza guy assembled raw ingredients for pizzas without gloves. When I reported this to a Manager, the guy wore his gloves every day after that.

Let me play Devils’ Advocate. If bare hands can gather and spread germs, why can’t hands that are wearing gloves also pickup and spread germs the same as bare hands?

[dkjretired]

I feel that hand sanitizers for passengers & staff should be a must before entering all food establishments wheather or not there is an ourbreak! I hate when they do not provide the sanitizers because they are not on alert. This is not just X's policy but the majority of cruise lines fall into this category. If sanitizers were used all the time it could cut down on sickness for some of the passengers. I am speaking from experience one bout of Norvo on the Millie was quite an eye opener!

 

 

Hand sanitizers do not prevent Noro virus because it is a virus and they don't protect against virus's. IMHO they are a feel good measure that is not better than washing your hands.

[FinelyCruising]

Let me play Devils’ Advocate. If bare hands can gather and spread germs, why can’t hands that are wearing gloves also pickup and spread germs the same as bare hands?

 

Ohhhh....I could tell you stories about my former dentist! Pick up a pen with not gloves, pick up the same pen with gloves. Put the gloved hand in my mouth. No difference with or without.

 

You raise an excellent point!

[Ephraim]

Interesting....

 

Do you have a full review somewhere?

 

Not yet. I'm working on it.

[Veronica13]

For crying out loud people, every ship is inspected and available for your viewing on

 

http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/

 

And washing your hands IS the best way to prevent becomming ill. I have never encountered Noro, though some of my fellow passengers did. I wash my hands several times a day, stay out of the public restrooms, etc.

 

Celebrity consistently scores well and has a very complex sanitization program in place. The entire ship is sanitized after each sailing.

[Psoque]

Hand sanitizers do not prevent Noro virus because it is a virus and they don't protect against virus's. IMHO they are a feel good measure that is not better than washing your hands.

 

Are you really sure about that? I know that there is a recent study that showed alcohol based hand sanitizers do not work well against rhinoviruses (common cold viruses), but they work well against a lot of viruses, including noroviruses.

[dkjretired]

Are you really sure about that? I know that there is a recent study that showed alcohol based hand sanitizers do not work well against rhinoviruses (common cold viruses), but they work well against a lot of viruses, including noroviruses.

 

Read the label that is why they are called anti-bacterials....

 

Here's an interesting little test that may answer some of your questions. Not scientific but the point is made..

 

 

http://www.aolhealth.com/health/expiration-dates-household-products

[Psoque]

[quote name='dkjretired']Read the label that is why they are called anti-bacterials....

Here's an interesting little test that may answer some of your questions. Not scientific but the point is made..


[URL]http://www.aolhealth.com/health/expiration-dates-household-products[/URL][/quote]

Sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree. It's true, some viruses are not affected by alcohol based hand sanitizers, but many viruses are. It's not that simple. You may want to listen to a recent story on NPR.

[URL]http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=98947083[/URL]

I agree that hand sanitizers are not perfect. Not all viruses are effectively killed by them, including the common cold virus. There is a mixed result on the effectiveness of alcohol based gel hand sanitizers (not just alcohol, but other stuff is in those "alcohol based" products to increase the effectiveness against wider range of bacteria and viruses), but it appears that recent formulations are fairly effective against noroviruses. Of course, as it says in the above NPR story and also elsewhere, use of warm water and soap is the best method to reduce the number of infectious agents from your hands. On the other hand, a lot of experts agree that using the alcohol based gel sanitizer alone is a whole alot better (in reducing the number of infectious agents, either bacteria or viruses) than doing nothing.

I'm a scientist and a physician, and I actually did some literature search on this topic, since it appears that the public is widely confused about this topic. Thanks for giving me an opportunity for me to learn about this topic in the process.

So my recommendation is this: wash your hands with warm water and soap, epecially before eating, and use the hand sanitizers either in addition to it, or alone if there's no availability of warm water and soap (in case you are in middle of nowhere.)

[dkjretired]

[quote name='Psoque']Sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree. It's true, some viruses are not affected by alcohol based hand sanitizers, but many viruses are. It's not that simple. You may want to listen to a recent story on NPR.

[URL]http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=98947083[/URL]

I agree that hand sanitizers are not perfect. Not all viruses are effectively killed by them, including the common cold virus. There is a mixed result on the effectiveness of alcohol based gel hand sanitizers (not just alcohol, but other stuff is in those "alcohol based" products to increase the effectiveness against wider range of bacteria and viruses), but it appears that recent formulations are fairly effective against noroviruses. Of course, as it says in the above NPR story and also elsewhere, use of warm water and soap is the best method to reduce the number of infectious agents from your hands. On the other hand, a lot of experts agree that using the alcohol based gel sanitizer alone is a whole alot better (in reducing the number of infectious agents, either bacteria or viruses) than doing nothing.

I'm a scientist and a physician, and I actually did some literature search on this topic, since it appears that the public is widely confused about this topic. Thanks for giving me an opportunity for me to learn about this topic in the process.

So my recommendation is this: wash your hands with warm water and soap, epecially before eating, and use the hand sanitizers either in addition to it, or alone if there's no availability of warm water and soap (in case you are in middle of nowhere.)[/QUOTE]

I believe in washing your hands but what bothers me with these is the attitude of some who come on this board demanding that everyone use the sanitizers. Just because we are having this conversation proves that the jury is out on them and I want the option and don't want people telling me I am dammed because I don't use them. The poster I referenced to did not do that but I have found people on these boards make these types of comments.

[Sky Sweet]

Based on what I have read, frequent hand washing is just as effective as hand sanitizers in fighting and controlling the norovirus. The problem is that when people enter a dining venue on a ship the crew have no way of knowing if that person just washed their hands.

[shipshape sam]

[quote name='Sky Sweet']Based on what I have read, frequent hand washing is just as effective as hand sanitizers in fighting and controlling the norovirus. The problem is that when people enter a dining venue on a ship the crew have no way of knowing if that person just washed their hands.[/quote]

I believe it is a two step process.

1)Wash your hands/sanitize your hands, preferably after you have touched all the utensils (when eating). Washing your hands before entering/while entering buffet area and then touching all the utensils others who have NOT cleaned their hands is somewhat self defeating. (better than nothing though) and within reason after being in public places and touching handrails/buttons, etc.

2)Do not touch your hands to your mouth, eyes, nose more than needed before washing your hands.

[Captain Cosmo]

Well, as usual it appears that many posters are prepared to disregard the CDC reports, but the reality remains that there are many other venues that don't have the incidence of noro that cruising does. Las Vegas casinos feed thousands of people a day - mostly from buffets - and yet you rarely read about noro outbreaks. Yes, I am aware that ships are required to report noro once it hits a certain percentage of the crew/passengers and that land-based operations don't. However, bad news travels fast and if there were the level of noro problems in Vegas that are seen on cruise ships you would have heard about it. The bottom line is that cruise ships hire many people from cultures that do not practice the same type of hygiene that is required for safe food preparation on a massive scale. Yes, it keeps the cost of your cruise down, but at what expense? Saving money while putting the passengers and crew at risk is not good business, and its not ethical either. Until the cruise industry is more regulated (and yes - that will cost more) you can expect that noro will continue to be a problem.

[qe2]

While I would love to see 100 % on the inspections, it really isn't very feasable. They did loose lots of point because someone tasted with their finger... yuck... I hate to tell you how may cruisers I have seen do the same thing. double or triple yuck.
I'm glad that the CED is looking at everything but one of the main issues that can affect food quality is the temperature. There doesn't seem to be any complaint in this regard.

[dkjretired]

[quote name='Captain Cosmo']Well, as usual it appears that many posters are prepared to disregard the CDC reports, but the reality remains that there are many other venues that don't have the incidence of noro that cruising does. Las Vegas casinos feed thousands of people a day - mostly from buffets - and yet you rarely read about noro outbreaks. Yes, I am aware that ships are required to report noro once it hits a certain percentage of the crew/passengers and that land-based operations don't. However, bad news travels fast and if there were the level of noro problems in Vegas that are seen on cruise ships you would have heard about it. The bottom line is that cruise ships hire many people from cultures that do not practice the same type of hygiene that is required for safe food preparation on a massive scale. Yes, it keeps the cost of your cruise down, but at what expense? Saving money while putting the passengers and crew at risk is not good business, and its not ethical either. Until the cruise industry is more regulated (and yes - that will cost more) you can expect that noro will continue to be a problem.[/QUOTE]

I disagree completely and using Vegas as a comparison is poor on so many levels. Those who go to Vegas are not confined to one hotel for one week and many people get noro in Vegas from just using slot machines. Also, show where Vegas has anything like the CDC inspections that ships have. Bottom line is about 40 million Americans get Noro every year and about 4000 get it on cruise ships. I have been on cruise ships and many buffets in both Vegas and Atlantic City. Both those cities can't come close to the cruise ships for hygiene, the ships do a much better job...