We Cruisers Need to be Realists........

[kryos]

I wouldn't be expecting a lot from a cruise at the price...and heck I would make my own bed.

Don't laugh ... I even read one review where the reviewer started out saying what a great price he had gotten on the sailing ... last minute booking ... can't remember the cruise line. Then he goes on to rip the cruise line apart. The part of his review that I got a real laugh out of, though ... was when he ripped into the cabin steward. He said that the guy never got to his cabin before noon, and several times never even bothered to turn down his bed at night. He also complained that his towels were not replaced each day and that all the steward had done was picked them up off the floor, refolded them, and hung them back up. He also complained about his daughter only receiving a towel animal on two nights of the cruise. He then went on to say that he cut his gratuities down by 50% because of the poor cabin service.

 

I couldn't help thinking ... so you punish a cabin steward, probably getting him into trouble, because the poor guy is probably overworked ... maybe having 20 or more cabins to service twice a day because maybe the cruise line has cut the cabin servicing staff down in order to free up berths for other, revenue producing functions' staff.

 

True, I was unhappy on my Carnival cruise with the state of my cabin as well. But my issues were mostly related to being unable to control the temperature. If my issues had only been in terms of cabin service, I would have been far more understanding, given the price I paid for that four day cruise. And, I certainly didn't even consider reducing the cabin steward's tip. After all, it wasn't his fault the temperature was too cold and couldn't be raised. He did bring me some extra blankets to minimize the discomfort.

 

My dear mom ... now deceased ... grew up in the depression era. As a result, she was very, very careful with a dollar. She used to look for deals and I remember telling her ... when she was lamenting that something she bought really cheap had fallen apart after only a couple of uses ... "mom, you get what you pay for, haven't you realized that yet? Spend a bit more to get a quality item, and you'll save in the long-run because it will last." Sadly, she never learned that lesson before she died and was always shopping based on price. Well, that's fine ... but then you can't be too picky about what you end up with either.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Bill S]

Great post, Sail!

Even with all the cutbacks/changes on HAL and my newly lowered expectations about how things will be on our next HAL cruise, I still hope that such experience will still be satisfying enough to warrant continuing to cruise with HAL. I guess it depends on exactly which changes impact what I expect from a HAL cruise. I don't think there will be any one "deal-breaker", for me as I will try to consider the overall experience and shall embark with a "glass half-full" outlook. :)

Thanks!

[sail7seas]

Our Sunday edition Boston Globe today had an article about high end hotels making cutbacks in subtle places that are not easily noticed in order to continue offering a high end experience but trimming the budget where possible.

 

The Omni Parker House (an historic, very nice hotel) in Boston asked their florist (Winston Flowers which is very high end and does gorgeous work) to find a way to trim the floral bill each month. The manager says they accomplished it but he hasn't figured out how. They have the same number of arrangements in pubic areas and they are changed as often as always. It must be somewhat less costly blossoms? Manager declares it unnoticeable to the guests.

 

They also eliminated a double embossing on their paper hand towels. Instead of two images, only one. That saves 2.5 cents per towel times how many towels a year?

 

Langham Hotel's bookings are down 10-12 percent through March this year from last. They are urging housekeeping to not be so generous with the amenities such as bubble bath and soap etc. That could well backfire on them. The goal is to cut costs without guests noticing. I would notice that. :( One of these days we need to try their restaurant again. Been a while since we've been there. Better go fast before they lower the standard. :eek:

 

So, it is certainly hitting the hotels as well as ships but I think we all knew that.

[kryos]

I agree there is tons of waste. I've seen workers dump food after wine an cheese parties out on the deck that had barely been touched. This was a few years ago however. It's beyond me why people take food that they will never eat. I take what I feel I will eat and unless it's gross I will eat it. Everyone is different I guess. Might not be a bad idea for HAL to start charging for room service. I bet that is an area that is abused. I think it's Royal Caribbean that is charging but I could be wrong.

I think Royal Caribbean only charges for room service during certain hours ... like maybe late nights, but I could be wrong as well.

 

Personally, if I were HAL management and I knew I had to make cuts, I would sooner cut these "extras" and leave the basic cruise experience, including the activities schedule, food quality, etc., alone. For example, I would charge a minimal fee for room service orders, with the possible exception of full suite passengers. Room service is one of those things that you don't absolutely need to have, so if you want it, you should have no problem paying a bit for it.

 

Another thing I would charge for is for refreshments at private parties ... including, yes, the CC get togethers. You want to have a private party, and you want refreshments, then you should be more than willing to pay a nominal fee for them. What you're primarily paying for is the convenience of having the refreshments delivered and set up ... not the refreshments themselves. If you don't want to pay for that, then fine ... everyone stop at the Lido and get a plate of cookies to bring with them to the get-together venue ... or, better still, have the get-together at a couple of large tables in the Lido where everyone could just go up and get what they want.

 

Child care (i.e., Club HAL) is another thing I would have a minimal charge for. In effect, that is babysitting or pre-school. You pay for those things at home, don't you? I'm not talking major charges here ... just a minimal daily fee or a small fee for each "session." Club HAL is not something you have to have. If you want to bring your children along ... especially when you are getting those kids onboard at $99 each special kids' rates ... then you shouldn't have a problem paying a nominal fee if you want them to participate in Club HAL activities. Again, that's a discretionary expense. You could always entertain the child yourself, right?

 

Again, these are just a few examples of things I think HAL should cut IF they have to cut anything. I'm not saying I would like to see these cuts, but if something has to be cut, I think it should be discretionary items that people don't have to pay for if they don't want to. You don't NEED room service, you don't NEED to send your kids to Club HAL, you don't NEED refreshments set up and served at private group get-togethers. But you do need a decent dining room experience, cabin service, activities program, etc. ... because those things are vital to a good cruise experience. We've been getting them for years and they are what we associate cruising with. Take them away, or erode their quality, and you risk losing passengers. Now one line is no different from another ... and people will shop solely on the basis of price. You will end up losing those people that came to your cruise line specifically for the "special" sort of experience it provided. But cut the "non-essentials," and chances are most people won't be too steamed about it. They'll either say "the heck with you, I'll run up to the Lido and get my own coffee" or they will just pay the minimal charge for the convenience of having it brought to them.

 

But cut food quality or service in the Lido, and you risk losing a lot of loyal passengers and the money they brought to your cruise line.

 

Just my opinion ...

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[tonyt]

I am pleased to see that so many people get it.

Thanks Sail.

tonyt

[cruz chic]

I think Royal Caribbean only charges for room service during certain hours ... like maybe late nights, but I could be wrong as well.

 

Personally, if I were HAL management and I knew I had to make cuts, I would sooner cut these "extras" and leave the basic cruise experience, including the activities schedule, food quality, etc., alone. For example, I would charge a minimal fee for room service orders, with the possible exception of full suite passengers. Room service is one of those things that you don't absolutely need to have, so if you want it, you should have no problem paying a bit for it.

 

Another thing I would charge for is for refreshments at private parties ... including, yes, the CC get togethers. You want to have a private party, and you want refreshments, then you should be more than willing to pay a nominal fee for them. What you're primarily paying for is the convenience of having the refreshments delivered and set up ... not the refreshments themselves. If you don't want to pay for that, then fine ... everyone stop at the Lido and get a plate of cookies to bring with them to the get-together venue ... or, better still, have the get-together at a couple of large tables in the Lido where everyone could just go up and get what they want.

 

Child care (i.e., Club HAL) is another thing I would have a minimal charge for. In effect, that is babysitting or pre-school. You pay for those things at home, don't you? I'm not talking major charges here ... just a minimal daily fee or a small fee for each "session." Club HAL is not something you have to have. If you want to bring your children along ... especially when you are getting those kids onboard at $99 each special kids' rates ... then you shouldn't have a problem paying a nominal fee if you want them to participate in Club HAL activities. Again, that's a discretionary expense. You could always entertain the child yourself, right?

 

Again, these are just a few examples of things I think HAL should cut IF they have to cut anything. I'm not saying I would like to see these cuts, but if something has to be cut, I think it should be discretionary items that people don't have to pay for if they don't want to. You don't NEED room service, you don't NEED to send your kids to Club HAL, you don't NEED refreshments set up and served at private group get-togethers. But you do need a decent dining room experience, cabin service, activities program, etc. ... because those things are vital to a good cruise experience. We've been getting them for years and they are what we associate cruising with. Take them away, or erode their quality, and you risk losing passengers. Now one line is no different from another ... and people will shop solely on the basis of price. You will end up losing those people that came to your cruise line specifically for the "special" sort of experience it provided. But cut the "non-essentials," and chances are most people won't be too steamed about it. They'll either say "the heck with you, I'll run up to the Lido and get my own coffee" or they will just pay the minimal charge for the convenience of having it brought to them.

 

But cut food quality or service in the Lido, and you risk losing a lot of loyal passengers and the money they brought to your cruise line.

 

Just my opinion ...

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

I agree with pretty much everthing you've said here but I really don't care for the activities either. To me...they could charge a small fee for stuff like trivia...etc. Those are not required items either. I have to laugh at the suggestion of the parents taking care of their kids. Now there is an interesting concept:D.

[kryos]

Our Sunday edition Boston Globe today had an article about high end hotels making cutbacks in subtle places that are not easily noticed in order to continue offering a high end experience but trimming the budget where possible.

I'm leaving for Fort Lauderdale on Tuesday for a five-day training class. We are staying at the Embassy Suites. I am absolutely shocked at the amenities we are getting with our stay ... free cooked to order breakfast every morning ... cocktail hour every evening ... and these things are supposedly provided to all guests ... not just our training group. I don't know what they charge for suites there (because the training group pays for our semi-private rooms), but I'm frankly shocked that there's a hotel still providing these things with the rooms. I mean, I could see continental breakfast and perhaps wine and beer served at the cocktail party ... but spirits too? That must be one high-priced hotel to provide all that.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

I agree with pretty much everthing you've said here but I really don't care for the activities either. To me...they could charge a small fee for stuff like trivia...etc. Those are not required items either. I have to laugh at the suggestion of the parents taking care of their kids. Now there is an interesting concept:D.

They're not charging for trivia, but from what I understand, they've cut out most of the prizes too. Now all the winning team receives at the end of each daily session is a round of applause. :) I do think the overall winning team from the cruise may get some nominal prizes though.

 

Didn't they cut out the "dam dollar" prizes on a lot of the sports activities too ... like the morning walks and whatnot?

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Down-Unders]

I know not everyone is going to agree but that's okay.

 

We all know the state of the econony, we all have friends/relative/acquaintances out of work, afraid of losing their job or earning less than they did a year or two ago.

 

We all know there are lots of ships with lots of cabins and there is competition from land resorts for vacation dollars.

 

I think the other thing we all need to know is something has to give.

In order for our favorite (and even less than favorite :) ) cruiselines to stay in business and continue sailing and providing all the jobs they account for, they are going to have some reduced prices on some sailings. How many of those sailings, who knows nor who knows how many ships for how long.

 

If they have to lower prices to fill cabins which they have to do to keep ships sailing, WE, who choose to continue sailing, are going to have to adjust our thinking.

 

If we are paying less, we have to be given less. If we cannot adjust to that thinking, IMO we are going to come back from cruises complaining.

 

IF we choose to continue sailing and hopefully most of us will, we still will be so fortunate to have the biggest things that mean the most to many of us that makes us love the ships. But, dinner menu may not be as extravagant as in the past. Crew numbers may be shrunk and service may lag a tiny notch. There probably will be fewer prizes etc at games

 

BUT we'll be on the beautiful ships, with the awesome crews we know work so hard to give us the best experience possible, we'll go to fascinating ports and meet interesting people, we'll feel the deck beneath our feet and the motion of the ocean and we'll have someone else cooking our meals and making our beds.

 

Sure doesn't sound all bad to me!!! :D

 

Let's try and be a bit realistic.

I imagine many have seen lots of store and restaurant closings, businesses folding in their communities....... don't blame the cruise lines when they have to do what they have to do in order to continue sailing. These are not times for extravagance and excess. These are not times when plates should be piled high in Lido when one knows they cannot possibly eat all that food. Take what you want but eat what you take (unless, of course, there is something about it that displeases you.) We can always go back for more. Assuming you are able, what's the big deal to go get your own coffee refill at breakfast in Lido rather than complain a steward with his cart didn't come around. Leave him to help those who need the assistance. Things like that can keep you from sitting there getting annoyed or angry. Easier and quicker to just go get a refill for yourself IMO

 

In the end, we would be the biggest losers if they no longer exist because we wouldn't give a tiny bit in our expectation.

 

JMHO........

 

 

 

I agree, but when service heads south it may stay there.

[kryos]

Sail, Take it from someone that is part of the unemployed :o

Didn't I read somewhere that you were starting a new job? If that has changed, I am so sorry.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[cruz chic]

They're not charging for trivia, but from what I understand, they've cut out most of the prizes too. Now all the winning team receives at the end of each daily session is a round of applause. :) I do think the overall winning team from the cruise may get some nominal prizes though.

 

Didn't they cut out the "dam dollar" prizes on a lot of the sports activities too ... like the morning walks and whatnot?

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

I think I read that the morning walk doesn't count for the sports stuff. This stuff just doesn't interest me although working out is an important issue for me. I just don't think I need to be rewarded for it. That is just my opinion and I'm sure a lot of people will disagree. I tend to be self entertaining:D.

[iancal]

Competition and consumers will ultimately decide what will happen and who survives. During tough times, business do have to cut, but they also have to find new ways of remaining competitive and differentiating themselves so that they continue to reach out to exisiting customers and new customers. The economy, plus a surplus of capacity only means one thing for the consumer. We have noticed cuts over the past few years-both in service and in food quality. We would rather pay a little more but the public has shown, as they did with airlines several years ago, that price is king.

[kryos]

We would rather pay a little more but the public has shown, as they did with airlines several years ago, that price is king.

Unfortunately, though, in some cases it has to be that way today. Many people are finding their paychecks shrinking yet their expenses increasing, and vacations are one of the first things cut out. So, yes, if you want to attract these people, price has to be king. If you don't offer a low price, another provider will and they will get what little business may remain out there. So, unfortunately, you go ahead and cut your price, but then figure out what else you can cut to make up for that. The successful provider (cruise line, hotel, resort, etc.) will be the one that makes the best decisions about what to cut and what to leave alone.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[cruz chic]

Competition and consumers will ultimately decide what will happen and who survives. During tough times, business do have to cut, but they also have to find new ways of remaining competitive and differentiating themselves so that they continue to reach out to exisiting customers and new customers. The economy, plus a surplus of capacity only means one thing for the consumer. We have noticed cuts over the past few years-both in service and in food quality. We would rather pay a little more but the public has shown, as they did with airlines several years ago, that price is king.

I agree with most of what you are saing here but price isn't always the final deciding factor for me. If I had to decide between a Princess cruise and a HAL cruise price would be a consideration. On the other hand a Royal Caribbean or a Carnival cruise would have to be REALLY cheap before I might bite.

[cccole]

I think it is interesting to talk about where we would be willing to accept a decrease in service, or pay for certain services. We have always traveled (land or sea) with our children but have not ever used the kids clubs services on a cruise (including HAL, Disney, RCL, Celebrity, and Carnival.) When the children were younger we always signed up for them but we were having so much fun that they never had the need to go. At resorts they often used the facilities and we paid for them. The programs were different and really fun (not just babysitting) so they found them interesting. This response does not mean I do not want children on cruises, because I encourage it, it just means that most parents would probably be happy to pay a minimal fee to have a fantastic program designed for the kids. Cherie

[Mtierney]

We may all grouse about some cutback in service, etc., but how about those airlines? Higher and higher prices with less and less in comfort or service!:mad:

[sail7seas]

And the fact is many have refused to accept the increased prices and unpleasantness associated with air travel and have stopped flying.

 

[hammybee]

We may all grouse about some cutback in service, etc., but how about those airlines? Higher and higher prices with less and less in comfort or service!:mad:

 

I live near a major hub and airline prices between major domestic hubs are about 70% less than they were 12-15 years ago. This is remarkable given the increase in the cost of fuel and everything else, during that same time period. It's not possible to pay 70% less and not expect it to be a substantially diminished experience.

[Juanita462]

I am curious about the many statements I have read on this forum about cruises being cheaper than they were 10 years ago.

 

We haven't found that to be the case - when we started cruising we paid

$200 pp per day for a Panama Canal cruise. We have never been able to find cruises for less than that and usually they cost more. Our upcoming cruise is over $240 pp per day and that doesn't include port charges or taxes - and this is for an OV cabin on the lowest deck every time.

and this was purchased when our dollar was at par.

My SIL just paid off her cruise and had to pay $3000 extra for the exchange rate since our dollar has dropped so low.

 

It is obvious that companies can't cut prices and keep the same standards in place and we still cruise because of the experience and no longer expect what we once had with HAL.

 

Hey - I would gladly make my own bed if they would bring back the activities they used to have!

[PatsyAnne]

I'm leaving for Fort Lauderdale on Tuesday for a five-day training class. We are staying at the Embassy Suites. I am absolutely shocked at the amenities we are getting with our stay ... free cooked to order breakfast every morning ... cocktail hour every evening ... and these things are supposedly provided to all guests ... not just our training group. I don't know what they charge for suites there (because the training group pays for our semi-private rooms), but I'm frankly shocked that there's a hotel still providing these things with the rooms. I mean, I could see continental breakfast and perhaps wine and beer served at the cocktail party ... but spirits too? That must be one high-priced hotel to provide all that.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

 

Hi Rita,

I used to stay at Embassy Suites on business sometimes and depending on what you're used to, Embassy Suites is in the medium range. I think the amenities and corporate agreements allow them to keep the fairly profitable business customers. I know that when we didn't have a company office, it helped us to be able to work and plan in the living room area of a suite, and to meet for breakfast and/or after work in the common area.

Trish

[kryos]

Our upcoming cruise is over $240 pp per day and that doesn't include port charges or taxes - and this is for an OV cabin on the lowest deck every time.

and this was purchased when our dollar was at par.

My SIL just paid off her cruise and had to pay $3000 extra for the exchange rate since our dollar has dropped so low.

Okay, you're overseas, right? Maybe it's different in your case ... I honestly don't know. But here in the U.S. there are definitely some great deals to be had if you know where to look. Booking relatively close to sail date gets you many of them, but then ... of course ... you take leftovers in terms of cabin assignments.

 

But if you're not picky and are just looking for a quick "cheapie" cruise, right now it's a buyer's market out there ... at least for people living in the U.S., and preferably living within driving distance of either Port Everglades or the Port of San Diego.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[cruz chic]

I am curious about the many statements I have read on this forum about cruises being cheaper than they were 10 years ago.

 

We haven't found that to be the case - when we started cruising we paid

$200 pp per day for a Panama Canal cruise. We have never been able to find cruises for less than that and usually they cost more. Our upcoming cruise is over $240 pp per day and that doesn't include port charges or taxes - and this is for an OV cabin on the lowest deck every time.

and this was purchased when our dollar was at par.

My SIL just paid off her cruise and had to pay $3000 extra for the exchange rate since our dollar has dropped so low.

 

It is obvious that companies can't cut prices and keep the same standards in place and we still cruise because of the experience and no longer expect what we once had with HAL.

 

Hey - I would gladly make my own bed if they would bring back the activities they used to have!

Maybe because we are Canadians we "get" to pay more. I've been cruising off and on since 1984. The price I pay now is the same I paid back then. Of course once you adjust that for the time value of money the cruise would be cheaper today. I paid $5900 for my last cruise of 26 days and $2700 for the one in March...not exactly a deal for either one of them. This is for the cheapest inside on the ship. If HAL or Princess can't make money off that then they should not be in business IMO.

[TCF]

I have to agree with pretty much everything that has been said on the thread and thank sails7 for starting the thread. This stuff needs to be said and discussed by those of us who take cruising seriously; really, as part of our lifestyle.

Here are some thoughts that came to me while reading the thread.

Staffing is a problem for HAL, and other lines, not only because labour is a large part of their costs, but also beause they are having as much trouble attracting and holding onto their service crews in particular, as they are paying them.

They pay their international crew in $US. With the decline in the value of the $US on international markets the crews have really taken a pay cut over the past year. In addition experienced crew in Indonesia and the Philipines are less prepared to leave family and home for six months at a time for $US. The point I am trying to make here is that a reduction in service may be as much to do with not being able to hire and maintain enough crew on the ships as it HAL deciding to reduce crews and service to save costs.

The food on HAL ships is very high quality. The quantity is, IMO, is way over the top!! Three different salad choices at the front of the Lido buffet...PLUS...six different salad choices at the salad bar!!!! And not low end salads either!!!

And yes...I just want to slap the guy who can't find a thing to eat and insists on whining about it to anyone who will listen.

From a corporate perspective...HAL could save a huge amount of money by cutting back on the quality of the three marketing mailings they send me a week!!! OK...that is an exageration...but I do get one a week and sometoimes two from HAL! These are four colour, high end card stock pieces. Send me the Mariner once a quarter....email as often as they want and save the printing and mailing costs!

We just cancelled a12 day Carnival reposition cruise from Hawaii...because it turned out to be way to expensive for what we were going to get...and for what we thought we had bought six months ago. The cost went up 30% just because of the disparity between the $US and $CDN! An incease of over $1000CDN!!!

We replaced it with a 10 day HAL cruise...with a way more exciting itinerary...for almost $3000CDN cheaper than the Carnival cruise!!!

Shop around people....HAL may have been "expensive", "premium", a year ago but it is in the race with others now!!! HAL is competitive.

Yes, we are going to see cuts in service, and maybe even quality, but as others have said....HAL must be very cautious that it does not wind up giving itself "death by a thousand tiny cuts", ...because as loyal as we may want to be there may come a time when we have to say "enough is enough", and move on!!

 

 

 

[kryos]

Hi Rita,

I used to stay at Embassy Suites on business sometimes and depending on what you're used to, Embassy Suites is in the medium range. I think the amenities and corporate agreements allow them to keep the fairly profitable business customers. I know that when we didn't have a company office, it helped us to be able to work and plan in the living room area of a suite, and to meet for breakfast and/or after work in the common area.

Trish

That must be it then. I know I was surprised when I got the itinerary confirmation from the group I'm joining there. I knew about those amenities, but assumed they were only for groups such as ours who rent conference rooms too (all the training takes place in the hotel as well). When I got the brochure, which is a general hotel brochure sent to any prospective guest, and saw that everyone staying there gets those amenities like the cocktail party and made to order breakfast, I was shocked. But then there are some things missing, like free parking, free internet, etc. We were told that we'd have to pay for those things on our own if we wanted them. Well, I don't drive ... parking problem solved ... and I'm not even dragging the laptop along. For this short trip, I think I can do without access to the internet. :)

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[nchank]

Expectations and satisfaction will vary from person to person based on...a lot of things.

 

We have sailed the Baltic for $2600. We have also sailed it for $999...no complaints on either occasion. We saw people griping on both cruises. It seems people will complain no matter what.

 

If you suggest that dinners might not be up to former glory, desserts not quite as exotic, entertainment not quite as professional, bar bills will be more expensive, well maybe that is fair.

 

Cruiselines will still have to do the basics well. Cabin odors, failed plumbing, malfunctioning electronics, getting DR preferences right etc will still have to be up to standard.

 

 

There will always be complaints, but some will be more justified than others.

 

I for one will not give carte blanche to cruiselines to cut, trim, prune or otherwise diminish the cruise experience as a general principle. It seems even in the good times cruise companies were forever exploring new ways to generate revenue which caused far more seasoned HAL cruisers than me to lament for "the good old days". There has always been a healthy tension between cruise providers and cruise passengers with respect to perceived value for dollar. I expect that to remain.

 

Now times are tough, and cruiselines have gone on a buying spree of newbuilds which I am sure they are re-appraising the wisdom of.

 

I am willing to cut them a little slack, but they are still selling vacation experiences and we are still buying them.

 

Diminish the experience too much, and I'm history.

 

smooth sailing always...

 

I agree. If the Cruise Lines cut back too much I won't complain, I'll just spend my hard earned $ somewhere else. JMO