Royal Champions

[megr1125]

As I pointed out pages ago, this is probably true. It does not negate the fact however that the company had other purposes than thanking their champions. And it is the constant denial of this fact that annoys me to death. Whatever you all THOUGHT was going on, the company had very specific aims, and feels that they have been successful at this. They aimed to influence postings. They made a plan and carried it out. And no amount of saying I didn't feel influenced, I posted what I thought, etc, changes that fact. It simply confirms that they were good at it. Until it all unraveled.

 

+1....exactly!

[eroller]

Obviously they didn't care much of the how or they may have pressed RCI for their criteria. All they knew is that they were one of the "chosen". Happy Day!!!

 

 

 

 

I agree with the above. I don't there are any "victims" in this marketing scheme. If Royal Caribbean approached you with the title of "Royal Champion" what would you think? I would think they wanted me to be an advocate for the brand and everything that goes along with it. I might even expect some perks and sure enough Royal Caribbean delivered on that. Certainly I would have concerns that moving forward I may lack credibility being part of a group devoted to promoting Royal Caribbean. By offering perks Royal Caribbean essentially paid these "champions" to be promoters of the brand.

 

From what I read, it appears that Cruise Critic voluntarily became the middle-man at Royal Caribbean's request. Although they could not give out emails directly to Royal Caribbean, they did act on their behalf and this was their mistake. I would think they would know better being the type of organization they are, and that they accept advertising from a variety of Royal Caribbean's competitors for revenue.

 

I'm not sure anyone owes anyone a statement of what went down at this point, and I'm not sure anyone is really willing to come forward with the entire truth. I do think an apology from CC and RCI to it's members and customers would be appropriate (instead of placing blame) and an announcement that RC program is being discontinued.

 

Ernie

[Goldryder]

One thing is for certain, a couple of the RC's have made it perfectly clear that despite the requests by staff here NOT to get personal with anyone...Hazence, CruisinMike and myself have been singled out for personal attack (or whatever you wish to call it). I have noticed that neither of us have risen to it, thus making the two RC's attempts at being disrespectful pretty much a waste of time and energy.

 

As much as this is very hard to say, it is starting to come across as the RC's can do no wrong & say no wrong...yet if any of us who wish to keep this board IMPARTIAL say anything, we get posts deleted.

 

So the level of distrust steps up a gear and this will inevitably lead to problems. I really hope that the PR firm and RCI are satisfied with the results of their experiment....assuming, of course, that they actually wanted the proverbial to hit the fan in the way it has...by the bucketload.

[xpcdoojk]

Good point. Would I be more correct if I said instead of a "secret" group, that they are a "little known" group?

Because if they were so well known for the past 2 years, then why does there seem to be so darn many people here that have never heard of them, or really what they stood for? :confused:

 

Of course, perhaps everyone on this thread except for me had heard of them before and knew about their RCer group.

 

Little known because nobody bothered to read their silly threads or to look at their signatures and ask them.

 

The conspiracy fans have taken a mole hill and they have successfully created a mountain.

 

Of course, the fact that is is just a mountain of horse manure doesn't seem to bother them at all.

 

jc

[jaxon41]

The reason this is called a "viral" campaign is because it does "infect" like a virus the dynamic on an internet Board.

 

RCCL never intended its motives to be in the public domain, did it? If they were about a "thank you"...why not? They can hardly deny now ...something they were most proud of when addressing that Marketing group. Folks who understand this are watching the integrity of their corporate response....not just some here on CC.

 

RCCL should post the entire text of Ms. Hannock's address to that Marketing Convention. If they were proud of this viral program THERE...be proud enough to share it with the targets...the Champs and Chumps.

 

You have to be taken with the karmic beauty of it -- hoisted with their own petard!

 

Jaxon -- Royal Chump, charter member

[Weho5]

Frankly my vision of hell would be to be stuck on a cruise ship with one to two thousand travel agents - even real estate agents are better than that (though just barely). Nonetheless it is my view that this program, which could not have existed without the conspiracy of Cruise Critic, has created an uneven playing field on behalf of RCCL. I wonder how the management of Trip Advisor feels about this and whether Cruise Critic's actions fall within Trip Advisors standards of ethical conduct (Trip Advisor acquired Crise Critic in 2008).

[jaxon41]

Mike...you made a great post. But no matter how many times the FACTS are stated, the rumor mill and misinformation continues to rule and some people will never open their eyes to the truth. At some point I'm expecting to find out who really shot Kennedy. It's maddening how this issue has become a folk tale and it gains more misinformation with every telling.

 

If members here are going to base their entire opinion of Cruise Critic on wrong information then we may not be able to change that. But you're cutting off your nose to spite your face. The truth has been stated. The rest is just gang mentality to create a problem where none exists.

 

My disclaimer...I'm a Diamond Level cruiser with RCI. I was once given a free excursion in St. Maarten because of my Diamond Level status. I've also attended Cruise Critic gatherings on NCL where I received TWO free drinks because I was a Cruise Critic member. Oh, and I got an invitation from Direct Buy in the mail on Thursday. It's an exclusive club for people who want to save money on items for their house, etc. when you decorate or remodel. I've been given a free pass to visit the showroom but I'm skepticle about being involved with something that may label me biased towards Direct Buy.

 

OMG -- only the stern is out of the water, now -- arooooogah, arooooogah, man the life boats! (Gosh, I'm glad I attend muster drills, and pay CAREFUL attention).

And don't forget, Cecelia, to echo Ms Turner's words of sadness.

 

Jaxon -- Royal Chump, charter member

[Bakincakes]

Little known because nobody bothered to read their silly threads or to look at their signatures and ask them.

 

The conspiracy fans have taken a mole hill and they have successfully created a mountain.

 

Of course, the fact that is is just a mountain of horse manure doesn't seem to bother them at all.

 

jc

 

 

Uh uh.

 

The fact that members of this site were used by RCI doesn't bother you at all?

 

The fact that posters who were critical of RCI were bashed and trampled by RCs and RC wannabees doesn't bother you?

 

The fact that posts made that were critical of RCI may have been removed from this site doesn't bother you?

 

If you categorize this mess as a mole hill then you have made being obtuse an art form.

 

RCI approached a well known site and asked for "help" with a viral marketing plan? Did RCI tell CC that is why they wanted certain names? Did CC then pass on those names and addys, without first getting the permission of those members? Did CC get anything from RCI for providing those names?

 

Doesn't sound like a mole hill to me. More like a mountain of RCI and CCs making.

[jaxon41]

Ernie,

And CC doesn't even see that RCI threw them under the bus when it stated they left the transparency aspects to CC -- unbelievable!!

[vator90]

Ok, lets anylize what we know.

1. The new marketing campaign "Why not" isn't the best recieved.

2. The cruise line needs to shore up the bottom line for financing. They have also disolved the dividend.

3. They are cutting anything they can onboard to shave expenses.

4. They aren't selling out the new mega ships, and aren't dropping prices to do so.

5. The "Royal Champion" campaign of subterfuge has blown up in their face. Repeat customers are easier to keep than finding new ones, so this could be an issue.

In the end the majority of the blame belongs at the feet of who(m)ever is controlling P/R and/or Marketing in Miami. Because there appears to be several misteps taken in a short period of time.

If they don't start fixing something there may be nothing left to fix.

[TEXASMUNK]

Before you stop beating it???

 

The drum beat of what is closely becoming hate has reached a point where this thread needs to go poof!

[Bakincakes]

Before you stop beating it???

 

The drum beat of what is closely becoming hate has reached a point where this thread needs to go poof!

 

 

Absolutely.

 

Get rid of the thread and let all the questions linger. Everything can go back to "normal" and all will be well.:rolleyes:

 

CC and RCI can end this discussion by coming clean.

[jaxon41]

Admittedly, I have the same uneasy feeling about an Admin and those comments. Whether the Admin states so or not, the Admin title comes with it a status within this group. Whether the Admin speaks for themselves or the company, it reflects on both regardless. I don't think I'm going to need much more to conclude if CC is in complicty with the RC folks when it comes to trying to get out of this topic.

 

To the point, it is not the individual posters on this site who need to move on. It is the CC organization. You, as a group, need to decide where the business goes from here. You need to be clear in your guidelines. If you haven't sensed it, it's a betrayal of what you have stated up front:

 

"Cruise Critic's Cruise boards, as well as the information you read in our Member's Cruise Review Library, and our Cruiser's Choice Poll are designed to help cruisers obtain unbiased cruise-related information and discuss ways to make cruising more enjoyable, and perhaps even offer you a money-saving tip or two!"

 

If the policy goes hand-in-hand with allowing CC members to be agents of one of your revenue making advertisers, just be clear about it. The conflict is too obvious and a CC Host or Admin can cry the blues about this being discussed over and over again, but I for one see these folks doing the same dance as the RC group. Maybe I'm a consipiracy theorist also and one of the hosts or Admin could clue me in on that also.

 

excellent I think is time to preserve this thread.

[5waldos]

Before you stop beating it???

 

The drum beat of what is closely becoming hate has reached a point where this thread needs to go poof!

 

Hate of whom or what? Hate of unethical marketing practices? Yep. Sure 'nough. I'll admit to that. I hate that sort of thing. Will do my best to fight against it. If blowing it out of the water works- great.

[Hlitner]

I am pasting another post that I put on a new thread yesterday. The "Admin" closed that thread with a comment that there already was another thread on the subject (this one), however, unlike many similar situations the "Admin" did not bother to move my post here.

 

...............................

I have been posting to CC for many years, but more recently have posted very few things in the cruise line blogs (most of my posts are on the European boards) because it just seemed like many posters were simply "cheerleaders" for their favorite cruise line and made it a practice to flame or try to overwhelm any negative posts. Well, now we have an article in USA Today http://blogs.usatoday.com/cruiselog/ and March 13, which raises some issues about RCI trying to exercise some control over postings on this board (and others) by giving support to posters who support their line. In the interest of full disclosure, several years ago I received an e-mail from a than RCCL Vice President thanking me for a postive post. But, all I did get was a thank you

 

Hank

[hazence]

"Of course, the fact that is is just a mountain of horse manure doesn't seem to bother them at all."

 

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

 

Now this viral marketing might be expanded many ways. Suppose tomorrow...in your workplace...the Boss appears and announces 30 employees ...some new hires, some old hands...are getting big cash bonuses out of the blue. He calls these employees "Bosses Champions." He invites them to parties at his home where they can mingle with him off hours. They come to work, call him by his first name, and tell you all about it.

 

Think about that a bit. Think how it would affect the dynamic between those "special" employees and the others. You other workers would have no idea what the deal was. OF course, it's just human nature that everyone would like a big cash bonus. Old hands would look at the new hires that got the bonus and wonder...what is the Boss doing here?

 

Do you think ,just maybe... as a result of being treated as "special"..the Chosen Ones might feel that your common workplace is a lot more perfect than it used to be? Do you think they might just like it all the more...even if once in awhile they complained a bit...because now they were The Big Dogs somewhere? Who doesn't like a place where you are made...for no apparent reason...more ELITE...than everybody else.

 

What if a few of them got very defensive whenever anyone voiced a workplace complaint? Would you speak freely in their presence? Would you try to "be like" them so the Boss might ask you to join them too. Would you start to flatter and play up to the Boss , remembering that bonus...in "wannabe" fashion? Might you not treat The Chosen Ones as special too...rising always to defend them?

 

Would your workplace TRULY be unaffected by the boss setting up this program?

 

And what if you found out the boss was watching his "Chosen workers"...monitoring them...to make sure whatever he was doing..was"worth it."

 

On the Internet...in a forum to post opinions...all those human reactions are magnified. Marketing studies prove this.

 

That's why RCCL came into this forum with their viral marketing Royal Champion "plan." They understood how human nature would play it out.

[emdia43]

The reason this thread won't die is that it still doesn't pass the sniff test..

[benicehavefun]

When admins continue to use the term misinformation, I think they mean...Facts we don't like.

 

And either they knew what was going on and were part of it or they were pawns and manipulated as well. If they knew and were in on it, then obviously CC members want to know. If they were pawns and we were all manipulated, then obviously CC members want to know (and wouldn't CC want to know they were RCI's pawns and wouldn't they be a bit outraged as well as examine how they do things?).

[jaxon41]

a web site owned by a company. It is not a country or state. The owners have the right to be delete posts, or ban people. Being a Cruise Critic member is voluntary. You or me, any of us can go elsewhere if we don't like how they operate the web forums.

no disagreement -- I am sorry my analogy lost something in the translation, but only part of it was trying to explain why an uprising begins, in the hopes that those doing damage control would begin to get a clue as to how to prevent it -- it appears any suggestion on how to bail out the ship just fall on deaf ears.

 

The other concept I hoped to convey was that when businesses behave irresponsibly, entire industries are hurt. What happens when viral marketing, not following the ethical guidelines of the association set up to give guidance, spreads like a grass fire? What happens when it includes buzzploitation of minors?

 

More happens than just a series called Madmen.

[jaxon41]

 

Now, do you have a link for the misinformation that I have posted or or are you being a product of the misinformation gang yourself. CC can ban me for honest questions. But once you throw out the misinformation title, you better back it up!

I generally just read, post, scroll, but when I saw that!!!!!! I said, I best just scroll on, because that accusation will not be allowed to lie. Now, I might just mark my spot, and scroll on, because it had better be answered forthwith.

[Ephraim]

... saying RCI higher prices are to separate cruisers by class...

 

Sorry for shortening the quote. As far as I know RCI's prices are a function of the fact that it's product is different than other company's product and that some people value the product differently. Since the inception of RCI in 1968 and the building of the Song of Norway the company has been differentiating itself from it's competition because they built their ships and they worked on building the most efficient ship around. The whole process is well described in Kristoffer A. Garin's Devils on the Deep Blue Sea. That is the point of building ships like Oasis and Allure, they need to keep that particular edge or innovation that brings in higher prices. Nothing nefarious like trying to keep people in two classes. But it is obvious that there are differences in what you receive when you are in a balcony or in an inside cabin. Some people won't travel without a balcony and some of us are just happy that we are on the ship. Different strokes for different folks. (Remember that different doesn't have a value... blue is different from yellow, doesn't make either of them better... just different.)

 

Forgot to mention, if someone needs horse meat, the supermarket sells it at CAD$9.24 a kilo. That's about $3.29 a pound. With all the beating that a dead horse takes, it's probably damn tender by now :)

 

... Ephraim...

 

OT... I'm just happy when my name is spelled correctly and no one is saying nasty things about me. Yeah, me! Sorry... back on topic...

[benicehavefun]

Rather. I don't see a lot of people from this board posting on the other lines threads. Seems to be more from the other lines, especially Carnival Cheerleaders who come to invade this board than the former. JMHO

 

Since we can't hand out p-----n anymore, sour grapes anyone?

[hazence]

[/color]

 

I generally just read, post, scroll, but when I saw that!!!!!! I said, I best just scroll on, because that accusation will not be allowed to lie. Now, I might just mark my spot, and scroll on, because it had better be answered forthwith.

 

Please tell us what misinformation has been posted here regarding this viral marketing endeavor.

 

Champs did not know....(agreed long ago.)

 

CC just acted as go-between agent for RCCL and the Champs... believing this to be a "thank you to certain cruisers like a fruit bowl....(sort of understood)

 

Nothing was demanded for the gift of being a Champ....(understood.)

 

Champs were never told how to post....(understood)

 

given THAT...what other "misinformation" are we spreading?

 

Now a few for CC...

 

What is your opinion of having a viral marketing scheme here on CC that your posters are unaware of?

 

Are there or will there be others?

 

If they do not effect the Board and change nothing and are harmless and serve no purpose at all....why is RCCL monitoring this Board?

 

Why are they expanding this (supposedly) worthless program when they are cutting back everywhere else?

[benicehavefun]

Sorry for shortening the quote. As far as I know RCI's prices are a function of the fact that it's product is different than other company's product and that some people value the product differently. Since the inception of RCI in 1968 and the building of the Song of Norway the company has been differentiating itself from it's competition because they built their ships and they worked on building the most efficient ship around. The whole process is well described in Kristoffer A. Garin's Devils on the Deep Blue Sea. That is the point of building ships like Oasis and Allure, they need to keep that particular edge or innovation that brings in higher prices. Nothing nefarious like trying to keep people in two classes. But it is obvious that there are differences in what you receive when you are in a balcony or in an inside cabin. Some people won't travel without a balcony and some of us are just happy that we are on the ship. Different strokes for different folks. (Remember that different doesn't have a value... blue is different from yellow, doesn't make either of them better... just different.)

 

...

 

I think you missed my observation, sorry, again should have used more words. On another RCI thread, something like "Why are RCI's prices higher?" an OP said that prices were higher to seperate class. i.e. RCI higher class people, others lower class and not wanted. It is NOT something I believe, just a statement made by a "new" member with a March 09 join date, 2 posts, but spouting the same stuff we've seen here before. Just a posting thing going on with a bunch of so-called "new" members that might be just new identities posting the same ...stuff... and is interesting to note. More influence and repercussions.

 

You do however have good points and happy cruising!

[Goldryder]

This is IT??????? Oh, my word!

 

If you are only speaking for yourself, why do you use the admin avatar? I would have to recheck all your posts, but I know moderator Mike included in his that he was speaking for himself -- I've only seen you mention it once.

 

As far as I am aware, the role of a staffmember on a discussion board is to make sure that board rules/guidelines are not ignored, bent or just disregarded by any member or sponsor/advertiser.

 

Staffmembers should always be unbiased in their opinions of company practices and should not be made uncomfortable in voicing concerns or being critical of something a company does or says. Any staffmember that does let a company dictate what they say in public is playing into the hands of that company, thus is no longer impartial. Staffmembers have an opinion and should voice it without fear of retribution from a company that happens to pay lots of money into the site coffers...otherwise the company has effectively bought that staffmember's opinion, by fear of stepping on the toes of those that feed to coffers and that is sad and plain wrong.

 

I would like all staff on here to voice their true feelings about this scheme, they are not sposed to be mouthpieces for the company concerned and if the CC management got it wrong and they made a mistake by getting involved in this scheme, they should be man or woman enough to say sorry and that they regret the hurt, upset and anger it has caused their members.

 

So far the only mod who has voiced his own feelings on this is Mike and even he got a rebuke from more senior staff for doing so and that pretty much sums up what everyone thinks. No transparency, no apologies and apart from Mike, seemingly no personal feelings or opinions that waver from the company line. What a shame.