Royal Champions

[5waldos]

I think that it will work in the way that so many who have been involved to date claim it has always worked because what the RC's have been trying to tell you is that was the original intended way.

 

The RC group has repeated said that they had NO IDEA what was going on. If a company wants to thank someone, they usually send a nice letter and thank them for their actions, and then perhaps offer them a reward. Why would they keep their intentions secret? This makes no sense to me.

[cassieroll]

You're not speaking for me with that comment.

You don't feel used at all? Not even a tiny bit? You were mislead!

[fungirl28]

I joined CC because I was interested in cruising. I've stayed on the boards because there is some really useful information about the ships,ports and excursions I have been or am currently interested in. I've met a couple of people form these boards and gained friends that while I don't get to see, I chat with all the time. A few are RC's, most are not. Personally, I could not care any less about what kind of perk a RC may get or not. I read my reviews form the main cruise critic site. I make a decision based on my preferences. A negative review gets the same kind of attention that a positive review does. I cruise based on my likes or dislikes, not a review that basically said the ship was perfect, the cruise was perfect and the food was perfect.(I've never read a review like that). Neither do I give much credence to reviews that villify everything from the room steward to the peeling paint on the middle rail on the aft pool deck. 50 or so people, even if they lied about every review or opinion they've posted, would not cause me to doubt the validity of every review I read thereafter. I sincerely doubt that they have that kind of time on their hands. And even if they did, it wouldn't matter to me. I'm a firm believer in a cruise is what you make it. I could never base all my travel plans based on someone elses opinion. I'm going to go because I need to get away on a vacation, preferabl where I cannot be reached by phone.:)

[Kathleen Tucker]

This lone point has been rehashed several times now, but I'll ask again. How is an invitation to a pre-inaugural sailing - something generally not offered to the public - not an incentive?

 

I think the distinction is that there's no quid pro quo -- they were not given the invite in exchange for a positive review.

 

So here's another thought -- if the pre-inaugurals are not open to the public, then you know anyone that's been on them has gotten it for free. So everything anyone writes about a pre-inaugural, no matter who they are, you'll know from now on they got it for free.

 

Kathleen

[glgolfer]

This lone point has been rehashed several times now, but I'll ask again. How is an invitation to a pre-inaugural sailing - something generally not offered to the public - not an incentive?

 

you've been one of the reasoned voices on here and i'll try to answer.

 

travel agents, media types, diamond plus and anyone else rci wants to are invited to preinaugurals. nobody thinks of it as an incentive, just something they do to publicize a new ship and create hoopla.

i think if we thought anything it was they were getting a cross section of cc posters to see the new ship along with the other usual suspects. hard to be an incentive when none of us knew at the time it was on an ongoing thing. we went, came back and posted what we thought. answered questions and went on with our lives.

 

that's the liberty story.

 

we paid our own way there and home. that's the only "free" time we've spent on a ship.

[hazence]

I think that it will work in the way that so many who have been involved to date claim it has always worked because what the RC's have been trying to tell you is that was the original intended way.

 

I find it interesting that some people here continue to believe everything on every blog that has written about Royal Champions, even when factual errors have been pointed out on some of the blogs, some of whom clearly didn't check their facts. Yet they refuse to believe anything we say here. The consumerist blog didn't even get Rachel Hancock's name correct -- (that's a fact) but how do you know that she wasn't misquoted? Or that her words weren't taken out of context? Or that any of it is true?

 

I think people will believe what they want to believe, regardless of what anyone says about this issue or any other. I've done my best to explain what has happened here. Royal Caribbean has also explained. The RC's have tried to explain.

 

Kathleen

 

 

Is RCCL stating that Ms. Hancock's comments to that conference were reported falsely? If so, that would be an important correction. Will they provide the comments she actually made?

 

At some point I imagine others at the conference will speak up. It seems within the marketing community RCCL was most pleased with the results. What results? Driving off unfavorable posters?

 

I agree with Swaldos last post. As a new poster...but as a long time reader..the dynamic here has changed. There is increased intolerance from posters for opinions unfavorable to RCCL. There is more pack mentality...follow the CHAMP leader...and fawning that appears to be "try-outs" for this program. It takes a lot for a poster to stand up to this and be a participant here.

 

This website is a valuable resource. But it must not foster a two tier system where some commenters are bullied away by Brand enthusiasts and those trying to be deemed "CHAMPS."

 

We accept and respect everything you say...but that does not deal with the collateral damage of this type of program.

[glgolfer]

The RC group has repeated said that they had NO IDEA what was going on. If a company wants to thank someone, they usually send a nice letter and thank them for their actions, and then perhaps offer them a reward. Why would they keep their intentions secret? This makes no sense to me.

 

so, are you calling all of us collectively purveyers of untruths?

 

if not, what are you doing?

[Kathleen Tucker]

The RC group has repeated said that they had NO IDEA what was going on. If a company wants to thank someone, they usually send a nice letter and thank them for their actions, and then perhaps offer them a reward. Why would they keep their intentions secret? This makes no sense to me.

 

I was on the Liberty of the Seas sailing (I'm not an RC) and met many Cruise Critic members onboard. Some were invited as RC's, some weren't. Some were TA's, some where guests of TAs, some were D+. I attended the thank you party for the RC's. It was simply that. Some of the RC's missed the RC cocktail party because of poor communication. I also think, knowing what I know now, that this may have started as a one-time thing and then a year later, another opportunity came up and they invited some of them to to the Oasis press event. Then they wanted some feedback on their website and their ad campaign and it kind of evolved. This is my personal opinion.

[Cruising89143]

Since some of you question our postings, I just went back and pulled up what I would call a review of some sorts. This was AFTER I was given the title of RC and had just cruised on NCL. Make sure that you read the entire thread.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=663781&highlight=navigator+debarkation

[eroller]

 

So here's another thought -- if the pre-inaugurals are not open to the public, then you know anyone that's been on them has gotten it for free. So everything anyone writes about a pre-inaugural, no matter who they are, you'll know from now on they got it for free.

 

Kathleen

 

 

Very true. It's one reason I take reviews from even professional writers with a grain of salt after a pre-inaugural. I know they have been wined and dined and shown the best of what the cruise line has to offer ... all for free. Lets face it, it's hard to be completely objective after the red carpet has been unfurled for you. Human nature kicks in at some point. It's one reason why most so-called "professional" reviews of new ships tend to be very positive. Even professional writers don't want to risk not getting invited back to the next inaugural, and trust me the cruise lines read every article of those they invite. Sure they will point out some areas of opportunity, but they are very careful in how it's presented. You can look to your own professional reviews on CC as an example. They can be a good read, but for the most part I don't feel they are very objective. You are a site that promotes cruising, so of course I expect your reviews to put a positive spin on the experience. It's all in support of the cruise industry as a whole. This being said, if I want the "real deal" I will read a sample of reviews from the average cruiser who has no affiliation with the cruise industry.

 

Of course I'm not just talking about Royal Caribbean here, but any cruise line.

 

It's one reason I have a lot of respect for Douglas Ward. He is one of the most famous cruise ship reviewers in the industry. I don't always agree with his findings, but he tells it like it is. He has even been banned by one cruise line for not rating them high enough. That didn't stop him. My understanding is that he and his staff pay their own way, and board the ship unannounced. That is truly the only way to be objective as you are assured of no special treatment.

 

Ernie

[Davey Interweb]

I think the distinction is that there's no quid pro quo -- they were not given the invite in exchange for a positive review.

 

So here's another thought -- if the pre-inaugurals are not open to the public, then you know anyone that's been on them has gotten it for free. So everything anyone writes about a pre-inaugural, no matter who they are, you'll know from now on they got it for free.

 

Kathleen

 

I've never thought (nor have I indicated here in any of my posts) of these invites as a reward for a "positive" review. From what I've seen personally, I know there are at least a couple of RCs that have been objective in their comments or advice regarding Royal Caribbean. I think these fine folks are helpful and even an asset to the board. Others? Not so much, and I think they're abrasive to boot. At any rate, I do recognize that <insert perk here> is simply a bone that Royal Caribbean has sought fit to toss. I would not fault one of the RCs for accepting it. They have their own moral compass, and it's not my place to judge them.

 

I do still think an invitation to a pre-inaugural is an incentive. It has tangible value, even if it does sound like a nightmare to be stuck on an enormous ship filled with possibly-intoxicated travel agents.

[GXmanDC]

Is RCCL stating that Ms. Hancock's comments to that conference were reported falsely? If so, that would be an important correction. Will they provide the comments she actually made?

 

At some point I imagine others at the conference will speak up. It seems within the marketing community RCCL was most pleased with the results. What results? Driving off unfavorable posters.

 

I agree with Swaldos last post. As a new poster...but as a long time reader..the dynamic here has changed. There is increased intolerance from posters for opinions unfavorable to RCCL. There is more pack mentality...follow the CHAMP leader...and fawning that appears to be "try-outs" for this program. It takes a lot for a poster to stand up to this and be a participant here.

 

This website is a valuable resource. But it must not foster a two tier system where some commenters are bullied away by Brand enthusiasts and those trying to be deemed "CHAMPS."

 

We accept and rspect everything you say...but that does not deal with the collateral damage of this type of program.

 

I apprehensively post this. We don't agree on the RC issue. I had abandoned this thread but tonight a moderator combined a new thread I found funny with the RC thread so I came back.

 

I do agree that there is a pack mentality on Internet boards and not just on CC. I've posted critical comments about RCI and other lines on here. I was immediately attacked. What I noticed was that the attacks didn't come from the RCs. Others did it. I think it is inaccurate to connect the attack pack to the RCs.

 

If you've read the RCs posts over the years, they're not actually very good cheerleaders. Look back at their posts about the Chops Steak in the MDR, the Oasis, changes in Labadee, the retirement of the classic ships, etc. Many of them post very lengthy and critical reviews of their journeys. They've responded to questions and concerns from the community and provided a wealth of information. I'm thankful for what I've learned from them and glad I had the experience of their knowledge.

[5waldos]

so, are you calling all of us collectively purveyers of untruths?

 

if not, what are you doing?

 

No, I am not calling you anything. I have said a number of times that IF the program was the viral marketing program as described, I would anticipate that the positive results RCCL claimed to be happy about would consist of a bend to the more positive. I would not expect it to make anyone lie about their experiences. If something was negative I would anticipate people complaining about it. More rosy glasses perhaps might be one way of explaining it. Good things might seem a bit better, bad things easier to write off. Just a minor shift in opinion would be a nice outcome for RCCL. A bit greater understanding of problems that come up. And a bit more blame on the individual cruiser if their cruise didn't live up to expectations. Nothing wildly overt.

[jaxon41]

Hazence and Jaxon, I just wanted to say thanks.

I have enjoyed your posts and inquiries that seem to get pushed off by those that want this to go away without facing responsability.

It appears that you guys really get it. That viral marketing is a pestilance and that those who propogate it are not to be taken at face value for their view of things.

If my views of your views are mistaken, please feel free to correct me.

 

Thanks -- they are to be taken at face value, nothing more -- what you see, is what you get. Very difficult navigating this tonight -- must have merging and deleting going on. I appear to be missing things.

[Ephraim]

Why does what is supposed to be a fair and honest discussion of issues seem to be a shouting match between people wearing ear plugs?

 

• Will CC put in place a policy in regards to content authenticity? (like Trip Advisor)
  
• Will RCL publicly comment on this fiasco?
  

Who ever is keeping the list of which side people are on tell me which side of this argument I'm on... since I don't even know.

 

All generalizations are false, even this one.

[jaxon41]

Again, Great Post!

 

welcome home -- nice trip, I hope.

[JohnR49er]

Jim Garrison must be rolling in his grave, wishing he were here to link the Royal Champs with the hobos on the grassy knoll.........:D

[Alexis]

We were never gone and if anyone thinks that what has transpired will keep us from posting they are going to be very disappointed. I have been posting on this board for a long time and my style of posts have not changed from day one. If anyone decides that they cannot trust me then that is their choice and I respect that but don't think for one moment that the Royal Champions are going to run with our tail between our legs and hide.

 

If I could reach through and hug you I would. My thoughts exactly.

I might not be posting on this thread much anymore, but I am still around.

I also intend to remain all over the place and post as I always have. ;)

As I have been doing.

My avatar will stay the same, my name will remain the same and I will not change my signature.

And, I have a very long tail. Much too long to hide.:D

[eroller]

Since some of you question our postings, I just went back and pulled up what I would call a review of some sorts. This was AFTER I was given the title of RC and had just cruised on NCL. Make sure that you read the entire thread.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=663781&highlight=navigator+debarkation

 

I don't think you have anything to worry about. You have always been objective and I know you will continue to do so. You also have a lot of experience with other cruise lines, which gives you a different perspective then those that just cruise Royal Caribbean.

 

With or without the RC title, I have always enjoyed your posts and contributions.

 

I have noticed one constant about all the RC's, and that is they post a lot. I'm not just talking about a couple thousand posts but more like 10,000 or more. I guess this is one of the things RCI was looking for, and that makes sense. I've been a member here longer then most, and I thought I posted a good bit. I'm quickly discovering that is not the case. I've been here since 2000 and I "only" have 2500 posts. I guess I better get busy! ;)

 

Ernie

[hazence]

so, are you calling all of us collectively purveyers of untruths?

 

if not, what are you doing?

 

Yes, you are all telling the truth. You post as always. You made no commitment to change. There was no APPARENT "tit-for-tat." There were no "bribes."

 

Your integrity is NOT, I repeat, NOT at question.

 

The Marketing scheme is in question. If, indeed, Ms. Hancock was quoted correctly...and it was in quotes...and presented in a favorable way to RCCL....the intent of RCCL eas to create a class of Champs that rccl"would subtly influence WITHOUT THEIR KNOWLEDGE....so that you would influence the rest of us.

 

Marketing is a study of human behavior. Posters here were unknowing Lab rats in this experiment. The giving of a few free cruises, party invitations, special status...made some others react in the way they thought would get them chosen.

 

Perhaps others became more intense in their loyalty...less tolerant of negative opinions.

 

All reacted to this virus in ways we are still understanding. But it was manipulation.

 

IT IS NOT ABOUT CHAMP INTEGRITY.

 

Please.

[ghstudio]

OMG....I actually caught up...but by the time I finish this, there will probably be 3 more pages.

 

Observations:

 

RCI really needs to hire a PR firm. They have managed to do most everything wrong from a PR standpoint. The Hancock quote needs to be dealt with and it is ignored in the "official response"....another PR mistake.

 

CC has responded well, they have taken the time to think about the issue and made some changes that will help their image in the future.

 

RC's: likely picked because they write alot. Nobody comes back to a board that is stagnant so getting some RC's to make posts on the CC RCL board keeps it fresh....no matter what they say. RCL benefits just because people are reading the board.

 

Note to CC Administrators. This discussion is going on in the Celebrity board and likely some others. You should put the "official" statements there too.

[Host Kewlguy]

We were never gone and if anyone thinks that what has transpired will keep us from posting they are going to be very disappointed. I have been posting on this board for a long time and my style of posts have not changed from day one. If anyone decides that they cannot trust me then that is their choice and I respect that but don't think for one moment that the Royal Champions are going to run with our tail between our legs and hide.

 

I'm certainly not running anywhere.

[Tweetynmk]

I recently book a deluxe stateroom gaurantee on the navigator. I was assigned 6692. This does not look like the best location,,,,,,,,,,,,,in the back maybe a lot of motion? Above the ddining room loud? Has anyone stayed here have any suggestions? Thank you

[5waldos]

I Some were invited as RC's, some weren't. CC members were invited who were not RCs?

 

I attended the thank you party for the RC's. It was simply that. So there was an announcement THANK YOU PARTY FOR THE RC GROUP? A speech thanking people for.....for what?

 

This is my personal opinion.

 

If RCL was thanking people, how ever did it decide on the individuals it chose? Wouldn't a thank you program have a plan which was more apparent? High posters or people who had cruised many times or something we could get a handle around?

[Cruising89143]

I don't think you have anything to worry about. You have always been objective and I know you will continue to do so. You also have a lot of experience with other cruise lines, which gives you a different perspective then those that just cruise Royal Caribbean.

 

With or without the RC title, I have always enjoyed your posts and contributions.

 

I have noticed one constant about all the RC's, and that is they post a lot. I'm not just talking about a couple thousand posts but more like 10,000 or more. I guess this is one of the things RCI was looking for, and that makes sense. I've been a member here longer then most, and I thought I posted a good bit. I'm quickly discovering that is not the case. I've been here since 2000 and I "only" have 2500 posts. I guess I better get busy! ;)

 

Ernie

 

Thanks Ernie. It's been a difficult week to say the least. Many of us have had our integrity questioned and it's been hard to hold back at times. Yes, I have a lot of posts. I spend most of my time on this board over all the others. I love to talk about cruising and sharing with others my experiences. I have also had the pleasure of speaking with many of the other Royal Champions and I can assure you that they have the same love of cruising that I and many others have. I can only hope that things will get back to some type of normalcy soon. :)