Royal Champions

[Scotsnomad]

I have attempted to glean most of the facts from the hugh amount of postings, until today I wasnt aware of this topic or should I say heated debate.

 

Not having a non biased opinion of one side of the coin or another my interpretation of this whole mess is plain and simple.

 

With the introduction of the 'Royal Champion' its has been a major PR boost for RCCL. At the expense of decent/honest members they have managed a super coup with little of the normal Media expense. Whether by hook or crook, slip of the tongue or infurring, RCCL has tarnished some members names whilst promoting their products.

 

I have attempted to look at both sides of the coin, but each time I now have doubts as to the impartiality of the RC members knowing that they have been given freebies to allow them to promote a product. No matter how hard one tries that nagging thought will remain.

 

Though they may have vast experience in Cruising, anything orientated towards RCCL is now, in my view, tarnished.

 

The only option I see open is that RCCL cancel this RC promotion and refuse members to use the title 'RC' in any future postings. Its basically now a red rag to a bull and just puts peoples backs up.

 

As I said, previously, these RC members, though innocent cannot fail to agree that this has tarnished their standing in CC and does little to let 'sleeping dogs lie'

 

Before you start slagging me off, Im not putting down you RC's but saying what and how I see it. It is not levied against you as a poster/individual but the status of 'RC' and how the common person sees it.

 

Personally I would not participate in such a scheme, I post honest and open reviews. If any such a scheme were introduced I would expect it to come from the CC site itself. The people nominated by CC would and should be totally annonymous, they should be selected by the cruise they are showing on their postings, when back file a report direct to them. CC, in my view has nothing to gain from such a scheme, its suppose to be an open site and not affiliated to one line or another.

 

The relevant cruise can, if necessary be advised that a Cruise Critic Reporter is embarked on a specific cruise but not who or any other details.

 

The relevant critic, would only report on one trip and put to the back of the pile for someone else to take up the branch. This would then ensure that no one can be highlighted in such a way as a RC.

 

Plain and simple and less controversial !!!!.

 

Wouldnt this be fairer and no one could scream 'fake'

 

Give it your best !!!

[mikepmcm]

I do agree that there is a pack mentality on Internet boards and not just on CC. I've posted critical comments about RCI and other lines on here. I was immediately attacked. What I noticed was that the attacks didn't come from the RCs. Others did it. I think it is inaccurate to connect the attack pack to the RCs.

Steve,

 

I had posted my opinion on the RC boards for someone that was comparing RCI to NCL and was attacked mostly by people from the NCL boards. I decided to check out what the same post on the NCL board and found the attacks on the NCL boards to be much more offensive, to the point of harassment. I looks like the posters on the Carnival boards are the happiest (must be that part atmosphere).

[hazence]

i have one request. please deal in facts and not hearsay or inuendo.

 

there was one 2 night preinaugural, one request to evaluate a website called royal connections, what our dream cruise would be and the oasis media event in nyc. that's what i was involved in.

 

when you say free cruises and free party invitations, it creates a hostile environment to a degree.

 

what you need to understand is the rc were attacked, really attacked before this thread was started. then everything that was posted seemed to attack our integrity.

 

everyone was posting we could not be believed almost to the point it seemed some wanted us banned from the board.

 

keep it factual and not strident as some posts were and there could be a dialogue.

 

Thank you for a reasoned reply.

 

Here's where I'm coming from: I have been a long-time "observer" here. I apologise for alluding to what was "given" in a way that exaggerated it. BUT I will tell you where I got that impression (and my reading comprehension is pretty good)....I got it from reading exchanges here between Champs. Some, not all, are pretty darned pleased with themselves for having an "official title" and "special status"...and it's almost silly to see them in action.

 

But I believe THAT was an intent of RCCL's creation of a two tier system of posters here. Here's what I think (note THINK) happened in this viral marketing intrusion into CC.

 

RCCL did a study that pointed out their most ardent supporters and/or the most vocal posters here. So some weren't "cheerleaders...just a STRONG VOICE on an anonymous Board. They gave you a special status. That in turn gave your posts more authority, more weight to other folks coming here to read.

 

In addition..SOME are influenced by those they think have been deemed "elite." They ape their behavior. Follow their lead. Go to any High School....and watch the entourage around the girl with the title Prom Queen.

 

RCCL built a relationship with all of you...more communication, some invitations...for some a short free cruise. Some of you brought that relationship constantly to the Board. Sometimes it was funny to watch human nature at wirk.

 

But what I saw was also an increased vehemence by some in their treatment of a negative comment of RCCL. Suddenly...it is like we are discussing your family members. Some felt too close I think. The incivility and intolerance was stunning at times. People were frequently driven away...for given their opinion ...on an OPINION BOARD.

 

I made a few posts here on page 41 of this thread and a Royal Champ descended to say I was an illegitamite poster! This is what happens here so very frequently now!

 

ALL this skewed posts in favor of RCCL big time. Mission accomplished there.

 

Others seemed to jump in as if they were "trying out" for the program. Everything seemed "hyper" This, I believe was also the virus at work.

 

End result: things here look and sound a lot rosier for RCCL than it would as things used to be. Some, not all, here act like Mob enforcers to drive off or discredit or humiliate anyone with a complaint. Do you doubt there are lots of quiet folks out there who won't come here and post because THEY TRIED...and were accused of some bizarro motive?

 

Marketing is a science. This Board..so valuable in what it provides should not have been an experiment in how one group (quoting Hancock) "subtly was influenced by their corporation...to influence the rest of us."

 

This honest Board does not need intrusion or manipulation by any big corporation.

 

This is not about any of you. No one here KNEW.

[Ephraim]

Hopefully the PR firm that they hire will be substantially better than the advertising firm that they hired.

 

Why not? :D

[SargassoPirate]

Oh what a difference a week can make. Notice the difference in RCCL's public statement and an email response to me when I inquired about the Royal Champions program. (the bolding of important words is mine)

 

Here's what RCCL said about the Royal Champions in their statement to CC, as posted in post #1 of this thread:

 

"identified by an independent third party on behalf of Royal Caribbean International, as frequently engaging in online discussions and sharing information about cruising on the internet"

 

Here's what they told me in response to my email inquiry about the Royal Champions:

 

"We have identified influential online bloggers and posters"

 

 

Here's what RCCL said about the Royal Champions in their statement to CC, as posted in post #1 of this thread:

 

"they would be a valuable source of information for our current and prospective customers"

 

Here's what they told me in response to my email inquiry about the Royal Champions:

 

"demonstrating a willingness to help others online determine if a Royal Caribbean vacation is right for them"

(In weasel talk, this means selling, such as when a car salesman helps determine if a Ford is right for you!)

 

And here are the words wherein RCCL reveals that the Royal Champions received a FREE CRUISE:

 

"We have provided the Royal Champions with the opportunity to experience our product during pre-inaugural sailings"

[FrancescaH]

I have watched this thread for days... it has certainly been interesting. I understand both sides and find no fault with any CC posters. I do think RCCL pushed the edge of ethics in their actions as they were trying to use for RCCL's benefit the vast experience and trust that some posters here have gained through years of posting. As for CC, I don't think they knew the true intentions of RCCL's marketing strategy.

 

While this program has not made me mistrust the Champs' good/bad opinions as many of them are DP already and get the same types of pre-inaugural invites anyway, I do think that the program creates as many problems as it solves for RCCL as they do hurt the reputations of some of their more vocal supporters in the minds of those newer members who see RCs as little more than mouthpieces for RCCL here.

[Fury1995]

Sorry to jump into this discussion but I wanted to post this slightly off topic question where I knew it would be answered right away.

 

I have been off this forum for a while and am trying to catch up on this topic..

 

I am an invited member of the Royal Champions..

 

Has anyone received a request from Rachel Hancock from RCCL to update info recently? ie. full legal name, birth date, mailing address etc..

 

I just want to make sure this e-mail is on the level..

 

Thanks

[hazence]

And in my opinion...allowing threads that mock "whiners" stifles commentary on this Board as well. Who wants to give an honest criticism and being made an object of posters mockery?

[49holding]

I am so relieved that RCCl has the funds for all this extra marketing and research ( how much did Buzz neilsen cost them?) while at the same time initiating such cost cutting measures as reduced C&A coupons and no pillow chocolates, room service charges, etc. Once i use my RCCL visa points I am done with rccl and their credit card.

[ghstudio]

It is true that any publicity is good publicity so from that perspective you have accidentally succeeded in getting your corporate name in print and certainly there are a number of folks on the internet talking about you. That's good stuff.

 

Now, any PR firm will tell you to make the controversy go away by openly admitting that internally, some were mis-viewing the program....such as Ms Hancock....and although you never actually veered from your original intent (all that Market research stuff), you are going to disband the program. You take the high ground rather than just saying....we are going to continue this controversial program. I know it's real hard for an executive to do a mia culpa....but don't let your ego get in the way of good PR actions.

 

Finally, if you do want to enlist experienced cruisers for market research and/or advice, then do so openly....you can even ask for volunteers in this and the other travel forums. Alternatively, you can mine your own frequent traveler databases...or do random selection which is what market research companies do for a living.

 

To date, you have pretty much gotten most of the steps wrong.....so my real suggestion, again, is to hire a public relations company and not try to do this yourselves.

 

I am speaking as a Celebrity Select customer, an RCL stockholder and a somewhat influential source of cruise/travel information for a wide group of friends in an affluent retirement area.

[Elizanessie]

Best solution is for RCI to scrap the program and draw a line under this sorry mess - given that CC have taken the leadand said they won't take part in this sort of underhanded thing again its up to RCI to respond in kind.

 

 

Sorry can you point me in the direction as to where CC said "underhanded" :confused:

[Elizanessie]

Sorry to jump into this discussion but I wanted to post this slightly off topic question where I knew it would be answered right away.

 

I have been off this forum for a while and am trying to catch up on this topic..

 

I am an invited member of the Royal Champions..

 

Has anyone received a request from Rachel Hancock from RCCL to update info recently? ie. full legal name, birth date, mailing address etc..

 

I just want to make sure this e-mail is on the level..

 

Thanks

 

Hi Kenny

 

Yes in answer to your question :D

[Host Kewlguy]

Sorry to jump into this discussion but I wanted to post this slightly off topic question where I knew it would be answered right away.

 

I have been off this forum for a while and am trying to catch up on this topic..

 

I am an invited member of the Royal Champions..

 

Has anyone received a request from Rachel Hancock from RCCL to update info recently? ie. full legal name, birth date, mailing address etc..

 

I just want to make sure this e-mail is on the level..

 

Thanks

 

Yes, that email was legit.

[LauraS]

The RC'ers weren't but from this post (#38) from LauraS on this thread' date=' it sounds like she knew about it. :confused:[/color']

 

"Now, since I was aware of this program from the very beginning and somewhat involved, I will happy to share what I know to be the facts:"

 

Too bad you didn't quote my entire response, which contained all the facts. See, above? I said "what I know to be the facts".

 

RCI wanted to invite some people to a pre-inaugural sailing. They asked for contact info, instead we sent the invite on to members along w/ the request for permission to their contact share information with Royal Caribbean. At the time there was no name associated with the invite.

[Ephraim]

In case you missed it, USA Today's Cruise Blog (Gene Sloan) has reported that all the major competitors (including Holland America, Norwegian Cruise Line, Princess and Celebrity) have told him that they won't "engage in viral marketing at online message boards."

 

I guess that should end the discussion on the Celebrity board.

[Catnip]

 

I do still think an invitation to a pre-inaugural is an incentive. It has tangible value, even if it does sound like a nightmare to be stuck on an enormous ship filled with possibly-intoxicated travel agents.

 

 

ROTFLMAO!!!!!! :D :D :D Good one!

[SargassoPirate]

In case you missed it, USA Today's Cruise Blog (Gene Sloan) has reported that all the major competitors (including Holland America, Norwegian Cruise Line, Princess and Celebrity) have told him that they won't "engage in viral marketing at online message boards."

 

I guess that should end the discussion on the Celebrity board.

 

 

Thanks for posting that.

 

 

You can sweep stink under the rug, but it still stinks.

[LauraS]

Quote:

I would add that I think the best course of action for the Admins and owners of this site (tripadvisor and expedia) should undertake some swift measures to create more transparency and develop policies that prevent fake tourists, fake posts, and users with an agenda.

 

Cruise Critic, please pay attention, because I've already started looking for alternative forums to get unbiased information. If you take measures to restore integrity to the site, I will likely stick around for years to come. But the more of this fake posting that I discover, and the more cliquey the site becomes, the less likley it is I'll stay.

 

With regard to the above quote, what makes you think we don't have these policies in place because we certainly do. A quick browse through our ports of call forums should tell you that we've recognized the need for policies and procedures regarding authenticity of recommendations. We've been in business for over 14 years and aren't new to this whole "online sharing of information" gig.

 

What we don't and won't do is give away all our secrets with regard to detecting fake reviews, or any other 'style' of disingenuous posting. We also won't create a policy that we cannot stand behind and react to with utmost confidence that we are taking the correct action. The truth of the matter is the more "policies" we write and put in place merely gives those more ammunition for attempting to work their way around them. A huge part of our day is devoted to this, let me assure you.

 

If that makes you feel more confident about posting here, great. If you've determined that for whatever reason, you may have to find another place for your cruise info -- well, we'll miss you but do believe it is a huge internet and there is room for cruise sites of all sizes. The decision has always been up to the individual.

 

I'm going to wrap up this discussion. We've posted an official response for all to see. We've obtained an official response from Royal Caribbean. We are requesting that if you want additional information from Royal Caribbean that you contact them directly.

 

One item I will mention is that our community guidelines are always in effect; they apply to every person and group on these forums. No matter what side you were on with regard to this issue, you can be assured that we will deal with any repercussions swiftly and fairly. What this means is we will not allow posts that denigrate someone's opinions because they may be a Royal Champion (or any group), and we won't allow any attacks on those who have been vocal about their dislike of this program. For swifter response, please use the ALERT feature located in the upper right hand corner of any posting. Also, you can also write me directly at community@cruisecritic.com.

 

We're going to get back to the main purpose of these boards; to share cruising knowledge with one another.

 

We thank those of you who were civil in their discussion of this issue and appreciate the time many of you have taken in offering up suggestions and ideas to keep our community the best resource for cruise information.

 

We will be closing these thread shortly; it will remain "live" for all to read.

 

If you have questions/comments/concerns regarding the management of our forums, please address them to us via email.

 

PS: For issues of "clarity" when I use the word YOU, I mean *everyone* and not any one particular person.

[setsail]

setsail,

 

I just burst out laughing at your sig line "If you are reading this to find out how many cruises I have,what level I am, or If I am a Royal Commando you are out of luck,as I started many years ago and have lost count. Even C&A has trouble keeping up."

That is hysterical and I feel the same way!!! Way to go! :) :)

 

I like yours also, go for the dog!

[Schplinky]

Laura.

 

Thank you for your moderation.

[FloridaPalms]

Like many others on CC, I've been following this thread for days and have read all 1943 previous posts, including excellent posts on both sides. I've also read the original thread where the first CCers were chosen to go on the Liberty pre-inugural and can see from it the beginnings of the great divide.

 

I will continue to judge all posters (RCers, non-RCers and Wannabe RCers) on how helpful I feel they have (or have not) been. I cannot, and will not, judge them on what private agenda they may (or may not) have - for as hazence said in post #1685, "How presumptious and how ridiculous for anyone to presume without knowing WHO WE ARE or our values or our individual achievements...that some special status on an Internet opinion Board would drive ANYTHING we might do."

 

While hazence, in just one of her many intelligent & thought provoking posts (IMHO), meant this as a defense against claims of jealousy by non-RCers objecting to a viral marketing program, it made me think that RCers could have made this statement as well. Especially when you consider that the original RCers were CCers long before they were RCers. Yet, because of RCI's viral marketing program, it has been presumed that some really helpful (and prolific) posters on both sides, of whom the majority of us do not know WHO THEY REALLY ARE or their values or their individual achievements, are being driven to do something they might not otherwise do. And, especially in the case of "wannabes" and those secretly hoping for an Oasis pre-inugural invite, who can say RCI's viral marketing program hasn't been a driving force for some? In turn, that has led to a disintergration of the value and perceived unbiasness of this board.

 

 

And that is the inherent and, IMHO, insidious problem of the association of or infection by a viral marketing program on a board such as this. It has created a division where none should be. In moving to heal that divide, Cruise Critic Admin replaced their initial sticky post #1 yesterday with a new post #1 stating their new position that "At this time, we have decided that it is not in Cruise Critic’s best interest going forward to contact members on behalf of Royal Caribbean or any other cruise line."

 

CC used to be a happy place with relatively tranquil seas, where one could come to dream, to plan, to talk about cruising.

 

Somehow, some way, we need to clean this board of the disillusionment that many, on both sides, are still feeling and move on. I'm hoping that CC Admin's new position will help clean this up.

 

And, maybe, if it can bring a little happiness back into this board, this will help too -

 

Screen cleaner please!

 

Here ya go!

 

[Catnip]

I like yours also, go for the dog!

 

 

LOL!!!!!! We opted for cats, instead!!!!!! :D :D :D

[Fury1995]

Thank you Laura....

 

Opinions are opinions..

 

Sometimes the minority can be louder than the majority in discussions and vice versa but it doesn't necessarily mean one is right or one is wrong...

[5waldos]

I also interpreted the following to suggest that you knew a fair amount about the program- and NOT that it was just an invite to a sailing

 

I'd like to thank Cecilia for attempting to calm down the Royal Caribbean forum. Now, since I was aware of this program from the very beginning and somewhat involved, I will happy to share what I know to be the facts:

 

1. I was contacted by Royal Caribbean in early 2007 and was asked to send them emails of certain members who they were interested in contacting. Of course, since I will NOT share your email addresses, they had no choice but to ask me to contact these members with the information about this program. was told that Buzz Metrics, a subsidiary of Neilsen Ratings System, had earmarked about 50 people on the internet whose existing participating had been positive and enthusiastic about their cruises on Royal Caribbean. Of the 50, 40 were Cruise Critic members which makes sense since our community is so large.

You knew that a marketing firm, Buzz Metrics, was involved

 

2. I have to tell you I was VERY surprised at some of the posters on the listing; most of them were known to me. Some had many posts, some did not. But, most importantly I thought that the majority of them were NOT what I would call cheerleaders. As a matter of fact, I've found most of their posts before, and still, to be very HONEST, and sometimes downright critical, of the cruise line. This is only my opinion.

Why would you have expected only cheerleaders?

 

3. Most of those on the listing heard nothing for months. Finally, an invitation was sent to with an invitation to ONE of two pre-inaugural sailings on Liberty of the Seas. You had a choice of either Miami or New York and you had to pay your own way to get there. It is important to keep in mind that on these sailings were many travel agents, vendor firms and of course the media. The cruise line hosted all of these groups, including the 30 or so who could make it.

How is it that you know all these details? The company must have been keeping you informed of their plans and the progress

 

4. Cruise lines hosting various groups on board pre-inaugural sailings is pretty standard nowadays. They do this in the hopes that they will enjoy themselves and return and convince their friends, family and clients to sail with them.

I believe it was stated by RCCL that it was the first time that non-industry people had been invited to a pre-inaugural sailing

 

5. I was on board the Liberty of the Seas pre-inaugural in NYC. I was very happy to meet those Cruise Critic members who were on board, as well as posters from other websites and bloggers and website creators. It was on board that the name "Royal Champions" was announced to all. I won't say we didn't have a wonderflul time; obviously the ship was gorgeous -- we did enjoy the 2 day sailing. There were many seminars and meetings on board to attend if so inclined; this is standard on any pre-iinaugural.

And a Thank You cocktail party for the RC- although it is unclear what they were being thanked for, especially since you note that at least some were often critical of the line

 

6. Many months went by. No communication to any of the Royal Champions came from RCI. All was quiet until RCI invited those in the NY area to attend an event where they would announce some of the neighborhoods on Oasis of the Seas. Not many of the RC's went, about 10 I'd say; I did attend as did our Managing Editor -- we brought 'Bennie the Bear' with us. I cannot remember the exact date but it was held at the Nokia theatre.

Again- how is it that you have these details unless you were continuing to be involved

 

7. After the Nokia event -- nothing. No communications, no invites, no promises of anything at all. As a matter of fact, many would write to me and ask "is the program still running?". We really had no info to share.

Ditto about involvement, and apparently the RC felt you were a point of contact

 

8. About three months ago RCI asked for us to contact an additional group of members. No one heard anything for months until they were asked to verify their contact info. Then, again, nothing.

 

That's the entire story as I know it.

 

Some may also ask: why does Cruise Critic allow this? Essentially, you are all anonymous to us. The phenomena behind social media and user generated reviews is fascinating to us.

Apparently so

 

I left out several paragraphs of suggestions and warnings

Laura

 

I think the above suggests that in fact you knew a great deal about the program and followed it very carefully. For what purpose and to what end I am not sure. But clearly you knew more than just that some people were being invited to a cruise.

[FL_Cruiser64]

Oliver, we don't have a list, at least not an officially compiled one. Do you believe me? (Disclaimer: Oliver and I have sailed together, so we actually are personally acquainted, so if he doesn't believe me, he's in trouble:p).

 

Of course I believe you. Just the basic fact that people have to post publicly if a certain e-mail is legit or not shows that at least the majority does not have a list of RCs. :)

 

That begs the question who among the RCs has a list and why? We have established two different levels already: the members, the 'charter' members..maybe there is a third level: a 'chartered charter member' :D

 

..a friend picks a friend picks a friends...yeah, I call that effective marketing. ;)

 

Then again, I should have opposed you....I like getting in trouble. :D