Difference between Service charge & Gratuities

[SJ]

It never ceases to amaze me that this argument comes up over and over again. If you don't like to tip, that is your business, BUT as the father of a waitress who makes $2.13 per hour plus tips, the tips are the difference between earning $10 for a shift or $50. And yes, she has to share her tips with the host, the bussers, and bar staff. It is an American custom and you are not going to single-handedly change that system. Please stay at home and let those who are going to tip use the table.

 

Now on a cruise ship, when your book your cabin and read the contract it states that there is a $12 daily service charge. If you have a problem with that, then don't book the friggin' cruise. Sheesh. It IS that simple. Go to McDonalds or Burger King, and to go Disneyland on vacation, where you won't have to be bothered with tipping. If you have a problem with how the DSC is disbursed, then don't book the cruise with that line and go elsewhere. No one is forcing these folks to work for NCL, so they must be being compensated enough that they come back contract after contract, and if not, they move on. It is NCL's business how they pay and copensate their employees IAW applicable laws and the contract with their employees. I haven't seen a mutiny yet, nor have heard of a strike.

 

Like I said, this is not about the amount of the DSC. I don't have a problem paying it. I just think it shouldn't be distributed to the maitre'd because it takes away from the people who really makes nothing on the ship unlike the maitre'd. Even at .75/day from the entire ship, it is a lot more than a cabin steward get in tips from his cabins. At .75/day for 2000 passengers on a 7 day cruise which is a very conservative estimate equals $2007.75. That's over $8,000-$10,000 in tips a month. The Maitre'd can be tipped at passengers' discretion for extra services provided beyond his normal duties. I find some of them quite phony with their hand out on the last night but never spoke to us before that. I shouldn't have to tip $10 for the week for the two of us for such a person.

 

Please don't confuse my arguments...

[G-Funk]

It never ceases to amaze me that this argument comes up over and over again. If you don't like to tip, that is your business, BUT as the father of a waitress who makes $2.13 per hour plus tips, the tips are the difference between earning $10 for a shift or $50. And yes, she has to share her tips with the host, the bussers, and bar staff. It is an American custom and you are not going to single-handedly change that system. Please stay at home and let those who are going to tip use the table.

 

Now on a cruise ship, when your book your cabin and read the contract it states that there is a $12 daily service charge. If you have a problem with that, then don't book the friggin' cruise. Sheesh. It IS that simple. Go to McDonalds or Burger King, and to go Disneyland on vacation, where you won't have to be bothered with tipping. If you have a problem with how the DSC is disbursed, then don't book the cruise with that line and go elsewhere. No one is forcing these folks to work for NCL, so they must be being compensated enough that they come back contract after contract, and if not, they move on. It is NCL's business how they pay and copensate their employees IAW applicable laws and the contract with their employees. I haven't seen a mutiny yet, nor have heard of a strike.

 

Not to be obtuse, but the contract states exactly:

 

" . . . The charge , which is automatically added to your onboard account and subject to adjustment at your discretion . . ."

 

Based on that, I think even people that have a problem with the way the current tipping system works are still allowed to cruise.

[hawaiilvr]

 

Based on that, I think even people that have a problem with the way the current tipping system works are still allowed to cruise.

 

:rolleyes:

 

You are also allowed to leave your local restaurant without tipping the waiter/waitress, as well, I guess. That doesn't make it right, but feel free to do what you wish.

 

There are many people behind the scenes who benefit from the DSC. People beyond your room steward and waiters, and they share in that DSC. If you want to run around with little white envelopes to make sure your room steward is rewarded, as well as the waiters, that's great, just make sure you find the person washing the sheets, the cooks, the bussers, and make sure they are rewarded as well. If you don't want to tip the Maitre 'd, then I guess that can be your hill to die on. I personally am on vacation on a ship and don't want to have to pick my battles. Maybe that handsome pay helps the waiters focus on doing a good job so they can get promoted and earn the big bucks.

[iheartbda]

LOL I just copied it from a couple of days ago with a slightly expanded response...you note I credit Bermuda :)

Missed that.:o

 

I had a big long response to the others but it got "stuck" somewhere and ultimately disappeared but no big deal since it falls on deaf ears anyway,:p

 

So, we'll continue to do what we always do, pay the DSC (tips by another name ;)) and give extra (in cash which they may keep) to those we feel derserving....a simple process all around.

[Ladder55]

It never ceases to amaze me that this argument comes up over and over again. If you don't like to tip, that is your business, BUT as the father of a waitress who makes $2.13 per hour plus tips, the tips are the difference between earning $10 for a shift or $50. And yes, she has to share her tips with the host, the bussers, and bar staff. It is an American custom and you are not going to single-handedly change that system. Please stay at home and let those who are going to tip use the table.

 

Now on a cruise ship, when your book your cabin and read the contract it states that there is a $12 daily service charge. If you have a problem with that, then don't book the friggin' cruise. Sheesh. It IS that simple. Go to McDonalds or Burger King, and to go Disneyland on vacation, where you won't have to be bothered with tipping. If you have a problem with how the DSC is disbursed, then don't book the cruise with that line and go elsewhere. No one is forcing these folks to work for NCL, so they must be being compensated enough that they come back contract after contract, and if not, they move on. It is NCL's business how they pay and copensate their employees IAW applicable laws and the contract with their employees. I haven't seen a mutiny yet, nor have heard of a strike.

 

most of them do not have a choice they need the job and the money, they send the money to their families,they donot question a thing in fearof losing the job

 

for those that do have a choice...heres an idea=

get a job that pays better, dont rely on tips to pay the bills, stop whinning

[hawaiilvr]

most of them do not have a choice they need the job and the money, they send the money to their families,they donot question a thing in fearof losing the job

 

for those that do have a choice...heres an idea=

get a job that pays better, dont rely on tips to pay the bills, stop whinning

 

So do you want to hire my HS aged daughter to be a computer programmer or a surgeon? Not everyone starts at the top of the food chain like you must have.

 

Again, feel free to tip who you want. After all, it's the principle, right?

[BIG_Steve]

I may not like it, but it is what it is.

 

Bingo. Pay the money and forget it. Or choose a different product (cruiseline.)

 

We do this all the time at businesses around the towns we live in, never thinking twice about it. I have to laugh how many times this tipping/dsc came up just this week.

[Don Haynes]

Its amazing. Those who have never worked for tips are opposed to those who do work for tips, always with their nose so high thinking why should we pay employees salaries, it should be up to employers. Unfortunately, our labor laws do allow for tipping and paying employees less than minimum wage. If you don't want to tip, please work hard to change the labor laws.

 

And as far as cruise ships are concerned, most of the crew aren't even Americans, and don't have American labor laws to protect them. Trying to fit American labor laws and compensation on international crew ships don't work, or will never work.

[SJ]

There are a lot of things we can't change about different cruiselines or loyalty programs or price drops, that does not mean we can't discuss it on these boards.

 

I don't usually get involve in these topics as some people can get nasty because they have a difference in opinion. But I feel strongly about Officers of the ship sharing the DSC with non-officers of the crew. I rather see DSC goes to the people who cleans my towels and bedding and other crew who I don't even see at all. I see my maitre'd everyday, I can hand him cash easily should he deserves it, he does not need to be included in the DSC. It's just another case of the rich getting more and the poor have to settle for the leftovers.

 

Changing American labor laws would not help the crew, the ships are not registered American. Plus, would any crew member want to pay our complicated taxes? Believe it or not, just because Americans don't want these jobs, does not mean they are not coveted by the international crew. After all, they have no room and board expenses, they keep everything they make and the dollar is incredibly strong in their countries. They provide incredible service partly due to their work ethics and because there are plenty of people waiting for their jobs.

[Don Haynes]

I wouldn't consider the Maidre D an officer of any ship, they are just in charge of the dinning room staff, more like a supervisor than a ship's officer. No more important than the chief bellhop at any hotel.

[SJ]

I could be wrong, but when I see him in that white uniform like the other officers with at least one stripe on his shoulders I consider him an officer. He is an officer in charge of food and beverage. I think he is very important part of the ship. Imagine your dining experience if he didn't do his job well.

[Don Haynes]

And I have seen chief bell hops wear uniforms as well, but I don't consider them part of the office staff, captain, executive officer, hotel director, chief engineer, purser, or assistant hotel director, etc. Even with traditional dining, one is expected to tip the Maidre D. Every classy restaurant throughout America the Maidre D expects a tip.

[CruisnGram]

I don't usually get involve in these topics as some people can get nasty because they have a difference in opinion. But I feel strongly about Officers of the ship sharing the DSC with non-officers of the crew. I rather see DSC goes to the people who cleans my towels and bedding and other crew who I don't even see at all. I see my maitre'd everyday, I can hand him cash easily should he deserves it, he does not need to be included in the DSC. It's just another case of the rich getting more and the poor have to settle for the leftovers.

 

Don't you see the waiters everyday too? Do you know how much a maitre'd gets paid? I don't, that's why I'm asking.

 

 

I could be wrong, but when I see him in that white uniform like the other officers with at least one stripe on his shoulders I consider him an officer. He is an officer in charge of food and beverage. I think he is very important part of the ship. Imagine your dining experience if he didn't do his job well.

 

I could be wrong but I do not think that the maitre'd is an officer. And he's definitely not the food and beverage manager. That job is DEFINITELY way up the chain of command and is not included in the DSC. As othes have said, I believe that the maitre'd is nothing more then a waiter who worked hard and worked his way up. He's part of the dining room staff all of whom share in the DSC. That pretty uniform is just to make him look good. :)

 

CG

[sjbdtz]

I'm addressing this to you directly, as you seem to be the only person on the board unable to get your head around this:

 

 

- crew on the NCL ships (and all the other lines) are on Contract. The typical contract runs 9 months.

 

 

This means they are NOT actually employees, and are not subject to benefits (health, vacation, etc.)

 

This is the reason why the service charge is not included in the cruise fare.

 

There are other benefits to not including it (such as not paying TA commission on it), and having it be out in the open so that customers understand they don't have to SUPPLEMENTAL tip.....but I'd be willing to bet that the prime reason for it is to maintain the contractor - contractee relationship.

[Ladder55]

from wiki

the maître d' (short for maître d'hôtel, literally "master of the hotel") in a suitably staffed restaurant or hotel is the person in charge of assigning customers to tables in the establishment and dividing the dining area into areas of responsibility for the various servers on duty. He or she may also be the person who receives and records reservations for dining, as well as dealing with any customer complaints. It is also their duty to make sure that all the servers are completing their tasks in an efficient manner. In small restaurants, the post is also known as the headwaiter or host.

[Ladder55]

I'm addressing this to you directly, as you seem to be the only person on the board unable to get your head around this:

 

 

- crew on the NCL ships (and all the other lines) are on Contract. The typical contract runs 9 months.

 

 

This means they are NOT actually employees, and are not subject to benefits (health, vacation, etc.)

 

This is the reason why the service charge is not included in the cruise fare.

 

There are other benefits to not including it (such as not paying TA commission on it), and having it be out in the open so that customers understand they don't have to SUPPLEMENTAL tip.....but I'd be willing to bet that the prime reason for it is to maintain the contractor - contractee relationship.

 

so they get no health benefits or paid leave?

[smeyer418]

so they get no health benefits or paid leave?

only the NCLA crew get paid leave. All get some health care benefits on the ship. Whether they get health benefits at home depends on whether their country has national health care(most modern industrial countries do).

[Ladder55]

only the NCLA crew get paid leave. All get some health care benefits on the ship. Whether they get health benefits at home depends on whether their country has national health care(most modern industrial countries do).

Ok so they get taken care of by the ships docter,t hat makes sense

so some of the dsc goes towards these programs,and thats good, they get taken care of and like a previous poster said, they have no expenses really either so they are probly making decent take home pay

[newmexicoNita]

Ok so they get taken care of by the ships docter,t hat makes sense

so some of the dsc goes towards these programs,and thats good, they get taken care of and like a previous poster said, they have no expenses really either so they are probly making decent take home pay

 

It is a decent take home pay considering the countries most of them come from and only decent with the service charge/tips being added. Actually for many of them it is a very good pay..They certainly deserve it as they work hard and long hours.

 

Nita

[Ladder55]

It is a decent take home pay considering the countries most of them come from and only decent with the service charge/tips being added. Actually for many of them it is a very good pay..They certainly deserve it as they work hard and long hours.

 

Nita

 

yes they do work long and hard, if they had to abide by our countrys employment laws, the cruise lines would not be able to work the staff as hard as they do

[smeyer418]

yes they do work long and hard, if they had to abide by our countrys employment laws, the cruise lines would not be able to work the staff as hard as they do

really? you don't work hard?

[Ladder55]

really? you don't work hard?

 

what? what did this response mean, my response was sympathatic for the staff, what are you saying, you lost me

and yes I work hard, but our government contols the extent to which my employer can "work me" therefore protecting me to a certain degree, the staff and crew onboard has no protection, i wish they did.

[Why Knot Me]

I could be wrong, but when I see him in that white uniform like the other officers with at least one stripe on his shoulders I consider him an officer. He is an officer in charge of food and beverage. I think he is very important part of the ship. Imagine your dining experience if he didn't do his job well.

 

The Maitre D is not an officer. And, the Restaurant Manager is in charge of food and beverage, not the Maitre D.

[AllAboard]

Ok, just playing devil's advocate here....this is aimed more at those who have been cruising for a long time, as I have. Have you noticed a change in the level of service over the years, particularly since many of the cruise lines are now requesting/requiring that gratuities/service charges are automatically added?

[garycarla]

I am amazed about the comments about the Maitre'd.

 

does anyone here REALLY know how much, if any of the tip pool they get. Does anyone here REALLY know if they are salary, and if so, how much? Does anyone really know what their responsiblities are? Keep in mind that job and pay structures for a foreign flagged ship can be considerably different than what you might have in your business here in the US.

 

Like - how many of you get room and meals as part of your pay structure?

 

Why people want to try to figure all this out and make a big deal of it is just above my logic.

 

NCL charges $12 a day as part of their deal. That is just the way it is.