Missing my Holland America experience - Where do I find it?

[kryos]

At any rate, my question is - is there a moderately priced cruise line that offers these amenities anymore? We've ONLY been on Holland America so far.

Most of the luxury and deluxe cruise lines all have open seating dining, though I would imagine the food/service is a bit more personal, since the ships are usually smaller. But then you lose with other things ... many of the older ships used by Oceania don't have as many balcony cabins as the newer/larger ships do. If that's important to you, it could be a dealbreaker since balcony cabins will be pricey on those ships due to their scarcity.

 

But, as for some of the things you mention that are gone ... all I can say is that they had them on my cruise. There were people not only cleaning the windows, but replacing them in the Ocean Bar and casino, and I assume the Crow's Nest too.

 

As for dinner and shows, they generally had shows at 8:00 and 10:00 p.m., easy to slot in after dinner almost no matter what time you eat.

 

And, yes, they had the chime guy ... I saw him several times. Though, I can understand that tradition slowly going away now that you can have people eating at pretty much any time with the AYWD.

 

I noticed no difference in the pillow chocolates. They were the same ones I've always gotten ... but then I stay in the "cheap seats." Maybe it was different in the more elaborate accommodations? The only thing in the way of chocolate that I missed was that I noticed at the Chocolate Extravaganza that they no longer had chocolate-covered strawberries, something I really enjoyed in the past because for some reason I could eat the white chocolate-covered ones without getting blinding headaches.

 

Of course, we're gonna be seeing certain things disappearing over the years. But I have a feeling that just how much will be gone will depend upon the cruise itself. My last cruise was a 35-day Hawaii/South Pacific sailing on the Statendam. So, maybe they still had certain things that the seven-day Mexico cruise did away with long ago. It's all a matter of budget and bottom-line, I'm afraid. If a sailing is making a huge profit for the cruise line, such as perhaps a World Cruise, you're gonna see a lot more in the way of amenities on that sailing. That's because you are paying for them in the high prices those sailings carry. But when you get a seven-day Caribbean cruise for $600 per passenger, naturally you're gonna lose a lot of the experience of the old-style traditional cruising.

 

I guess it all depends on what you are willing to pay. If you want to pay top dollar for your sailing, then go on one of the deluxe cruise lines, such as Azamara or Oceania. If you really want to splurge, try Crystal or Regent. You'll almost surely find more of the experience you're looking for there, but then you'll have to pay for it.

 

Unfortunately, there is a downside to the decreasing prices on cruises ... and that is the decreasing amount of amenities you can enjoy on them.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

As for formal wear...I too like dressing up for it but we might have to face the facts that this is becoming a lost art in this day and age. Still we few who remain can go down in the battle with our finest on.:D

Our whole society is going more informal now, so the degree of formality on a cruise would have slowly gone down anyway. Also, the airlines instituting baggage charges accelerated the process. There are many people today, call them cheap if you want, call them practical if you prefer, who absolutely will not spend $60 or so in extra baggage charges each way in order to lug formal wear along for every member of the family. They'll just go to the dining room in the nicest things they do have, or won't bother to eat there at all.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

And if the much discussed show times are not well attended at 10 PM, then why are so many so passionate about it ?

I can easily believe that it is all the same PAX who "Prefer" the AYWD attending the 9 PM show.

I think the lack of attendance at the later show had nothing to do with what time HAL decided to have it. I think that people are just getting away from attending large production shows. Let's face it, many of these shows have been playing on HAL ships for many years running. HAL gets a lot of repeat passengers, and my guess is that many of them have already seen the shows numerous times and have no desire to see them again. Even the "fly on" performers ... many of them have been doing cruise ship shows for years ... the passengers have seen their act many times and have no desire to see it again.

 

I think HAL experimented with moving the late seating show to before the dinner hour, and I think that experiment pretty much failed. The early show is packed and the late one is somewhat sparsely attended. That was probably the case when the late show was moved up to before dinner too, and that's why HAL is slowly moving the shows back to their original times. Years ago there weren't as many options for evening entertainment as there are now. Pretty much it was dinner, a show and then perhaps a nightcap in one of the bars ... and then to bed. Today, there are so many other venues to choose from ... the casino, entertainment in the lounges, karoke, something special like a sock hop taking place in the Crow's Nest, the disco, something going on out on the Lido Deck ... you name it. The show is only one option today. There are many others.

 

HAL is now gonna be trying something different with their entertainment program ... something where they will have lesser performers in the cast and more "intimate" shows in place of the big "Vegas style" production shows ... sort of like caberat shows with like a four-person cast. They're remodeling their theatres on some ships ... I think they call this new concept "Showroom at Sea" ... to accommodate this. Maybe after the change takes place they will see more people attending the shows because they will probably be able to keep them reasonably fresh. After all, it's a lot less expensive to change a small show than it is to roll out a new multi-million dollar production every year. But as long as they offer the same production shows running three or more years ... on a cruise line that gets tons of repeat passengers on every cruise ... nothing is gonna increase the attendance at the late show because most folks would probably rather go to bed or to the casino or to a lounge than watching the same old thing for the fifth or sixth time.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[margaritawoman]

I agree with everything HALFans said. We were on the Zuiderdam to Alaska in 2006. It was one of the best cruises (23 cruises) we had ever been on. It was our first HAL cruise. We have cruised most of the mainstream lines but until this cruise Princess was our fave. We enjoyed the Zuiderdam so much we booked the Noordam for our 10/2008 cruise. This was a 10 day cruise out of Ft Lauderdale. When DH & I cruise in the caribbean we only do 10 day. It usually is a better cruise. This cruise from start to finish was like being on a different cruise line than the cruise on the Zuiderdam. The service was not up to par, the dining experience was not good. We had traditional at 8:00, most nights the service was so slow we didn't leave the dining room until almost 10:30. The food IMHO was no where near the quality of the food on the Zuiderdam in 2006. I get what everyone is saying about cut backs. We choose a cruise vacation for all the reasons that HALFans was looking forward to in his cruise, but didn't get. We are really thinking that cruising may have changed so much that it is just not what we are looking for in a vacation anymore. I use to think it was the best vacation you could get for the money. I am not so sure anymore. That being said we have 2 cruises coming up this year. We are going to Alaska in June (Princess) and Transatlantic in October (new Carnival Ship). If these meet our expections we will keep cruising, if not we will be looking at putting our dollars somewhere else. We all need to let the cruise lines know just how we feel and not let the service and food quality slide because of the economy. We will only get what we demand and we can do this by not spending our $$ on cruising, if it is not the experience it should be.

[caribbeanboy]

Just back from the Eurodam last week and found the food very good.

[hammybee]

 

We all need to let the cruise lines know just how we feel and not let the service and food quality slide because of the economy. We will only get what we demand and we can do this by not spending our $$ on cruising, if it is not the experience it should be.

 

I continue to find cruising a tremendous value compared to a comparable shore side vacation. It's not the same experience it once was but then again I am paying 60%+ less than when I first started cruising when adjusted for relative value of the USD, over time. How exactly does a business charge less and maintain service levels without indentured servants?

 

The in cabin experience is better than it ever was and there are more out of cabin options that I can choose or not/pay for or not.

 

I have the choice to pay what I used to, adjusted for inflation, and sail with a true luxury cruise line. But darn, I cannot afford to do so and frankly, mass market cruising suits me better.

[margaritawoman]

Hammybee, it is certianly your right to feel that cruising is a great value. At one time as I stated I felt that way also. I am paying more now for my cruises that I did 20 years ago. If you are booking inside or oceanview you can get a good deal. The balconys and suites are not that cheap to me??? I was just giving my opinon and experience and agreeing with the the person who started the post. I quess I'm saying its not the experience it once was to "me". The most noticeable changes are in the dining room. It is one of the main reasons we love to cruise. The dining experience was like no other, now it is becoming like going to any restaurant. I can get that anywhere. If the cruise lines can fill up their ships with people who prefer this type of dining so be it. What I was saying is, it probably won't be me. I have talked to many people that feel the same way I do. On the Noordam at the cruisecritic meet and greet we meet many people who had the same thoughts we did. I would rather keep the standards high and pay alittle more that let the whole experience decline. I was saying "if" you feel this way speak up. This is just MHO

[CowPrincess]

I would rather keep the standards high and pay alittle more that let the whole experience decline. This is just MHO

 

Unfortunately, in current economic conditions, and with most fleets overbuilt, it is not economically viable to expect everyone to be prepared to pay a "little more". I'd happily pay for some "upgrades" but then, what's important to me may not be important to you.

 

The cruiselines need their ships full, and the most reliable way of doing that is to cut prices. When they get first time cruisers onboard, those people have NO idea how cruising has changed in 10 or 20 years, and many first time cruisers are converted to cruising, growing the customer base for the cruise line.

 

I can say with a fair degree of certainty that if the food on DH & my next cruise is worse than on our May/08 cruise, and if the passenger complement is as boorish as on our Nov/08 cruise, we will be trying other vacation options to see if we can find a "fit" that is as good as we once considered cruising to be.

[Copper10-8]

Hey, this is what them 'new' pillow chocolates on Ryndam look like that Hal Fans has been talking about. We had them also two weeks prior. They didn't come in Milk:(

[CowPrincess]

Oooooh, DARK chocolate ..... yippeeeee!!!

[HALFans]

Hey, this is what them 'new' pillow chocolates on Ryndam look like that Hal Fans has been talking about. We had them also two weeks prior. They didn't come in Milk:(

 

Yep, that's the chocolaty beasties!

 

BTW John, what did you do to the Ryndam blower motor that pressurizes the ship? The Hotel Manager said that it destroyed itself on your cruise. (More on that in my review if I ever finish writing it.)

[Bobcat Pete]

The cruiselines need their ships full, and the most reliable way of doing that is to cut prices. ...

... and if the passenger complement is as boorish as on our Nov/08 cruise, we will be trying other vacation options to see if we can find a "fit" that is as good as we once considered cruising to be.

 

Holland and Celebrity are taking different approaches on this. Holland says it will drop prices until a ship fills. Celebrity says it will drop to a point, but does not want to fill a ship at the risk of diminishing the trademark Celebrity experience. Celebrity seems to think that protecting the brand is more important in the long run than protecting the short-term bottom line.

[May4]

It just goes to show you how we are all delightfully and wonderfully different. I have learned something new, that dark chocolate is available instead of the pillow chocolates I've been given so far.

 

I know what you mean about missing the little gold stamped ones if that's what you expected though. I'll trade with you if we have the chance. Dark chocolate rules in my world.

 

 

Welcome back. May I ask what eel tastes like? Does it taste like chicken?

[CowPrincess]

Celebrity seems to think that protecting the brand is more important in the long run than protecting the short-term bottom line.

 

That's interesting! I guess time will tell whether that strategy enables them to have a brand to protect or not.

 

Holland says it will drop prices until a ship fills.

 

Where did you get this info? I've often wondered if there IS a specific acknowledged, more or less public, decision on this.....

[hammybee]

 

Hammybee, it is certianly your right to feel that cruising is a great value. At one time as I stated I felt that way also. I am paying more now for my cruises that I did 20 years ago. If you are booking inside or oceanview you can get a good deal. The balconys and suites are not that cheap to me???

 

I sail in all cabin categories on most mass market cruise lines. The best values are indeed in the inside, outside and entry level balcony classes.

 

The Suites are less than they used to be but not nearly to the extent of the majority of cabins which are also the lesser grade cabins. Those who sail in the cheap seats now days tend to get a better out of cabin experience for their money. Those who sail in Suites get a better in cabin experience than they once did.

 

While I am a happy camper with food, I know that it's subjective. If food was a make it or break it for me, I would probably opt out of mass market completely and go more upscale. There are so many almost "too good to be true" values out there, right now.

[Copper10-8]

Yep, that's the chocolaty beasties!

 

BTW John, what did you do to the Ryndam blower motor that pressurizes the ship? The Hotel Manager said that it destroyed itself on your cruise. (More on that in my review if I ever finish writing it.)

 

I had nada to do with it but I have to admit I was wondering why those yellow oxygen masks dropped from compartments over our heads one night while in the Ocean Bar! That explains it! Maybe Capt. Smit took Ryndam above 10,000 feet when coming out of Loreto, BCS in order to do some 'scenic' cruising of the Sierra de la Gigante mountain range

[kryos]

I would rather keep the standards high and pay alittle more that let the whole experience decline. I was saying "if" you feel this way speak up. This is just MHO

Then I think you would probably really enjoy a deluxe cruise line sailing (say, Azamara or Oceania) or perhaps even one of the luxury lines (like Regent or Silverseas). I think you'll get a lot more of what you are looking for there ... better food, better and more attentive service, nicer amenities, etc.

 

I just tend to think a mass market line (and don't let anyone kid you ... HAL, at least on certain ships/certain sailings ... is mass market) has had to let a lot of the little service distinctions go by the wayside. No choice. They have a budget that has to be adhered to. If they didn't adhere to it, they would eventually go broke and not be able to offer anyone cruises of any type.

 

So, for those people who really don't like what they are seeing as a decline in service and amenities on HAL, there are other lines where those things are still very much alive and well. But for a lot of people, there is simply no choice. They want to cruise and perhaps they are on tight budgets. So, they have to make do with those things HAL can still afford to give, and make allowances for those things they can't.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[innlady1]

 

Oh my, pipedreams...that is priceless. No wonder I, for one, look forward to each and every one of your posts! :D

[HALFans]

One thing I feel I have to interject here... I thought that over all the service was still very good to exceptional.

 

By the second day many of the crew were saying 'Hello Mr. Alan' and I really didn't remember meeting many them for more than a moment or two. This is especially impressive to me as the name on my ship's ID card IS NOT Alan due to U.S. regulations.

 

I felt that the crew worked their hearts out trying to do their very best in the guidelines they are given (and left the largest tips I ever have to show my appreciation).

 

I will be pleased to find this on another cruise line, but honestly don't expect (or demand) such a high degree of personalized attention.

 

Not having cruised with any lines other than Holland America yet, I find it hard to believe that you'll find this kind of loving attention on other 'Mass Market' lines and suspect Holland America is a cut above the rest here... but I have no experience yet to make that more than an assumption.

[Sleepladypalmdesert]

1. The chimes still are alive and well on the Zaandam. They are kitchy and I love the naughty Yum Yum man playing Jingle Bells to call us all to dinner.

 

2. What do they use for eyes on those towel animals without the proper chocolates that are round and well eye like? Those square chocolates, I would gobble them up for sure, are just too square for the adorable eyes that we need on our towel dogs, monkeys, elephants....and on and on.

 

Other than that.....a bad day on a HAL cruise ship is sure as heck better than any day at work.

[Copper10-8]

1..................

2. What do they use for eyes on those towel animals without the proper chocolates that are round and well eye like? Those square chocolates, I would gobble them up for sure, are just too square for the adorable eyes that we need on our towel dogs, monkeys, elephants....and on and on................

 

They've been using little black paper 'eyes' for the small farm animals

[hammybee]

Sorry for the OT, just wanted to acknowlege Copper's new avatar with his lovely child bride. You both look quite spiff, there, " lubly cupel".

[Copper10-8]

Sorry for the OT, just wanted to acknowlege Copper's new avatar with his lovely child bride. You both look quite spiff, there, " lubly cupel".

 

Thank you Ma'am! If I had a pineapple, I would proudly wear it on the noggin' That's a pretty elite group, you know;)

[mudscraper]

Sorry for the OT, just wanted to acknowlege Copper's new avatar with his lovely child bride. You both look quite spiff, there, " lubly cupel".

Berry Hangsum.

 

 

Rich

[hammybee]

Berry Hangsum.

 

 

Rich

 

Indeed. :D