Live onboard Zuiderdam -- FOD party request DENIED!!

[JeffCoud]

Hey folks...I'm writing live onboard the Holland America Line Zuiderdam. We are at sea today (having not been able to tender at Half Moon Cay).

 

This morning I wrote a nice note to the Cruise Director Pete (can't remember last name....) requesting a Friends of Dorothy party to be scheduled for tomorrow, which is also a sea day.

 

Pete was kind enough to leave me a voice mail letting me know that, per Holland America corporate policy in Seattle (my paraphrase) about 6-7 weeks ago they can no longer host and publicize such gatherings. He said he would be happy to put such a party together in a public room, but they could not put it in the daily bulletin!

 

At this moment....I am damn angry! Which I certainly don't need on my long awaited vacation. At great splurgy expense to myself I have booked as a solo in a Cat S suite....not exactly chump change! But this is absolutely my 2nd and last Holland America cruise unless this policy is changed asap! I can't believe in this day and age such a policy would exist. I think in today's program, for example, they've had meetings for people who like to play bridge, and for veterans. So what is the big deal -- we are but yet another group of people who have some common interests. Isn't the cruise line's job to bring people together for an enjoyable vacation experience?

 

I do want to be clear I do not harbor any ill will towards the CD...he was kind enough to respond to my note and was just relaying a corporate policy -- which he did not create -- to me.

 

In any case, Pete said I could call him at various times this evening, but really why bother? The whole point is to get a room and have it in the daily program....it's not like I have some magic ability to "spread this by word of mouth", using his words....to every gay and lesbian passenger on the ship. I don't want to go around making presumptions about people right?

 

Holland America -- wake up!!

 

Jeff Coudriet <-- taking my $$ back to Celebrity which has never turned down my request to host such a party.

[colo-cruiser]

Jeff,

I just returned from the voyage before the one that you are on right now. I had been on this ship in July of this year and the CD, Dane Bucher, was very agreeable to FOD get togethers. I was surprised to see that Dane was NOT the CD for the trip from last week. The word was that he was on a vacation and was due to come back to the Zuiderdam after two weeks.

I had heard that Peter Clingan was filling in for the CD for the next two weeks. His rookie-ness seemed to show. He actually seemed nervous about being in his role and seemed to overcompensate for many things. Nevertheless, he seemed to be a very considerate person. I kept checking the daily schedule but did not see the FOD as I had expected.

There was a reponse posted on the HAL board that suggested that you should ask to see the documentation regarding the HAL policy that disallows FOD meetings. I suspect that the policy is really up to the CD alone.

The entertainment cast has library duty in the mornings and afternoons. It might be worthwhile to catch them and chat with them to see what the real scoop is.

 

Still, I did have a great week. It's what you make of it and I think you are going to make it a great week despite some difficulties. Also, make sure you check out DJ Jay. REALLY cute. As is the fitness instructor.

 

Have a great week.

[thulewx]

I'm also of the opinion that it's up to the CD, and bet he can't or won't let you see documentation. Threaten to go higher if he refuses. I just hope and pray this isn't an indication of HAL becoming more "politically correct" in tune with the "new" moral values of our fearless "leader." :rolleyes:

[Rotterdam]

With situations like this - why not contact the head office in Seattle right away - you are onboard for a week or so - why waste time with people that have no real decision making power(in the long term).

 

If there is a corporate policy then corporate can verify it. You obviously do not trust the CD...skip it & get a message to HAL in Seattle.

 

Collectively, there are enough people that this affects & with the current social climate ...the Gay $$$$ are being noticed. But if a coproration can "deal" with a situation with the way you were treated onboard - there will be no change, no progression.

 

We all deserve a great vacation.....life is too short for this nonsense. Good luck.

[KruzNutty]

My partner and I saided the Zuiderdam in July 2004 and there was a FOD get together and it was published in the daily bulletin. Dane was the CD on that cruise also. I tend to believe this CD is lieing to you. I would question him on the policy and do it in person.

 

Beyond that, I understand that it makes you angry. I hope you can overlook it for now and enjoy the rest of your cruise.

 

Have fun!

[bepsf]

As I posted on the HAL thread - I'm sure that there IS NO "new policy".

 

 

This is probably the same CD who pulled a similar stunt on Westerdam earlier this year and doesn't expect anyone to call his bluff by contacting Seattle while still aboard ship.

[bdjam]

I agree with the others – given the amount of cash you’ve expended, I would be in contact with the corporate office…and I’d ask the CD for a name to talk to so he’d know you were on that path.

I hate to go back to politics, but it’s easy given the recent November events, to discount us. People think they have the majority behind them.

[wripro]

they may want to discount us but they sure dont want to discount our money. maybe if we all told them our bookings were conditional on having FOD parties aboard they would tally up the amount of potential lost revenue and change policy. also, as mentioned on the same topic on another board i think it's time to stop pussyfooting around by calling them FOD parties. we dont need to hide who we are any more. Lets call them what they are....gay/lesbian gettogethers. besides non americans have no idea what a friend of dorothy is.

[Mr. Boston]

I e-mailed Holland America on the day that I read this thread and requested written clarification of their policy regarding FOD gatherings. Following is the response that I got from them today:

 

Thank you for your recent correspondence regarding policies onboard Holland America Lines vessels. At this time, we are unable to make any requested additions to the daily schedule. This is not meant to be exclusive in any way in so much as it is a question of logistics. If we were to extend this courtesy to specific groups, it would be necessary for our onboard entertainment directors to provide the same courtesy to all other organizations. As we host gatherings of many sizes and types on almost all sailings, the ability to deliver a clear and helpful schedule, useful to all of our passengers, would be sorely compromised.

 

On chartered sailings, much of the scheduling and announcements are coordinated through the chartering agency. For your specific sailing, it is recommended that you contact the agency in charge to see if they are able to add the announcement.

 

Please feel free to contact us if we may be of additional assistance. We are confident our "Tradition of Excellence" will surpass your expectations. We look forward to welcoming you onboard in the near future.

 

[Tarheelbelle]

Jeff, I was on a 10 day Princess cruise last month and there was a Friends of Dorothy meeting every day onboard, listed in the Princess Patter. So not just Celebrity is enlightened. Also, on a brief Royal Caribbean cruise in October, there were Frinds of Dorothy meetings as well.

Sorry that you have had this disappointment on HAL.

[Tedson]

If we were to extend this courtesy to specific groups, it would be necessary for our onboard entertainment directors to provide the same courtesy to all other organizations. As we host gatherings of many sizes and types on almost all sailings, the ability to deliver a clear and helpful schedule, useful to all of our passengers, would be sorely compromised

 

Sounds fair, but if there is even ONE Friends of Bill W. meeting in the daily schedule, then I'd say this policy is not even worth the paper it's written on.

[Paulras]

IThis is not meant to be exclusive in any way in so much as it is a question of logistics. If we were to extend this courtesy to specific groups, it would be necessary for our onboard entertainment directors to provide the same courtesy to all other organizations.

[/size]

 

 

Sounds like the "we can't let you marry because then we'd have to let brothers and sisters or cats and dogs marry" argument.

[wripro]

the appropriate repsonse to that policy is that obviously they have staffs on board their ships who are not as competent as the staffs on other ships who are able to accomodate FOD meetings in the daily schedules on a day's notice. at any rate, this is just doubletalk for we don't want any FOD parties on our ships.

[Darrell6t]

On our 12 day Queen Mary 2 cruise in Spetember, there were three FOD meetings. And one of the staff told us that was routine.

[thulewx]

Using their logic, all these years they have been doing FOD parties, they were stressing their staff to the max, OR their current staffing is so incompetent, they can't place a simple note in a bulletin.

I think part of the problem is that HQ may think these FOD parties need to be seperately staffed and have extra bartenders. I've noted that some lines have announcements for groups like Lions, KofC, Shriners lumped into one group title "Service Organisations Meeting." Maybe if we requested announcements for "MEETINGS" instead of "Parties" they might be more amenable. Hey - we do a service - sort of ;) ...

[Rotterdam]

So this "Premium" cruise line that touts its "service" & can hold bingo, slot tournaments, surcharge in restaurants is unable to put one line in a daily newspaper promoting a meetig of like minded people.....hmmmm - sounds like the ice age to me -

 

Here's a few suggestions....using the Pinnacle Grill during off hours(us China & Crystal queens can appreciate that), or the aft pool before dinner(the b-suits would be faboo) or use the captains private rooms...

 

So HAL - get with the program(Mother Carnivore should get a policy on all lines). to put it simply - I won't spend my $$$$ on unjust corporate ignorance such as yours.

 

HAL was always hospitable(pre Carnivore) & a wonderful line to travel on...for some reason they seem to taking the Bush/Falwall School of Thought on this topic while trying to hide behind corporate mumbo jumbo that isn't worth the paper its written on!

 

Have a nice day!

[shipcafe]

So this "Premium" cruise line that touts its "service" & can hold bingo, slot tournaments, surcharge in restaurants is unable to put one line in a daily newspaper promoting a meetig of like minded people.....hmmmm - sounds like the ice age to me -

 

Here's a few suggestions....using the Pinnacle Grill during off hours(us China & Crystal queens can appreciate that), or the aft pool before dinner(the b-suits would be faboo) or use the captains private rooms...

 

So HAL - get with the program(Mother Carnivore should get a policy on all lines). to put it simply - I won't spend my $$$$ on unjust corporate ignorance such as yours.

 

HAL was always hospitable(pre Carnivore) & a wonderful line to travel on...for some reason they seem to taking the Bush/Falwall School of Thought on this topic while trying to hide behind corporate mumbo jumbo that isn't worth the paper its written on!

 

Have a nice day!

 

Actually, I've done a bit of scouting around on this issue in regard to HAL and even other lines. What I've discovered is that it has been policy for quite some time not to publish it but the policy has been skirted more times than not. Any time that it has been done in the past was technically an exception and it sounds like the CD whom you dealt with "went by the book" on this one.

[nautiboy]

Sounds fair, but if there is even ONE Friends of Bill W. meeting in the daily schedule, then I'd say this policy is not even worth the paper it's written on.

 

I hope you're just joking.

[Rotterdam]

If there really is a policy then it either needs to be amended or enforced.

This policy as it stands (on any line) is no more than a convenience for an employee to wave their magic wand at their whim.

 

Remember HAL promotes its service & desires of the "Guests" onboard.

Well - HAL there are obviously many Gay & Lesbian " Guest" that desire this gathering...you don't even have to pay for drinks - we've been very good at that for a very long time on HAL..or perhaps that should change(Hey Celebrity care for some more business?).

[bepsf]

Hmph--

 

Sounds like corporate B***-S*** to me...

I don't see how a FOD announcement is any more or less a guest service than a "Friends of Bill W." or Sunday Services announcement - none of these make money for the lines (in fact, Sunday Services costs the lines money as they usually bring the chaplain aboard gratis.)

If a passenger wishes to visit the Library, lets say - and the program states that the AA Meeting is held there every afternoon from 2-3 pm, you'd know to avoid the Library during that time, right? Same w/ FOD: the Red-state cotton-tops would know that something that they may or may not be interested in is going on in a particular lounge and to wander elsewhere.

Its also a proven fact that Gay men - in general - spend 3x as much on cocktails aboard cruises than str8 folks. If for no other reason than to pump up the bar sales, the lines should be THRILLED to have FOD gatherings...

But hey! If they want funerial lounges, those all important "Danny Boy" sing-alongs & the comatose nursing their warm beers till 10.30 leaving the poor pianist warbling to empty lounges for another hour and a half - it's their business...

[CruiseAholic]

I find it so very interesting that this topic makes some person so passionate, out of 63 cruises, I've gone to 2 FOD meetings and really didn't that much of them.

 

I enjoy mingling with all passengers and not being exclusive, plus those I have met were interested in either hook-ups (which I was not) or smoking pot (which I don't).

 

However, I don't understand why a cruise line would not wish to have them and would think that it is more the discretion of the cruise director rather than a corporate policy.

 

I am sure that I'm in the minority feeling as I do about the meetings, have met people online before cruises and met up for drinks, but didn't meet anyone at the FOD meetings I thought I'd be inerested in hanging with. Course, am sure we (my partner and I) are in the minority as we also voted for the current administration in the past election.

 

Have a great Holiday folks. We just booked Princess Cruise Tour 6S May 20 on the Dawn Princess.

[shipcafe]

I find it so very interesting that this topic makes some person so passionate, out of 63 cruises, I've gone to 2 FOD meetings and really didn't that much of them.

 

I enjoy mingling with all passengers and not being exclusive, plus those I have met were interested in either hook-ups (which I was not) or smoking pot (which I don't).

 

However, I don't understand why a cruise line would not wish to have them and would think that it is more the discretion of the cruise director rather than a corporate policy.

 

I am sure that I'm in the minority feeling as I do about the meetings, have met people online before cruises and met up for drinks, but didn't meet anyone at the FOD meetings I thought I'd be inerested in hanging with. Course, am sure we (my partner and I) are in the minority as we also voted for the current administration in the past election.

 

Have a great Holiday folks. We just booked Princess Cruise Tour 6S May 20 on the Dawn Princess.

 

CruiseAHolic : I'm actually with you on that one. On my past cruises, I've either not even noticed the meetings in the daily program or have just not made a point to go. I meet enough people just in my daily activities the way it is and/or find other things going on. I'm not saying that I'm against it but just would never get my feathers ruffled over not having one ..

 

Steve

[I Luv Crusin]

Sounds fair, but if there is even ONE Friends of Bill W. meeting in the daily schedule, then I'd say this policy is not even worth the paper it's written on.

I don't think there is any comparison between Friends of Bill W. and FOD! Friends of Bill are recovering addicts that need support of their peers.

[NorCalCruiseGuy]

That's not the point!!! If they say they can't accommodate a request for a group meeting, that should be ALL groups-- Bill W., Catholic Mass, etc. This is clearly a case of discrimination against gay and lesbian people and Holland America should be boycotted until they change their policy.

Yes, I am a proud resident of a BLUE STATE-- California.

[geoherb]

At this time' date=' we are unable to make any requested additions to the daily schedule. This is not meant to be exclusive in any way in so much as it is a question of logistics.[/quote']I can understand the policy as it is written. Adding extra activities on a day's notice would be difficult--making sure there wasn't a conflict with another event, getting the staff to cover it, etc.

 

Perhaps it should be like it was on our last Princess cruise. We asked an assistant CD if there was going to be a FOD party. He said one was already scheduled for the following afternoon--our first sea day.

 

Since HAL and the CDs know the itineraries already, they should have FOD parties already on the schedule every week instead of waiting until there is a request.

 

And I agree with Wripro in that it's time to stop the Friends of Dorothy code for gay gatherings. Same with Friends of Bill W for AA meetings. My local paper doesn't use cute euphemisms for AA meetings.