How will the Epic make money?

[Focusresumed]

All those extra costs already and the my impression that the Studios won’t sell well at all and NCL will have to let them go for the solo travelers at no extra charge (or a very small one), won’t help the ship be profitable.

 

But, the only way I would be interested in sailing the Epic actually is if they sell the studios at no extra charge for solo travelers. Otherwise, this ship has nothing to really appeal to me, I’ll keep sailing out Northeast on “older” ships. I’m 30, 5’3” and 112lbs and I feel from the ship renditions that I won’t fit in this crown of 20-something perfect bodies.

 

 

jp2001 - I tell you what jp2001....if 20-something perfect bodies is something that will stop you from taking a trip on the Epic, you just come hang out with my husband and I....lol....No matter how hard we try, we can't ever get our bodies to what society would declare as "PERFECT"....not to mention that I burn in the moonlight... ;-)

 

Dennis :D

[gtalum]

I suspect NCL has separated the pruchase price of the EPIC, which will be amortized over a couple of decades or more, from the penalties and deposits on the second F3 ship, for which I seem to rememebr they took a one-time charge-off last year. Now they have only to justify the actual purchase price of the EPIC.

[AWEST84532]

One thing I haven't noticed in this discussion is the fact the EPIC itinerary is not port intensive. That will result in more sea days and more cash flow.

 

The itineraries and different ports are what attracted my wife and me to NCL. The EPIC three port itenerary makes it less likely for us to book. But, there are all of the other ships and itineraries!

[Lumiere]

Exactly what i was thinking...i was looking at the Epic to book a cruise and thought that it was too much time at sea for where it went so i figured the plan was to make their money at sea with restaurant charges, gambling, bingo, shopping etc...I ended up booking the Spirit out of NOLA which i have sailed before and love...:cool:

[pcreek]

I love having the extra sea days. More time to actually relax....not running into ports everyday. Exactly why we booked the Spa Suite...boy, are we going to get our fill of relaxing on THIS cruise! love, love, love it! :D

[MrLee]

One thing I haven't noticed in this discussion is the fact the EPIC itinerary is not port intensive. That will result in more sea days and more cash flow.

 

The itineraries and different ports are what attracted my wife and me to NCL. The EPIC three port itenerary makes it less likely for us to book. But, there are all of the other ships and itineraries!

 

Something that has had me wondering...How many ports will Epic be able to actually dock at due to it's size? With so many people, I can see tendering (as well as loading and unloading the ship to begin with :D) as being a bit problematic. As we all know, some cruisers show very little patience in those situations.

[ZoneHPH]

(i did not read all the posts...just some of the earlier ones...and the more recent ones.)

 

NCL does want to make the ship "the experience". as opposed to simply taking you to a port where you go on an excursion, etc...etc. NCL can't make money if you aren't on the ship buying/paying for stuff. sure there are ship sponsored excursions, but many of us opt to go independent.

 

it's going to be a battle to balance what we as passengers want in terms of "more bang for our buck"...and NCL still turning a profit.

 

so long as NCL provides an affordable "base cruise" price...their goal is to get you to spend money once you are onboard...right? and the only way to do that is to have more sea days.

 

i kinda like just sailing around the ocean.

 

EDIT: a ship this size most likely will avoid having to tender. i cannot say it will never have to tender at some ports. but for now...no tendering.

[Don Haynes]

Think in terms of the Majesty. That ship was bought for less than $250 million with a bank loan. After NCL added a few more mortgages for the ship, at the end they sold the Majesty to Louis Lines for $150 million as I recall. While NCL paid a lot of interest on the loan, and on some of the capital, they never paid much of the capital off until they sold the ship.

 

Big business has always had better breaks from the banks. As long as they pay the banks their interests on their revolving credit and some of the original loan off, the banks maintain their revolving credit. Keep in mind big business deducts expenses and depreciates its ships as well.

 

Banks like it when they are receiving interest payments, that is why so many will do another mortgage on your house or even your car. But most of us prefer to eliminate our debt, but not necessarily big business. What the banks don't like is anyone not paying interest payments. Notice your credit card requires a much smaller payment each month to maintain your debt with them, but you have the capacity to pay off the entire debt or a part of your debt each month....

[gtalum]

It's like the old adage (often credited to Donald Trump) and I paraphrase:

 

If you owe the bank $100,000 they own you, if you owe them $100,000,000 you own them. :D

[njhorseman]

Think in terms of the Majesty. That ship was bought for less than $250 million with a bank loan. After NCL added a few more mortgages for the ship, at the end they sold the Majesty to Louis Lines for $150 million as I recall. While NCL paid a lot of interest on the loan, and on some of the capital, they never paid much of the capital off until they sold the ship.

 

Big business has always had better breaks from the banks. As long as they pay the banks their interests on their revolving credit and some of the original loan off, the banks maintain their revolving credit. Keep in mind big business deducts expenses and depreciates its ships as well.

 

Banks like it when they are receiving interest payments, that is why so many will do another mortgage on your house or even your car. But most of us prefer to eliminate our debt, but not necessarily big business. What the banks don't like is anyone not paying interest payments. Notice your credit card requires a much smaller payment each month to maintain your debt with them, but you have the capacity to pay off the entire debt or a part of your debt each month....

 

 

Except when an economic crisis makes the banks incapable of continuing to offer that stream of revolving credit to big business. Then big business goes belly up like GM and Chrysler recently did, and we taxpayers are left holding the bag because Uncle Sam has to bail them, and the banks, out.

[WinnieinWA]

I have nothing more to offer other than I will not be sailing the Epic. It's much too large for my tastes. To you younger CC'ers I'm sure you will love it! It's just too long a walk between ends for this senior. :D

[ZoneHPH]

I have nothing more to offer other than I will not be sailing the Epic. It's much too large for my tastes. To you younger CC'ers I'm sure you will love it! It's just too long a walk between ends for this senior. :D

 

could you imagine if they had a moving walkway like they do in some airports? :)

[pcreek]

could you imagine if they had a moving walkway like they do in some airports? :)

 

 

Now, THAT would be really cool! :D

 

Winnie - you can always do like we're doing...book a Spa Suite - have the butler bring your dinner from anywhere...hang out in the spa (right across the hall) or on your balcony or hot tub in your room.

Don't have to walk much of anywhere.... except the occasional stroll to see what's happening around the ship. Thought I'd send dh out for this....I plan on totally relaxing and doing nothing this trip! ahhhh......

[Mangojh2]

I'm sorry I didn't read the whole thread but CNBC had a special on cruise ships and profits a couple months ago. I'm not sure if anyone saw it but it was fascinating. It was on the Pearl.

 

Basically according to NCL, they need to fill the rooms for whatever price they can, and then they need to sell sell sell to the passengers. If they don't book the rooms, they can't make up the money no matter what.

 

They know exactly how many dollars of alcohol they need to sell to each customer. They know what the casino must do and all the other services. They have very precise numbers that they strive to meet. They wouldn't say exactly what those numbers were, but next time you are asked for the 13th time in one hour if you would like a drink, you will know why.

[petesweet]

could you imagine if they had a moving walkway like they do in some airports? :)

 

The movie "Wall-E" comes to mind.:eek:

Kathy

[ben55124]

Rum-runner detectors --> Epic PROFIT!

[nykaren_greg]

I did see this prior to my first cruise on NCL last week. I agree that it was fascinating. The only thing I did not find completely believable was that the cruise was not into profit until the last day at sea. With the volume of bar drinks being sold, I just don't see it. It does explain the "high sell" pressure you feel, at times, though.

[time2cruise1]

I have nothing more to offer other than I will not be sailing the Epic. It's much too large for my tastes. To you younger CC'ers I'm sure you will love it! It's just too long a walk between ends for this senior. :D

 

Does not stop the seniors on the QM2 which is even longer then the Epic ;)

[coaster]

First off, NCL made a smart decision to abort the 2nd Epic class ship. The penalties paid and nothing to show for it was the right decision. This class of ship was designed when the economy was much stronger and there wasn't the current glut of ships. The weak economy also does not lend itself to the 'pay as you go' structure that the Epic is going for.

 

Epic may make a profit at the beginning until the initial hype is over. The burden to fill this ship on an ongoing basis where additional fees are the norm will be an issue. The cover charges for bars, nightclubs, and the numerous dining options have not been announced. I believe NCL will attempt to charge for any food option outside of a buffet. NCL has been silent on the extra fees and that tells me something.

[coka]

Well, keep the cruise price low to keep people like me. Keep the cruise price low to attract the new cruisers. Keep the cruise price low to get the competition's cruisers to sail with them. Keep the onboard experiences unique from the competition's. Keep the overall vacation experience a better bargain than going on a land vacation. Continue to have an excellent suite experience...a ship within a ship to keep those who can afford it returning.

 

As others stated, the big money is made once on board. Take the Sky for example. My bill at the end of a four night cruise was more than the double price I paid for the cabin. ...Now imagine what it would be if I gambled, went on excursions, ate at a specialty restaurant, played bingo, bought a photo, and drank all four days? Many people do just that. I do however have enough Virginia Slims to hold me over until my next cruise. LOL

 

The Epic seems to have something for everyone. Some will be "free" and some will be "fee." The Epic cruiser can experience their vacation in just the way they choose.

coka

[nykaren_greg]

The Epic seems to have something for everyone. Some will be "free" and some will be "fee." The Epic cruiser can experience their vacation in just the way they choose.

coka

 

My bet it that most will be "fee."

[rian90]

I have never sailed NCL but I love them anyway! My husband and I will be going to Europe next year and staying in a balcony. The cost on RCL was too much for us and no way could we afford Celebrity. So while those ships might be great, for folks like my husband and I with three kids to support, having a chance to go on a cruise to Europe is a dream come true. We would never have been able to do it if NCL did have decent prices. Yes, I realize if we want to eat at the fancy restaurants we will pay more. But we could eat sushi every night and still not pay as much we would on RCL or Celebrity.

 

Isn't it wonderful that there are cruise lines for everyone, no matter our budget, our lifestyle, or our preferences? Why do folks have argue over what is best? Or basically tell others their choices are better?

[Kruizin'Kath]

We booked the Epic for next August. We got an incredible deal on an inside...I don't plan on being in the cabin too often! We are seniors and definitely do not look like the artists rendering of passengers, and quite frankly I don't care what others look like! We booked this cruise to see & experience the new ship, and even with airfare it will be as cheap as Boston-Bermuda was last year;)! They will, of course, make their money on the extras, and if one doesn't spend their entire budget on the booking, they'll most likely drop it in the casino & bars (at least I know we will!).

[jocap]

As for the artist's renditions... um... they're artist's renditions. NCL's marketing team clearly chose to go the road of most other advertisers - with images that they believe people find most appealing to look at. That means nothing whatsoever about what those people look like themselves. :p If seeing people in advertisements that appear 'too perfect' are going to turn you off of NCL, though, you might as well give up on cruising all together, because I have yet to see an ad for any cruise line that depicts people with any physical 'imperfections' at all. :)

A brochure for Fred Olsen cruises arrived, with the usual "beautiful people" in the forground. However, if you looked beyond them, there were the usual, normal cruisers- no make up, casual clothes and pretty much like me!......jocap.

[Elde]

First off, NCL made a smart decision to abort the 2nd Epic class ship. The penalties paid and nothing to show for it was the right decision. This class of ship was designed when the economy was much stronger and there wasn't the current glut of ships. The weak economy also does not lend itself to the 'pay as you go' structure that the Epic is going for.

 

I do wish people would stop saying "the economy" when they mean "the current economic conditions" - the two terms, despite constant misuse in the media, do not mean anything close to the same thing.

 

The current situation is, as it always is, temporary. With the second F3 being years away from delivery, basing purchasing decisions (or Monday morning quarterbacking) on the current situation is dubious at best.

 

Doubly so when all NCL ships are 'pay as you go'.