When Does Tip Talk On a Tour Get On Your Nerves?

[California Native]

[quote name='SamFritz']I'm not at all ashamed. I'm never begging. I spend thrity five seconds of a five hour tour mentioning tips. I've had local newspapers accompany me on my tour and do fabulous write ups of my total presentation (and yes I did my regular tip talk knowing that they were with me).

I actually discussed this thread with my supervisor this afternoon. His exact words were, "most of our drivers make tips a bigger deal than you do. The ones who don't don't last very long because it's not worth it." He sees my presentation of the matter as understated and appropriate.[/quote]

[SIZE=3][COLOR=indigo]Hmmm, you're not ashamed?[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=indigo][/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=indigo]WOW![/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=indigo][/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=indigo]In that case, I won't be embarassed not tipping you.[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=indigo][/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=indigo]You ask for input, but then get upset we aren't giving you a green light[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=indigo][/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=indigo]You acknowledge that most of us our savvy world travellers compared to your usual clientele...and yet you don't like our feedback[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=indigo][/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=indigo]I've hired some pretty expensive private guides from St. Petersburg, Russia to Cappadocia, Turkey to Moorea, Tahiti and many places in between. [/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=indigo][/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=indigo]I admire and appreciate their knowledge and I tip generously when they have gone above and beyond what my agreed upon tour was...[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=indigo][/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=indigo]I have not a guide, but just a driver on the Amalfi Coast during Summer traffic [/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=3][COLOR=indigo]that is worthy of a 50 percent tip![/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=indigo][/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=indigo]I've had a driver in Bosnia that kept us safe from some unsavory characters (I didn't ask what he did in the war) [/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=indigo][/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=indigo]all of these people made our travels safe and yet intellectually gratifying and rewarding...[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=indigo][/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=indigo]not once did they ask for a tip and I can assure you their living conditions are far worse than you will ever experience...[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=indigo][/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=indigo]so, if you ask or imply I should tip you...[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=indigo][/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=indigo]the answer will be NO and I will mention your company on every message board I can think of ....[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=indigo][/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=indigo]If your boss and you think that is acceptable behavior on how to conduct your business..that is your choice...[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=indigo][/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=indigo]but you might be singing a different tune when you lose business[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=indigo][/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=indigo]just my 2 cents[/COLOR][/SIZE]

[Goldryder]

[quote name='SamFritz']I'm not at all ashamed. I'm never begging. I spend thrity five seconds of a five hour tour mentioning tips. I've had local newspapers accompany me on my tour and do fabulous write ups of my total presentation (and yes I did my regular tip talk knowing that they were with me).

I actually discussed this thread with my supervisor this afternoon. His exact words were, "most of our drivers make tips a bigger deal than you do. The ones who don't don't last very long because it's not worth it." He sees my presentation of the matter as understated and appropriate.[/QUOTE]

OK...so I have slept on this....and you are still nothing more than a steering wheel attendant with a begging bowl...almost a modern day highwayman, a case of 'right you on tour, I've done my bit...now give me a tip or else!'

I have been in the tour driver/guide fraternity as both a boss and a driver and a guide for around 20 odd years and never...NEVER...have I ever come across anyone so blatantly disrespectful to guests as you are (and, it seems, your boss and the other drivers too by your own admission) at Niagara Falls.

Quite frankly you have probably damaged the reputation of decent operators over there by this behaviour...one brush often tars all...and to be brutally honest here, I get the feeling that your behaviour could even be to cause trouble for other operators who might be doing better than you.

A few years ago a very large coach tour company's drivers in the area I lived decided that they would cause similar trouble. Not only did they extort tips from their guests but they accused attraction owners of not making it worthwhile for them to take guests to their facilities...ie, at the end of the season the attraction owners would present all of us with a little extra as a 'thank you' for taking guests to see them. The owners were never obliged to, but they did cos they wanted to. Well the drivers from this particular firm decided they were worth alot more than what was being given out and they threw what was given back at the owners of the attractions. End result was that many of the attractions then barred coach parties altogether, so EVERYONE lost out..especially and most imortantly the guests lost out and that is WRONG!

So now that you have given us all your spiel...and remember, we are from all over the world, not just the USA here...you have now managed to alienate your own tour experience but also that of other drivers in your company and possibly other companies too...since people, especially first time visitors to an area, generally look upon one bad apple and see and entire rotten tree.

Like I said at the start, YOU are bang out of order, you, your boss and the rest of the drivers in the firm that you work for are nothing more than steering wheel attendants in it for nothing more than the tip you get at the end of the day and you frankly don't care how you get the tip.

By acting the way you do you have also placed doubt in the mind of visitors as to the decency of other companies working in the area too and that is also bang out of order.

Personally I am not sure why you started this thread and as to the claim that you have yet to have a complaint face to face, well there is only one thing to say on that score. One anyone feels bullied or intimidated into paying money - whether it be subtle or not, they will do so quietly and then walk away. But one thing is almost guaranteed, the things they saw and learnt and enjoyed during the day with you will probably have been overshadowed by your remarks as they were about to exit your vehicle.

[uppitycats]

Hey, OP, if you really don't want input, why did you bother to ask the question?

I've made a note of your tour company so that I can be sure to avoid it in the future. Thanks for the early warning.

[SamFritz]

So I've gone back through the whole thread and placed comments into one of four categories. I've only counted multiple posters once and I have included the comments from the ridiculous flamers near the end. Here's my count:

No Tipping Reminders at all - 13
Sign Only - 20
Sign and One Verbal Mention - 10
As Presented OK - 4

By far the biggest response that I feel may warrant an adjustment on my part is my closing comment. Now I have not presented that comment in its full context. It does follow an outpouring of apprecation to everyone on the trip, Thank you for comming to Niagara Falls, Thank you for choosing this tour company, thank you for your cooperation on the tour etc.

The tour is fun, people love it. I love doing it and I pour my heart into it every day I'm out there. Those who have characterized my 35 seconds of "tip talk" a begging or coersion or extortion are misunderstanding the nature of the entire time we spend together. That is understandable, I provided limited context to the very brief and friendly comments I make.

To those of you who reduce your tip every time a tip is mentioned, even at the first mention please consider that tour guides are not "Wheelmen". Wheelmen are paid three times driver/guides because it is assumed that driver/guides will receive customary tips. Many people don't understand this and some form of gratuity eduction is needed. If you already know this, please be patient while your guide helps others on the trip to understand what you already know.

To those of you who honstly and respectfully shared your thoughts, Thank you. I hope that you will visit Niagara and maybe even come on my tour some day. You'll love it.

To you flamers who decided it would be fun to beat up on an honest and hard working professional, Get a life.

[BroncosFan2010]

While taking the Cosol tour in St. Lucia, we were constantly reminded to tip. What made it even worse was that Cosol himself kept telling us all to go back and write on Cruise Critic about how GREAT his tour was! It was really obnoxious, especially because the tour in no way lived up to the hype on these boards. It was OVER crowded, with close to 200 people. The roads were blocked, our driver rarely spoke to us. The volcano was so packed with people that our driver did not even stop to let us out to look.

We paid our fee, but did not tip. And I came back to let everyone on these boards know exactly what type of experience I had on Cosol's tour.

[flamomo]

I'd be VERY offended by:

#1 The sign suggesting 15%. It's my decision what percentage a guide has earned, and I will not respond favorably to you telling me how much you expect.

#2 Your little "whining for tips chat" at the beginning of the tour. You ARE paid by the tour company, and tips are what you get for doing a good job, in the eyes of the passenger. Implying that the tour company does not pay much does NOT make me feel sorry for you and want to supplement your paycheck. Only good service and a pleasant attitude will motivate me to give you a tip.

#3 Your ""cutsey reminder" at the end. What - your passengers are too stupid to to have gotten the begging for tips message the first time?

 

I'd be very inclined to get myself off the bus at the end of the tour WITHOUT your assistance, and walk past you without giving you a penny, EVEN if it was a great tour and you were a good guide. Why? Because what you are doing is rude.

Edited July 16, 2009 by flamomo

[tmitchell82]

Put me in the camp that a sign is okay, but asking for a tip or stating that tips is how you get your compensations is overkill. When I hear that, my tip goes down. Went on a snorkel tour a few years back and we constantly hear from the crew that they only get paid with tips. My thought was, if that is all you get paid, than why are you here. The tour was nice and I nice tip would have been forthcoming had they not keep mentioning it. Was on Herod's Land and Sea Tour earlier in the year and tipping was not mentioned through out the day. The tour was excellent and we tipped very well. I understand that tips are part of the income for the tour guide, but tips are something earned, not just given because I went on a tour.

[vscruiser]

I consider it rude and inappropriate behavior to ask anyone for additional $$$$ and that is not in the true definition of a TIP

 

This is exactly how I feel about it. A tip is something I choose to pay because I enjoyed the service. The paying of the tip and the amount should be my choice.

 

I would also add that, prior to anyone paying for and receiving any service which people typically tip, the mentioning of tips being accepted should be stated (not the amount of tip or the expectation of tip). If people are unaware that a service is typically tipped (as in restaurants), they are not going to account for that additional expense and are likely to feel irritated at the mention of it AFTER employing the service.

[ILoveScotland]

 

 

To those of you who reduce your tip every time a tip is mentioned, even at the first mention please consider that tour guides are not "Wheelmen". Wheelmen are paid three times driver/guides because it is assumed that driver/guides will receive customary tips. Many people don't understand this and some form of gratuity eduction is needed. If you already know this, please be patient while your guide helps others on the trip to understand what you already know.

 

 

To you flamers who decided it would be fun to beat up on an honest and hard working professional, Get a life.

 

These comments continue to indicate that you don't get what's being said, and that's too bad. First, I've not read any comments I would call flaming or beating you up although some were pretty direct in their thoughts and opinions.

 

Lots of us are honest and hardworking professionals, but that's not a reason to ask for or receive tips. I'm a minister, but I don't stand at the back of the church each Sunday morning asking for tips because I chose a profession that is usually less well paid than other professions.

 

Tips are given for quality of service, not quantity and not because the tour guide is a hard working person.

 

But, most important, I think this group fully understands the differential in pay, and those people on your tours that don't can be reminded by a tasteful sign saying "tips appreciated." As I read your original comments and even your expanded information about what you say I continue to hear not education about tips but pressure to put money in your pocket. Perhaps that's not what you intend, but that's what the people on this thread have heard--all the people as I read the posts.

Edited July 16, 2009 by ILoveScotland

[Goldryder]

 

To you flamers who decided it would be fun to beat up on an honest and hard working professional, Get a life.

 

This last sentence pretty much sums it up really.

 

You maybe hard working but certainly NOT professional in your methods, and as for the 'get a life', well sorry but that just shows how much contempt you truly have towards your guests if that is the attitude you show to people here when we give you our opinions to what you're doing.

 

You are in the wrong business, your guests deserve far better than you and (it seems) your company's attitude towards them. You might just as well turn all of your guests upside down, shake all their money out of their bags and pockets and dump them by the roadside with that attitude.

 

Absolutely disgraceful behaviour.

[Ice Machine]

Here's my count:

 

No Tipping Reminders at all - 13

Sign Only - 20

Sign and One Verbal Mention - 10

As Presented OK - 4

 

 

I haven't went through and counted but I think you're missing a couple categories here. The sign only should split into 2: Subtle reminder such as "Tipping is Appreciated" and with the addition of suggested percentage. Also if I recall several posters were okay with one verbal reminder if it was reworder and not as direct. If you really want to get a good idea I'd suggest setting an actual poll with suggested categories such as the following and add text on what the verbal mentions would be:

 

- No Tipping Reminders at All

- Sign with subtle reminder such as Tipping is Appreciated

- Sign which includes suggested tip amount (15%)

- Initial verbal reminder (provide suggested wording)

- Maybe second verbal reminder choice

- Final Reminder (include wording and maybe two choices)

- Multiple subtle reminders throughout tour

 

As for my opinion, I'm firmly in the sign only, with no suggested amount given category. I will provide you the benefit of the doubt that your tours are great and bracketing a 5 hour tour these may not seem as bad, however if I actually listen and hear your reminders you will receive minimal or no tip from me. I'm form southern Ontario and also lived near Niagara Falls so I've been there many times but never on a tour so I can't comment on whether this is typical practice for tours in that area.

Edited July 16, 2009 by Ice Machine

[chloepants]

Wow, not much left to say; it's all been stated so well.

 

I come from a society that tips. I have worked in the service industry. Your sign is rude - I would probably comment to the people I was with about it but I wouldn't say anything to you. The first mention of expecting a tip (and that is what you are doing) your tip goes to zero. Absolutely nothing. And I'd probably contact your tour company to complain.

 

If I make no mention of tips I'll make twenty dollars on a five hour tour. Doing what I do, I make $120.

 

Did you ever think that maybe this is because the people don't want to make a scene, not that they didn't know what to do?

 

 

... a tip should be seen as a bonus, never as something taken for granted or expected

 

This really is the crux of it - service industry people nowadays seem to think that the customer is in the wrong for not tipping when it is 100% their choice to do so or not.

 

You chose that profession so you have to take the good with the bad. Some days you'll get amazing tips, some days you won't. That's how it works.

[grandmato4]

I'm perfectly fine with everything you said UP to your last statement just before leaving the bus. With that particular wording you've now made me feel as if the tiip is no longer "up to me" but a ransom for getting off the bus. NOT the best way to get the best tip from me nor would you get a recommendation from me to anyone else because you just made me forgot all the other good things I may have liked about your tour and created a very poor last image which we all know that first images and last images are really what is most important as all else gets lost.

[bqkali]

I have already paid an agreed-upon price (often an expensive price) for the services of a tour and because of that I expect the guide to provide the tour as it was described when I signed up. There is no reason I should have to pay another $7.50 per person (15%) on a $50 tour. If your wages are not what you consider "acceptable" then I can't imagine why you would accept the position in the first place. At this point it is an issue between a guide and his employer and not my responsibility to provide a sufficient salary.

That being said, I will tip a nominal amount ($1-3) if I have received friendly service or better than expected narration. Smiles and enthusiasm are always appreciated. Any tour guide who goes above and beyond will receive aproportional gratuity...things like spending time providing personal recommendations of other things to do in the area after the tour, giving directions to favorite local restaurants, etc. But these tips are because I have received things I didn't expect and didn't already pay for as part of my tour price.

 

If I'm on a private tour, I tend to tip more since I recognize the guide does some behind-the-scenes work of planning out my day and customizing itineraries to my personal interests. The tip is proportional to the amount of effort required on their part while planning and the service I receive on the day of the tour itself. I've definitely tipped more than 15% and have tipped less than 15% as well when I was unimpressed with the service.

 

A sign at the front - worded politely and without an amount - is acceptable, though probably unnecessary and still a little tacky. If a tour guide goes as far to verbally mention that they expect a tip, it is a strike against them in my book. I find it highly unprofessional and downright presumptuous. It detracts from my experience and therefore warrants no tip. Trust me - a smile and good service will do more for your tip bucket than verbal reminders.

[EJ'S MOM-MOM]

I am from a family of people that have worked in the service industry (restaurants) to put themselves thru college or supplement household income. Because of that I am usually a very generous tipper but if a person (whether it be in a restaurant or a guide) asked for a tip in any way I would be put off & the tip would decrease.:(.. People that travel usually know that tour drivers/guides are not paid very well & make most of their income via tips. So my opinion is you should put the signs away & forget the speach. Just my 2cents....

[OnVacation11]

I would agree with the majority that the sign is OK (I would personally ignore the 15% suggestion and decide my own amount). Any additional mentions of tips, would be a big turn off as I will tip because I enjoyed the tour and the guide, not because I feel sorry that your wages are not high enough.

If you only get $20 in tips without the solicitation, maybe you are not as good a guide as you think !

[notentirelynormal]

I talked to a friend yesterday about this issue. She has worked in the service industry her entire career in many different positions. She is now a waitress at a trendy restaurant in Malibu. She refuses to add tips even for large parties. She feels that if she did her job properly, she will be rewarded accordingly.

 

She’s a huge tipper and firmly believes in the tipping system. Last night, she left a 100% on her bar tab. However, when I mentioned your question and that you put the sign up, ask for 15% and then twice verbally ask for money she said you would get zero from her. No one has to ask for a tip that has done their job properly and well. Those are her words and I have to agree.

 

Many posters have stated over and over – don’t ask for it. You tend to ignore and whine about the responses. I can assure you, there is likely no one but you who feels you are a true “professional”. You are already paid to do your job – drive me and give me an informative pleasant tour. That’s your job. Don’t you get it? I paid you to do that. I don’t OWE you anything else. I sure don’t owe you 15% of anything. Seriously, are you crazy! Not everyone gets tips for doing their job. You said you were a school teacher. Did you receive tips? Get over it. You work in a job that you feel you are underpaid for, you are rude to your passengers and you probably get rotten tips because of the poor job you do with all your begging, whining and complaining. That is why you get minimal tips and really it makes no difference to me what the other drivers do. Like the old saying goes, if everyone jumped off a bridge, would you too? No, you make your own decisions on your actions. Your decision is to reduce the pleasure of your tour by berating your passengers for money.

[dunbawn]

 

 

This really is the crux of it - service industry people nowadays seem to think that the customer is in the wrong for not tipping when it is 100% their choice to do so or not.

 

I too have worked in the service industry for over 40 years. Never once have I demanded a tip nor was one expected at times (ie:coffee stands). Now it seems as though everyone down to the busboy expect tips.

Correct me if I'm wrong but is not the OP going on a cruise ? Does he expect to "tip" the captain of the ship. Does not the captain deliver you safe and sound to whatever port? Does he not tell you interesting facts about where you are? Maybe we should include the Cruise Director in this also. I was brought up to tip for exceptional service not "just because".

 

Eileen

[MoYerclan]

You are wrong, check any tipping guide. Guided day tours are to be tipped at 15% of the ticketed price.

 

Tipping is totally voluntary. You're shaking people down and it would peeve me off. It is as rude and tacky as getting a wedding invitation with a notice included on where the bride is registered for gifts. It is just *not done*!

 

Right behind your examples of how you shake folks down, tip clips or jars are annoying especially when you see one with an obviously "planted" $20 bill or something right on top pretending to have been given.

[twinklen01]

I'm sorry if I offend anyone but this is my opinion........I think tipping has gone overboard. I no longer know who and when to tip. Feels like i ts mandatory to tip every employee that breathes.

 

so now is one suppose to tip school bus drivers..no its there job to drive right?

do we tip public transportation no its there job right?

 

I see college tour guides giving tours on camps so do they get tips at the end?

 

tipping is confusing and very annoying. I know many say if you can take a trip you can afford to tip everyone on the tip list but I dont make lots of money and the money i do save for my trip(Nov will be my 2nd family trip) is money i sacraffic for my trip I i get my hair done maybe twice a year, i only get pedicures once in awhile, i dont have a bunch of clothes just what i need etc so I'm going to stick to tipping waiters and hotel/cabin cleaners.

 

I know your just trying to make it in this economy as many of us our but many of us work and dont expect tips because its our job to do the work duties. ok those throwing tomatos at me please add some salt because i like mine with salt-lol!

Edited July 16, 2009 by twinklen01

[Langley Cruisers]

To you flamers who decided it would be fun to beat up on an honest and hard working professional, Get a life.

 

Wow. Just... wow. You ask a question and then get upset at the responses. My goodness. Don't look now, but your true colors are showing. :rolleyes:

[SeaTeach]

Any mention of a tip would annoy me. As an adult I am well aware that a tip is to be given after such a service.

[Taxguy77]

hmmm...I used to operate tour coaches and before that I would courier on them (tour guide).

 

I never ever mentioned tipping either as an operator or as a guide...and tbh, it was frowned upon if any drivers or guides did so where I used to live/work, so it was generally avoided out of courtesy.

 

 

My own personal feelings about asking or hinting or reminding about tipping, if you do your job right and you entertain and inform your guests well, then in all honesty, there should be absolutely no need to ask, hint or remind anyone to tip.

 

Edited to add that a tip should be seen as a bonus, never as something taken for granted or expected, least not in my opinion. I was always extremely grateful to my guests and the best tip I ever had was to know that they enjoyed their day in my company, so anything above that was indeed a bonus.

 

We took an all-day bus tour in Scotland, the driver never mentioned tips, and everyone I saw tipped at the end.

[jannandjohn]

I agree.

 

I come from a non-tipping society

and I give you two mentions allowed.

After the third mention I'm annoyed, sorry.

 

 

Frankly the whole tipping thing is a P.I.T.A.

 

.

we don't have tipping in Australia as a mandatory thing.

Asia is even stronger and feel they insulted if tipped, as if they are lowly workers, and need the money.

eg Japan, Singapore, China..

a Young Japanese girl who took our luggage to our room in a Japanese hotel last month, absolutey refused,as we did offer., she said she would be in a lot of trouble if she accepted..and we tried to take our own luggage, but she insisted..and struggled with it, they are such tiny girls, my husband was really embarrassed, but she would not let him touch it.

 

In Oz, we give ONLY if we feel the worker went WAY beyond anything neccesary...ie. restaurants , cab drivers, hairdressers..but we are not OBLIGED TO, not at all...

most get a pleasant surprise when given a tip.

Our workers are ALL paid a proper wage.

it's up to the employer to pay the wages

...not the customers of the employer.

 

ps..we went on a 18 day bus tour of Europe in 2002,

the tour guide talked about her tip and how much, the entire trip, everyday , for 18 days

..needless to say, not one of 38 people gave her anything when we left her.

and 36 were americans, plus us two Aussies.

Edited July 17, 2009 by jannandjohn

[Taxguy77]

WOW! You asked for responses and GOT them is spades!

Some seemed to miss part of your original post and be very vocal, but I believe you can see an opion shaping up, which I subscribe too also:

Talk of a tip at the beginning is a turn-off!:(

Amount on the written sign is rather blatent,

Your last speech just made me put AT LEAST half your tip back in my pocket.:eek:

For other readers who may not have been to this area, many of the people who work in the area are NOT subtle.:rolleyes: