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On 9/28/2023 at 6:09 PM, LindaS272 said:

“Shore excursions vary by each itinerary and are subject to change.”

As you quite rightly say, if the excursions themselves were changed it would indeed be covered by the disclaimer. However as @LinnieRed and others have pointed out, the issue here is not that the excursions are changing in any way.

On the contrary, it seems in some cases the excursions themselves are remaining exactly the same. The only change is Viking's unilateral decision to make a charge for the very same excursion they had originally marketed as being included. 

To my mind that is not a change to the excursion itself, but only a change in the cost to customers for that excursion. I would therefore suggest that the exclusion you quote is not really applicable.

9 hours ago, lackcreativity said:

Almost immediately after our booking, the website switched to the current Scenic Flanders & Coastal Village of Knokke-Heist.

That can happen for all sorts of reasons, and I was very careful to say that the tour details were accurate "in the vast majority" though obviously not all cases.

9 hours ago, lackcreativity said:

Cruising, in fact most forms of travel, benefits from the ability to adapt to change without too much disappointment, because inevitably, something will happen!

I totally agree with you, that is certainly the best attitude to have.

My issue here is the reduction in confidence that has arisen over which included tour one will actually be able to book now that Viking sometimes lists more than one in their publicity material. An even greater problem is that there have apparently been cases where the same tour, previously publicised as included, became an optional tour once bookings opened on MVJ. That is effectively a price change and something which is completely under Viking's control.

19 hours ago, Messybill said:

It is clear that the higher priced cabins get first choice.

I absolutely agree with you, Viking do make that clear, and that is perfectly reasonable. I also agree with your assertion that Viking offers one included tour at each port, nothing more.

Until recently, only one example included excursion was shown in the itineraries for each port listed on the website. In the vast majority of cases this information accurately portrayed Viking's offer of the included tour at that particular port. Everyone could be reasonably confident that this inclusion would be available to them in advance of making a booking.

These clear waters have been mudded by Viking now indicating that more than one included excursion will be available at some ports. There are no details provided on the website as to which, if any, of these included to tours will have a limited capacity.

As you quite rightly say, Viking have never guaranteed that all included tours will be available to everyone. The outcome of this is that (for some ports) Viking are offering an included tour of some sort for everyone, but without giving a clear indication of what that included tour will consist of. As a result customers will not know in advance what their included tour will be, and will simply have to take potluck once booking is open.

As others have said, that is probably not a dealbreaker, but it's certainly different to the way things worked in the past. 

If Viking are to be totally and completely aboveboard, I do feel that they should indicate on the website (perhaps, by using a different coloured "included" banner) which of these tours are likely be open to everyone and which are sure to be capacity capped.

44 minutes ago, Clay Clayton said:

Hope that doesn't blow your thesis!

It doesn't at all 🙂..... but it is very interesting to know that there may sometimes be availability on these enhanced excursions for those in DV. That would generally be a good thing and my only concern is that Viking avoids promoting them as "included" on their website without making clear availability is limited.

19 minutes ago, Geoffa30 said:

 

That port isn't on this itinerary.. Sorry I cannot help.

 

The only upgraded included excursion included on the itinerary is the Bluff Cove one I mentioned.

Sorry @Geoffa30 my error.

Recife is on the TA we are doing as a back to back following South America and Chilean Fjords next year. I rather stupidly forgot it was not all one cruise 😞 

Not too worry though, someone did post the price in dollars, I just wondered what the pound rate was.

1 hour ago, Geoffa30 said:

No doubt the included will be booked by those in the higher room categories before our lowly DV and we’ll pay for the privilege.

I am sure you are right. 

What price is the Ilha de Deus catamaran sail in Recife showing. It is currently marked as included on the Viking ocean website!

8 hours ago, Clay Clayton said:

To add another data point or two for whomever is doing the doctoral dissertation,

That would be me Clay 🧑‍🎓 😁

Please keep the data coming everyone!

21 hours ago, Meander Ingwa said:

somewhere along the line I have already had the photo and fingerprints done

I'm sure you realize this data will not be available for EES and you will need to have them taken again.

Let's assume you're right and the process takes 30 seconds per person. Now imagine you have 500 people in front of you going through five entry lanes at 30 extra seconds each. That is going to add an extra 50 minutes to the time that it takes for you to get through immigration into the EU. Hence my concern over the additional time.

I do speak from experience having gone through the process when it was introduced for non-us citizens coming into the USA.

11 hours ago, auntieS said:

No, ETIAS Won't Become Operational in 2024, EU Sources Say  - SchengenVisaInfo.com  

Rick Steves forum and other news sites quoting above now say May 2025 😄   Don't think official confirmation from .eu yet though.

That is an interesting article and thank you for the link.

What I think people are missing here is the impact of EES, the system that will be introduced ahead of ETIAS. EES will require that all non-EU nationals are photographed and fingerprinted at their first point of entry into the EU. 

ETIAS is a simple on-line form that people will be able to complete in the comfort of home. EES, on the other hand, will require us to stand in line to be processed in person at the point of entry. 

Therefore I feel that EES, which is likely to become active at some point in 2024, is a change that will have a much greater practical impact on our travel experience than ETIAS.

I am from the UK so, as you might imagine, I’ve had a fair amount of experience with British Airways over the last 30+ years. I must say that in all that time I’ve never had a really bad flight with BA, but until recently, never had a particularly outstanding one either.

With the exception of the cabin crew who have generally been excellent, the rest of the BA experience was always at the lower end of average. 

I started flying my transatlantics mainly with American Airlines back in 80’s because of their “more room in coach” initiative (remember that!) and because I could reserve my favourite seats in advance, which was not available on BA at that time. As a result, I never went back on BA for a long time and so probably missed the lowest of the low point that they reportedly got to, maybe a decade ago.

In the last few years, I’ve taken a few transatlantic flights with BA. I’ve been to Miami a couple of times, Barbados and a return sector with them from New York. All of the flights were fine and some I would even rate amongst my best ever flights, both in economy and business.

The upper deck of the BA A380s on the Miami route has window/aisle pairs that I would rate as the best economy seats across the Atlantic. I have also flown the Miami route in business on their 787-10 which has the new club suite. This is a world away from their old cramped business class, and was one of the best flights I’ve ever taken.

Overall, I think that the airline is turning things around and my own attitude to them has changed. I would certainly have no hesitation in using them again in future.

It would be interesting to know which flight you’re currently booked on?

7 hours ago, Clay Clayton said:

Daily Gratuities (we cover this with the shipboard credit our Travel Agent provides)

If you have booked direct with Viking I believe I am correct in saying that you can transfer that booking over to a TA within 30 days and benefit from the shipboard credit form them. Certainly something worth investigating.

On 6/3/2023 at 10:39 PM, leishirsute said:

On the positive side, the TA has been my advocate to get Viking to honor pricing and services thta they initially offered but changed during the process of booking,

Same for us. We once arrived at a Viking ship to find that our complementary beverage package had somehow gone missing. Rather than having to work the issue myself I emailed our agent who had it reinstated within a few hours. Without the agent it would have been my word against Viking's and I don't think I would have got very far.

1 hour ago, lackcreativity said:

I bet that provides them much more leeway for changing things than we might wish.

You are absolutely right of course. You probably realised I was talking more about people's perceptions than the legality of making changes like this. As you say, contractually the cards will be stacked in Viking's favour.

I'm hopeful that they will continue with their culture of being open and transparent. This is why they need to take care that their marketing material is not seen as being deliberately deceptive.

1 hour ago, uktog said:

$69 well worth it in our view

Thanks for the very quick response. I'm glad to see you're having such a great cruise!

On 9/4/2023 at 6:04 PM, uktog said:

We had a fun morning attending a cooking class.

Was there a charge?

10 hours ago, miami mama said:

I don't think you can relie upon if the excursion is indeed included or is at a cost until the actual day of reserving.

Agreed. and I think this is something Viking will need to be careful of if they're not going to be accused of bait and switch tactics.

28 minutes ago, LinnieRed said:

"Highlights of Rio” is $199 excursion. I know this because I just booked it. It was marketed as one of the included excursions when we booked,

Thanks for that update @LinnieRed

I noticed that it was marketed as included at one point, which led to the theory it might be one of these new upgraded included excursions.

I absolutely agree with you that it is very poor practice by Viking to indicate that a tour of that type is likely to be included at the point people are committing to a particular cruise, only to disappoint them when the excursion booking window opens.

17 minutes ago, gma1 said:

I think some of our included tours on Viking Polaris "Panama & Scenic South America" 18 day cruise 10/11/23 may be,

The expedition ships are rather a different case. My recollection is they were originally marketed with almost all excursions included. By the time we sailed on the Octantis, there was a mixture of optional and good quality included excursions which sounds like what you are seeing.

Maybe this is spilling over, in a very limited way, to the ocean ships?

1 minute ago, Harrietq said:

Also, the fact that this is part of a grand tour and those boarding at Vancouver were able to book earlier than those taking this segment was working a bit against me

That makes sense, and I see you certainly did your best 

Thanks for the information @Harrietq it is good to have further confirmation that this really is "a thing"

Our experience has been somewhat different to yours. We have always sailed in DV and have always got onto the excursions that we wished to. Though, to be fair, we are quick off the mark when the booking window opens.

I wish you the very best for all your future travel, whichever line it might happen to be on.

It seems that Viking have quietly introduced an additional upgraded excursion in some ports. Unlike the current included excursions, which are generally open to all passengers, the additional excursions have a limited number of places available.

Some relatively high value excursions, that were previously optional, have recently been listed as included on MVJ and have been available to book free of charge. Examples are “Secrets of Puna” in Hawaii and a SNUBA adventure, believed to be “Sea Trek Helmet Diving at Pigeon Island” in Castries, St. Lucia.

There are indications that “Highlights of Rio” in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil might in future be offered as an additional included excursion. The “Highlights of Puerto Madryn & Welsh Tea at Gaiman” in Argentina may also become a top level, limited numbers included excursion with the “Sea Lions at Punta Loma & Ecocenter” added as an included excursion open to all passengers. 

The changes have not officially been announced by Viking and maybe experimental at this stage. This move would primarily benefit passengers in higher grade cabins, who are able to book excursions up to 107 days prior to departure. However, they have no effect on Viking’s promise to provide all passengers with an included excursion at every port. Once places on the upgraded excursion have been taken, there will still be availability for all remaining passengers on an alternative included excursion.

Does anyone have any more examples of these additional and upgraded included excursions?

Thanks @Baron Barracuda and @CCWineLover your additional information adds further weight to the theory that I had developed.

I think we might be onto something!

Some of the points that I have made below have been picked up by others in the time that I've been typing, My fault for being so long-winded 😁  I will post it in full anyway........

This SNUBA included excursion not only got as far as being shown as included but was actually bookable free of charge on MVJ. It seems highly unlikely that this was simply a snafu in the back office.

I am wondering if Viking are experimenting with providing limited place, higher quality included excursions at particular ports on some cruises. These might be offered in addition to the “normal” tours that are included in each port. In practice, these “super” included excursions would only be available to those who, because they’re in a higher category cabins, get to choose first. This change could provide an additional differentiating factor for those who are paying a good deal more for their state rooms

Viking are only committed in their promotional material to providing an included tour (of some sort) to all passengers in every port. There is nothing to say that all included tours have to have unlimited availability as long as one of them does. In this case, once the spaces are filled on the SNUBA “super” included excursion, then there will still be a “standard” included excursion in that port that is available to all passengers.

My evidence for this theory comes from putting two and two together with this thread and something that I noticed on the Viking oceans website. 

On the itinerary for the Southern Atlantic Crossing, the eight-hour "Highlights of Rio” tour was flagged as included along with the much more basic “Historic Rio de Janeiro downtown by foot” I queried this with Viking UK, saying that the Highlights of Rio tour was unlikely to be included and having it flagged as such on their website was deceptive to potential customers. The included banner for that tour has now been removed but I would propose that it could still be offered as a “super” included tour on MVJ to a limited number of guests in the same way as the SNUBA tour.

If you look at the example excursions for Puerto Madryn, Argentina on the South America and Chilean Fjords itinerary, you will see there are two excursions flagged as included. At the top of the list there is “Highlights of Puerto Madryn & Welsh tea at Gaiman” which has been the included excursion for that port in the past. I would suggest that in future, this will be a limited numbers “super” included excursion, again similar to the SNUBA excursion.

Further down on the web page, you will see that the “Sea lions at Punta Loma & Ecocenter” is also shown as included. This is a shorter, and I would imagine, a less costly excursion from Viking’s point view, as it does not include a meal. If my theory is correct, this will be the “standard” included tour that will be available to everyone in future.

Congratulations on reading through all that! 

Now, I have to say that this is all speculation on my part and is currently, at most, something Viking may be experimenting with. However, if it turns out that I am correct please remember you heard it here first……..

On 9/1/2023 at 4:49 PM, WanderingBrit said:

I'm relatively sure it's Ecolab Ecobrite Super Silex liquid.

Things you can discover by asking questions on this board never ceases to amaze me 😁

8 hours ago, Snowcat1 said:

In the responses, several people have said that American Airlines flies to San Juan direct. But direct from where?

If you are travelling from Calgary, you will most likely have to change planes somewhere. You might like to consider doing as we did to get to San Juan from the UK. Viking allowed us to leave Heathrow on the day before embarkation and overnight at a Miami airport hotel (A Sheraton, which we got to easily using the shuttle train to the rental car facility) at our own expense. We then got a direct flight on AA from Miami to San Juan, leaving about 8:30 and arriving around noon.

We still qualified for Viking's transfer to the ship as we landed in San Juan on embarkation day. We arrived the ship around 1 o'clock and enjoyed the rest of that first day feeling refreshed having had a good previous nights sleep.