Tom and Ingrid

I think the Hideaway is a different ship(s). Team Earth is on deck 7 of the Eclipse: as opposed to the Silhouette: ...and Reflection:

Echoing what folks say about kids and teens not be a focus of Celebrity. My feeling is teens will find their way while on board. Depending upon the time of year and the specific itinerary, there will a few to quite a few teens on board. How do those folks meet up beyond the specific Celebrity programs (like Teen Club) is probably similar to how they do it at school or the mall or wherever younger folks hang out. Since your kids have done other cruises, they're likely comfortable figuring that out on a ship in a brief period of time. Simple stuff like hanging by the pool, basketball/pickleball courts, the silent disco, Abba sing-along, or other "open" activities likely give them a bunch of options.

Check out the ship specific part of the Celebrity website and you can see the dining options, and also things like the deck plans which help you see where things are laid out. I also forgot to mention the Aqua class (Blu) restaurant and the Retreat class (Luminae) restaurants which you have access to if you are in those. For many, the main dining room is more than enough. For many others, it's all about trying out all the specialty restaurants (for additional cost). There is no shortage of good food especially if it is the first time on Celebrity. After many cruises, you'll know the menus and options (they evolve but not super fast), but at the beginning, it's a lot of choices (and they don't say no to trying more than one thing - two appetizers, two entrees, two desserts).

First Celebrity cruise or just first on Reflection? Essentially, on the Solstice class ships (and to some extent the Millennium class), there is a large main dining room at the lower back of the ship (two floors) where you can eat a relatively nice meal with good service. Also, menus on the S and the M class for the main dining room are pretty familiar across the ships with some variety, but also a lot of "classic" options. At other places on the ship are the SPECIALTY restaurants, and they have their OWN menus - often with a specialty like steak, sushi, etc.. And, of course, you have the buffet at the top rear (Oceanview), which serves food all day and into the late evening, and you could easily eat there anytime. Other smaller food places as well scattered about the ship and plenty of bars (generally no food). The Edge class ships went the route of FOUR main dining rooms with - I think (never gone) their own menus.

But which both have the identical menu each night.

I wonder how much most folks know about how an investigation like this one should or would be carried out. Certainly, a small local paper or internet news site, is limited in both their resources and their understanding of all the rules and regulations of many (most) things. A story on - let's say - securities fraud is just as likely to make folks wonder why a seemingly "simple" action was "ignored" or swept under the carpet, but in reality, there is just much more to the story than gets shared beyond a press release. A press release is sadly about all that many "news" stories are built around. Assuming there is "more" to the story, there would or will be more to come out. Conspiracies are very hard to keep quiet, and there is almost always some or many folks willing to discuss what they witnessed or took part in. Sadly, in the internet era, there is usually an "immediate reaction" which often does not end up matching the eventual understanding. I do hope, if there was some mistake or active rule/law breaking, that corrections and barriers are put in place to prevent them from occurring again.

Emma did a short trip on the Explorer 2 and it did look good. I was intrigued by the addition of BALCONIES and not sure when that might have happened. As we were on it in 2004, there were none that I can see in the photos we have, and since we had a room with a porthole, I just thought we were being cheap back then and skipping a balcony 🙂 Here is how she looked in May 2004: vs now:

It has been too long 😞 since we have been there, but you WILL find views all over that island. We had a long morning/early afternoon hike from the port to Oia, where we had a lovely meal at the Skala restaurant overlooking the sea. The meal was delicious, the customer service was nice. And we just relaxed and enjoyed the beauty around us. We would return. The main caveat was we were at the END of the season. In fact, the restaurant gave us a free dessert as they were closing for the season, and did not want things to go to waste. You will not get that. Our seat on the terrace was shared with one or two other couples, so you will also not get that. We even got a little kitten to come sit with us as we ate 😄. We took the public bus back to Fira and cable car down to the tender area, but that timing is likely greatly complicated by more ships in port. Our logistics were easy peasy, but that's a benefit of being late in the season.

I think this remains the "core" point regardless of a needless "generational tag". Long before there even existed the Gen Z, cruise lines (or car companies) had to decide on their target audience(s) and also on a long term growth strategy. There will always be NEW 50 (or 40 or 60) year olds being created simply via aging. The kids in grade school become HS kids become college kids become young professionals become parents become... older folks with disposable income. It is never ending, and cruise lines just need to decide if the historic main target group of 50-70 is better expanded to 40-80 and how to do that. Does courting the 30-40 crowd chase away the VERY LUCRATIVE 50+ crowd? Can you balance younger interests and older interests on a medium sized ship or do you need a larger ship with more "tiers" to differentiate the groups? My bet is that as RCL group builds out their corporate plans - using X and RCL as distinct and mildly overlapping options - X moves upscale (if possible) and RCL focuses on the younger folks and families and mid-aged folks interested in a more active environment. Add in there is a difference between the E class ships and the M & S class ships already. This video - a little dated with the whiplash from price changes - shows how both traditional older cruisers and younger cruisers are wondering where they fit in to X right now. Both have places, but there is some self-awareness required to think through what "vibe" you're looking for in any cruise, vacation, tour, movie, concert, whatever before clicking "buy".

This thread makes me realize how "confusing" the smaller Hideaway Beach vs larger Coco Cay idea is. I've never been there but the gist seems to be that Coco Cay is a large section of beach which is "free" but exclusive to RCL/X folks. The Hideaway Beach is the adults only bit within the larger Coco Cay area and carries with it an entry (of varying cost) that gets folks access to extras like ????. And, if folks skip Hideaway, they can relatively easily find stretches of beach that are quiet and relatively uncrowded - some with lounges and easy access to food and some pools etc.? I'm not sure what the upsell point is except along the lines of the upsell for specialty restaurants or the Retreat? Is there a special Retreat section of Coco too? The list of "free" stuff to do seems pretty long. Adults only at Hideaway seems nice, but if the regular beaches are not crowded, kids tend to blend in anyway.

When we have had a drink package, it was never an issue finding wine at dinner on our package. The sommelier will offer suggestions - all part of your package - of red or whites. I guess it COULD be an issue, but I've never encountered it. This may be an inflation thing, but we had the basic on our Mar 2023 cruise and no challenges at all.

Using "generation" groups is sort of the wrong approach to this topic. Millennials in their 40s now, are far different than the younger group of Millennials still in their 20s! It's probably makes more sense to think along the line of 18-24, 25-30, 31-39, 40s, 50s, etc.. I'm thinking all of us were demonstrably different in our late 20s vs early 40s, so grouping folks spanning age 11(!) up to age 43, sure seems like a REALLY broad group for Celebrity to try to focus on. On Celebrity, you'll certainly see the late 30s and early 40s folks, and many of the Z folks will be with their parents, not as paying guests in large enough numbers yet for Celebrity to be chasing them with advertising dollars.

The shows (two of the same per night) are timed (and stay essentially the same) to correspond with either an early seating or a later seating in the MDR. It would be hard to miss a show if you chose one or the other time for dinner. At worst, at a really chatty table where folks are talking more than eating, you may look at your watch and decide dessert can wait(!) until later, and head to the show. The flip side - show first - is a little "messier" as you might be in a bit of a rush to get to the MDR prior to a line forming at the entrances.

My quick response would be no (to walkable from pier) and maybe (to walk to Pinney's). The water taxis seem to run from Reggae Beach (bottom of St Kitts) to Oualie Bay (close to top of Nevis). We took a taxi all over St Kitts when staying there at the Marriott (including down to the bottom for Turtle Beach, and that was not a quick journey). In Nevis, we stayed at the Four Seasons (on Pinney's beach), and walked easily to Charlestown and back along the beach & some small streets. Mostly, it all comes down to how fit you are and how much walking you enjoy. If you like to plan your own schedule, you can opt to schedule a water taxi from Reggae Beach, on the South East Peninsula of St Kitts, and dock at Oualie Bay, which sits on the north of the island.

I think there are two different types of "cast" shows - the big production ones which are usually the full dance, singing, and acrobat folks (usually on chic night) and the smaller cast shows like more a singing and dance event (a couple per weekly cruise). Then other nights are the "outside" entertainers which are either lower key comedians and magicians or bigger events like musicians & singers. So, there's always some shows, but the very first night is not ever (in my memory) the "big show" or the "chic night".

Sadly, as a Gen Xer, I've hit the halfway point on my journey through life, so Celebrity, for NOW is safe relying on me, but since I remember when Gen X was the Gen Z crowd that confused the older Boomer and even earlier gens, I know these newer gens will "age up" into the new normal for Celebrity. In no time, they'll be regaling the next gen about how "when we were kids, you played video games on a TV or phone!" to the wonder of those youngsters. "Uncle Dave, what's a TV?" 😂

I wish you luck in those other areas as well. 😞 In the US, the National Parks are overflowing and poor folks wait in lines for hours to enter some of the best (or circle endlessly in the parking lots after getting in). Venice, Amsterdam, and many other world cities are considering or already enacting measures to address overcrowding. Natural resource issues or extreme weather plague several cities/regions nowadays like Barcelona, Mexico City, and others. Gone are the days of Rick Steves' easy to find "back doors" to travel. There are great opportunities out there to get off a beaten path and/or to explore at a slower, less hectic pace, and there is one super easy path - spend a LOT more MONEY for it - and one tougher (but economical) path - spend a LOT more TIME planning & researching. It all can be done - in cruising it is super simple and just involves the more exclusive cruise lines. Heck, Ritz Carlton and the Four Seasons are joining the mix, and the Celebrity Galapagos ships are a great example of fewer (passengers) is more (relaxing). For us, it's more of setting reasonable expectations and also having the relative freedom to plan around the worst time - summer and US school holidays. Good luck in any case - taking a break, adjusting expectations, or going more upscale. We all need vacations, so I hope yours are great ones.

"Microwave"? 😙

I'm guessing it's the exact same questions folks asked about Gen X and before them Baby Boomers 😄. The wheel of time keeps on turning. ⏱️

Maybe you can elaborate on your "exercise" expectations. We generally get our exercise in two ways - on the ship by using the steps only & with laps of the pool area track and some bit of pool usage (pool walking vs swimming laps). and off the ship by planning active excursions (riding bikes, walking tours, swimming, hikes, etc). I've never thought of the Celebrity ships as particularly "exercise focused", although we do the dancing and my wife will do the "mini" classes for Zumba or similar. There is another thread in the past couple days about classes included in Aqua Class, so you might want to look there for some info too. Regarding "older" or dreary ships, the M (Millennium class) ship are the oldest and fell older (ie not packed with every "new idea" that has come along to cruising), they are smaller, and I find them pretty pleasant still, but definitely not shiny new by any stretch. The S (Solstice class) ships are new enough that they are of the transitional era of older style cruise ship with just a hint of the modern "amusement park" (done low key & well), a bit bigger, and still nice to cruise. The E (Edge class) are the latest and greatest and certainly evolving Celebrity ships in the direction begun with the S class - more dining options, more class distinctions, and more "interesting" design cues. I think the sweet spot remains the S class ships, but having come off the M class Infinity a few months ago, they're still nice and, since entertainment is a low priority, their smaller stage (and size in general) seems that's not a bad thing. Food (and service) is sooooo personal, it really is a try and see for yourself situation. We really enjoy the MDR for ALL of our dinners, but the S and the E class ships give you more "specialty" dining options than the M, and there are packages folks buy for specialty dining all the time (and classes like Aqua or Retreat that offer even more dining). We've been very happy over the years with the overall food on Celebrity, with random misses over the years. Never have we said, "We're done", and think the worst time was coming out of Covid when they were super short staffed despite fewer passengers. Down time is also relative to your level and comfort with other people and where you spend it. You can "buy" up to Retreat or get extra spa access for much reduced interaction with other folks, but we also generally just find the low density areas on a ship during sea days and relax there. The main pool deck - on a warm weather cruise - is not that location, unless relaxing to you is a tasty drink poolside while getting some sun and people watching. You can rent cabanas in various spots on different ships, so there is that up-sell option if you want it. There are bars around the ship that are very quiet throughout the day. There are the promenade decks on 4 or 5 that are always quiet. There are balcony cabins that are relaxing, and an inside cabin can be a "womb-like" experience if you want to truly just lounge in near total peace and quiet. Some boring, but in depth youtube video by Harr Travel give good ship walkthroughs (he has no real "constructive" criticism) and others youtube videos give good walkthoughs too.

What this thread shows is "it's complicated". Sadly but realistically, there must be a line in the sand and cut-off that is simple and straightforward and not highly subjective and time consuming and/or difficult to apply & explain. The 250 lbs one seems to be what often is chosen (with Celebrity but also in other places beyond cruising). My guess too, is that the "average" 250 lbs person is not 6'6"+ but rather closer to the 5'10" - 6' range (ie average height, above average weight), so while folks can always argue about the borderline cases, the rules are being set more for the more likely situations. If there is no policy, then accommodating ALL folks becomes a huge challenge for the tour operators. The "regulatory" and "safety" rules help with the things like helicopter and horseback rides, but the excursions beyond those become as much about shared customer experience as individual accommodation. That balance is always a difficult blend to get right. I'd much rather know ahead of time that a Celebrity excursion is NOT available for me, so that I could then look outside the ship's excursions for a tour that IS available for me. In general, we do that anyway - ie shop for non-Celebrity excursions - and we also usually get way more "direct" communications with the tour company allowing us to understand all the rules and all the tour details in general (far more in depth than the relatively basic details on the Celebrity site).

I personally have never found the beverage package to be "cost effective" but they are "mentally comforting". IOW, you're paying more for the relaxation of not caring or feeling "should I try..." sort of thing. The "free" coffee and tea and water is very good. And buying a random espresso based drink or a soda is going to be much less expensive than any package, but you sort of have to weigh what you want more - savings or pampering. We've done both but as Celebrity has evolved their pricing plans over the years, I'm less and less inclined to want/need a beverage package of any sort which is greatly simplified by Elite status happy hour (which is when I normally have a beer at home).

We were lucky enough to do our Alaskan cruise many years ago (2012) on the Millennium, and there was usually "only" us and one other ship in port per day the first week of June. Ketchikan (an early port) actually had both Millennium and Infinity in port plus a Carnival ship. My wife had already booked all our excursions ahead of time (mostly non-Celebrity ones) so at least we had no stress with that once it was done. What we found was that many ports were small and nearly wholly dependent on the tourism, and only the bigger spots of Anchorage (post cruise) and Juneau really easily accommodated the surge in tourists. So, even back then with just two and maybe a third ship in port and slightly early in the season, things were a bit full. A nice thing (and there were MANY nice things on that trip) was that many folks also didn't stray too far from the ship, so, in traditional cruising style we've seen in the Caribbean and in the Mediterranean, the farther you get from the dock (out of the perimeter of shops), the better. We learned a few things: - plan early and get things squared away; - accept the higher prices and do stuff despite feeling it's too much (we loved the sea plane flight over glaciers and the day with the sled dogs); - going from south (Vancouver start for us) to north (finish in Seward) was the best way to do it as every day on the cruise, the beauty was upped a notch from the prior day; - get moving early, and escape the gravitational pull of the ship(s) & dock area when you can; - be prepared for snow covered hiking trails (we weren't) and ice cold winds when viewing glaciers on the outside decks. We LOVED Alaska. Crowds or no crowds. And we're off to Norway this July for the fjords.

We do the Solstice HK->Singapore w/ Vietnam & Thailand cruise this coming December, so I am reading your review with excitement and taking notes 😄. Thanks for posting.

I've been seeing a bunch of questions lately (and going way back) regarding the pricing of the packages, the benefit of Classic vs Premium, and the need to pay attention and cancel/rebuy when a better sale comes along. I've never really dug to much into the pricing side of it and used to get it as part of the various package deals, but nowadays, as both an Elite and a light drinker (and a cheap guy), I have fallen into the "don't really want/need it" category. But I do like it when we have it, so I try to pay attention and will consider it when/if it makes sense for us again. But the pricing is what got me wondering about other cruise lines and what their drink packages run and how they compare. How does it stack up against other lines like RCL (identical?), or Princess or MSC or HAL or others in the general ballpark? If the same price, similar options/quality? If different, also different options & quality? Better or worse deals?