Why does the media only care when someone falls from a Carnival Ship?

[dan40]

Carnival has the highest number of 'overboards' because they EASILY carry the MOST passengers. But I'd guess the percentage to pax carried, is in line with other lines. They probably do get the most suicides. If a potential suicide has a rational thought, it would likely be to spend the least on their 'suicide' cruise. Or maybe they just want to die going off the "FUN SHIPS!"

HUNDREDS of suicides have traveled all the way across the country to jump [or fall] off the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco. Who knows what is going on inside their heads.

Reporters FIRST, LAST, and FOREMOST concern is getting the story published.

They no longer worry about any other facet. [like truth, accuracy, verification, silly things like that]

[Cuizer2]

That is not accurate. Carnival is not the largest cruise line. I don't know why people keep saying this.

 

Carnival carries 52,398 passengers.

 

Royal Caribbean carries 58,099 passengers.

 

Where did you get this information from? Is this the number of beds available on all the ships? I can assure you, both cruise lines carry a lot more than 60,000 passengers. Even Disney with only two ships carries more than 60,000 passengers.

[Cruzaholic41]

Carnival has the highest number of 'overboards' because they EASILY carry the MOST passengers.

 

As I pointed out earlier, no part of this is true.

 

I don't know why people keep confusing Carnival Cruise Line with it's parent company, Carnival Corp when it comes to the number of cruisers. Carnival Corp carries almost double the amount of the cruising public as the second largest carrier, Royal Caribbean Cruises, Ltd (RCCL). But, Royal Caribbean Cruise Line (RCI) carries more passengers than Carnival Cruise Line and is substantially larger in total gross tonnage.

 

The world's largest cruise line, RCI, has not had a man overboard in 2 years. Carnival has had 8 this year alone.

 

Once again, I am not saying one cruise line is better than the other. This has nothing to do with that. I am just correcting this myth that keeps getting posted.

 

Where did you get this information from? Is this the number of beds available on all the ships? I can assure you, both cruise lines carry a lot more than 60,000 passengers. Even Disney with only two ships carries more than 60,000 passengers.

 

The numbers I posted were the double occupancy stats of all the ships combined at any one time.

 

Disney's ships do not carry 30,000 passengers per ship.

[dan40]

As I pointed out earlier, no part of this is true.

 

I don't know why people keep confusing Carnival Cruise Line with it's parent company, Carnival Corp when it comes to the number of cruisers. Carnival Corp carries almost double the amount of the cruising public as the second largest carrier, Royal Caribbean Cruises, Ltd (RCCL). But, Royal Caribbean Cruise Line (RCI) carries more passengers than Carnival Cruise Line and is substantially larger in total gross tonnage.

 

The world's largest cruise line, RCI, has not had a man overboard in 2 years. Carnival has had 8 this year alone.

 

Once again, I am not saying one cruise line is better than the other. This has nothing to do with that. I am just correcting this myth that keeps getting posted.

 

 

 

The numbers I posted were the double occupancy stats of all the ships combined at any one time.

 

Disney's ships do not carry 30,000 passengers per ship.

 

 

Sorry but you are completely screwed up. Carnival BRANDED ships carry many more passengers than RCCL branded ships do. Some of the larger RCCL ships have a higher pax capacity than Carnival ships do, but Carnival carries more pax. And CCL carries many thousands more pax than RCL does. The gross tonnage of some RCCL ships is meaningless. Ships GRT is a measure of enclosed space where cargo could be carried, nothing more.

Spaces like the Royal Promenade that is 500 feet long X 50 feet wide X 5 decks high= a large empty space where cargo could be carried. Meaningless, but its there.

[Slimpickins]

hmmm nevermind

[Cuizer2]

The numbers I posted were the double occupancy stats of all the ships combined at any one time.

 

Disney's ships do not carry 30,000 passengers per ship.

 

So then, you are counting beds, not passengers. They are not the same. Carnival Cruise Line does carry more passengers (if less beds) then Royal Caribbean ...

 

http://www.carnival.com/CMS/Static_Templates/Carnival_Facts.aspx

 

http://www.royalcaribbean.com/ourCompany/pressCenter/pressReleases/info.do?prDate=01-29-2009&prCode=A

[Cruzaholic41]

Sorry but you are completely screwed up.

 

Why do you insist on using this insulting language? It does not help you get a point across any clearer. I am not doing that, so I respectfully request you do not either.

 

Look at this attachment. These are the numbers. If you can give exact numbers like this concerning full occupancy, please do so maturely. Even if CCL does come out with a few more beds, which I still don't think it will, it still does not support more than double the amount of persons going overboard than a cruise line that has just as many passengers or more.

[Maxiecat3]

Why do you insist on using this insulting language? It does not help you get a point across any clearer. I am not doing that, so I respectfully request you do not either.

 

Look at this attachment. These are the numbers. If you can give exact numbers like this concerning full occupancy, please do so maturely. Even if CCL does come out with a few more beds, which I still don't think it will, it still does not support more than double the amount of persons going overboard than a cruise line that has just as many passengers or more.

 

I have been watching this discussion for quite awhile and I would like to put in my .02 to see if I could clarify a few things. It seems that both sides could be correct. I have no doubt that Carnival probably carries more passengers during the year. There is also a good chance that RCI carries as many passengers if not more on a daily basis as they have as many if not more berths than Carnival. Is it possible for both of these statements to be true?? Without going through both cruise lines total schedule to see how many 3-4-5-7 etc days cruises each ship takes, it is possible that both statements could be true. If the numbers you quoted for berths is accurate, which I can not prove or disprove, then the total number of passengers at any given time will be very close to one another and then your point about the ratio would be correct.

 

Gregg

[Cuizer2]

Why do you insist on using this insulting language? It does not help you get a point across any clearer. I am not doing that, so I respectfully request you do not either.

 

Look at this attachment. These are the numbers. If you can give exact numbers like this concerning full occupancy, please do so maturely. Even if CCL does come out with a few more beds, which I still don't think it will, it still does not support more than double the amount of persons going overboard than a cruise line that has just as many passengers or more.

 

You are counting beds, not passengers.

[Cuizer2]

I have been watching this discussion for quite awhile and I would like to put in my .02 to see if I could clarify a few things. It seems that both sides could be correct. I have no doubt that Carnival probably carries more passengers during the year. There is also a good chance that RCI carries as many passengers if not more on a daily basis as they have as many if not more berths than Carnival. Is it possible for both of these statements to be true?? Without going through both cruise lines total schedule to see how many 3-4-5-7 etc days cruises each ship takes, it is possible that both statements could be true. If the numbers you quoted for berths is accurate, which I can not prove or disprove, then the total number of passengers at any given time will be very close to one another and then your point about the ratio would be correct.

 

Gregg

 

That is it. One ship carrying 3,000 passengers on a two weeks cruise carried just 3,000 passengers. One ship carrying 1,500 passengers on two five night cruises and one four night cruise carries 4,500 passengers.

 

On the other hand, in the same example, the one ship on the two week cruise carried 42,000 passenger days while the other ship carried only 21,000.

 

A ship with 1,500 cabins filled to 90% capacity is carrying 2,700 passengers. A ship with 1,250 cabins filled to 110% capacity (more than two per cabins) is carrying 2,750 passengers.

 

A ship with 3,000 beds filled to 90% capacity is carrying 2,700 passengers. A ship with 2,800 beds filled to 98% capacity is carrying 2,744 passengers.

 

Ships normally said at 103 - 105% capacity (computed at two per cabin).

 

The bottom line is, there are different ways of determining which cruise line is carrying more passengers. And there are different methods of determining which cruise line is bigger.

 

However, one cannot count the number of beds and then claim that has a relationship to the number of passengers carried.

[WinnieinWA]

I read somewhere that a lot of these are suicides and even couples commiting suicide together... that is stupid and selfish. How could they subject other passengers and especially kids to such a thing...

 

When I decide to off myself I want to be on a FUN ship!:eek::rolleyes:

[Maxiecat3]

That is it. One ship carrying 3,000 passengers on a two weeks cruise carried just 3,000 passengers. One ship carrying 1,500 passengers on two five night cruises and one four night cruise carries 4,500 passengers.

 

On the other hand, in the same example, the one ship on the two week cruise carried 42,000 passenger days while the other ship carried only 21,000.

 

A ship with 1,500 cabins filled to 90% capacity is carrying 2,700 passengers. A ship with 1,250 cabins filled to 110% capacity (more than two per cabins) is carrying 2,750 passengers.

 

A ship with 3,000 beds filled to 90% capacity is carrying 2,700 passengers. A ship with 2,800 beds filled to 98% capacity is carrying 2,744 passengers.

 

Ships normally said at 103 - 105% capacity (computed at two per cabin).

 

The bottom line is, there are different ways of determining which cruise line is carrying more passengers. And there are different methods of determining which cruise line is bigger.

 

However, one cannot count the number of beds and then claim that has a relationship to the number of passengers carried.

 

I was with you until your final sentence, unless I misunderstood how you meant it. It is like the biggest ship: Longest, heaviest or most passengers. There are different ways of looking at the same thing. Unless you meant it to mean on a yearly basis, then the number of berths does have a direct relationship with number of passengers on the day-to-day basis, because as you stated earlier in your post that ships normally sail at 103-105% capacity. If a ship has 3,000 berth based on D/O, then the number of passengers would generally be 3,090-3,150. To go to an extreme example, which both Carnival or RCI would be commiting suicide with, if RCI decided to only do 3 & 4 day cruise, in theory they would carry more passengers yearly that Carnival and if Carnival decided to do nothing but 7 day cruise, again RCI would carry more passengers and that would also be the same in reverse. I just hope that both companies prosper, no matter who carries the most passengers, as the competition will hopefully keep prices in check.

Gregg

[Cuizer2]

I was with you until your final sentence, unless I misunderstood how you meant it. It is like the biggest ship: Longest, heaviest or most passengers. There are different ways of looking at the same thing. Unless you meant it to mean on a yearly basis, then the number of berths does have a direct relationship with number of passengers on the day-to-day basis, because as you stated earlier in your post that ships normally sail at 103-105% capacity. If a ship has 3,000 berth based on D/O, then the number of passengers would generally be 3,090-3,150. To go to an extreme example, which both Carnival or RCI would be commiting suicide with, if RCI decided to only do 3 & 4 day cruise, in theory they would carry more passengers yearly that Carnival and if Carnival decided to do nothing but 7 day cruise, again RCI would carry more passengers and that would also be the same in reverse. I just hope that both companies prosper, no matter who carries the most passengers, as the competition will hopefully keep prices in check.

Gregg

 

But that is the point. The number of beds only has a relationship to the maximum number of passengers a ship can carry. If you throw in load factors, than yes, the number of beds, AND THE LOAD FACTOR, has a relationship to the number of passengers. However, I've seen school buses that can old 79 passenger carrying less than one dozen. The number seats does not determine the number of passengers. The number of seats, and the load factor does.

 

Ships cannot sail with more than 100% of the beds full. So you will not see ships sailing with 103% of the beds full.

 

The bottom line is statistics don't lie, but liars use statistics.

[halos]

.....................................

 

 

.......................................

 

was my thought exactly.

[Cruzaholic41]

Maxiecat3 - you make a very valid point....points that I do agree with. And yes, I do agree that there are many ways to say that one cruise line is bigger than another.

 

The topic is persons going overboard and I have gotten a lot of grief because I have pointed out that Carnival has the most people going over the side. Part of the argument from people flaming me is that Carnival Cruise Line carries so many more passengers, which would equal out the number of people going over compared to other cruise lines. I simply do not agree with this and the numbers do not support it.

 

My argument by bringing up the number of beds was to point out that at any one time, there is another cruise line that has just as many, or more passengers on their ships as Carnival, yet that line has not had a person go overboard in 2 years.

 

I'm not here to bash Carnival....I'm a cheerleader of cruising not individual cruise lines.

 

Just a clarification - Cuizer2 - are you calling me a liar? :confused:

[dan40]

Why do you insist on using this insulting language? It does not help you get a point across any clearer. I am not doing that, so I respectfully request you do not either.

 

Look at this attachment. These are the numbers. If you can give exact numbers like this concerning full occupancy, please do so maturely. Even if CCL does come out with a few more beds, which I still don't think it will, it still does not support more than double the amount of persons going overboard than a cruise line that has just as many passengers or more.

 

First, YOU in interject tonnage like it meant something. It does not. Next you list capacity at double occupancy. That is the number of LOWER BEDS on a ship. It is NOT an accurate reflection of the number of passengers. 3rd, 4th, and family cabin capacity is NOT in your number. Nor is the number of sailings. If a ship has 3500 lower beds [capacity at double occupancy] and it sails at 98% cap. then it has 3430 pax aboard. If it sails at 105% cap. [NORMAL for Carnival] then it has 3675 pax aboard.

If both lines sailed each ship ONCE a week at full capacity only, then your numbers would have meaning. But in reality, they DO NOT sail each ship once a week at full capacity.

You want to use lower bed count as meaningful. How about this, RCCL, X, and Az. ALL have fares from somewhat HIGHER to considerably higher than Carnival, Princess, and HAL. How is it with HIGHER prices that recently RCL corporation operates at a loss in recent quarters, while CCL BANKS hundreds of millions of profit dollars each quarter. And that is current events. In the past booming economy when RCL made a profit too, the quarterly comparison showed RCL quarterly gross take, to be very similar to CCL's NET Profit. And usually at least one quarter CCL would have a profit greater than RCL's total YEAR!

IF RCCL carries more pax, and we know they collect a higher fare, WHY are they losing money? YES the total Carnival Corporation carries more pax worldwide, but how do they make money at lower fares while RCL does NOT show a profit with higher fares. RCL's total profit should be less, but its profit per pax should be more. Yet it is not only not more per pax, it is a NET LOSS!

But that is not proof of the number of pax carried. It must prove something tho.

[Cruzaholic41]

First, YOU in interject tonnage like it meant something. It does not. Next you list capacity at double occupancy. That is the number of LOWER BEDS on a ship. It is NOT an accurate reflection of the number of passengers. 3rd, 4th, and family cabin capacity is NOT in your number. Nor is the number of sailings. If a ship has 3500 lower beds [capacity at double occupancy] and it sails at 98% cap. then it has 3430 pax aboard. If it sails at 105% cap. [NORMAL for Carnival] then it has 3675 pax aboard.

If both lines sailed each ship ONCE a week at full capacity only, then your numbers would have meaning. But in reality, they DO NOT sail each ship once a week at full capacity.

You want to use lower bed count as meaningful. How about this, RCCL, X, and Az. ALL have fares from somewhat HIGHER to considerably higher than Carnival, Princess, and HAL. How is it with HIGHER prices that recently RCL corporation operates at a loss in recent quarters, while CCL BANKS hundreds of millions of profit dollars each quarter. And that is current events. In the past booming economy when RCL made a profit too, the quarterly comparison showed RCL quarterly gross take, to be very similar to CCL's NET Profit. And usually at least one quarter CCL would have a profit greater than RCL's total YEAR!

IF RCCL carries more pax, and we know they collect a higher fare, WHY are they losing money? YES the total Carnival Corporation carries more pax worldwide, but how do they make money at lower fares while RCL does NOT show a profit with higher fares. RCL's total profit should be less, but its profit per pax should be more. Yet it is not only not more per pax, it is a NET LOSS!

But that is not proof of the number of pax carried. It must prove something tho.

 

The subject here is persons going overboard compared to the number of passengers on board.

 

Profits are a completely different subject that hinge on many more factors....like, perhaps, the two bohemeths RCI is building. But that's not the subject here.

 

And I'm sorry you didn't coorelate what I meant by mentioning gross tonnage. While Carnival has 2 more ships than RCI, all in all, RCI's ships are bigger and the line has more staterooms. It was a small point in a bigger subject. That's all.

 

BTW, every cruise I have been on...both Carnival and RCI have been full.

[TEXASMUNK]

then all these arguments are mute. Every ship that touches a US port is regulated by the USCG. Every one of those ships has a maximum SOB (including crew). That is the final and actual measurement. SOB: Souls OnBoard).

[dan40]

The subject here is persons going overboard compared to the number of passengers on board.

 

Profits are a completely different subject that hinge on many more factors....like, perhaps, the two bohemeths RCI is building. But that's not the subject here.

 

And I'm sorry you didn't coorelate what I meant by mentioning gross tonnage. While Carnival has 2 more ships than RCI, all in all, RCI's ships are bigger and the line has more staterooms. It was a small point in a bigger subject. That's all.

 

BTW, every cruise I have been on...both Carnival and RCI have been full.

 

Here are 2 Carnival and 2 RCCL ships same class for each line.

Splendor grt 113300 pax [do]3700

Freedom grt 110000 pax [do]3700

 

Voyager grt 137276 pax [do] 3844

Mariner grt 142000 pax [do] 3844

 

Each has different tonnage but the pax count is the same for each ship of each line. 3700 for both CCL's 3844 for both RCL"s Tonnage is no more of a factor than profits are.

 

And as far as idiots going overboard, the world would probably be a better place if the ship didn't slow down.

 

 

If you wish to not sail Carnival because of overboards [NONE ACCIDENTAL ON ANY LINE] then do not sail Carnival.

[CruiserChloe]

The topic is persons going overboard and I have gotten a lot of grief because I have pointed out that Carnival has the most people going over the side. Part of the argument from people flaming me is that Carnival Cruise Line carries so many more passengers, which would equal out the number of people going over compared to other cruise lines. I simply do not agree with this and the numbers do not support it.

 

Cruzaholic41, for what it is worth, I understand your point and I agree with you.

 

In reference to the OP's question, Carnival has gotten most of the media attention because it is Carnival ships that people have been falling off of lately (falling, jumping, or whatever you want to call it). That's just the undeniable fact.

 

Your original concern was satisfied by the fact the latest victim was hurt on an excursion ferry. However, the incident that got the most media attention was the groom that was lost from a Royal Caribbean ship a few years ago. If not mistaken, that incident was a game changer in ship security and bar policies.

[Cuizer2]

Maxiecat3 - you make a very valid point....points that I do agree with. And yes, I do agree that there are many ways to say that one cruise line is bigger than another.

 

The topic is persons going overboard and I have gotten a lot of grief because I have pointed out that Carnival has the most people going over the side. Part of the argument from people flaming me is that Carnival Cruise Line carries so many more passengers, which would equal out the number of people going over compared to other cruise lines. I simply do not agree with this and the numbers do not support it.

 

My argument by bringing up the number of beds was to point out that at any one time, there is another cruise line that has just as many, or more passengers on their ships as Carnival, yet that line has not had a person go overboard in 2 years.

 

I'm not here to bash Carnival....I'm a cheerleader of cruising not individual cruise lines.

 

Just a clarification - Cuizer2 - are you calling me a liar? :confused:

 

No, I am not calling you a liar. If you want to claim that Carnival statistically has more people "falling" off its ships then other ships, fine say so. But don't count beds and then claim that Royal Caribbean carries more passengers than Carnival. A bed is not a person.

[Kurbanfan]

However, the incident that got the most media attention was the groom that was lost from a Royal Caribbean ship a few years ago. If not mistaken, that incident was a game changer in ship security and bar policies.

 

Actually I think the game changed after 21 year old Daniel DiPiero who they caught falling over on secruity cameras on the Mariner in 2006........

[Cuizer2]

Here are 2 Carnival and 2 RCCL ships same class for each line.

Splendor grt 113300 pax [do]3700

Freedom grt 110000 pax [do]3700

 

Voyager grt 137276 pax [do] 3844

Mariner grt 142000 pax [do] 3844

 

Each has different tonnage but the pax count is the same for each ship of each line. 3700 for both CCL's 3844 for both RCL"s Tonnage is no more of a factor than profits are.

 

And as far as idiots going overboard, the world would probably be a better place if the ship didn't slow down.

 

 

If you wish to not sail Carnival because of overboards [NONE ACCIDENTAL ON ANY LINE] then do not sail Carnival.

 

If "do" = double occupancy, then your figures are not correct. The Voyager class (Voyager and Mariner) have 1557 cabins. Thus double occupancy is 3,114. The Carnival Splendor and Carnival Freedom both carry 2,974 at double occupancy.

 

Of course if "do" does not equal double occupancy then ignore this post.

 

Also, if someone is doing something "stupid" and falls overboard, that is in fact an accident. Only someone who jumps would not be considered an accident.

[dan40]

If "do" = double occupancy, then your figures are not correct. The Voyager class (Voyager and Mariner) have 1557 cabins. Thus double occupancy is 3,114. The Carnival Splendor and Carnival Freedom both carry 2,974 at double occupancy.

 

Of course if "do" does not equal double occupancy then ignore this post.

 

Also, if someone is doing something "stupid" and falls overboard, that is in fact an accident. Only someone who jumps would not be considered an accident.

 

 

Figures according to Crews deck plans [sic] do, double occupancy assumed by me.

 

 

I do not differentiate between "stupid" accidents, and "smart" accidents.

There are no cases when a known, SOBER, non-suicidal person has ever gone overboard on any cruise ship. Logic says that a 'real', inadvertent accident would most likely be a child. NO CHILD over board, any cruiseship, EVER. Youngest to go over was a 15 yr.old girl. Known to be VERY drunk on 'smuggled booze.'

[Cuizer2]

Figures according to Crews deck plans [sic] do, double occupancy assumed by me.

 

 

I do not differentiate between "stupid" accidents, and "smart" accidents.

There are no cases when a known, SOBER, non-suicidal person has ever gone overboard on any cruise ship. Logic says that a 'real', inadvertent accident would most likely be a child. NO CHILD over board, any cruiseship, EVER. Youngest to go over was a 15 yr.old girl. Known to be VERY drunk on 'smuggled booze.'

 

Whether the accident was stupid or smart, it is still an accident. Jumping would not be an accident. 15 years old is a child.