Why does the media only care when someone falls from a Carnival Ship?

[CruiserChloe]

NO CHILD over board, any cruiseship, EVER. Youngest to go over was a 15 yr.old girl. Known to be VERY drunk on 'smuggled booze.'

 

A 15 year old is a child.

[dan40]

A 15 year old is a child.

 

 

First, a drunken 15 yr old is/WAS an idiot, that was likely raised by other idiots.

And secondly, READ THE STORY, she jumped. NOT AN ACCIDENT.

 

So it remains, NO accidental overboards by ANY children, any cruiseline, EVER.

And since the MOST accident prone group has never, ever had an "overboard accident", the most 'bleeding' of the 'bleeding hearts' should find a lesson there about the supposed accidents perpetrated by "adults."

[Cuizer2]

First, a drunken 15 yr old is/WAS an idiot,

 

A drunken 15 year old idiot is still a child.

[dan40]

A drunken 15 year old idiot is still a child.

 

And this drunken sot of a poorly raised "child" INTENTIONALLY JUMPED. So there was no accident, or do you only read the words you find convenient to you? And in many cultures around the globe, 15 is not a child. That aside, the fact remains, NO CHILD ACCIDENTALLY OVERBOARD ON ANY CRUISE SHIP ANYWHERE.

[Cruzaholic41]

And this drunken sot of a poorly raised "child" INTENTIONALLY JUMPED. So there was no accident, or do you only read the words you find convenient to you? And in many cultures around the globe, 15 is not a child. That aside, the fact remains, NO CHILD ACCIDENTALLY OVERBOARD ON ANY CRUISE SHIP ANYWHERE.

 

So, this child is "poorly raised" because she and her 16 year old friend did not spend every single minute of the cruise with the parents? This child was "poorly raised" because the ships bartenders served alcohol to 15 and 16 year old girls...not only served, but served to the point of inebriation? You see no responsibility on the part of Costa's bartenders? You don't think this child would still be alive if not for certain actions by the ship's crew? Just because a child decides to jump does not mean that there weren't actions taken beforehand by the cruise line to severely impair her judgement.

 

"Poorly Raised?" That's a cop out. A child is dead and Carnival Corp and Costa are liable. Yet, all you can do is blame the parents. That's just crappy.

[Pegs222]

So, this child is "poorly raised" because she and her 16 year old friend did not spend every single minute of the cruise with the parents? This child was "poorly raised" because the ships bartenders served alcohol to 15 and 16 year old girls...not only served, but served to the point of inebriation? You see no responsibility on the part of Costa's bartenders? You don't think this child would still be alive if not for certain actions by the ship's crew? Just because a child decides to jump does not mean that there weren't actions taken beforehand by the cruise line to severely impair her judgement.

 

"Poorly Raised?" That's a cop out. A child is dead and Carnival Corp and Costa are liable. Yet, all you can do is blame the parents. That's just crappy.

 

Have to agree with Dan on this one, the parents are totally to blame. Where were they? Why was this 15 year old allowed to do something that they should not have been doing? Why did the parents not know where their 15 year old was? This could not have been the first time the 15 year old was drinking. This is a horrible thing to happen to a 15 year old, but the parents have to take responsibility for it. They are in charge of this minor child and should have known where their child was. Should the bar tender not have served her, of course, but in the scheme of things the parents are responsible for not knowing where their child was.

[Cruzaholic41]

[/b]

 

Have to agree with Dan on this one, the parents are totally to blame. Where were they? Why was this 15 year old allowed to do something that they should not have been doing? Why did the parents not know where their 15 year old was? This could not have been the first time the 15 year old was drinking. This is a horrible thing to happen to a 15 year old, but the parents have to take responsibility for it. They are in charge of this minor child and should have known where their child was. Should the bar tender not have served her, of course, but in the scheme of things the parents are responsible for not knowing where their child was.

 

Two points. Teenagers on cruises do not spend every second with their parents, so the "Where were they" does not fly with me.

 

Second, you, yourself, said the bartenders should not have served her.

 

I'm not saying the parents had no responsibility whatsoever. I'm arguing the point that dan keeps saying this child was "poorly raised."

[Pegs222]

Two points. Teenagers on cruises do not spend every second with their parents, so the "Where were they" does not fly with me.

Second, you, yourself, said the bartenders should not have served her.

 

I'm not saying the parents had no responsibility whatsoever. I'm arguing the point that dan keeps saying this child was "poorly raised."

 

I wonder how you as a parent would feel if your teenager was missing and they were found later to have died. You can not tell me that you would not feel totally responsible. We are given these children to take care of and the parents of this child did not do their job. They should have known that a 15 year can not be trusted to be on a large ship and do anything they want. Again I say, this was not the first time this 15 year old had drank.

[dan40]

So, this child is "poorly raised" because she and her 16 year old friend did not spend every single minute of the cruise with the parents? This child was "poorly raised" because the ships bartenders served alcohol to 15 and 16 year old girls...not only served, but served to the point of inebriation? You see no responsibility on the part of Costa's bartenders? You don't think this child would still be alive if not for certain actions by the ship's crew? Just because a child decides to jump does not mean that there weren't actions taken beforehand by the cruise line to severely impair her judgement.

 

"Poorly Raised?" That's a cop out. A child is dead and Carnival Corp and Costa are liable. Yet, all you can do is blame the parents. That's just crappy.

 

Have you read the story at all? There is NO claim that any bartender served her. She was drunk on the "smuggled booze" that so many on this board think is harmless. And who is responsible for her smuggling booze if not the parent. Inattention or permissiveness, its still the parent.

[Cuizer2]

And this drunken sot of a poorly raised "child" INTENTIONALLY JUMPED. So there was no accident, or do you only read the words you find convenient to you? And in many cultures around the globe, 15 is not a child. That aside, the fact remains, NO CHILD ACCIDENTALLY OVERBOARD ON ANY CRUISE SHIP ANYWHERE.

Many cultures around the world do a lot of things differently than in the US. Nonetheless, you and I are both US citizens living in the US and thus subject to the US laws. And here in the US a fifteen year old that was poorly raised is still a child.

 

Children are not held to the same standard as an adult. And a drunk, especially a fifteen year old drunk, is in no position to fully understand the ramifications of her actions. Therefore one has to wonder if she would have taken the same action had she been sober. Thus it could have been an accident.

[dan40]

Many cultures around the world do a lot of things differently than in the US. Nonetheless, you and I are both US citizens living in the US and thus subject to the US laws. And here in the US a fifteen year old that was poorly raised is still a child.

 

Children are not held to the same standard as an adult. And a drunk, especially a fifteen year old drunk, is in no position to fully understand the ramifications of her actions. Therefore one has to wonder if she would have taken the same action had she been sober. Thus it could have been an accident.

 

 

Enjoy your Utopian dreamland. Real life comes with consequences, she's DEAD! She did not accidentally get terminally stupid. She did not accidentally drink too much booze.[At her age 0 is the proper amount]

She suffered the consequences of her own actions. It was not an accident, if calling it drunken stupidity will make you feel better, go with that. ACCIDENT is off the table.

[Payd]

Tender, Ferry...same difference...both float..and I didnt say anything about the "boat" being associated with a cruise line

 

I said it once and I will say it again. I misread the story, shouldnt have started this thread...I guess you can shoot me now.

 

No need to shoot you.

 

Some people just don't seem to be able to read through the thread.

 

It is a very sad story though!

[Cuizer2]

ACCIDENT is off the table.

Right. If accident was still on the table, there would be no incident at all. Leaving your drink on the table is not an accident. Knocking it off the table is.

 

Seriously - here is the definition of "accident". Note that the definition includes unintended consequences from "carelessness or ignorance". The fact is, that if someone gets drunk, and does not understand the consequences of their action or actions, then any injury or death resulting from said action or actions is in fact an accident.

 

• Main Entry: ac·ci·dent
  
• Pronunciation: \ˈak-sə-dənt, -ˌdent; ˈaks-dənt\
  
• Function: noun
  
• Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin accident-, accidens nonessential quality, chance, from present participle of accidere to happen, from ad- + cadere to fall — more at chance
  
• Date: 14th century
  

1 a : an unforeseen and unplanned event or circumstance b : lack of intention or necessity : chance <met by accident rather than by design>

2 a : an unfortunate event resulting especially from carelessness or ignorance b : an unexpected and medically important bodily event especially when injurious <a cerebrovascular accident> c : an unexpected happening causing loss or injury which is not due to any fault or misconduct on the part of the person injured but for which legal relief may be sought d —used euphemistically to refer to an involuntary act or instance of urination or defecation

3 : a nonessential property or quality of an entity or circumstance <the accident of nationality>

[dan40]

Right. If accident was still on the table, there would be no incident at all. Leaving your drink on the table is not an accident. Knocking it off the table is.

 

Seriously - here is the definition of "accident". Note that the definition includes unintended consequences from "carelessness or ignorance". The fact is, that if someone gets drunk, and does not understand the consequences of their action or actions, then any injury or death resulting from said action or actions is in fact an accident.

 

• Main Entry: ac·ci·dent
  
• Pronunciation: \ˈak-sə-dənt, -ˌdent; ˈaks-dənt\
  
• Function: noun
  
• Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin accident-, accidens nonessential quality, chance, from present participle of accidere to happen, from ad- + cadere to fall — more at chance
  
• Date: 14th century
  

1 a : an unforeseen and unplanned event or circumstance b : lack of intention or necessity : chance <met by accident rather than by design>

2 a : an unfortunate event resulting especially from carelessness or ignorance b : an unexpected and medically important bodily event especially when injurious <a cerebrovascular accident> c : an unexpected happening causing loss or injury which is not due to any fault or misconduct on the part of the person injured but for which legal relief may be sought d —used euphemistically to refer to an involuntary act or instance of urination or defecation

3 : a nonessential property or quality of an entity or circumstance <the accident of nationality>

 

 

an unforeseen and unplanned JUMP?

 

I rest my case.

[Cuizer2]

an unforeseen and unplanned JUMP?

 

I rest my case.

 

If the person was too drunk to understand the consequences of their action, which is very likely when referring to a fifteen year old child, then yes, that is in fact an accident. It is no different then an auto accident that results in injury or death as a result of a drunk driver.

 

A death following a jump may in fact be an accident. It depends on whether or not the person understood the consequences of their actions. To accept your view of things, a drunk fifteen year old would have to understand the consequences of her actions. That is a pretty far stretch.

[dan40]

If the person was too drunk to understand the consequences of their action, which is very likely when referring to a fifteen year old child, then yes, that is in fact an accident. It is no different then an auto accident that results in injury or death as a result of a drunk driver.

 

A death following a jump may in fact be an accident. It depends on whether or not the person understood the consequences of their actions. To accept your view of things, a drunk fifteen year old would have to understand the consequences of her actions. That is a pretty far stretch.

 

 

Well I have to admit that the stretch of your rationalization is endless. Contrary to accuracy and nature, but endless wishfulness.

 

She IS dead, 100% as a result of her own actions.

Your rationalization is like saying you are on this board and thread by accident. You intended to click on the link to here. You saw the link to here and you put your cursor on the link and then 'accidentally' clicked on it. Humorous, but incorrect.

[Cruzaholic41]

Well I have to admit that the stretch of your rationalization is endless. Contrary to accuracy and nature, but endless wishfulness.

 

Anything that has a slight chance of being 1% the fault of anything Carnival is "irrational" to you. :rolleyes:

 

Never mind that a Carnival Corp ship served alcohol to a 15 year old.

 

Sad.

[Cuizer2]

Well I have to admit that the stretch of your rationalization is endless. Contrary to accuracy and nature, but endless wishfulness.

 

She IS dead, 100% as a result of her own actions.

Your rationalization is like saying you are on this board and thread by accident. You intended to click on the link to here. You saw the link to here and you put your cursor on the link and then 'accidentally' clicked on it. Humorous, but incorrect.

 

I am not drunk and I am of legal drinking age. I am not here by accident. Perhaps her drinking was no accident, but unless she intended to kill herself, her actions after she became drunk are an accident. Again I refer you to the definition of an accident. It leads to unintended consequences. Someone may intentionally run a red light, but that does not mean that they intended to cause an accident. How about the ships that hit the pier and get damaged. Are you claiming that because the caption intentionally tried to get close to the pier that the captain intended to damage to the ship?

 

How about when the Andrea Doria collided with the Stockholm. Each Captain purposely steered the ship in the direction the ship was going. Are you now claiming that the two captains intentionally tried to hit each other?

 

How about the collision of the two 747s on Tenerife. The Pam Am captain intentionally taxied up the runway. The KLM captain intentionally began his takeoff roll. Are you now claiming the collision of the two jets was an intentional act by both captains?

[janetz]

Wow this thread really went off topic. My two cents. The teens come onboard and find other teens to hang with. Some in turn hang with 21 year olds or have them get the alcohol. These kids have ways to drink onboard,not being served by the staff. Parents bring it on. 18 year olds go into port, by it, pour it into their water bottles and bring it on. Believe me, its done. Its is not hard for the kids to get hold of alcohol from their peers. I would think anyone that "falls" off a ship is climbing or playing around on the railing, drunk or not. Or they intentionally jump. You can NOT just fall off the ship.

Here is a site that has a few stats. Happens on almost every cruiseline.

 

http://www.internationalcruisevictims.org/

[Pegs222]

Anything that has a slight chance of being 1% the fault of anything Carnival is "irrational" to you. :rolleyes:

 

Never mind that a Carnival Corp ship served alcohol to a 15 year old.

 

Sad.

 

There is no way a ship can serve alcohol, it is a ship, and therefor unable to serve anything much less alcohol to anyone much less a 15 year old. :rolleyes:

 

A Carnival employee did not serve the 15 year old her alcohol, she probably got it from smuggled booze brought on by her, her friends or her parents.

 

The parents are totally to blame what happened to their daughter. They did not know where she was or what she was doing, and because of that their daughter died. They are going to have to live with this for the rest of their lives.

[DocJohnB]

There is no way a ship can serve alcohol, it is a ship, and therefor unable to serve anything much less alcohol to anyone much less a 15 year old. :rolleyes:

 

psssst. I think they mean the ship as a total entity. OF COURSE a ship can't serve a drink.

 

A Carnival employee did not serve the 15 year old her alcohol, she probably got it from smuggled booze brought on by her, her friends or her parents.

 

And, you received this information where? It is just too easy to blame it on smuggled booze. Of course it happens, but so does getting served by cruise staff.

 

This was indeed a tragic happening. Of course the parents have some (or a lot of) blame, but I believe there is plenty of that to be spread around, including anybody who supplied the girl alcohol be they cruise staff or other passengers. And of course, some of the blame HAS to lie with the young girl.

[Pegs222]

psssst. I think they mean the ship as a total entity. OF COURSE a ship can't serve a drink.

 

 

 

And, you received this information where? It is just too easy to blame it on smuggled booze. Of course it happens, but so does getting served by cruise staff.

 

This was indeed a tragic happening. Of course the parents have some (or a lot of) blame, but I believe there is plenty of that to be spread around, including anybody who supplied the girl alcohol be they cruise staff or other passengers. And of course, some of the blame HAS to lie with the young girl.

 

When I saw your screen name I thought oh my, my doctor is here :confused:. His name is John B......, MD and we have always called him Dr. B.

 

Not that any blame should not fall on the young girl, but that was what she was, an immature young girl that had no idea what she was doing or how dangerous it can be to drink.

 

Even with everything out there about the dangers of alcohol why do we still see so many teenagers still drinking and taking risks that they would never do if they were not drinking?

[picklebongo]

psssst. I think they mean the ship as a total entity. OF COURSE a ship can't serve a drink.

 

 

 

And, you received this information where? It is just too easy to blame it on smuggled booze. Of course it happens, but so does getting served by cruise staff.

 

This was indeed a tragic happening. Of course the parents have some (or a lot of) blame, but I believe there is plenty of that to be spread around, including anybody who supplied the girl alcohol be they cruise staff or other passengers. And of course, some of the blame HAS to lie with the young girl.

 

Your comment about a ship not being able to serve alcohol gave me my first chuckle of the morning, thanks. Surprising to have the state the so very obvious isn't it.

[janetz]

So where are the 15 and 16 year old kids onboard? The teen club. At night they have the teen disco, and other activities where the kids hang. At that age they can come and go as they please. Do you think any parents are there? When they tell their parents that is where they will be that is where the parents believe they are. Rarely are teens with their parents, they are with their new found friends. You can't just blame the parents without knowing the details.

[dan40]

I am not drunk and I am of legal drinking age. I am not here by accident. Perhaps her drinking was no accident, but unless she intended to kill herself, her actions after she became drunk are an accident. Again I refer you to the definition of an accident. It leads to unintended consequences. Someone may intentionally run a red light, but that does not mean that they intended to cause an accident. How about the ships that hit the pier and get damaged. Are you claiming that because the caption intentionally tried to get close to the pier that the captain intended to damage to the ship?

 

How about when the Andrea Doria collided with the Stockholm. Each Captain purposely steered the ship in the direction the ship was going. Are you now claiming that the two captains intentionally tried to hit each other?

 

How about the collision of the two 747s on Tenerife. The Pam Am captain intentionally taxied up the runway. The KLM captain intentionally began his takeoff roll. Are you now claiming the collision of the two jets was an intentional act by both captains?

 

The 2 Sea and air Captains were EACH acting in the most responsible manner. Any deviations from their actions and neither accident would have happened. The girl was not in concert with the actions of another that could or could not have led to an accident. She was acting INTENTIONALLY, on her own.

A vast difference from your scenarios of ACTUAL accidents.

 

The strong survive, the weak perish. Applies to animals, businesses, and humans. And your bleeding heart wishful thinking will not change nature.

 

The girl killed HERSELF. End of story, and I'm off as I am bored to suicide:rolleyes: over your Utopian dreams of a perfect world. IT AIN'T.