Flight questions from a novice

[mark&christa]

Hello, I dont fly very often and have few questions. I just booked a non stopflight from Manchester NH to Tampa Fl. The flight south is 4hours 35 minutes, the flight north is only 4 hours what causes the time difference. My other question is the departure and arrival times. Does this refer to the time the plane takesoff and lands or the time at the gates closes and the tim you arrive at gate. Thanks for your help and time.

[Budget Queen]

Wind currents. But this is not a given. Can also be depending on aircraft.

 

The times are from departure to touch down, and do not include any "airport" time.

[AirGorilla]

Winds impact the length of flights. Westbound flights typically are booked for longer flight times than eastbound flights, due to winds blowing from the west.

 

The posted times refer to when the aircraft pushes back from the gate, and when it arrives at the gates.

 

Enjoy,

AG

[FlyerTalker]

The times are from departure to touch down, and do not include any "airport" time.

 

Nope.

 

If you are referring to published "times" (such as on your ticket or website schedule), that's gate pushback to gate arrival. If you hear the flight deck crew state "flying time will be X hours and Y minutes" over the PA, that's the actual flying time from takeoff to touchdown.

 

Many times there is a BIG difference between the two -- if you are in the evening "lineup" at JFK or ATL, you'll wonder about that....until you are still sitting there after 30+ minutes waiting for your takeoff turn.

[steve20832]

Times listed are from gate to gate. Not takeoff and landing. As far as why the extra 35 minutes on the return flight. This is due to many reasons. Weather being the most common. If your flight is in the summer months to Tampa and lands before 1pm or after 6pm, there is a less chance of thunderstorms so the time would be less hours. If it takes off between 1pm and 6pm, there is a high change of weather delays so it is built into system. During the cooler months (Dec-April there is rarely thunderstorms in Florida.) Wind patterns also affect flight times but not 35 minutes if you stay in the same time zone. Another reason is whatever time your flight takes off could be a busy part of the day for the airport and if the airline knows there are 10 planes queued up at the runways to take off during your departure time, they add time for that delay.

[6rugrats]

Based on my flying experience this year, a monkey throws darts at a board with times on it, and the winning number is assigned accordingly.

[O_George]

Hello, I dont fly very often and have few questions. I just booked a non stopflight from Manchester NH to Tampa Fl. The flight south is 4hours 35 minutes, the flight north is only 4 hours what causes the time difference. My other question is the departure and arrival times. Does this refer to the time the plane takesoff and lands or the time at the gates closes and the tim you arrive at gate. Thanks for your help and time.

 

Once the pilot comes over the PA and announces that you are getting ready for take off that's when you begin measuring the time at least in the air. But landing can be another long experience because the airport could be backed up with flights so your plane could circle for a time period. The flight times are just guestestimates nowadays of when you might take off and land.

[Globaliser]

Let's just say it again to avoid any confusion.

 

The departure and arrival times published in the airline's timetable and on your itinerary refer to:-

• The time at which the aircraft is scheduled to be pushed back from the gate on departure; and
• The time at which the aircraft is scheduled to park at the gate when it arrives.

The scheduled time for the flight is always longer than the usual flying time, because it includes all the time on the ground at the airports at either end of the flight.

[vjmatty]

The scheduled time for the flight is always longer than the usual flying time, because it includes all the time on the ground at the airports at either end of the flight.

 

I used to always wonder about that.... especially when there is a delay and the pilot says "we will make it up in the air"...... well, if they could make it up in the air why schedule such a long flight in the first place? ;)

[jasmith52]

Airports require approaches from one and only one general direction.

 

Therefore if the airport wants all flights to approach from the north and your flight is coming from the south... there will be extra time to head north and circle back. I would ballpark your extar cicleback time at around 35 minutes.

[Globaliser]

I used to always wonder about that.... especially when there is a delay and the pilot says "we will make it up in the air"...... well, if they could make it up in the air why schedule such a long flight in the first place?

Because sometimes you can't make it up in the air.

 

jasmith52 gives one reason (although I don't agree that that's as long as 35 minutes; at most airports it's more like 15 because it fundamentally consists of flying beyond the airport for 10-15 miles, turning around and then flying those 10-15 miles back again).

 

Another reason is that on those occasions when the flight makes it up in the air, that's because the winds are favourable. Remember that winds aloft at cruising altitude can often be blowing at well over 100 mph, and that can make a great deal of difference if it's a direct tailwind or a direct headwind. In fact, if you have a particularly strong direct headwind, it can sometimes be enough to force the aircraft to have to land short of the destination to take on extra fuel.

 

So if the pilots tell you that they can make it up in the air, that's probably because you're lucky enough to be able to do so that day. On another day, you'd just be delayed and they'd say nothing of the sort.

 

Airlines have a commercial incentive to schedule their flights for the shortest realistic gate-to-gate time. Flights with longer scheduled times fall further down the list presented on booking displays and also look less attractive, and they reduce the number of legal connections that can be made at the destination airport. But if the airline publishes unrealistic schedules, it plummets down the list for on-time performance. So you can be assured that in the case of most airlines, flight times are not artificially padded beyond a realistic estimate (based on long experience) of the likely gate-to-gate times that the flight will deliver.

 

One notable exception to this is Southwest, which doesn't have quite the same incentives to keep published schedule times short because they don't compete on selling displays and they don't offer interline connections. In candid moments, they will admit to deliberately padding their schedules a bit more than they really need to, so that their fabled planned turnaround performance (which they can deliver, if they really must) is in practice seldom called upon in quite the same way.

[vjmatty]

Oh I figured there was good reason for it and my comment was a bit tongue in cheek, but I appreciate your explanation Globaliser because it does make a lot of sense.... and takes many things into account that I didn't realize the airlines were thinking about from a pax POV.

[Eemrald]

 

One notable exception to this is Southwest, which doesn't have quite the same incentives to keep published schedule times short because they don't compete on selling displays and they don't offer interline connections. In candid moments, they will admit to deliberately padding their schedules a bit more than they really need to, so that their fabled planned turnaround performance (which they can deliver, if they really must) is in practice seldom called upon in quite the same way.

 

This opinion is flawed. Southwest prides itself in ontime performance and are the masters of the 25 minute turn, which we successfully complete many, many times a day. ;)

[Globaliser]

This opinion is flawed. Southwest prides itself in ontime performance and are the masters of the 25 minute turn, which we successfully complete many, many times a day.

Sorry, this isn't opinion. It's what Southwest has said itself.

 

The fabled 25-minute turn is entirely feasible, and Southwest can do it like clockwork - as I said in my last post.

 

But Southwest pads its schedules a little more than most other airlines, because it doesn't have the same commercial disincentive to do that. The effect of that is - quite deliberately - that most turns are 10 to 15 minutes longer than the 25 minutes scheduled, so they're actually a little more leisurely and a little more reliable, so there are fewer recorded departure delays. The practice also has the benefit that more Southwest flights appear to arrive early, boosting apparent on-time performance.

 

This is all information that comes directly from Southwest, although it likes to keep it in the trade press and not in plain public view.

[Eemrald]

I won't debate it with you and I'm sure there are analysts who have opionions in the trade magazines that may be mistaken for SW representatives, but as a flight attendant for SW I've not experienced the "padding" you mention.

 

In fact we strive to push on time, if we do not the "blame" for leaving the gate late is assigned to the work group that may have caused it and not one of our work groups wants to be the one who caused the late push.

 

Do we have instances where we don't leave the gate on time, absolutely. But the schedule I receives shows our time at the gate and I can tell you that it's extremely accurate.

[Globaliser]

In fact we strive to push on time

...

Do we have instances where we don't leave the gate on time, absolutely.

I'm not sure you're reading what I'm writing.

 

Let's try this again:-

• Southwest has very good on time performance.
• Its flights are very good at departing on schedule.
• This is because the inbound flights often arrive ahead of schedule.
• This ahead-of-schedule arrival performance is achieved by padding the schedule more than other airlines do; flights generally take rather less time than the schedule says they will.
• Southwest can afford to do this because it does not experience quite the same commerical pressures to publish short scheduled flight times as other airlines do.
• Consequently, although the schedules often provide for a 25-minute turn, most turns can actually take something like 10 to 15 minutes longer without making the departing flight late, because the inbound aircraft has arrived early.

This has nothing to do with analysts or their opinions. This has been directly stated by named Southwest people when interviewed by the trade press.

[Eemrald]

I'm reading what you are typing, I am just not seeing that when I work. ;)

 

You say that SW reps are saying it (I'd love a link to an article), but when I work I'm not see that padding.

 

:)

[FlyerTalker]

This opinion is flawed. Southwest prides itself in ontime performance and are the masters of the 25 minute turn, which we successfully complete many, many times a day. ;)

 

I'm reading what you are typing, I am just not seeing that when I work. ;)

 

Getting the Kool-Aid straight from the WN company fountain??

 

So, let's see....your flights must NEVER be arriving early. Or they sometimes do, but it's ALWAYS because of extraordinary flight conditions that make for shorter in-flight timings.

 

WN admits things to the trade, but why bother telling the staff or pax. Neither will understand.