CURT: To pleat or not to pleat????

[Soxfan05]

Curt, what is the deal with pleated pants and men/boys?

 

1. Are they more formal?

2. Are they old fashioned and for a more mature man?

3.Should all "dress" pants be pleated?

4. Should all khakis only be flat front?

5. How does fabric come into play in regard to what is considered an appropriate pant/shirt combination for an event (in this case a school dance where the suggested dress is: khakis, button down and tie).

 

What look would you consider semi-formal and what is a step up from casual but not quite semi formal?

[lel5344]

Much depends on the actual cut of the pants.

 

Our (I work for Jos. A. Bank) plain front dress pants are rather trim through the hips and thighs and have a vertical pocket cut on the side seam. As a result, we find that men who work out, especially those who run or bike, are likely to develop what I call "pocket bulge". Pleated front pants can eliminate this problem on many men.

 

However, from a different perspective, it can depend on where a man wears his pants. If he wears them at his waist (and doesn't have pocket bulge) the choice is his. Some like the more "formal" look of pleated pants, cuffed. Some prefer plain front, uncuffed. But if a man wears his pants below his natural waistline, pleated pants will more likely balloon.

 

There are other options, including tailored fit, but to me, the most important thing is that a man likes the way his pants fit and how comfortable he is.

 

Please note, Jos. A. Bank is a very traditional men's clothier and we might not correspond with more trendy looks.

[Soxfan05]

Thanks for the insight.

[mcalvey187]

For what it is worth, I am a fairly young guy (25), in moderate shape. I agree with what the above poster responded. I personally prefer flat front pants, I find that even for a moderate sized guy, pleats tend to "swallow" my legs. However, it is entirely up to the person wearing the pants. Pleated pants are no more or less formal than flat front pants.

[mcalvey187]

Regarding the second question, I would regard semi-formal as AT LEAST a tie. Personally, I would wear a jacket, as I hate the look of a tie with no jacket, but for a SCHOOL dance (which skews younger), I would assume a tie is sufficient.

 

I personally think of flat-front when I think of khakis, but this is not necessarily a rule...

[cb at sea]

Flat front does have a 'cleaner' look than pleats.

[Hoyaheel]

My husband (41) prefers flat front as they suit his build better. He feels that pleats look too baggy and sloppy and he dislikes that look. I've been able to find him lovely flat front pants at all formality levels - from athletic to casual to suit/tie to tuxedo.

[Curt Jerome Wild]

Curt, what is the deal with pleated pants and men/boys?

They there! Let me get to them one at a time, but in general lel5344 has given good general advice. We generally agree, although Jos A. Bank is conservative, and not as "young" or "fashion forward" as I lean for young people. That being said, here we go...

1. Are they more formal?

In a word - No - with exception...

A pure classic traditional tuxedo will have one pleat in the pants. Tuxedos with two pleats in the pants is leftover from the eighties and has nothing to do with "formal". One pleat is tuxedo pants is the one and only time that a pleat is actually "formal/traditional". But even now, several companies (including Jos A. Bank) are making and offering flat front tuxedo pants.

See? Even in Formalwear, Flat Front Pants look pretty good, huh?

2. Are they old fashioned and for a more mature man?

They are absolutely old fashioned. The only times that pleats were "fashion", were in the 1600s, Zoot Suits, and the 1980s. All of those are old fashioned now! They are "for more mature men" currently, as the men who mostly wear them now, are used to them from the 80s.

So, they are definitely associated with older men. Note that most of the pants that "older men" would wear have pleats, and these are really geared to the target market of men 45 or older.

Any young man who doesn't want to look like his grandpa, should never wear pleated pants (especially casual/Docker/Khaki) today.

See? These are his grandpa's pants. Don't get these!

3.Should all "dress" pants be pleated?

Absolutely not! In this day and age, the flat front dress pants visually look neater, cleaner, and less sloppy than pleated dress pants. So, to my eye, flat front pants look not only cooler, but actually dressier than pleated pants. Let's give you a chance to judge for yourself...

Look at pleated dress pants here vs. flat front dress pants:

See how much excess fabric you get with the pleated pants?

The flat front pants, just look neater, and dressier to me.

There are still too many stores out there, selling the same pleated pants patterns from 25 years ago!

4. Should all khakis only be flat front?

In order to not look like grandpa, or computer nerds - then Khaki's especially should be flat front. It really makes a difference.

Flat front khakis. Flat front khakis. Flat front khakis.

These look much nicer than the grandpa khakis, don't you think?

[Curt Jerome Wild]

5. How does fabric come into play in regard to what is considered an appropriate pant/shirt combination for an event (in this case a school dance where the suggested dress is: khakis, button down and tie).

What look would you consider semi-formal and what is a step up from casual but not quite semi formal?

Fabric definitely plays a factor in the "dressiness" of any pants, shirts, or dresses for that matter. Wool is probably the most formal for menswear, with certain cotton twill also pretty dressy.

In this case though, unless we are talking "formal" - then I think that as long as the pants are flat front, neat, and clean - then they can easily be dressed up or down according to the event.

 

That being said, I think that you can look outside the traditional box, as far as colors are concerned here.

Something like these from J. Crew are great:

They've got these in Navy, Dusk, Hickory, and Dill.

 

I would also highly, highly recommend getting yourselves to an H & M Store near you (I think they have a few in your area). Click here, then store locator:

http://www.hm.com/us/storelocator__storelocatorhtml.nhtml

They have fantastic flat front dress pants, and are usually really great prices. You could probably get some anywhere from $20 to $60.

And this place is cool and fashion forward. Any pants you get here, will be totally cool and stylish. They will also have a lot more color and pattern choices here at H & M for dress pants. None of them will be old fashioned.

 

As far as the dance, I'd get the dress pants, but encourage them to use their own style for the top portion. I know they have different vibes.

If a suggestion of a dress guideline is khakis and a tie, then they are pretty open. That is not even "Semi-Formal". It's basically "dress nice", "dance club" guidelines.

I'd open their ideas to a jacket (if they can still fit) and roll or push the sleeves up. No tie needed, if they wear the jacket.

Or, really cool right now, is to wear a shirt and tie with a cool vest. A little dressier than just a shirt and tie - but different than a jacket.

Let them roll their sleeves up if they want. The formality of the vest and tie, enables them to do this and still look dressy but cool. H & M might very well have a cool, inexpensive vest.

 

Hopefully that is answering all of your questions, and giving you some ideas as well. Let me know if you have more questions, or need further help.

 

 

[cruzisme]

wow, lots of great info here and really appreciate the explanations re flat front pants etc. also for a younger person, how to dress up with a shirt, tie, vest combo.

 

and yes, pleated pants are definitely for 'grandpa'! :)

[Curt Jerome Wild]

Our (I work for Jos. A. Bank) plain front dress pants are rather trim through the hips and thighs and have a vertical pocket cut on the side seam. As a result, we find that men who work out, especially those who run or bike, are likely to develop what I call "pocket bulge". Pleated front pants can eliminate this problem on many men.

Hey lel!

I just want to add that I agree with lel that this is the one exception I make for pleated pants.

And it doesn't have anything to do with skinniness, or heaviness.

 

It's the proportion of "thigh" on the particular man. Some men (mostly athletes that have sports that really build their thigh muscles) athletic or not, just naturally have thighs that are disproportionately large for their frame.

Sometimes that one pleat in the pants makes all the difference for them.

But it's a very rare occurrence that that extra ballooning of fabric from the top of pleated pants actually looks better aesthetically on anyone.

 

Even athletes Apollo Ohno and Chuck Lidell - both with proportionately huge thighs look better, slimmer, and overall dressier in flat front suit pants...

 

Heck, even a hefty comedian (Horatio Sanz) looks better in flat fronts:

 

So, there you go...

[Soxfan05]

Hopefully that is answering all of your questions, and giving you some ideas as well. Let me know if you have more questions, or need further help.

 

 

 

 

Thanks Curt, as always you have more than answered my questions.

 

Since your advice last year, my boys are taking a new interest in how their clothes fit. I giggle every time I hear: "That shirt tents on you."

 

I LOVE the tie, dress shirt combo. Could be a nice holiday look.

 

We will make a trip to H&M. I like that we can try out some styles without breaking the bank. I'm willing to invest in their wardrobe but when it just sits in the closet, I get annoyed.

[Soxfan05]

Above should have read: tie, dress shirt, VEST combo. LOVE IT.

 

I do have one more question. One that hopefully will help the girls as much as the boys.

 

I agree that khakis, tie and shirt is code for "dress nice". Basically, one step up from casual IMO. But last year, the kids had a "semi formal" dance and all the girls wore cocktail dresses and had the whole "me" day with salon days etc. For homecoming (which has the "dress nice" code), the girls wear the same type of dress but just don't do the salon day and make it out to be as big a deal, which to the girls, makes it less formal. :D

 

My question is if you were dressing someone for "semi formal", what would they wear -both male and female? And if a guy is going with a date, should he take the cue from what she is wearing and step it up a notch?

 

It's such a catch 22. I would not want my boys ever to dress down just because "everyone else is" but by the same token, I would not want them to feel the need to overdress because their date is. Suggestions?

[Warm Breezes]

Thanks for the info on the pleats. Perhaps you could help me find a place where I can find dress pants for my DS. He is 15, 6'5", 155lbs with a 30" waist and 37.5" inseam. He has muscular legs (from basketball and soccer) but he is so skinny his ribs stick out. He eats like a horse but it all stretches up. It is not possible to find this size in the stores so I need to special order them. I'm not having much luck finding a place where I can order this size. Can you help?

[Hoyaheel]

I had a friend in college who is 6'7" and he got his pants (and jeans) at Nordstrom. I guess the "Big & Tall" stores probably don't help you - too much Big AND Tall, not enough "just tall"?

[Kurbanfan]

For what it is worth, I am a fairly young guy (25), in moderate shape. I agree with what the above poster responded. I personally prefer flat front pants, I find that even for a moderate sized guy, pleats tend to "swallow" my legs. However, it is entirely up to the person wearing the pants. Pleated pants are no more or less formal than flat front pants.

 

Shape and size will make a big difference........my dh is not big but is in great shape and the pleats tend to swallow his legs too......and he is far from 25;) He definitely stays away from the pleats........

[Warm Breezes]

I had a friend in college who is 6'7" and he got his pants (and jeans) at Nordstrom. I guess the "Big & Tall" stores probably don't help you - too much Big AND Tall, not enough "just tall"?

 

Big and Tall store clerks have laughed at me. They don't make them in a 30" waist.

[Curt Jerome Wild]

Thanks for the info on the pleats. Perhaps you could help me find a place where I can find dress pants for my DS. He is 15, 6'5", 155lbs with a 30" waist and 37.5" inseam. He has muscular legs (from basketball and soccer) but he is so skinny his ribs stick out. He eats like a horse but it all stretches up. It is not possible to find this size in the stores so I need to special order them. I'm not having much luck finding a place where I can order this size. Can you help?

I'm here to help...

Some stores carry almost this size (30 inch waist), but only go to 36 inseam.

In a while he'll fill out more to at least a 33 or 34 waist, then you'll be able to buy off the rack.

 

In the meantime...

JC Penny actually has a pretty decent Custom Fit Clothing department.

I would go into the store and order them from there though, make sure the salesperson measures and writes it down for you order.

Pick them up at the store, and try them on before you leave.

That way, if there is any error in the size - they'll have to redo it.

If you just order it online and have it shipped to your house, you don't have as much power or control to get it exactly right.

 

Dress pants are $50 to $79 (depending on size).

 

For jeans Levi's does a great Slim Straight 514 that you can older several colors and styles right from the website.

They have 32 waist with 38 inseam. They've jeans though, so it will fit great with a belt, because they are cut nice and slim - there won't be a lot of extra fabric. These are the jeans I'd get for him.

 

Also, find a Men's Wearhouse that carries Big and Tall. They have some pants that are in 29 to 32 inch waist. They will order them to fit the inseam. Again, I'd do this from a store in person, not online.

Check their Wilke Rodriguez and Joseph & Feiss lines.

 

Finally, I've used this company for custom jeans before:

http://www.makeyourownjeans.com/

But they now make chinos and dress pants as well. Lots of colors, materials and options.

Just make sure you double and triple check measurements.

Order Flat Fronts, and a Straight Fit or Classic Comfort Fit.

 

Let me know if that helps you out, and please let me know how they work out for you if you get them from any of those places.:cool:

[Warm Breezes]

Thanks for the info. We are need of dress pants right now since he needs to dress up on basketball game days at school. I will go to JC Penney and try that route. I currently have him wearing size 30x36 jeans from JC Penney Arizona Jean Relaxed Fit that still barely fit him in length and are too big in the waist (he wears his basketball shorts under them and they still hang but was the best I could find at the time.) I will check out the Levi's. Again thanks.

[mimi217]

Curt WHO ARE YOU ? I love the fact that you answer fashion questions for everyone. I kept seeing questions asked to you specifically. Are you a professional stylist? Just curious.