Booking With US Sites & US TA's

[Whitemarsh]

You have repeated (in your words) what I said above --it appears that some claim to have circumvented the cruiselines instruction to one of the US's largest cruise TA's. I don't doubt their claims - I only comment that to do so or find the way to do so does not deny the basic underlying fact that I have quoted. There is a law that says you should not exceed the speed limit - but many do and get away with it. That doesn't deny the basic fact of the law.

 

Now my questions are - why would the cruiselines give this instruction to this large TA - and why would the TA itself comply with the instruction (which we have seen that they do) if other TA's don't? Or are they the only TA that has received this instruction - or do others simply ignore it?

 

Barry

 

It's hardly a law. I mean lets face it, it's not written anywhere except for the web page of one lonely online U.S travel agency (that I know of anyway).

 

The cruise lines do not mention it in their Passage Contracts and these are the legal agreement between the cruise line and their guests. They are the only written documents by the cruise lines that specify on what grounds a passenger could be denied boarding and guess what.... That's right, they don't mention it!

 

My guess would be that the cruise lines (and we should remember it's not all of them, it's just some of them) gave this instruction to this particular TA because they wished to increase their revenue.

[Whitemarsh]

Somehow, I don't think that's a human right.

 

I agree, it's not a human right but I would class it as financial discrimination.

 

I hope the cruise lines don't decide to charge specific groups of people different prices (for example charging Hispanic or GLBT people more simply because they are Hispanic or GLBT) because that would be beyond the pale. As it is, charging people different prices for the same cabin on the same cruise based on their nationality is disturbing enough.

 

The fact is some cruises are priced better here, but some are priced better there.

 

Perhaps it's the Aussie in me but it sticks in my craw that on a boat travelling from A to B (let's say from Dubai to Southampton) the same cabin has a different price depending on whether a U.S, French, Japanese or Australian person purchases it.

[Aus Traveller]

Quote - Perhaps it's the Aussie in me but it sticks in my craw that on a boat travelling from A to B (let's say from Dubai to Southampton) the same cabin has a different price depending on whether a U.S, French, Japanese or Australian person purchases it. (End quote.)

 

Not really. The only difference is the market where it is purchased, not who purchases it. It is very common for products to cost more in some places than others. The only difference we have here is, with the introduction of the internet, people in one country want to be able to purchase a product in another country.

 

The same rule applies with airline tickets. If (for instance) you want to buy an airline ticket for someone overseas to travel to Australia, you cannot buy it in Australia, even though it might be a lot cheaper.

[Whitemarsh]

Sure... but then so are "senior discounts".

 

Senior discounts do not (as far as I'm aware) entitle the senior citizen to purchase cruises at half the price of non-senior citizens. If the price difference was as large as that between what Australian & U.S citizens pay for the same cruise then I would disagree with Senior Discounts too.

 

Senior Citizen discounts are normally provided by government subsidised public transport and is meant to assist those on a fixed income. Not people who wish to travel around the world on a cruise ship.

 

distinction is the former is racial (or some other form of legislated) discrimination, whereas this pricing is just based on location of purchase. One is prohibited and the other is not. Admittedly the example I gave above of senior discounts also falls under the first category (age discrimination) yet nevertheless continues.

 

It's still discrimination and it's still wrong. Australian's shouldn't have to pay twice as much to go on the same cruise as Americans. We're not diseased, we're not second class and we deserve to be able to access the same prices that other humans around the world can.

 

I've been reading this thread with interest and I'm continually surprised at the number of people who are remarkably comfortable with other humans being required to pay twice the price to travel on the same boat in the same accommodation.

 

I would like to point out that the above comment is a general observation and not directed at the poster I am replying to.

 

 

Aus Traveller mentions, this happens in many other situations too - including those theme parks up on the Gold Coast that offer discounts to yourselves, but not to us! However, even on a US cruise without any Australian travellers, you will have people in the same class of cabin with two occupants who have paid differing amounts, based on:

- when they booked,

- what jobs they had (e.g. was a firefighter),

- how old they are (e.g. over 55) and

- where they reside (e.g. Floridian residents vs Louisianian residents).

 

Unless you're advocating the removal of all such discounts, the location booked is just one small part of that mix, and as mentioned such discounts are not unique to cruises.

 

I am not overly concerned with prices differences of a couple of hundred dollars or even a thousand dollars. But when the price difference is so large as to be almost 100% more then I feel discriminated against.

 

Next time you're in Queensland, and you're visiting a theme park, I'll put up the $30 difference between what you pay and what I pay to visit an Australian theme park if you'll put up the extra $5000.00 that I have to pay to cruise on the same boat, in the same accommodation, compared to an American.

 

I'm willing to shake on it : )

[PAFC2004]

I'd really like clarification on this too. Looking to book a short cruise in November on the Freedom of the seas. I could get a junior suite for the same price as a balcony with a US TA. And no where on their site (that I can find) does it say I can't. Even lets you put in Australia as country of residence. Surely if there is no warning, we could not be held responsible if the cruise line wasn't happy about it.

[The_Big_M]

Senior discounts do not (as far as I'm aware) entitle the senior citizen to purchase cruises at half the price of non-senior citizens. If the price difference was as large as that between what Australian & U.S citizens pay for the same cruise then I would disagree with Senior Discounts too.

 

There's no set amount, and some are higher and some are lower. I don't see how the relative amount changes one being financial discrimination and the other not. It just hurts more!

 

Senior Citizen discounts are normally provided by government subsidised public transport and is meant to assist those on a fixed income. Not people who wish to travel around the world on a cruise ship.

 

Indeed - so there is equally little justification for them. Both regional pricing and senior citizen pricing (amongst others) are used as marketing and pricing tools, rather than for any social or otherwise meritorious purpose.

 

To keep things fair for all, they should be removed. But then, it's still unfair to have different pricing for those who book earlier or later and pay more, so they should be removed. Where does this logical path end? One price, always, for the same class of cabin. That's fairest - but I doubt many would actually like that outcome.

 

It's still discrimination and it's still wrong. Australian's shouldn't have to pay twice as much to go on the same cruise as Americans. We're not diseased, we're not second class and we deserve to be able to access the same prices that other humans around the world can.

 

It's a case of what the market will bear. If people don't think it's a reasonable price, then they don't buy it. That will actually serve to bring the price down and balance them. The thing is that people are paying more and as a result they had a bumper Summer season here as well as good forward bookings. That means that they haven't overpriced for us - but they still needed to discount in the US.

 

Prices go down when there's little demand. That's what's happened here. The US economy tanked and they're needing to discount more to recover there. They don't need to discount here as they actually have too much demand. The result is prices are unbalanced. They charge the higher prices worldwide, and the company goes bankrupt as very few people are willing to pay. Or they charge the lower prices worldwide and the company goes bankrupt as its income far falls short of its costs.

 

So they balance things. We pay more as we can, when we can to compensate for where their main market is weak. Is it fair? No. Are any discounts "fair"? No. But they're both used by many companies all over the world.

 

I am not overly concerned with prices differences of a couple of hundred dollars or even a thousand dollars. But when the price difference is so large as to be almost 100% more then I feel discriminated against.

 

I agree that it hurts but it's not across the board. And ultimately cruising is a leisure activity like others so if they make the price unreasonable imo compared to other choices then I'd just look at others for my selection. I don't lose anything by not taking a given cruise; it's not as if it's a basic good which I have no alternative to.

 

I'm willing to shake on it : )

 

Hmm, I think I'd have to make a lot of theme park visits to meet the cost of a cruise and make up on that deal... but thanks anyway :-)

[bazzaw]

Big M

 

I think you are wasting your time and effort. I have noticed that there are people who have a high sense of "unfairness" that they perceive in the world and simply don't understand or want to understand the realities of life.Two realities that come to mind are - there is no guarantee of "fairness" in any aspect of our lives and secondly, it is not compulsory to go on cruises. Hence the market rules - get used to it! :)

 

Now getting back to my search for the "facts" - no more or less than just the facts. I repeat my statement before that the only fact in this matter that I am aware of is that one large US TA has information on it's website about being restricted by cruiselines from selling to non-US citizens. Now , upon further thought, I have realised that there is another apparent fact (which needs confirming) - and that is that it appears that this particular TA is the ONLY one with this limitation stated on their website. Now I am not a big peruser of US TA websites - so can I have some comment on this please from those that are more experienced in this.

 

Barry

[Whitemarsh]

Both regional pricing and senior citizen pricing (amongst others) are used as marketing and pricing tools, rather than for any social or otherwise meritorious purpose.

 

To keep things fair for all, they should be removed. But then, it's still unfair to have different pricing for those who book earlier or later and pay more, so they should be removed. Where does this logical path end? One price, always, for the same class of cabin. That's fairest - but I doubt many would actually like that outcome.

 

I do not believe anyone would have an issue with purchasers receiving a discount for booking their cruise early - provided of course we all get the same discount for booking early.

 

And that's the key point really. Everyone has the opportunity to purchase their cruise earlier. That's why there are no giant threads with upset posters railing against discounts for those who book early.

 

 

It's a case of what the market will bear. If people don't think it's a reasonable price, then they don't buy it. That will actually serve to bring the price down and balance them. The thing is that people are paying more and as a result they had a bumper Summer season here as well as good forward bookings. That means that they haven't overpriced for us - but they still needed to discount in the US.

 

Well I agree with you in principle....If one feels the price is outrageous then don't purchase the good.

 

But having said that, in Australia there is no disclosure from travel agents or the cruise lines that Australians are required to pay twice as much as Americans to cruise on the same boat - in the same accommodation. If the process was transparent and there was a disclaimer from the cruise line at the point of sale that required Australians purchasing a cruise to acknowledge that they, by virtue of their nationality, will be paying twice as much as U.S nationals then I would not have an issue.

 

But without full disclosure regarding pricing then we are not being presented with all the facts and we cannot then make a decision as consumers such as the one you suggest:

If people don't think it's a reasonable price, then they don't buy it.

 

Prices go down when there's little demand. That's what's happened here. The US economy tanked and they're needing to discount more to recover there. They don't need to discount here as they actually have too much demand.

So they balance things. We pay more as we can, when we can to compensate for where their main market is weak. Is it fair? No. Are any discounts "fair"? No. But they're both used by many companies all over the world.

 

But that's just it. Prices were not comparable even before the Global Financial Crisis. Cruise lines still charged Australian cruisers twice the price for the same accommodation. Recessions come and go, property prices boom then bust. The one constant is that Australian's are charged more.

 

I agree that it hurts but it's not across the board. And ultimately cruising is a leisure activity like others so if they make the price unreasonable imo compared to other choices then I'd just look at others for my selection. I don't lose anything by not taking a given cruise; it's not as if it's a basic good which I have no alternative to.

 

That's right, but I would prefer to have all the facts and be made aware of the different pricing structures for different nationalities. If the cruise lines were transparent and honest (and it is a lie by omission) with Australians regarding their cruising prices then I would not feel as though I the wool was being pulled over my eyes with regards to the price of a cruise.

[Whitemarsh]

Big M I think you are wasting your time and effort. I have noticed that there are people who have a high sense of "unfairness" that they perceive in the world and simply don't understand or want to understand the realities of life.Two realities that come to mind are - there is no guarantee of "fairness" in any aspect of our lives and secondly, it is not compulsory to go on cruises. Hence the market rules - get used to it! :)

 

I'm sure that prior to some nosy-parker with a high sense of "unfairness" legislating against such practices, there were many big corporations engaging in price fixing and operating cartels. And what a wonderful world it must have been before those busy-bodies concerned only with the rights of consumers (won't somebody think of the giant multi-nationals...... how will they afford the latest Gulfstream?) butted their noses in and spoiled the party.

 

Just because it's a current reality of life doesn't make it right and doesn't mean it should continue.

 

If the GFC has taught us anything it's that the market doesn't know best. Less regulation is not the answer.

[dougo in oz]

Big M

 

Now I am not a big peruser of US TA websites - so can I have some comment on this please from those that are more experienced in this.

 

Barry

 

My comments were based on my opinion, my experience and my discussions with friends and fellow cruisers from Australia and with friends and fellow US citizens while cruising on various ships, and a long conversation with a TA in the States.

[rugbypopsie]

The important thing to remember this is ONE cruise line discouraging us from booking their ships with US T/a's. No law US or Aussie broken!

 

All T/A's will take your booking if you have a US address to give them..all documents are sent electronically anyway.

 

Some Australian T/a's have US connections and they will take your bookings also.

 

Any problems boarding? NO and not likely to be.

 

We want to book locally, just give Aussie T/a's the same booking conditions and pricing and we are happy to do that, while there are light years between prices and conditions we will go with the best deal for us, unfortunately that is often offshore.

 

Carnival should understand just how much ill feeling this causes.

They are to my knowledge the ONLY line with these restrictions.

[Aussie Gal]

Carnival should understand just how much ill feeling this causes.

They are to my knowledge the ONLY line with these restrictions.

 

Unfortunately, they are not the only Cruise Company to restrict Aussies from booking in the U.S. Oceania is another one. They introduced the restrictions about 18 months ago.

 

Jennie

[Guest012]

All T/A's will take your booking if you have a US address to give them..all documents are sent electronically anyway.

 

The day I have to lie about where we live we won't be booking anymore with U.S travel agencies.....shiona

[rugbypopsie]

I totally agree Shiona we shouldn't have to lie. Luckily we have a good agent here with connections so lying is so far unnecessary:D.

 

I did not know about Oceania having the same restriction. Is there any more other than the Carnival collection that anyone knows about?

 

By the way the UK posters on the UK boards are just as teed off about it as we are.

[The_Big_M]

I did not know about Oceania having the same restriction. Is there any more other than the Carnival collection that anyone knows about?

 

Yes, RCL have been doing it for some time, and enforce it through their web site as well.

 

It's really more the case that you count the ones who aren't trying to restrict than the ones that do (since Carnival and RCL are the 2 big groups).

[Cybella]

I encountered a problem booking a cruise on an american website this week.

 

Have others had success booking a cruise at a US site...if so can you contact me, I sure could so with some help or tips.:)

[Whitemarsh]

I encountered a problem booking a cruise on an american website this week.

 

Have others had success booking a cruise at a US site...if so can you contact me, I sure could so with some help or tips.:)

 

Not sure what problems you had but you only need to keep searching online and you will find U.S, Canadian & U.K travel agents that will take your booking.

[Cybella]

Not sure what problems you had but you only need to keep searching online and you will find U.S, Canadian & U.K travel agents that will take your booking.

 

Thanks.

[dougo in oz]

Some interesting info I found on a web site....

 

Apparently the Annual Cruise Industry Report from the International Cruise Council of Australia was held on HALs “Volendam” when she was recently docked at Circular Quay.

“Industry leaders” were given some stats, including that last year (2009 to the summer 2010), it was the Australian cruise industry’s best season. Also, there was an 11% increase in Australian passenger numbers.

In addition, forward estimates show that by 2020, 1 million Aussies will be cruising each year but the most significant growth in 2009 was from NZer’s whose numbers rose by almost 75% from 20,230 to 35,329.

[lizzy77]

Some interesting info I found on a web site....

 

Apparently the Annual Cruise Industry Report from the International Cruise Council of Australia was held on HALs “Volendam” when she was recently docked at Circular Quay.

 

“Industry leaders” were given some stats, including that last year (2009 to the summer 2010), it was the Australian cruise industry’s best season. Also, there was an 11% increase in Australian passenger numbers.

 

In addition, forward estimates show that by 2020, 1 million Aussies will be cruising each year but the most significant growth in 2009 was from NZer’s whose numbers rose by almost 75% from 20,230 to 35,329.

 

 

Yet they still want to stop the VERY small amount of us who chose to book our cruises overseas to save our $'s!!!!!!:mad::mad:

[raringtogo]

we've just arrived this morning in Honolulu off the Rhapsody of the Seas (fabulous cruise btw) and whilst onboard as is the usual drill, you can book a future cruise with $200 obc'S- so, I went up to do this, and the girl booked the cruise- entered the name of my american travel agent- noted and mentioned to me that I had booked 'this' cruise in america and said she would quote the future cruise I was interested in US$ and addressed it on the formal quote to my American Agent - knowing all the time that I am an Australian passport holder......go figure!!!

[Gold Coast Cruisers]

we've just arrived this morning in Honolulu off the Rhapsody of the Seas (fabulous cruise btw) and whilst onboard as is the usual drill, you can book a future cruise with $200 obc'S- so, I went up to do this, and the girl booked the cruise- entered the name of my american travel agent- noted and mentioned to me that I had booked 'this' cruise in america and said she would quote the future cruise I was interested in US$ and addressed it on the formal quote to my American Agent - knowing all the time that I am an Australian passport holder......go figure!!!

 

 

Glad you enjoyed Rhapsody and that itinerary. LOVE that ship and her crew.

That's an interesting comment. Nothing stops us from doing 'Future cruises bookings'.

 

I see RCCL shares have rocketed up to US$36.00 per share.....they must be doing something right.

 

Jillybean:)

[lizzy77]

I emailed a large US travel agency for a quote 2 weeks ago as I had previously dealt with them but received no reply. So- I emailed them again and this time I addressed it directly to the agent for this company who I dealt with before, and I had a quote straight away;). So for those of you who are a bit disillusioned just keep on trying as there are ways and means.

 

We also had lots of issues with the Future Cruise Director whilst we were on the Dawn last year as she wouldn't honour our Future Cruise credits on the Diamond, however we did fill in the Future Cruise application form and just put it into the box with our Credit card details and ---- Bingo--- we got our Future Cruise Letter to be used on cruises outside Aus with the On Board Credit.:).

[Australian family]

we've just arrived this morning in Honolulu off the Rhapsody of the Seas (fabulous cruise btw) and whilst onboard as is the usual drill, you can book a future cruise with $200 obc'S- so, I went up to do this, and the girl booked the cruise- entered the name of my american travel agent- noted and mentioned to me that I had booked 'this' cruise in america and said she would quote the future cruise I was interested in US$ and addressed it on the formal quote to my American Agent - knowing all the time that I am an Australian passport holder......go figure!!!

 

Thats because at the end of the day it is money - they want your money, and probably the consultant is working on a commission basis!

[Whitemarsh]

Hi everyone and thanks to all who have posted or emailed me responses. I'm hoping to do more writing next week -- so feel free to email me through the weekend.

 

The purpose of this story is to clear up confusion. We (the CC editors) get a lot of emails from Australians who aren't sure if they can book cruises through US agencies or not, and I've heard lots of stories about people wondering what will happen if they book through a US agency -- the old "will I be denied boarding"? So it aroused our curiousity as to exactly what is going on with cross-border bookings since everyone has a different story and we didn't know the real answer.

 

I've been talking to cruise lines (as much as they'll talk to me!) and travel agencies and travelers. I'm looking for as many different viewpoints as possible, since this issue is not black and white. Most of all, I'm still trying to find a "denial of boarding" warning printed in black and white somewhere, or an instance of someone actually being denied boarding for being an Australian who booked through a US agent -- because so far I think that warning is a big ol' urban legend!

 

Hi Erica,

 

How's your research going? Any updates for us?