Is bigger really better?

[Cruising89143]

With a ship that size, she may have to tender in some ports, imagine 5,000++ cruisers wanting to go ashore at one time.

 

john

 

Oasis and Allure will not tender. You do know that the Freedom of the Seas and the new Carnival Dream hold over 4500 guests when full and Dream is much smaller. Actually smaller than RCI's Voyager class ships. I have cruised on two of the Freedom class ships and never had issue with getting on and off the ship. Do you really think that RCI built this new ship without thinking about this type stuff? Why do you think that Pt. Everglades just built a completely new 200,000 squre foot terminal to handle the number of passengers that will sail on Oasis? Many of the comments that I have read on this thread tell me that many people are uneducated about this ship and have their facts totally wrong.

[BruceMuzz]

Richard Fain has convinced his Board of Directors to bet nearly $2 BILLION (in a miserable economy) that this new mega-ship idea is a sound one.

 

I don't really like Richard Fain, and I don't know any of the "experts" posting on this thread.

 

But if I had to make any bets myself, I would probably have to bet that the people at RCCL know far more about what they are doing than the posters on Cruisecritic.

[njhorseman]

Richard Fain has convinced his Board of Directors to bet nearly $2 BILLION (in a miserable economy) that this new mega-ship idea is a sound one.

 

I don't really like Richard Fain, and I don't know any of the "experts" posting on this thread.

 

But if I had to make any bets myself, I would probably have to bet that the people at RCCL know far more about what they are doing than the posters on Cruisecritic.

 

 

I agree...and your post is an example. The Oasis of the Seas was ordered in early 2006, and construction started in 2007, long before what you call the "miserable economy" took hold.

[kitty9]

cruisinggator2, this has nothing to do with being small minded and that was a pretty insulting thing to say for a personal opinion. But how far will all this wanting something different and more to do go? How much more do people need on a cruise ship? Will people want ski slope, hiking trails, sport fishing, bungee jumping? My TA just came back from a cruise on Oasis and he said it was far too much of everything, but the worst part is, you never know you're on a ship. With that being the case, why even bother? Why doesn't Oasis just sit at dock and not leave the port? It sure would save RCI tons of money in fuel costs.

 

I guess we all know where this may go, seeing that men run these companies and they always want to be the biggest. The whole "mine is larger than yours" is rampant in the cruise industry. BTW, the previous comment is meant to be funny.

[BruceMuzz]

I agree...and your post is an example. The Oasis of the Seas was ordered in early 2006, and construction started in 2007, long before what you call the "miserable economy" took hold.

 

And in the middle of the worst of this economy, they opted to build the second one - despite the objections of nearly all the "experts".

 

The ship I manage is small by comparison. Only about 120,000 tons. I have to get back to managing it.

[navybankerteacher]

Richard Fain has convinced his Board of Directors to bet nearly $2 BILLION (in a miserable economy) that this new mega-ship idea is a sound one.

 

I don't really like Richard Fain, and I don't know any of the "experts" posting on this thread.

 

But if I had to make any bets myself, I would probably have to bet that the people at RCCL know far more about what they are doing than the posters on Cruisecritic.

 

Of course, the posters on Cruise Critic, whose opinions you seem to belittle, are representative of the people who will or will not pay the fares to make Oasis a winner. Also, just because the people at RCCL are in the business is no guarantee that they really know best. How many enterprises run by "people in the business" have gone belly up in the recent past? CC posters may not represent a significant poll -- but, as a sample, their opinions surely do have relevance.

[MissSummers20]

Summer, I'm glad you showed up to lend this thread some balance.

 

I understand what you are saying, your point of view in wanting a myriad of activities. I think there are already plenty and it's easy to stay plenty active, but, hey, we're different people - I totally get that people want to zipline on a ship and stuff - that's why they put the stuff there! THere are some interesting novelties on this brand new ship.

 

One thing I wanted to ask you, since you mention your age and "worth the high price tag" is, do you pay the cruise fare? Obviously, Oasis has a cost vs benefit aspect to consider for most of us, and I wonder if the high fare is coming out of your pocket?

 

Please understand, I respect your opinion of going on O either way, I just want to attempt to put into context your comment about 'worth the high price'.

 

I hope you have a fabulous time!

 

Thank you Wannabe for your respectful answer!

To answer your question, yes, I am paying for myself. I have to save $300/month for the next 9 months to pay for myself entirely. (Cruise,excursions, spending money, hotel before/after, flight (from Seattle).

 

I acknowledge that there are many valid points regarding the Oasis, but

for many people (me included) there are ways to rationalize them away.

 

1) High price tag: Of course it costs more! Its brand new, is the "biggest" ship ever, most modern and has more to offer than most other ships.

 

2) Cut off from the Ocean. Yes, it is designed differently from more traditional cruise ships, but thats the point. RCCL is betting on drawing in a younger and "new to cruising" crowd that can appreciate all that the Oasis has to offer. Its not like you can't enjoy being on the water, thats what balcony rooms are for! Plus, if you want to lounge around with a view, you can, you'll just have to find a spot to do so. It seems like a fair trade-off for me. I can see why experienced cruisers who enjoy "traditonal" cruising, connecting with the sea and other passengers will find Oasis unappealing, but thats just the point, offering more variety.

 

3)Pricey Extras: They are technically "extras" and are not nessescary, same as gambeling and alcoholic beverages. There are more than plenty of included dining venues and activities to keep every cruiser happy. I think its nice to have more options (even with a fee).

 

4)Why Allure is already in the making. I did the math. Oasis will pay for itself in maximum 5 years (more like 3-4). After that, that is A LOT of revenue. ( I took an average fare for 3/4 the ship and halfed the total to get the profit for each week. this is not including extras) I am sure at least a few "older" ships will get re-purposed or scraped to help draw crowds, but over time it'll be worth it.

 

Oasis will draw a different crowd, a lot of people will want to go at least once and many will cruise yearly. Cruising is the fastest growing form of vacationing and once people get used to the idea of a new way to cruise, I think Oasis will be a success.

 

~Happy Cruising!~

[BruceMuzz]

Of course, the posters on Cruise Critic, whose opinions you seem to belittle, are representative of the people who will or will not pay the fares to make Oasis a winner. Also, just because the people at RCCL are in the business is no guarantee that they really know best. How many enterprises run by "people in the business" have gone belly up in the recent past? CC posters may not represent a significant poll -- but, as a sample, their opinions surely do have relevance.

 

Actually I have a very high regard for some of the opinions voiced here. If I didn't, I wouldn't spend so much time here. But there are limits.

 

Total CC Membership represents about 2% of total cruisers this year. Although this number is quite small, I believe that some of the opinions here represent a far greater percentage of the cruising public. But that's just my opinion.

 

But when it comes to operational or financial issues that are cruise-specific, we are talking a different scenario. These issues are more complex than most posters here realise. Soccer Moms, Taxi Drivers, and Ranchers are hardly qualified to second-guess seasoned executives who are handling multi-billion dollar businesses.

 

How many major cruise lines (like RCCL), run by "people in the business", have gone belly up in the recent past (despite the incredibly poor financial situation)? None.

 

American Banks, Hotels, Airlines, and Auto Manufacturers could take a few lessons from those "people in the cruise business".

Or maybe they should just poll the posters on Cruisecritic for advice ?????

[njhorseman]

And in the middle of the worst of this economy, they opted to build the second one - despite the objections of nearly all the "experts".

 

The ship I manage is small by comparison. Only about 120,000 tons. I have to get back to managing it.

 

 

Yes, they ordered the second ship. Does ordering it prove it's going to be financially successful?

 

I guess with all the time you spend at sea you didn't hear about governments around the world having to commit untold billions to prevent the international banking system from collapsing. All those bankers whose companies had to be bailed out surely thought they were making the proper choices. So did the businessmen running outfits like GM and Chrysler.

 

You're right...the ship you manage is small by comparison. The entire cruise industry is a mom and pop grocery store compared to companies like AIG, General Motors and Citibank.

[chipmaster]

Oasis of the Seas, with more than 5,400 passengers, has a lowest price for 7 days in an inside in December :$1,049 (Dec. 12)

 

On similar dates there are the following:

 

Costa Atlantica - Balcony - $549

Crown Princess - Balcony - $779

Norwegian Pearl - Suite - $899

Carnival Liberty - Balcony -$749.

 

What are people thinking?

Is "new" that much better?

Is huge something to pay a premium for?

 

Why go to sea at all if you need a park, bowling alley, skating rink, fast food restaurants, etc.

 

Has Royal Caribbean gone too far? What do you think?

 

Very simply call it fad pricing. It'll be interesting to hear what people say when 5000 people try to get off in some of the ports, last day disembarkation should be fun as will formal night too. Sounds like Las Vegas style crowds on super bowl sunday :eek:

 

Like the A380 this ship was conceived during a very different economic enviroment and mind set. A lot has changed since when Oasis and the A380 were pitched to their respective boards

[Cruising89143]

cruisinggator2, this has nothing to do with being small minded and that was a pretty insulting thing to say for a personal opinion. But how far will all this wanting something different and more to do go? How much more do people need on a cruise ship? Will people want ski slope, hiking trails, sport fishing, bungee jumping? My TA just came back from a cruise on Oasis and he said it was far too much of everything, but the worst part is, you never know you're on a ship. With that being the case, why even bother? Why doesn't Oasis just sit at dock and not leave the port? It sure would save RCI tons of money in fuel costs.

 

I guess we all know where this may go, seeing that men run these companies and they always want to be the biggest. The whole "mine is larger than yours" is rampant in the cruise industry. BTW, the previous comment is meant to be funny.

 

So what you're saying is that people should not want something different? We should all be happy with the same thing? What kind of world would that be? Just becuase you have no interest in it, doesn't mean that other share the same opinion as you.

[paul929207]

So what you're saying is that people should not want something different? We should all be happy with the same thing? What kind of world would that be? Just becuase you have no interest in it, doesn't mean that other share the same opinion as you.

For those that want the glitz and crowds of the Oasis, I say go or it. For me, I want something different. I want to go to new places. Places in Europe, Asia, SA, Australia and Africa. I made it to all the continents except Australia this year and plan to visit more new places next year and the years after that. The Oasis may be new, but it goes to the same old places.

[footzz]

At this moment I think the Oasis of The Seas is a great thing. I’m not saying I’m all that interested in cruising on her, but all of the interest in her is driving down the prices on other RCI cruises. Perhaps this is an unforeseen consequence of trying to fill such a gargantuan ship. I’ve already received two (2) price reductions on my upcoming January cruise. If your sailing RCI in the near future you should monitor the fares and take advantage of RCI’s Best Price Guarantee Program.

[uppitycats]

It seems like the ship IS the destination. I agree with the poster who said something like, "why not just park it along side a pier somewhere and save the gas money?"

 

Those folks who actually want to see the ocean can go look out that side, folks that just want to play, can enjoy all the amenities, sports, gambling, etc., on board...and there's always the shore for those who want to "shop".

 

And leave the cruising to the rest of us, on the smaller, less congested, less "fun" ships....

[5MNtravelbugs]

Some of the amenities would be nice but all I can think of is how crowded these ships must be! Lines everywhere. I want to relax and enjoy, not hurry up and stand in line and wait! The smaller ships are nicer to meet the people and you SEE them again! If these ships were 1/2 full as they were when they had the travel agents and travel writers aboard, I think they would be doable. Otherwise give me the 2500 and less passenger ships and let me go to see a few more sights!! (not just the inside of the ship!)

[nekhabet]

Oasis type ships are probably going to appeal to the "next" generation of cruisers. From a demographic point of view younger cruisers have grown up with a lot of entertainment options than those of us 40 and over did not have. Younger cruiser (in general) like to be entertained non stop. (ever noticed how they can't stop texting each other)

 

Oasis will find enough people to enjoy her offerings of that I have no doubt.

 

This really is a different strokes for different folks thing.

[BosoxI]

I'm all for the Oasis and others like it in hopes it will attract many of the very people who are now crowding the ships we do cruise on. More space for DW and me. Personally, I'm with the fellow who said give me good dining, a balcony, and interesting ports and I'll be happy. And in my case (and I suspect his, too) a good library. We're soon going on a 670 passenger ship, first time in 20 years we've been on that small a vessel. I can't wait. Have fun on the Oasis, I'm sure you all will, but try not to be in port at the same time we are.:)

[navybankerteacher]

I second Bosox -- while it's great for there to be a choice for every taste, those who prefer fewer crowds and do not need non-stop entertainment, glitz and hustle will benefit by there being such vast floating "palaces " to aborb the people who do want and need those things.

[beachchick]

I'm all for the Oasis and others like it in hopes it will attract many of the very people who are now crowding the ships we do cruise on. More space for DW and me. Personally, I'm with the fellow who said give me good dining, a balcony, and interesting ports and I'll be happy. And in my case (and I suspect his, too) a good library. We're soon going on a 670 passenger ship, first time in 20 years we've been on that small a vessel. I can't wait. Have fun on the Oasis, I'm sure you all will, but try not to be in port at the same time we are.:)

 

I second Bosox -- while it's great for there to be a choice for every taste, those who prefer fewer crowds and do not need non-stop entertainment, glitz and hustle will benefit by there being such vast floating "palaces " to aborb the people who do want and need those things.

 

Such good points! We have zero interest in Oasis (and the like), but have figured that there would be plenty of people who would be. I say, terrific for them. But I hadn't considered the secondary benefit for those of us who prefer ships that are somewhat smaller, less "everything going on all the time," and who don't need (or want) to be constantly entertained (or bombarded with entertainment) as we enjoy finding things to do (or not do) on our own. Certainly we enjoy the Radiance and Voyager class ships, which aren't exactly tiny and which do have quite a variety of amenities and activities. We just don't care to be "theme parked" (if you will) on a ship.

 

It does concern me that so many people seem to be unable to entertain themselves, need constant stimulation, have terribly short attention spans, and have limited person-to-person contact much of the time. But that's an overall societal issue and not at all cruise or cruise line specific (or induced). I guess the cruise lines are looking to cater to those people who want someone to entertain them all day and night. If I owned a cruise line, I'd no doubt do the same thing.

 

In any case, I like the thought that the smaller (relative, of course) ships will be less crowded.

 

beachchick

[BosoxI]

It does concern me that so many people seem to be unable to entertain themselves, need constant stimulation, have terribly short attention spans, and have limited person-to-person contact much of the time. But that's an overall societal issue and not at all cruise or cruise line specific (or induced).In any case, I like the thought that the smaller (relative, of course) ships will be less crowded.

 

beachchick

 

I can still hear my sainted Mother saying "You've got to have inner resources; you've got to be able to fend for yourself. There may be times when you'll be alone in life." I've taken that advice to an extreme, I guess. Nothing like a sea day, a good book, and my feet propped up on the balcony railing. Oh, and with Chopin or Sinatra going through my head, as they so frequently do.:D

[paul929207]

I'm all for the Oasis and others like it in hopes it will attract many of the very people who are now crowding the ships we do cruise on. More space for DW and me. Personally, I'm with the fellow who said give me good dining, a balcony, and interesting ports and I'll be happy. And in my case (and I suspect his, too) a good library. We're soon going on a 670 passenger ship, first time in 20 years we've been on that small a vessel. I can't wait. Have fun on the Oasis, I'm sure you all will, but try not to be in port at the same time we are.:)

If yoou are talking about one of the small Princess ships (Pacific, Royal and Ocean), you will love them. We have spent 150 nights on these little girls the last four years with 31 mre booked next year.

[michelle1836]

some people say its not the size that matters. just sayin' ;)

[RetireeWannabee]

Thank you Wannabe for your respectful answer!

To answer your question, yes, I am paying for myself. I have to save $300/month for the next 9 months to pay for myself entirely. (Cruise,excursions, spending money, hotel before/after, flight (from Seattle).

 

I acknowledge that there are many valid points regarding the Oasis, but

for many people (me included) there are ways to rationalize them away.

 

1) High price tag: Of course it costs more! Its brand new, is the "biggest" ship ever, most modern and has more to offer than most other ships.

 

2) Cut off from the Ocean. Yes, it is designed differently from more traditional cruise ships, but thats the point. RCCL is betting on drawing in a younger and "new to cruising" crowd that can appreciate all that the Oasis has to offer. Its not like you can't enjoy being on the water, thats what balcony rooms are for! Plus, if you want to lounge around with a view, you can, you'll just have to find a spot to do so. It seems like a fair trade-off for me. I can see why experienced cruisers who enjoy "traditonal" cruising, connecting with the sea and other passengers will find Oasis unappealing, but thats just the point, offering more variety.

 

3)Pricey Extras: They are technically "extras" and are not nessescary, same as gambeling and alcoholic beverages. There are more than plenty of included dining venues and activities to keep every cruiser happy. I think its nice to have more options (even with a fee).

 

4)Why Allure is already in the making. I did the math. Oasis will pay for itself in maximum 5 years (more like 3-4). After that, that is A LOT of revenue. ( I took an average fare for 3/4 the ship and halfed the total to get the profit for each week. this is not including extras) I am sure at least a few "older" ships will get re-purposed or scraped to help draw crowds, but over time it'll be worth it.

 

Oasis will draw a different crowd, a lot of people will want to go at least once and many will cruise yearly. Cruising is the fastest growing form of vacationing and once people get used to the idea of a new way to cruise, I think Oasis will be a success.

 

~Happy Cruising!~

 

YAY, Summer!!!! Good on you to be able to save $300/month!!!!!!

 

You will certainly have a fantastic time, as you seem to be one of those savvy shoppers that bought exactly what she wants.

 

Cruise on!

[navybankerteacher]

MissSummers20 should go to work for Tim Geithner -- she could resolve all our budget deficit problems the way she said she "did the math". Oasis cost $1,400,000,000 - ($1.4 billion). To amortize that in 4 years (forget the 3 years she referred to) at a 5% cost of funds would cost $32,241,020 per month, or $386,892,240 per year. Assuming the ship only had to be out of service 1 week per year for maintenance and overhaul, she would have to NET $7,586,122 per week -- or $1,404 per passenger --after allowing for fuel, food, salaries, insurance, port charges, taxes, etc. to just cover debt amortization.

 

The pros who made that business decision better hope that the allure of the newer, bigger, grander ship remains - they have a big nut to pay off.

[MissSummers20]

MissSummers20 should go to work for Tim Geithner -- she could resolve all our budget deficit problems the way she said she "did the math". Oasis cost $1,400,000,000 - ($1.4 billion). To amortize that in 4 years (forget the 3 years she referred to) at a 5% cost of funds would cost $32,241,020 per month, or $386,892,240 per year. Assuming the ship only had to be out of service 1 week per year for maintenance and overhaul, she would have to NET $7,586,122 per week -- or $1,404 per passenger --after allowing for fuel, food, salaries, insurance, port charges, taxes, etc. to just cover debt amortization.

 

The pros who made that business decision better hope that the allure of the newer, bigger, grander ship remains - they have a big nut to pay off.

 

According to Royal Caribbean International's Financial Reports, I've included the link at the bottom so you can have your very own copy Navy!, operating costs account for 22.5% of the total revenue earned. Lets call it a generous 25% or 1/4 or the total cruise fare just to make it simpler to calculate. This includes food, fuel, payroll, to maintain the ship etc.

 

Lets assume the Oasis will sail at 3/4 capacity for 51 weeks out of the year.

 

4,722 passengers/ week at an AVERAGE $2000/person (I'm paying $1500 for an inside cabin next August, lots of people are staying in ocean view staterooms and suites, at $2000-$3500 per person, so I feel $2000 is a fair, average cruise fair. Also, I am not counting any "extras", such as gambling, alcohol, shopping, specialty restaurants, so again, I think that amount it fair.

 

That's an income of $9,444,00 per cruise.

After operating costs RCCL is earning $7,083,000 each week.

 

That's a PROFIT of $361,233,000 Per YEAR.

 

So in 4 YEARS, RCCL Will have earned (after operating costs) about 1,444,932,000, that is 44+ million more than the cost of building/operating The Oasis. Like I said, less than 4 years. If the ship is full for some of time, it could easily reach 3-4 years.

 

This is also a very "optimistic" look at how much money The Oasis could make, I could see it taking 5+ years too, it all depends on the econonmy and the success of such a different ship. Cruising is the fastest growing form of vacation, and if the economy gets better, then The Oasis could very well succeed.

 

 

Please be aware that this is very rough math, I do not have a degree in mathematics or business and am just a second year college student, obviously RCCL has completed much more detailed financial predictions for The Oasis, but from my "rough math", ( I was also curious to know why RCCL would make two mega ships, especially during this economy) I am hopeful that The Oasis will be successful and turn a huge profit.

 

Link: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9MzMyOTgxfENoaWxkSUQ9MzE2MzcxfFR5cGU9MQ==&t=1

 

p.s. You are entitled to your opinon Navy, and for you bigger is not betterr, and thats okay. There are lots of cruisers who prefer more modestly sized ships, ocean views from everywhere on board and a more intimate atmosphere. There will always be ships that meet your needs, I don't see why you have to be so negative about the Oasis, if its not for you thats fine, move on to threads about ships you like.

 

I spent my last (and only) cruise with a good book in my balcony cabin. It was soothing and relaxing, but what I wanted was something to do. I can read anyday, its only once a year (or every other year) that I am able to get away to vacation and I want something to "do", to experience and to enjoy. Although I have not been on her yet, The Oasis seems like the perfect balance between relaxing and adventure, views and activities, entertainment and good food, and I love the idea of "a city at sea", thats the whole point, to have something differernt. If I want a ship with 360 degree ocean views, I can find that, but I wanted a mega ship and now I have one!