Help Needed on budget flights from London

[Globaliser]

I am less picky than Globaliser regarding connections in the US versus Europe. It may be that you can get an hour shorter flight but you'll still pay on the back end clearing immigration and customs in your final airport.

I agree that there are other considerations in play as well when choosing connection points. And, in general, US citizens are likely to have an easier time when connecting at a US gateway because of preferential immigration clearance - not for them the common experience of queueing for 60-90 minutes just to clear immigration.

 

But I think that "an hour shorter" is under-estimating the difference. At a European connection point, where the only formality is security clearance, a minimum connection time of 60 minutes between flights will usually be fine. However, if you connect at a US gateway and you are not someone who thrives on travel stress and uncertainty, you would probably want to build in a minimum connection time of something like 180 minutes, just in case. (If you clear immigration and customs at your final destination, you just take all the benefit if you actually clear faster than the worst case scenario; but if you have an onward flight to catch, you have to allow for "worst case".)

 

So that's two hours extra already, before you start looking at issues like the actual time of the next onward flight after your self-imposed minimum, and the slightly longer flight routings that many US-gateway connections involve.

[SelectSys]

... And, in general, US citizens are likely to have an easier time when connecting at a US gateway because of preferential immigration clearance - not for them the common experience of queueing for 60-90 minutes just to clear immigration.

 

My experience, as a US citizen, is that I have never waited more than 30 minutes in one of AA's hub cities (DFW, JFK, MIA) to clear the whole process. ORD and BOS are a bit slower in some regards as they require a terminal change. My worst experiences seem to happen in LAX. I think my max wait has been about an hour. Outside the US my worst lines have surprisingly been at YVR . At YVR if you get caught up with the peak of the inbound flights from Asia you can be in line for 90 minutes. I hope they have extra staff for the Vancouver Olympics.

 

But I think that "an hour shorter" is under-estimating the difference. At a European connection point, where the only formality is security clearance, a minimum connection time of 60 minutes between flights will usually be fine...

 

I was looking at the total trip duration as reported by Orbitz rather than a specific connection time.

 

However, if you connect at a US gateway and you are not someone who thrives on travel stress and uncertainty, you would probably want to build in a minimum connection time of something like 180 minutes, just in case.

 

I neither strive on stress or uncertainty and the only time I have had such long connections is on award travel tickets where that was the only option. I have flown a fair amount over the years and can only think of one instance where I missed a legally booked connection and this was due to weather.

 

I have actually made it though the whole process very quickly some times and due to the fact I don't check luggage in most situations made it on an earlier flight home.

 

Factor in that someone in the US will get anywhere at least $200 of after tax frequent flyer benefit (assuming raw value of FF mile @ 1 cent and total 50% tax bracket) if they use a US carrier. With elite status this can easily be $400!

[Globaliser]

I neither strive on stress or uncertainty and the only time I have had such long connections is on award travel tickets where that was the only option. I have flown a fair amount over the years and can only think of one instance where I missed a legally booked connection and this was due to weather.

 

I have actually made it though the whole process very quickly some times and due to the fact I don't check luggage in most situations made it on an earlier flight home.

Well, I'm not sure that this is consistent with most advice given here about making international -> domestic connections at a US gateway. Most posters who give recommendations say minimum 3 hours. Personally, I would even adopt myself that if I were travelling on two separate tickets. And most CC members will be travelling with some checked baggage by necessity (even if I do think that most of them have more than enough of the stuff!).

Factor in that someone in the US will get anywhere at least $200 of after tax frequent flyer benefit (assuming raw value of FF mile @ 1 cent and total 50% tax bracket) if they use a US carrier. With elite status this can easily be $400!

I'm not sure why you think that this is limited to those who fly with a US airline? Most airlines now give frequent flyer miles, and in many cases you can collect frequent flyer miles in a US airline's scheme even if you are flying a non-US partner airline.

[SelectSys]

...Most posters who give recommendations say minimum 3 hours.

 

I haven't seen this and who knows how frequently they travel. No one I know that travels internationally frequently and is based in the US would conciously schedule this much time between connections.

 

Personally, I would even adopt myself that if I were travelling on two separate tickets.

Why would you do this? Making a connection on separate tickets is just asking for trouble. If you travel on separate tickets you certainly need to stretch things out.

 

I'm not sure why you think that this is limited to those who fly with a US airline? Most airlines now give frequent flyer miles, and in many cases you can collect frequent flyer miles in a US airline's scheme even if you are flying a non-US partner airline.

 

I don't exclude this possibility but it is not a given either. For example, in the case of BA and AA I can't get mileage credit for transatlantic BA segements. Also, I potentially get more ammenities - seat selection, upgrade opportunities, early board, waived baggage fees - in my home program than on an alternate carrier.

[HappiTravels]

Following the advice of the other posters regarding avoiding RyanAir would be very sensible. My mum had a flight from Dublin to London and a connecting flight to Toronto. They canceled her flight while she was at the airport and the next one was not for nearly 5 hours. They couldnt have cared less about her predicament and she is a senior citizen. She had to walk over to the BA desk and book another flight to make her connection. I have also heard that they are planning on starting to implement a charge for using the washroom on the plane (not sure if anyone already mentioned that in thread and I missed it??)

[Globaliser]

I haven't seen this and who knows how frequently they travel. No one I know that travels internationally frequently and is based in the US would conciously schedule this much time between connections.

It does come up here from time to time, in the specific context of an international arrival into a US gateway followed by a domestic onward flight. I don't think I've seen the frequent flyers dissenting from this advice.

 

Obviously, if you're happy to run the risk that you might well miss the onward flight and have to be reaccommodated on another one, you can pick a connection with something much closer to the published MCT. If I were personally flying on a single ticket on non-time critical travel, that would be my approach. But I'm quite laid back, and I would usually have some sort of leverage to deploy to get on an early alternative flight. However, most CC members would not be happy with this level of stress and uncertainty.

Why would you do this? Making a connection on separate tickets is just asking for trouble. If you travel on separate tickets you certainly need to stretch things out.

There are sometimes very good reasons. For example, my most recent US trip: BA across the Atlantic, upgraded with miles, connecting to a local destination mostly served by non-OW carriers. That required two separate tickets - although as it happens, personal timing considerations meant that I had an overnight at IAD on the way there.

I don't exclude this possibility but it is not a given either. For example, in the case of BA and AA I can't get mileage credit for transatlantic BA segements. Also, I potentially get more ammenities - seat selection, upgrade opportunities, early board, waived baggage fees - in my home program than on an alternate carrier.

The AA/BA carve-out is pretty much the exception that proves the rule.

 

And many of those benefits are available on partner airlines, although not always all.

 

So it's by no means a black-and-white situation, and you might well be prepared to give up something like priority boarding in order to get a better service level on a non-US airline.

[personnext]

I don't exclude this possibility but it is not a given either. For example, in the case of BA and AA I can't get mileage credit for transatlantic BA segements. Also, I potentially get more ammenities - seat selection, upgrade opportunities, early board, waived baggage fees - in my home program than on an alternate carrier.

 

AA/BA want to offer mileage credit and the like, but they would like to have antitrust immunity first, and the U.S. government has denied them twice. The third application is in and should be decided on in a matter of weeks which will finally allow AA/BA to codeshare and earn mileage.

 

And you actually can earn AA miles on BA trans-Atlantic flights, just not ones that begin or end in the U.S. (you get AA miles on BA's Mexico City-London flights, for example).

[SelectSys]

...

For example, my most recent US trip: BA across the Atlantic, upgraded with miles, connecting to a local destination mostly served by non-OW carriers.

 

I thought I remember you saying that you didn't want to come to the US anymore? What changed you mind?

 

So it's by no means a black-and-white situation, ...

 

Absolutely, many factors at play on this.

[SelectSys]

...

And you actually can earn AA miles on BA trans-Atlantic flights, just not ones that begin or end in the U.S. (you get AA miles on BA's Mexico City-London flights, for example).

 

I knew this. It just isn't worth the extra bother for a UK trip. BA's coach service just isn't that much better than AA to me for doing something like this.

[scottbee]

AA/BA want to offer mileage credit and the like, but they would like to have antitrust immunity first, and the U.S. government has denied them twice. The third application is in and should be decided on in a matter of weeks which will finally allow AA/BA to codeshare and earn mileage.

 

And you actually can earn AA miles on BA trans-Atlantic flights, just not ones that begin or end in the U.S. (you get AA miles on BA's Mexico City-London flights, for example).

 

Of course the way around all of that is collect Alaska Air miles, which you earn points (and can redeem) on *all* AA and BA flights

[SelectSys]

Of course the way around all of that is collect Alaska Air miles, which you earn points (and can redeem) on *all* AA and BA flights

 

This is a good strategy for someone living in Seattle or Portland who can use AS as their primary carrier or who lives in the US and doesn't collect enough miles to get reasonable status on another US carrier. AS does have great FF benefit sharing options.

[Globaliser]

I thought I remember you saying that you didn't want to come to the US anymore? What changed you mind?

No, I never said I wasn't coming any more! But I am coming far less than I used to, and usually only when I have to.

 

That particular trip was to attend a wedding. But I've realised that I wasn't accurate: I also flew to/from MIA for a cruise last month.

[Desert Cruizers]

I wasn't able to find anything we could use on Vayama. Our flight would be from LAX to Rome. Checking thru the Cruise lines, we are getting fares of around $1900. We don't fly enough to benifit from frequant flyers.

[Taxguy77]

Many of us don't fly enough to use ff miles. I had quite a few expire on AA before having enough to use. I wanted to use for the base ticket, but DWwanted to upgrade to First Class. On the trip out, we had one of their "crews from H---" and were served:confused:later than coach. The trip back was nice, though.

[SelectSys]

No, I never said I wasn't coming any more! But I am coming far less than I used to, and usually only when I have to...

 

Where is the love in that statement? I have to go to the dentist as well, but that doesn't mean that I like it. Is coming to the US for you like visiting the dentist? :)

 

BTW - My apologies in advance to all dentists - I actually really like my dentist as a person and a skilled medical practitioner. Also, apologies to all for being off topic.

[Globaliser]

I have to go to the dentist as well, but that doesn't mean that I like it. Is coming to the US for you like visiting the dentist? :)

Unfortunately, the hassle has made it like that, which is one of the big reasons why I'm not coming nearly as much as before. Can't be bothered with all that, and there are lots of other equally good places to go to.

[SelectSys]

Unfortunately, the hassle has made it like that, which is one of the big reasons why I'm not coming nearly as much as before. Can't be bothered with all that, and there are lots of other equally good places to go to.

 

I agree that there are many great places to visit. My interests have certainly travel interests have certainly varied over the years and it's certainly good to do new things / try new places.

 

However, I am curious to know whether your "the hassle" in the US extends beyond immigration? DHS is certainly not very "customer" friendly, but once you clear immigration things move easily most places in the US.

 

BTW - one thing that surprises me about visitors from the UK to the US is how many of them seem to stick almost exclusively to Florida and the Orlando theme parks. I guess it is the cheap charter flights...

[Globaliser]

However, I am curious to know whether your "the hassle" in the US extends beyond immigration?

It's immigration hassle. If I am going to have a two-day weekend somewhere, I do not want to start it by standing in an immobile immigration queue for 90 minutes, particularly when there are immigration agents sitting idle because they've run out of US citizens to process but refuse to do aliens, and because the slowness is due in large part to inefficient systems that do not prioritise those who are actually very easy and fast to process (like me).

 

Not all US airports are this bad, but so long as there is a risk of it happening it is a big deterrent. There are better places to have weekends away.

[Gardyloo]

There are better places to have weekends away.

Agreed. There's plenty of room on the beach at Benidorm.

 

;)

[SelectSys]

It's immigration hassle. If I am going to have a two-day weekend somewhere, I do not want to start it by standing in an immobile immigration queue for 90 minutes,...

 

Makes sense. I am happy that your issue is with DHS and not the US at large. If I was going to do this type of trip I would certainly hope that "red eyes" would be available in both directions.

[Globaliser]

There's plenty of room on the beach at Benidorm.

Although I have no family or friends there. So it's now more weekends in Dubai, Hong Kong and Johannesburg.

[zoncom]

Used to live Aspen so feel for you. Luftansa took over the UA International routes out of Denver. Been using them ever since. Star Alliance miles, excellent on time. On them out of Pisa this Spring. Check them out on Booking Buddy.com which covers most of discount online providers.