Should I worry about Ochos Rios, Jamaica

[Wineguys]

Yes. It's incredible BUT but thanks to Gov. David Patterson, our 2005 Canadian marriage IS recognized on all levels throughout the state including, I believe, filing of income taxes. Here in Left Squirrels Nut, Pennsyltucky, I was rushed to the hospital after a hunting accident and they would not allow my partner/husband of 23 years anywhere near me until every lawyer friend I have from 4 states descended on the hospital along with my then-estranged sister who came breathing fire. We carry papers in our wallets demanding to be taken across the bridge to New York or to New Jersey (actually both hospitals are 10 minutes quicker than the PA hospital, except I needed an airlift). I just wonder how people in places like Texas or Montana exist.

[melvinwiggles]

I'm not gay, but all gay or straight business aside... just stay on ship. I just returned from a Celebrity cruise that stopped in Ocho Rios (January 25, 2010). This was my fourth cruise and I've been to many ports in the Eastern and Western Caribbean. Ocho Rios is a slum with predators waiting for you as soon as you step off ship, regardless of your sexual orientation. I was traveling with my wife and 2 year old daughter and by the time we made it three blocks away from port I put a stop to the hecklers that had surrounded us and said enough, turned around and led us back to port. I am not exaggerating, you can not breathe in that place. The second you are on shore you are red meat; they get in your face, they join you on your walk and will not get away from you no matter how many times you say no, they menace you and make it very clear they want your money. At the point we turned around we were walking while surrounded by three taxi drivers, a woman that wanted to braid my daughters hair, and a man trying to lead us to his wood carving shop who wouldn't stop trying to shake my hand and telling me he would take care of us. This is within five minutes of stepping off ship. Do yourself a favor, if you get off the ship... get a cup of the Jamaican Blue Thunder coffee at the little shop right at port, then go to the beach that is right there within view of the cruise ship. Other than that, take a shore excursion, but there were some others on my cruise who said that did not even make them feel safe.

[DavidLloyd]

Probably the most interesting thread I've ever read on here. Thank you everyone.

[garykool81]

It takes those of us who are less militant to change the mind of those that are militant on the other side of things. It sounds like Jamaica could use a homo-ambassador or two! <grin> We need activism of all types.

 

I think that is the same idea the previous leaders of the gay rights organizations in Jamaica had. Maybe you could speak with them to see how that turned out...

 

Oh, never mind. I forgot the organization's leader had his throat slashed and body mutilated.

 

Yes, I am sure the warm-hearted Jamaican people are just lining up to hear "your side" of the gay-rights struggle.

 

I think you might be confusing the bigoted ignorance of places like southern America for the pure, violent hatred that is exuded by almost everyone in Jamaica. There is a BIG difference between anti-gay Mississippi or Alabama and a place like Jamaica, where the government and local police ACTIVELY condone violence against gays and even participate in it.

 

While I apologize for the frankly confrontational tone I've taken here, you need to understand that this is a population hell-bent on eliminating all gay people from society through torture, violence and repression at any level. I view gay people choosing to vacation in Jamaica the same as I would a Jewish person choosing to donate money to **** Germany circa the late 1930s. There, quite frankly, is limited difference.

Edited January 31, 2010 by garykool81

[Green Boy]

We went to Jamaica last year, it was the first and last time I will

set foot in this country, I did enjoy the falls, but leaving was awful

I didnt' think the tent city would ever end, and the people would grab you

and try to pull you into their tents ( shops ), they would walk with you

and would NOT leave you alone.. one of the guys chased us down trying to sell us a dvd of the falls.. and he yelled at us all the way to the bus.

 

the we were off to the beach. but I don't think you could call it a beach

it was more like a salty lake. it was dirt not sand... so this was my trip

there...

[ehfl]

There are some gay clubs/bars in Ocho Rios....see http://ezinearticles.com/?Jamaica-Gay-Clubs&id=1987469 for some of them.

 

We noticed a large pride flag at one of the businesses as we got off the pier in Ocho Rios, so you might want to check that out.

 

It's interesting that the strongest opinions come from people who "never get off the ship" or who "read something on the Internet". Come on folks...get out and explore the planet you find yourself on. Life is too short to hide in your cabin.

 

Introduce yourself to some local Jamaicans...don't be afraid of them.

[ATLfuzzy]

I wouldn't give them an extra penny...I stay on board and take advantage of a nice, quiet ship. And discounted spa packages!!

[emjsea]

On the Dunns Rivers Falls excursion, you have to hold hands with people in a chain to make your way up the falls. You will be verbally harassed by the "tour guides" if two men hold hands as part of the chain. Happened to me and saw it happen to others on my one and only trip to that pit.

 

In general I found Ocho Rios to be the only port I've been in the Caribbean (after cruising for eight years) that I found disgusting, dirty, and that I'll never return to.

 

You will be harassed (sometimes grabbed) by vendors and bothered by drug dealers and prostitutes if you walk from the ship to the shopping center.

 

Personally, I'll never take a cruise or set foot in Jamaica for any reason. In Grand Cayman, a few religious nut jobs will stand silent in their church yard to "protest" you (maybe) if you are on a gay cruise, but for the most part they are nice and welcoming and your life won't be in danger.

[ikelmay]

There are some gay clubs/bars in Ocho Rios....see http://ezinearticles.com/?Jamaica-Gay-Clubs&id=1987469 for some of them.

 

We noticed a large pride flag at one of the businesses as we got off the pier in Ocho Rios, so you might want to check that out.

 

It's interesting that the strongest opinions come from people who "never get off the ship" or who "read something on the Internet". Come on folks...get out and explore the planet you find yourself on. Life is too short to hide in your cabin.

 

Introduce yourself to some local Jamaicans...don't be afraid of them.

 

With the greatest respect, this isn't an issue about making an effort to introduce yourself to the locals, it's about a culture and a community that is rabidly homophobic, and a culture that condones and encourages the most horrific violence directed specifically at the gay community. As has been mentioned, you might like to research the issue and discover why posters are so concerned about ensuring visitors to the island are fully appraised of the situation there and don't find themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

Quote: "A group of men kicked him and slashed him with knives for being a “batty boy” — a slang term for gay men — after he left a party before dawn in October 2006. They sliced his throat, torso, and back, hissed anti-gay epithets, and left him for dead on a Kingston corner"

 

Does this sound like locals to be "introduced to"?

Edited February 1, 2010 by ikelmay

[ehfl]

With the greatest respect, this isn't an issue about making an effort to introduce yourself to the locals, it's about a culture and a community that is rabidly homophobic, and a culture that condones and encourages the most horrific violence directed specifically at the gay community. As has been mentioned, you might like to research the issue and discover why posters are so concerned about ensuring visitors to the island are fully appraised of the situation there and don't find themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

Quote: "A group of men kicked him and slashed him with knives for being a “batty boy” — a slang term for gay men — after he left a party before dawn in October 2006. They sliced his throat, torso, and back, hissed anti-gay epithets, and left him for dead on a Kingston corner"

 

Does this sound like locals to be "introduced to"?

 

The same thing happened in Laramie, WY.

 

I know there are people who still think that the embargo on Cuba is working. That isolationism works. That you can change people's minds by isolating them. History proves otherwise.

 

Me and my partner had a great time in Ocho Rios, on an excursion to the countryside, and climbing the falls. At no point on our tour were locals slicing up gays. Yes, some areas were chaos, and vendors were agressive to everyone....us, straight couples, families...everyone. Seasoned travelers experience this all over the world, and know how to handle it.

 

Everyone in the world should have the opportunity to see open, happy, gay couples on TV, at local shops and restaurants, and in their communities. That's what changes minds.

 

Living your life in fear is not going to enrich your travel experience. It's not going to open up the closed minds of others.

 

Hide under your bed if you want....but don't expect change. Insanity is defined as doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results. Isolationism has never worked to change a culture...it never will.

[emjsea]

When the same thing happened in Laramie, WY, most of the nation was horrified and the perpetrators went to jail where they belong. This happens all the time and the perpetrators are heroes and don't go to jail. HUGE difference. Also, gay bashers in the US tend to do their bashing in isolation, not on a public street while being cheered on by spectators and encouraged by the police.

 

You call it an "adventure," I call it swimming in polluted toilet. I'd rather not. All the residents that I've spoken too in other Caribbean islands loathe Jamaicans as well.

 

In fact, the "religious" jerks in Cayman are, for the most port, Jamaicans living in the Caymans.

Edited February 1, 2010 by emjsea

[ehfl]

All the residents that I've spoken too in other Caribbean islands loathe Jamaicans as well.

 

Not to change the subject, but just wondering if anyone has tried Hipocri-Seas cruise line? I hear they have a great excursion, where you can zip-line through the bigo-trees.

[garykool81]

Not to change the subject, but just wondering if anyone has tried Hipocri-Seas cruise line? I hear they have a great excursion, where you can zip-line through the bigo-trees.

 

Actually, there is a signifcant difference in culture between Jamaica and the more progressive Caribbean islands.

 

Point in fact would be St. Barts, where I vacation every year. You can hold hands walking down the street, and NO ONE so much as looks at you. The culture there is as evolved as most of Europe, and I would honestly say that I feel the island is more gay friendly than even San Francisco.

 

While St. Barts is an example at the total extreme of cultural liberalism, the attitudes at other islands such as St. Thomas or St. Maarten are still VASTLY different than that of Jamaica.

[satxdiver]

I stayed on board my last and only trip to Jamaica. It was my choice. I expected to have a nice quiet uncrowded time aboard as I have done this before in ports I have visited many times. I was surprised to be joined by so many of my fellow pax. It almost felt like a sea day. I would estimate that somewhere around 1/3 stayed aboard. That night sitting at a table for eight in the MDR (traditional dining), I discovered that none of the three other couples (straight) had gone ashore either. It somewhat explains why there were so many on the ship during the port stop. If I never go back it will be too soon. The decision for me was because I refuse to give Jamaica any of my money. Everyone has to make their own decision.

[MiamiSpartan]

We did a tour there, and it was fine...

As long as you stick with a cruise tour, you should be fine...

That being said, I doubt I would get off the ship in the future, since I've been once...

[keithm]

If you're with a group excursion, you'll probably be fine so long as you stay with the group. By all means, do not stray off of the "tourist" path- I'd say this for anybody, but times 1,000,000 for a gay couple. I agree with the previous poster who opts to stay on the boat for a quiet day.

 

Grand Cayman is less dangerous, but absolutely no more supportive (truth be told, they probably hate Jamaicans more than they hate gays). Probably no real danger, and you're probably about as likely to get looked at funny (or maybe some rude comments) as you are in a lot of places in the United States, sadly enough.

 

Have fun and be safe!

Never had a problem On Grand C. Didn't really feel safe on Jamaica..Not because we're gay, just had people offering to sell us drugs. I guess in these ports it's a good day to do the spa!

[keithm]

Wow interesting thread. Never planned on going to Jamaica just because its the armpit of the western hemisphere but didn't realize it had such a violent history toward gays.

 

Guess i will put it right down there with Iran on my must see destinations....

As the locals might say..Come back! Come Back! We're bound to miss you..From this Distance!!

[BalconyGal]

No grip needed. It was a jest.

 

I didn't know that New York recognized Cdn marriage....now if we can get Obama to get rid of Doma, I can apply for Green Card, 'cause my spouse is US citizen (and Cdn)....then we can live in New York! :)

Yes, NY started recognizing foreign same-sex marriages in 2008. My wife and I hopped on a cruise ship shortly after to Canada and tied the knot! Thank you Canada and Gov. Patterson ! :)

[toras]

Went to Ocho Rios with my parents on a cruise, did not know all of this beforehand.

 

Anyway we took a boat ride to the Falls (Princess excursion), therefore we did not have to pass through the vendors area. And we walked to shopping plaza but were not accosted by locals.

[keithm]

I haven't been to Jamaica.

 

I've been to homophobic China, Russia (twice), Alaska (twice), Oklahoma (I actually just typed Oklahomo.... ;)) and New York, where even the senate is aligned against us.

 

The difference between the places I've been, and Jamaica...is that Jamaican homophobia is reflected in violence.

 

They don't just hate you. They try to eliminate you.

 

 

Read the lyrics of Buju Banton, http://www.jamaicancaves.org/boom-bye-bye-lyrics.html or this site about crime against tourists: http://www.jamaicancaves.org/jamaica-crime.htm Here's what they say about homophobia: "Homophobia: If you are gay, don't even consider stepping foot on the island. Not only is it illegal to be homosexual in Jamaica, some Jamaicans believe that gays should be killed. The primary musical genre, Dancehall, is replete with songs that encourage this [4], [5], [6]. This belief is often acted upon, such as with the recent murder of Steve Harvey."

 

 

Visiting and taking photos does not an Ambassador make. The only impact you can have on the island is to either enrich them, or not.

 

What do governments do when another country is behaving in an unfortunate manner? Sanctions. They restrict the flow of money. That is the only thing that works.

 

Just remember....YOU may get through the island safely....but the money you spend there may be used to buy the gun which kills one of your gay bretheren (or sisteren. :confused:)

We went to Jamaica on the QM2 back in '06. Grand Caiman,too. As to Jamaica, if we go on a cruise & it goes there we'll just stay on board & do the spa!. Grand Caiman, we had no problems. I feel they just want you to buy. I know they protest the RSVP/Atlantis ships. That's when you just boycott these islands.

[cruzeluver]

We went to Jamaica on the QM2 back in '06. Grand Caiman,too. As to Jamaica, if we go on a cruise & it goes there we'll just stay on board & do the spa!. Grand Caiman, we had no problems. I feel they just want you to buy. I know they protest the RSVP/Atlantis ships. That's when you just boycott these islands.

 

Good thought. but, even if you stay on the ship you are still paying port charges to that port, so not a true boycott. But I do get where you are coming from.

[Ithocles]

After the judgmental and distasteful responses to this genuine thread I posted last year, I left the gay boards a little resentful. Shouldn't we, more than others, be respectful and considerate? I know, too idealistic, but I like being that way. Anyway, I'm tentatively venturing back. I decided to read back through this thread and I'm glad to find some like minded people, ehfl, and some who hold differing opinions and state them respectfully and cogently.

 

I do think it is interesting that some people stay on the ship as to not support ports, when the port taxes and fees go to the country anyway. It's not an effective protest. And I would just love to know how many anti-gay companies are supported by the more judgmental and vitriolic people on the board. My bet is quite a few. For me, I'm being the change I want to see in the world, which is impossible to do in a vacuum.

 

Wherever I travel, I travel smart. It's kept me safe so far, and I imagine it will in the future. it kept me safe in Jamaica when we went. I was really very surprised by our pleasant experience. I think Carnival does a lot to give their customers a pleasant experience. We first went to a plantation, and people were kind and respectful to us, with our matching wedding rings and matching tattoos on our legs. When we went to the falls, I didn't ask for our pictures to be taken together. The guides practically insisted. I was very, very shocked! Our shopping was great too, with a few pounds of wonderful Blue Mountain coffee. I did my research, was guarded especially with some of the more helpful feedback from a few of you, but was respectful and kind to everyone I met and treated them with the respect I hoped to get from them. I had a splendid time.

 

I'm still waiting for my cruise to Alaska, but I'm defending my dissertation proposal next month which means tentatively, we'll be going on the Alaskan cruise in the summer of '12. I am squeezing in a couple more affordable cruises before then though!

 

Safe travels all, and may you have many great travels in the near future.

 

-Danny

[satxdiver]

Good thought. but, even if you stay on the ship you are still paying port charges to that port, so not a true boycott. But I do get where you are coming from.

 

True they do get the port charges. However most pax going ashore will spend $100 each or more on excursions, food, drink and souvenirs. That they do not get and it can add up quickly. I would expect them to know how many came ashore off each ship versus how many were on the ship.

[mistereks]

I just want to add my voice to those who say, "Don't go." Don't go. Change your plans. Don't give Jamaica a PENNY of your money. Go see St. Lucia. It's gorgeous. Take a different cruise or a different vacation. Don't go to Jamaica.

 

If more people start avoiding Jamaica, the cruise lines will go there less and less often, and MAYBE the Jamaicans will wake up and become just a tiny bit more tolerant.

[CruisinMaterial]

It's funny that Princess pulled their Western Caribbean routes from Jamaica a few years now after I stopped sailing them and went with NCL which rarely called there. :)

 

I have to say Jamaica is the worst place I've been to out of everywhere in the Caribbean. I fear for my family's safety when they come with me not just my own. They really need to clean up their act. I find it fitting that RCI is building a new pier there for their mega ships. Let the masses see just how bad that island is while most other lines have figured it out and are leaving there. :cool: