Blow to RCI: Galveston pilot hearings set

[nolimits]

So how does the cruise line pass this cost on just in the fare

[TEXASMUNK]

Every freighter needs a pilot, every cruise ship needs a pilot. The negotiation is not to add a pilot to frieghters, the negotiation concerns have two pilots on Cruise Ships.

Hmm, I wonder which might cause a larger crisis, a cruise ship running aground with one or two pilots or a LNG ship striking a pier????

Those that are adding babble to the conversation need to know what moves in and out of Galveston before they pontificate.

Yes, the port charge fees. The port adjusts fee based on costs. Part of those costs are the pilots. If you are asking what percentage of the cost is attributed to the pilots, you would need to acces the Port of Galveston's annual budget. Which, if you are that interested can probably be found on a governmental website.

[Tranquil Waters]

"[B]Do not muddle the argument"[/B]

You do realize that you are on CC do you not? :D

[nolimits]

I was just asking how and how much $ this issue with the pilots effect us the cruisers.I thought a CCer might know.

[TEXASMUNK]

If my reply, in anyway, appears hostile, I apologize!

I would wager that that info would be hard to dig out of a government agency....The Port of Galveston...

But it is a great question.

[Captain Jake]

[quote name='bbenson']


But 335k a year?!?!?...that's like paying the valet 100k a year to park my car![/quote]

Not really.It depends on what his overhead is.A Valet has little or none.Perhaps the pilot has expenses with the boat and crew.I certainly would not want a valet to pilot a boat out of Baltimore
:cj

[DeepWaterMariner]

[quote name='bbenson']Lets see, what does a pilot do...well he rides his little boat to the ship... gets on the ship...goes up to the bridge and either 1) uses the little joy stick to bring the boat in OR 2) lets the Captain bring the boat in and makes suggestions. Then he gets off the ship and gets back on his little boat to rinse and repeat...[/QUOTE]

Pilots do not touch the helm. They offer advice or direction. Commands for the helm come from the ship's officer in charge on the bridge.

[TEXASMUNK]

When a cruise ship runs aground....the Captain is fired, not the pilot.
When a cruise ship smacks into a pier, the Captain is fired, not the pilot.
When a cruise ship .....etc,etc.etc.

[bigpuma]

[quote name='TEXASMUNK']
When a cruise ship smacks into a pier, the Captain is fired, not the pilot.
[/quote]

Tell that to [url=http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/18/us/18tanker.html?pagewanted=print]John J Cota.[/url]

[spongerob]

[quote name='bbenson']
But 335k a year?!?!?...that's like paying the valet 100k a year to park my car![/quote]If you factor in those cumulative rate increases (almost 43%) that salary goes up to $479K per year. Fat-cat bankers in NY don't get to earn that much!

And before someone questions my math by saying that 8+8+7+7+7= 37%, remember that you multiply, not add, for each year's increase.

[Mark_K]

[quote name='spongerob'][B]If you factor in those cumulative rate increases (almost 43%) that salary goes up to $479K per year. Fat-cat bankers in NY don't get to earn that much![/B]

And before someone questions my math by saying that 8+8+7+7+7= 37%, remember that you multiply, not add, for each year's increase.[/quote]It's not an annual salary, it's a rate they get paid for when they have work, so you can't make simple extrapolations like that.

Unless more ships magically appear in the harbor, the elimination of the second pilot means less work per pilot. It could be that their average annual income will go down the first year and just get back to even by the last year. They will just have to work less to get it.

[marooner]

Some reading for some of the Landlubbers :D


[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harbour_pilot[/url]

[url]http://members.shaw.ca/riverpilot35/pilot.htm[/url]

[url]http://www.atlanticpilotage.com/eng/about-the-apa/faq.html#marine-pilotage[/url]

[url]http://impahq.org/index.cfm[/url]


[B]Eternal Father, strong to save
Whose arm hath bound the restless wave
Who bidd'st the mighty ocean deep
Its own appointed limits keep:
O hear us when we cry to thee
For those in peril on the sea.



;)
[/B]

[Ocean Boy]

[quote name='Mark_K']It's not an annual salary, it's a rate they get paid for when they have work, so you can't make simple extrapolations like that.

Unless more ships magically appear in the harbor, the elimination of the second pilot means less work per pilot. It could be that their average annual income will go down the first year and just get back to even by the last year. They will just have to work less to get it.[/QUOTE]

So it seems once again that the requirement for two pilots has more to do with providing work and income as opposed to ship saftey. I hope they take some nice pictures of Voyager's stern as she sails out of there for the last time. Then they can lobby to put three pilots on a ship.... for saftey reasons, of course.;)

[alexkrn46]

[quote name='Ocean Boy']No, apparently you don't. The pilots agreed that only one was needed if they got paid more but two were needed if they do not get the raise. Now, by saying that you side with the pilots are you, in fact, saying that you agree that the number of pilots needed is related to the amount of pay that they are getting?[/QUOTE]

Excellent point, I can't believe the Galveston port is busier than NY or LA.

[Kamloops50]

Alaska bound cruise ships going to/from Vancouver always have used
two pilots . This is due to length that they have to be on board.
They board about noon one day and get off at 7am the next .:eek:

[marooner]

[quote name='Ocean Boy']So it seems once again that the requirement for two pilots has more to do with providing work and income as opposed to ship saftey. I hope they take some nice pictures of Voyager's stern as she sails out of there for the last time. Then they can lobby to put three pilots on a ship.... [SIZE=4][U]for saftey reasons[/U][/SIZE], of course.;)[/quote]



I think you need to change your name try this [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HqSkY4vtVY[/url] :D:D

[bbenson]

[quote name='Captain Jake']Not really.It depends on what his overhead is.A Valet has little or none.Perhaps the pilot has expenses with the boat and crew.I certainly would not want a valet to pilot a boat out of Baltimore
:cj[/quote]

This was AFTER expenses.... If I remember correctly from the aritlce the company pilot co-op which is a state sanctioned monopoly took in 8 point something million and had expenses of 4 point something million after paying for boats/crew etc.

I'm quoting from an articles in red
"[COLOR=red]over the five year-period, and for a Carnival Cruise vessel such as the Carnival Conquest costs would jump from $8,827.95 to $15,995.63"[/COLOR]


[COLOR=red]"According to an analysis of pilot rates submitted to the commission on behalf of the Galveston-Texas City pilots by Dibner Maritime Associates LLC, an independent consultant, each of the pilots, who work about[B][I] 26[/I][/B] weeks a year, earned an average of $314,453 in 2008."[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ff0000][/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]"Last year, the pilots reported revenue of $10.2 million and expenses of $5.9 million, compared with revenue of $9.7 million and expenses of $5.5 million the year before, according to audited financial reports submitted to support the rate increase request."[/COLOR]

So if you figure the Conquest sails at full double capacity thats 2974 people so you're really talking about $3 per person...going to $5.38 per passenger so you're talking a very small amount of impact for the average cruiser.

And, that number above tells you how they get to 335k or so per person. They take the 10.2 million subtract the 5.9 million and then divide it among their members equally.... So no, the 335k a year is AFTER expenses.

[nolimits]

"Beyond the experience and training of regular ship's captains, pilots also receive special, ongoing training to stay on top of their profession. Pilots are required by law in most major sea ports of the world for large ships." 26 weeks work usualy 1 week on 1 week off. On call the hole time.Salary is Before individual expenses such as insurances and retirement(401s) .The trend in this country that every one should be making 40,000 to 60,000 is crazy.Try cruising on that income, own a home,and send kids to maritme college . These guys Work hard Educate themseves and work in somtimes dangerous conditions. This may not be the time for a raise but they have the rite to ask and negotiate in good faith .

[shipshape sam]

[quote name='nolimits']People can earn what ever the market will pay. The pilots take your and my safety in there hands .What do the captains make? what do those lawyers filing the cases make?What do those board members make.[/quote]

Do you know what a Captain of most cruise ships make? I would be surprised if it was $335,000 including benefits.

---------

It is my understanding that the pilots that come aboard ship do not steer the ship or control anything. They guide/recommend to Captain/staff from the channel to the dock.

[nolimits]

My brother is graduate of maritime collage worked for sealand freighters as an officer,Does have captains licence. Worked 6months on 6 months off before family.Now port captain Always EARNED a good living.

[coxswain]

[quote name='nolimits']"Beyond the experience and training of regular ship's captains, pilots also receive special, ongoing training to stay on top of their profession. Pilots are required by law in most major sea ports of the world for large ships." 26 weeks work usualy 1 week on 1 week off. On call the hole time.Salary is Before individual expenses such as insurances and retirement(401s) .The trend in this country that every one should be making 40,000 to 60,000 is crazy.Try cruising on that income, own a home,and send kids to maritme college . These guys Work hard Educate themseves and work in somtimes dangerous conditions. This may not be the time for a raise but they have the rite to ask and negotiate in good faith .[/QUOTE]



The Pilots i worked with did a week of days off a week then a week of nights of a week - and i agree with pensions/insurance etc etc


All of the pilots i worked with had spent most of their life at sea then decided to come and then spent two years training before they'd even get on a cruise ship/ Tanker.



But sure the know it alls on here know everything !!



PS - Marooner nice one lol





jj.....

[spongerob]

[quote name='bbenson']This was AFTER expenses.... If I remember correctly from the aritlce the company pilot co-op which is a state sanctioned monopoly took in 8 point something million and had expenses of 4 point something million after paying for boats/crew etc.

I'm quoting from an articles in red
"[COLOR=red]over the five year-period, and for a Carnival Cruise vessel such as the Carnival Conquest costs would jump from $8,827.95 to $15,995.63"[/COLOR]


[COLOR=red]"According to an analysis of pilot rates submitted to the commission on behalf of the Galveston-Texas City pilots by Dibner Maritime Associates LLC, an independent consultant, each of the pilots, who work about[B][I] 26[/I][/B] weeks a year, earned an average of $314,453 in 2008."[/COLOR]

[COLOR=red]"Last year, the pilots reported revenue of $10.2 million and expenses of $5.9 million, compared with revenue of $9.7 million and expenses of $5.5 million the year before, according to audited financial reports submitted to support the rate increase request."[/COLOR]

So if you figure the Conquest sails at full double capacity thats 2974 people so you're really talking about $3 per person...going to $5.38 per passenger so you're talking a very small amount of impact for the average cruiser.

And, that number above tells you how they get to 335k or so per person. They take the 10.2 million subtract the 5.9 million and then divide it among their members equally.... So no, the 335k a year is AFTER expenses.[/quote]More facts that will be conveniently ignored by some...but thanks for the effort! :)

[robtulipe]

[quote name='coxswain']You haven't a clue - i'll leave you with one other thing what if the Computer goes down ???
Do you know anything about a serving pilot or his job ? i suggest you do some homework about a pilot before criticising.
jj......[/quote]

The navigation system typically has a battery back up power protection system in case it's power source goes off or it reverts to a back up computer. I even have power protection units on my home computers and laptops automatically switch to battery power if their AC power is interrupted. I suggest you do your homework re computer systems.

[marooner]

[quote name='robtulipe']The navigation system typically has a battery back up power protection system in case it's power source goes off or it reverts to a back up computer. I even have power protection units on my home computers and laptops automatically switch to battery power if their AC power is interrupted. I suggest you do your homework re computer systems.[/quote]


Really Sherlock :D

[robtulipe]

[quote name='marooner']I think you need to change your name try this [URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HqSkY4vtVY[/URL] :D:D[/quote]

[quote name='marooner']Really Sherlock :D[/quote]

Yes, Dr. Watson I believe we have a Coxwain fan here.
Feel free to post when you have some useful information.