Why are Aussies being overcharged for cruises?

[BruceMuzz]

At the end of every cruise on my ship, I receive a report on gratuity adjustments.

 

The report tells me:

How many pax adjusted their tips up, and the total additional tips received.

How many pax adjusted their tips down, and the total amount lost.

How many pax removed their tips entirely, and the total amount lost.

The stated reasons for each adjustment up or down.

A breakdown - by nationality- of adjusted tips.

A breakdown of percentage of each nationality of adjusted tips.

 

Those from Australia and New Zealand are the most telling, and the most predictable.

The number of Aussies and New Zealanders who remove ALL the tips is always over 90% of the total pax from those countries.

 

Do ALL Aussies and New Zealanders ALWAYS refuse to tip? Of course not.

But MOST of them, MOST of the time, refuse to tip the staff.

The reason stated is ALWAYS the same; "We don't tip in our country".

 

Do ALL Aussies and New Zealanders pay extra for cruises ALL the time? Of course not.

But MOST of them pay more MOST of the time.

 

Seems fair to me.

[Charlie Chan]

Thank you for the information BruceMuzz. If this is the case, I apologise for the rudeness of my nation. I guess I must only mix with the 10% who do tip and our cruising friends have all discussed this issue many times. We were all relieved when the 'compulsory tipping' was introduced as it solved our problems with not being so familiar with the tipping systems in place on cruises. As I said previously, our desire is to 'fit in' - not stand out as those who do not play by the rules and are unaware of the courtesies of everyday life when out of our own environment.

 

I seem to remember reading some treads where people have said they do remove tips. I'll have to go back and read these again. We will be adjusting our tips 'up' - but will be doing this directly with the crew members who have gone out of their way to help. This has been the advice given regularly on CC so that the money actually remains with that person. How will this show up in the statistics? Does each crew member have to declare which cabin gave them tips? There is just so much I don't know about the systems in place. Statistics always seem to depend on what information is given accurately in the first place.

 

I'm interested in the comment 'my ship'. Does this mean that you own a cruise liner or are a captain? I would have thought this is fairly privileged information. Or is it available to all? I'd be interested to know if the percentages were different on different cruise lines. We try to choose a cruise line which matches our interests, which is why we have always avoided the cheap 'party' cruises which sail from Australian ports.

 

Thanks also to those who have railed against stereotyping in this thread. Sometimes, it's hard to be polite but I guess it's all about the way you have been raised.

[victravellers]

At the end of every cruise on my ship, I receive a report on gratuity adjustments.

 

The report tells me:

How many pax adjusted their tips up, and the total additional tips received.

How many pax adjusted their tips down, and the total amount lost.

How many pax removed their tips entirely, and the total amount lost.

The stated reasons for each adjustment up or down.

A breakdown - by nationality- of adjusted tips.

A breakdown of percentage of each nationality of adjusted tips.

 

Those from Australia and New Zealand are the most telling, and the most predictable.

The number of Aussies and New Zealanders who remove ALL the tips is always over 90% of the total pax from those countries.

 

Do ALL Aussies and New Zealanders ALWAYS refuse to tip? Of course not.

But MOST of them, MOST of the time, refuse to tip the staff.

The reason stated is ALWAYS the same; "We don't tip in our country".

 

Do ALL Aussies and New Zealanders pay extra for cruises ALL the time? Of course not.

But MOST of them pay more MOST of the time.

 

Seems fair to me.

 

 

I have been on 5 cruises and have always tipped and rewarded more in every case. And we are not talking small change either, 30 day cruises,2 people, exchange rate. We are talking in excess on $600.

I don't recall EVER saying I am an Aussie I don't tip. Of course I don't tip in my own country but overseas if that is what is expected that is what I will do.

So, can you please tell me, the fact that Aussie prices are considerably higher than the US is it because the cruiselines are expecting I will not tip.

If this is the case maybe I will remove my tips in the future because I appear to be paying twice.

Do the cabin stewards and staff know that I have left my tips ON or am I going to be treated as one of THOSE Aussies that do not pay.

 

You are a wealth of information but could you please stop stereotyping us all. Everytime I hear you say 'all Aussies dont tip' you get my blood boiling.

 

I was not going to reply to this thread but I am sick of being told I am tight.

 

Linda

[BruceMuzz]

I have been on 5 cruises and have always tipped and rewarded more in every case. And we are not talking small change either, 30 day cruises,2 people, exchange rate. We are talking in excess on $600.

I don't recall EVER saying I am an Aussie I don't tip. Of course I don't tip in my own country but overseas if that is what is expected that is what I will do.

So, can you please tell me, the fact that Aussie prices are considerably higher than the US is it because the cruiselines are expecting I will not tip.

If this is the case maybe I will remove my tips in the future because I appear to be paying twice.

Do the cabin stewards and staff know that I have left my tips ON or am I going to be treated as one of THOSE Aussies that do not pay.

 

You are a wealth of information but could you please stop stereotyping us all. Everytime I hear you say 'all Aussies dont tip' you get my blood boiling.

 

I was not going to reply to this thread but I am sick of being told I am tight.

 

Linda

 

Linda,

I understand and agree with what you are saying.

I NEVER have stated that ALL Aussies don't tip.

I have frequently stated that MOST do not tip, that 90% plus of Aussies do not tip, and that Aussies in general do not tip. These are all true statements, backed up by years of experience with Australian cruisers.

You happen to come from that very small percentage of Aussies who do tip.

Good for you. And Thank you very much.

But when well over 90% of your countrymen consistently behave in the same manner, time after time, it is rather difficult not to stereotype them - and unfortunately (and unfairly) you along with them.

 

Japanese people never tip in Japan. It is considered quite rude there.

But ALL Japanese people tip when they go abroad.

They follow the local customs - wherever that might be.

Note that cruise prices for Japanese are double or triple the prices in Australia.

 

Brits generally tip only small amounts at home, and over 50% of them consistently will not tip on a cruise ship. In fact, many get quite angry when they feel they are being pressured to tip like all the other passengers.

You may have noticed that Brits generally are charged more for cruises than Americans are.

Coincidence? Perhaps.

 

But Australians and New Zealanders are unique in their views on tipping. As I mentioned, well over 90% consistently and absolutely refuse to tip on a ship. They don't get angry. They just refuse. Most claim that it is not their custom, so the system just does not apply to them. Some claim that their currency is not as valuable as others, so they cannot afford to tip. Even others point out that they have to pay extra for the cruise and so cannot afford to tip the staff.

 

When a ship gets a group of Aussies onboard, the staff is first happy to see them. Australians are usually lots of fun (please excuse the stereotyping) and easy to deal with. But then the tip cancellations start coming in. The tipped staff takes heavy income losses from your countrymen. The minimum guarantee salary clause in their union contract forces the cruise line to partially subsidize the tip losses. But the staff still loses quite a bit of money.

 

The last time I had a large Aussie group on my ship, we really enjoyed them. Then the staff found out how much income they lost. Then the head office announced that the company had to kick in an additional US$84,000 to the tipping pool to partly cover the losses and bring the tipped staff up to guaranteed minimum wages. This is not a good situation for anyone.

 

None of this is your fault; nor is it mine.

 

But when this happens again and again, you won't get too much sympathy from the ship's crew - nor from the cruise line, when you are charged more than others for a cruise.

[victravellers]

So, I am paying my tips twice...good to know.

In future I will have to tell the staff I meet, that although I am an Aussie I WILL pay my tips. I do not want my cruise experience to be any less that any other traveller from any other country due to a stereotype from the crew.

Do the crew know if I have left my tips on?

 

Linda

[BruceMuzz]

Linda,

 

The crew do know.

Every day an updated report is circulated to all department heads, listing the cabins that have adjusted tips - up or down.

The department heads go to each crew member involved to ensure that:

1. sub par service was not the problem.

2. the crewmember knows that any cash tips received from cabins that have removed charged tips must be handed into the tipping pool.

 

If it helps you at all, my Japanese friends are paying the equivalent of US$1,000 per night for an inside cabin on the QM2. AND THE SHIP NEVER LEAVES THE PIER.

 

They are tipping just like everyone else - even though it's not fair.

[BruceMuzz]

You are so wrong BruceMuzz, we have travelled extensively around the U.S and we ALWAYS tip, because it is the thing to do over there and because we have always received good service. We also tip over here when we get good service.

I too am very disappointed with some of the replies on here as I have received a lot of help and tips from the (mostly) lovely people on CC.

I too have noticed the discrepancy in the price which Australians pay compared to what the good people of the USA pay...we can't all be wrong ;)

 

Charlie Chan....a very good post indeed :)

 

Tanderra,

I stand corrected. You are part of that extremely small percentage of Aussies who follow the local customs - rather than their own - when travelling abroad.

Now if you could only convince several million of your countrymen to be as enlightened as you, we could be rid of these stereotypes.

 

Perhaps after you convince them to tip, the cruise lines will consider them more desirable customers and offer them better deals on cruises.

[victravellers]

Linda,

 

The crew do know.

Every day an updated report is circulated to all department heads, listing the cabins that have adjusted tips - up or down.

The department heads go to each crew member involved to ensure that:

1. sub par service was not the problem.

2. the crewmember knows that any cash tips received from cabins that have removed charged tips must be handed into the tipping pool.

 

If it helps you at all, my Japanese friends are paying the equivalent of US$1,000 per night for an inside cabin on the QM2. AND THE SHIP NEVER LEAVES THE PIER.

 

They are tipping just like everyone else - even though it's not fair.

 

Thank you for your responses I do appreciate knowing how the system works.

I have always been curious about that because on my first cruise our cabin steward was much less than I had expected from what I was reading here on CC. Afterwards I did wonder if it was because I was an Aussie or he was just bad.

Since then I can honestly say the service has been wonderful and I would hate to think there was a preconceived idea about me and my nationality.

 

Linda

[victravellers]

Linda,

 

The crew do know.

Every day an updated report is circulated to all department heads, listing the cabins that have adjusted tips - up or down.

The department heads go to each crew member involved to ensure that:

1. sub par service was not the problem.

2. the crewmember knows that any cash tips received from cabins that have removed charged tips must be handed into the tipping pool.

 

If it helps you at all, my Japanese friends are paying the equivalent of US$1,000 per night for an inside cabin on the QM2. AND THE SHIP NEVER LEAVES THE PIER.

 

They are tipping just like everyone else - even though it's not fair.

 

Sorry about the questions but I really am interested, I can't change the world but I can learn as I go.

Do the staff in the dining room also know, more thinking on a day to day basis with anytime dining for example. I am truly not trying to create waves I am just very interested.

 

 

Linda

[Charlie Chan]

I am still waiting for a reply to my questions Brucemuzz.

 

Your original comment was that Aussies do not tip - there was no indication that this meant 'the majority of Australians'. Yet you categorically state that you have never said that 'all Australians do not tip. True. So there is a difference between 'all' and 'Australians'? Perhaps the grammar rules also are different in our respective countries.

 

Like Linda, I do not want to be double charged. I have no idea of what the other people on the cruise I will be taking have paid, but I will definitely try to find this out in the most circumspect way. I have never even considered this on previous cruises. Other posters (Europeans) have commented that they, too, pay higher charges. Yet they are used to tipping. This tends to negate the premise that Australians are charged more because they do not tip. I know for a fact that there are not 'millions' of Australians who do not tip. We have a low population. Other posters have commented that as we are a small market, we should not be given the discounts given to U.S. travelers. I find it difficult to believe that there would be so many Australians on a cruise that the short fall would be U.S. $84,000. For our 20 day cruise, we will be paying approximately $440.00. (pre-paid) There must have been a huge number of Australians on this cruise you are referring to. But then, I am not party to the statistics you receive. There is obviously something very wrong with the system that allows this to happen. I would rather pay more to ensure that all crew are paid a reasonable wage than to have aspersions cast on my character by the crew and other passengers that I am 'tight'. This is making me feel very uncomfortable about my forthcoming cruise. So I can only hope that the non Australians on this cruise are more tolerant.

 

It is easy to make these comments when you can hide behind a cloak on anonymity.

 

Be brave and reveal the truth. What is your position? Which cruise line do you work for? Your comments would have more credibility if you were more forthcoming.

 

I have tried to be polite but my patience is wearing thin. Thank you to all who have commented on this issue in the same vein. United we stand etc etc.

[Cruisin_on_th_net]

BruceMuzz. I work with someone who is going on a cruise with his wife and 2x kids, outta brissy in April. (brissy = Brisbane Aus) I overheard him talking about his cruise. He said, "oh and then you have the tips. Our TA said you can have them removed, and pay what you want if you think they deserve it. It's rather a large amount, so I think we'll do that then just hand some money on the last few days to the cabin staff. But that's only if we've had the same one and we think they've done an excellent job. I mean they're getting paid to clean our room, and I don't mind tipping for good work, but we won't be tipping if all they do is clean our room."

 

He was quite genuine in his comments. His TA had told him that, so why would he think there was anything wrong with it. I mean the TA is charging HEAPS more for the cruise than their american/canadian counterparts, so I guess they HAVE to try and discount the cruise some how.

 

You'll be happy to hear I kinda piped up :o and told him that the staff rely on the tips as their actual wages, because they get paid very little, and need the tips to top up their wages.

 

He was completely unaware of this, and is now re-thinking about NOT removing the tips.

 

I don't think Americans get the Aussie / NZ/Europeon (?? maybe them too) mentallity that tipping is actually for above and beyond service, NOT standard service.

 

Also in the example given, I doubt any american/canadian would be tipping the 6 thousand more dollars other nationalities are being fleeced in cruise fares so that's really a P*ss poor statement. Perhaps if everyone paid the same amount, a) the cruise lines would "afford" to pay their staff a decent wage, or b) the cruisers would have more $$$ to spend on tipping and casinos.....

 

Having said that, I did find an aussie operator who had the cruise I wanted for approx $200 each dearer, that what I could find on line from us sites (and the cabins were far better imo) so I'm not as concerned as I used to be about this issue.

 

BUT I do hate knowing there is disparity out there. :mad:

[stingau]

IM AN AUSSIE AND I TIP !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Ok after having said that I love the auto tip method. As an Aussie we are not familiar with tipping so to avoid missing someone this method is perfect.

 

On our previous cruises all out of Aust/NZ we have kept the auto tipping, gave our cabin stewardess cash up front on day one when we met her and told her that was an extra for her no need for others to know. We also found out she had a daughter back at home the same age as our daughter so we brought her daughter a silve necklace from "our daughter to her daughter".

 

This stewardess was the nicest prson we have met in regards to cruise staff. when sailing out of Aust we always requet the same suite and have been lucky to have had her on 3 occassions. Our children know her and look forward ea cruise to seeing her.

 

Given the above ......oh we also tipped the waiters at our dining table ( traditional dining) on the last night.... I do not concider myself cheap.

 

I do admit I still am unsure when on land who to tip and how much etc. I have only been to the States on 3 occasions and 2 of those have been deployments to Military Bases so no tipping. I am trying to find out protocols for tipping hotels taxi's etc but find so much conflicting info I dont even think Americans know what is right or not.....lol

 

 

Ill get off my soapbox now

[BruceMuzz]

I am still waiting for a reply to my questions Brucemuzz.

 

Your original comment was that Aussies do not tip - there was no indication that this meant 'the majority of Australians'. Yet you categorically state that you have never said that 'all Australians do not tip. True. So there is a difference between 'all' and 'Australians'? Perhaps the grammar rules also are different in our respective countries.

 

Like Linda, I do not want to be double charged. I have no idea of what the other people on the cruise I will be taking have paid, but I will definitely try to find this out in the most circumspect way. I have never even considered this on previous cruises. Other posters (Europeans) have commented that they, too, pay higher charges. Yet they are used to tipping. This tends to negate the premise that Australians are charged more because they do not tip. I know for a fact that there are not 'millions' of Australians who do not tip. We have a low population. Other posters have commented that as we are a small market, we should not be given the discounts given to U.S. travelers. I find it difficult to believe that there would be so many Australians on a cruise that the short fall would be U.S. $84,000. For our 20 day cruise, we will be paying approximately $440.00. (pre-paid) There must have been a huge number of Australians on this cruise you are referring to. But then, I am not party to the statistics you receive. There is obviously something very wrong with the system that allows this to happen. I would rather pay more to ensure that all crew are paid a reasonable wage than to have aspersions cast on my character by the crew and other passengers that I am 'tight'. This is making me feel very uncomfortable about my forthcoming cruise. So I can only hope that the non Australians on this cruise are more tolerant.

 

It is easy to make these comments when you can hide behind a cloak on anonymity.

 

Be brave and reveal the truth. What is your position? Which cruise line do you work for? Your comments would have more credibility if you were more forthcoming.

 

I have tried to be polite but my patience is wearing thin. Thank you to all who have commented on this issue in the same vein. United we stand etc etc.

 

Charlie,

 

When an average 94% of a group of people do the same thing over and over and over again, it becomes too easy to generalize and say that these people are a certain way. On the positive side, I find it very easy to say that Aussies are fun people. Are all of your countrymen fun people? Probably not. But so many of them are, so often, that it is very easy to generalize and assume that all (or nearly all) Aussies are that way.

Unfortunately the tipping issue works the same way.

 

You are correct in stating that there is something wrong with a system that allows this sort of thing to happen.

I truly wish that the cruiselines would be more forthcoming in their communications with the cruising public. Unfortunately they do not accept my recommendations on the subject. And they seem unwilling to change the system to make it work better.

 

But then, the only groups that seem to have a challenge with the system are the Aussies, the Kiwis, and to some extent, the Brits. Everyone else seems to have figured it out on their own. I'm not quite sure how that works - or doesn't work.

In any case, I am not allowed to divulge my employer. Cruise Lines are very fussy about their employees giving out "inside information". Suffice it to say that I mave managed a few dozen large and small, Mass Market and Luxury, cruise ships for several different companies over the past several decades.

I'm hiding behind the same cloak as you..............................

 

At the end if the day, a free market economy allows a business to offer lower prices to the most desirable customers and higher prices to the less desirable customers.

My best advice to you - and all Australians - is to make yourselves more desirable to the Cruise Lines. It's really up to you to decide which group you want to be included with. You are such a small market that the cruise lines don't really need your business - unless you are more desirable than the others.

If they really want you, they will come up with prices that make you want to cruise with them.

[G'ma]

I don't think anyone is being ripped off. It simply is what it is. It's what the market supports.

 

Different prices abound everywhere.

 

The coffee I like is 12.95 near where I live. In Arizona, it's 6.95 and in Oregon, it's 8.99...same coffee, same size.

 

Gasoline in Jersey right now averages about 2.45 at my gas station...down the street a couple of miles - same chain - it's 2.79 a gallon.

 

Cigarettes by the carton in NJ including tax is 70.00.... Cross a bridge to Delaware and the same carton is 42.00.

 

A friend of mine who lives in Virginia pays twice what I do in rent for a similar sized apartment.....and my son who lives on Maui pays 3 times as much.

 

It's what the market will endure......The choice is to buy or not buy....

 

Cruise lines will charge what they can anywhere. In places where there is plenty of competition, the prices will be lower than in other places where the choices are few. It's economics 101.

 

As for the restrictions on booking with US agents for a better price; they set their prices based on their formula and have every right to restrict bookings from other areas. There is nothing fair or unfair about it at all. If somebody doesn't like the price, don't book.

[elcuchio24]

Aussies do tip.....

Though I have always wondered why when US ships employ crew that come from third world countries and who have never actually resided in the US. However, personally we tip our cabin steward and drink and food waiter and some bar staff.

 

They aren't us ships. Most flagged in central america.

[Travelcat2]

If cruise lines paid their staff a living wage, this issue would not be so important. Luxury lines include tips in the price of the fare -- the service is still great, the staff is happy. . . . it is a whole lot easier. Even if staff wages remained the same (which is really sad), adding the tips into the cruise price would be fair to everyone. Cruise ships are running full -- things have never been better for the industry (according to some articles I've read). On a side note, it wouldn't hurt to include water and soft drinks. . . . it's a shame to hear how many people have to schlep their own water onto a cruise ship. At least they could offer a soft drink package at their cost. JMHO.

[daisy-mae]

For what it's worth, in support of our Aussie friends, I would like to offer another example of dual pricing.

 

The same type of system seems to exist for booking rail travel in Europe. We are in Canada, and our internet queries regarding train schedules and fares first go to a US-based Eurail website, which adds a premium to the cost of the reservation. We have found that the fares are much more reasonable if we book directly with SNCF (the national railway in France).

 

Many people are unaware of that fact, and most likely a brick and mortar travel agency would be required to book through the North American website. The internet provides more alternatives, but one has to know what is available.

 

I'm not sure if the same applies to booking cruises, though. But I have no doubt that the "middlemen" are taking their share of the pie, and find it hard to understand why there are so many "doubting Thomases" on these boards.

[stingau]

Charlie,

 

When an average 94% of a group of people do the same thing over and over and over again, it becomes too easy to generalize and say that these people are a certain way. On the positive side, I find it very easy to say that Aussies are fun people. Are all of your countrymen fun people? Probably not. But so many of them are, so often, that it is very easy to generalize and assume that all (or nearly all) Aussies are that way.

Unfortunately the tipping issue works the same way.

 

You are correct in stating that there is something wrong with a system that allows this sort of thing to happen.

I truly wish that the cruiselines would be more forthcoming in their communications with the cruising public. Unfortunately they do not accept my recommendations on the subject. And they seem unwilling to change the system to make it work better.

 

But then, the only groups that seem to have a challenge with the system are the Aussies, the Kiwis, and to some extent, the Brits. Everyone else seems to have figured it out on their own. I'm not quite sure how that works - or doesn't work.

In any case, I am not allowed to divulge my employer. Cruise Lines are very fussy about their employees giving out "inside information". Suffice it to say that I mave managed a few dozen large and small, Mass Market and Luxury, cruise ships for several different companies over the past several decades.

I'm hiding behind the same cloak as you..............................

 

At the end if the day, a free market economy allows a business to offer lower prices to the most desirable customers and higher prices to the less desirable customers.

My best advice to you - and all Australians - is to make yourselves more desirable to the Cruise Lines. It's really up to you to decide which group you want to be included with. You are such a small market that the cruise lines don't really need your business - unless you are more desirable than the others.

If they really want you, they will come up with prices that make you want to cruise with them.

 

Bruce by your comment that you work in management for a cruiseline in your opinion where do I stand. As an aussie when I booked I was unaware of this issue, when travelling oversea's it is always better to book direct with the end supplier and cut out the middlemen. This is not always a good idea for those who are either to lazy or cannot put together an intinerary. ( my SIL's call me "stan the plan man")

 

I have had in place an intinerary since before xmas. Everything locked in and colour coded in a spreadsheet. Allowances are included for such things as late flights etc.

 

So what happens when as an aussie who booked with a US based internet TA rocks up to board. Given that I have told numerous cruiseline staff that I am an Aussiewho has booked with a US based TA and have been told by AUST based cruiseline reps to speak directly with the US.

 

Should I have on hand Legal Reps or should I seek Legal Advise now if they may reject me from boarding. As a member of the ADF I have access to legal advice so I may go check to see if I am able to acess any American based similar schemes.

 

I sail in 3 weeks

[Charlie Chan]

Thank you BruceMuzz and others for the clarification. It seems that there are 2 issues involved. According to BruceMuzz, cruise lines charge some regions more because of tipping customs. Australians pay the most based on our poor tipping record; then come Europeans and UK folk. The Japanese seem to be a bit of an anomaly as they both tip and have high prices.

 

I'd still like to know if all cruise lines do this - or is it just the one you work for. Our cruise certainly does not fall into the 'cheap and cheerful' range and we are not staying in a suite!

 

This does not explain the huge difference in costs (over U.S. $2000 saving by booking online for our trip). This more than covers the prepaid tipping so I imagine the $1600 left is straight profit for the cruise line. Or is it distributed amongst the crew? The second explanation offered is just that they can so they do. Awareness raising through forums and more complaining to cruise lines and agents may help to make the system fairer. I suppose that really depends on whether people 'out there' really believe this is unjust. As a small nation, we have little sway with multi-nationals and need the support of others in this battle. I would hate to think that visitors to Australia are treated in this way.

 

Daisy-mae - we have also found this regarding train fares. We never use Eurail sites. Last year, we booked a train fare from London to Liverpool with Virgin trains for 4 British pounds (can't find the symbol) compared with the Eurail price of over 60 pounds.

 

So my final comments on this issue - As so few Australians apparently tip, the information provided by BruceMuzz may encourage even more to choose not to if they believe they have already paid a premium to cover tips. You can't really blame them. So our reputation will only get worse and worse. Sigh. There needs to be far more transparency out there with what fares cover.

 

Stingau - there have been a number of threads on other forums about the problem (?) of booking with an online agent. Like you, we have made it clear that we are not U.S. citizens. The TA even rang us here to save us the price of the phone calls. There has been some scaremongering that non U.S. citizens can be denied boarding as the prices apply only to those citizens. Another poster has followed this up by carefully checking the cruise contract which makes no mention of this as a grounds for exclusion. The only reason you can be denied boarding is if you do not have the correct paper work regarding passports, visas etc. I could certainly understand it if it was clearly stated that this was a special fare only available to U.S. citizens. I know that occasionally in Australia, we also have 'local deals' where evidence of state residency is required. (But before I am attacked on this issue, it is only a saving of a few dollars - not thousands). There has only been one case reported - in NZ - and the person involved said they had to pay extra but has never followed up with any further comments, so it is a bit strange. Have a great trip.

 

Back to work - can't believe I've spent my days off here.

[BruceMuzz]

Bruce by your comment that you work in management for a cruiseline in your opinion where do I stand. As an aussie when I booked I was unaware of this issue, when travelling oversea's it is always better to book direct with the end supplier and cut out the middlemen. This is not always a good idea for those who are either to lazy or cannot put together an intinerary. ( my SIL's call me "stan the plan man")

 

I have had in place an intinerary since before xmas. Everything locked in and colour coded in a spreadsheet. Allowances are included for such things as late flights etc.

 

So what happens when as an aussie who booked with a US based internet TA rocks up to board. Given that I have told numerous cruiseline staff that I am an Aussiewho has booked with a US based TA and have been told by AUST based cruiseline reps to speak directly with the US.

 

Should I have on hand Legal Reps or should I seek Legal Advise now if they may reject me from boarding. As a member of the ADF I have access to legal advice so I may go check to see if I am able to acess any American based similar schemes.

 

I sail in 3 weeks

 

I suppose that the good news is that there is almost a complete disconnect between the cruise line head office and the ship's onboard management.

Most people working on the ship do not know how, when, or where you booked your cuise, how much you paid, or withwhich currency. And they really don't care about these issues.

 

It works just like the airlines.

If you are on the manifest, you can sail.

In all my years on ships I have never heard of anyone being denied boarding because he/she booked incorrectly.

[BruceMuzz]

Thank you BruceMuzz and others for the clarification. It seems that there are 2 issues involved. According to BruceMuzz, cruise lines charge some regions more because of tipping customs. Australians pay the most based on our poor tipping record; then come Europeans and UK folk. The Japanese seem to be a bit of an anomaly as they both tip and have high prices.

 

I'd still like to know if all cruise lines do this - or is it just the one you work for. Our cruise certainly does not fall into the 'cheap and cheerful' range and we are not staying in a suite!

 

This does not explain the huge difference in costs (over U.S. $2000 saving by booking online for our trip). This more than covers the prepaid tipping so I imagine the $1600 left is straight profit for the cruise line. Or is it distributed amongst the crew? The second explanation offered is just that they can so they do. Awareness raising through forums and more complaining to cruise lines and agents may help to make the system fairer. I suppose that really depends on whether people 'out there' really believe this is unjust. As a small nation, we have little sway with multi-nationals and need the support of others in this battle. I would hate to think that visitors to Australia are treated in this way.

 

Daisy-mae - we have also found this regarding train fares. We never use Eurail sites. Last year, we booked a train fare from London to Liverpool with Virgin trains for 4 British pounds (can't find the symbol) compared with the Eurail price of over 60 pounds.

 

So my final comments on this issue - As so few Australians apparently tip, the information provided by BruceMuzz may encourage even more to choose not to if they believe they have already paid a premium to cover tips. You can't really blame them. So our reputation will only get worse and worse. Sigh. There needs to be far more transparency out there with what fares cover.

 

Stingau - there have been a number of threads on other forums about the problem (?) of booking with an online agent. Like you, we have made it clear that we are not U.S. citizens. The TA even rang us here to save us the price of the phone calls. There has been some scaremongering that non U.S. citizens can be denied boarding as the prices apply only to those citizens. Another poster has followed this up by carefully checking the cruise contract which makes no mention of this as a grounds for exclusion. The only reason you can be denied boarding is if you do not have the correct paper work regarding passports, visas etc. I could certainly understand it if it was clearly stated that this was a special fare only available to U.S. citizens. I know that occasionally in Australia, we also have 'local deals' where evidence of state residency is required. (But before I am attacked on this issue, it is only a saving of a few dollars - not thousands). There has only been one case reported - in NZ - and the person involved said they had to pay extra but has never followed up with any further comments, so it is a bit strange. Have a great trip.

 

Back to work - can't believe I've spent my days off here.

 

Actually I am SPECULATING that the cruise lines charge you more because you are from a small market that is not particularly desirable - due to the tipping issues. I have no solid inside information that this is indeed official cruise line policy - although the subject has been discussed in the corporate offices for many years. And yes, nearly all the North American-based cruise lines have this pricing policy for Aussies and Kiwis (and Brits and Japanese). You may also be interested to know that residents of certain American States are offered lower fares than residents of certain other American States. And the Canadians here will be happy to tell you about the frequent times when special offers are sent to US Citizens living just a few kilometers away (on the other side of the border), but these same offers are not available to Canadians.

 

I formerly worked for an Asian-based cruise line that decided that Americans and Germans were undesirable passengers because they complained too much and brought lawsuits every time they didn't like something.

If an American or German tried to book a cruise with us, they were either quoted an outrageously high rate, or they were told that the ship was completely booked.

Is this stereotyping? Absolutely.

Do ALL Germans and Americans complain all the time and sue everybody? Of course not.

Is it fair? Absolutely not.

But they still did it.

 

Are any additional profits from your fare distributed to the crew?

Other than making up a percentage of the tips you might choose to remove - No.

 

As I mentioned earlier, the tipped crew have union contracts that are designed to protect them in case the ship is in a situation where expected tips do not happen for some reason.

This normally includes accidents, dry docks, and cruises with high numbers of Aussies, Kiwis, or Brits.

Most tipped crew on ships are officially paid an average of US$1 per day. Anything they hope to earn above that comes from tips.

In case those tips are not forthcoming, their contract with the cruise line stipulates that they will receive a guaranteed minimum salary for the month - the difference being covered by the cruise line. Unfortunately this minimum guarantee salary is only about 60% of what the crew would normally earn if tips were forthcoming.

In these cases, the cruise line management is not happy with shelling out large amounts of money to cover lack of tipping - and the crew is equally unhappy working as hard and long as always but earning only 60% of their pay for the month.

A relatively high percentage of crew will resign from the company if they are told they will be assigned to a ship or itinerary with high numbers of Aussies, Kiwis, or Brits.

Considering the massive shortage of cruise line employees we are currently experiencing, it is not good for anyone to give crewmembers good reasons to resign.

 

I have personally spoken with many passengers who are unhappy and uninformed about this tipping issue.

 

Despite language differences and different social customs, the Chinese, Japanese, Germans, Italians, Spanish, Mexicans, and South Americans - among many others - seem to completely understand the standard cruise line tipping system, go along with it, and don't seem to have any problems or complaints.

 

I cannot understand why only the Aussies, Kiwis, and to some extent the Brits - all of whom have the advantages of native English skills and good communication with the Western World - seem so completely uninformed about this issue.

Are their travel agents so dishonest or unhelpful?

Do they not read Cruise critic and other cruise websites where this subject has been literally talked and beaten to death?

The UK even has it's own local version of Cruisecritic.

EVERY cruise travel guide book covers this subject.

It seems that the system is already quite transparent to anyone who researches the subject of cruises.

Different versions of this tipping system have been in place for nearly 100 years. This is hardly a new development in the shipping industry.

FYI - It was officially started on the White Star Line with the introduction of the HMS Titanic.

 

I hope that at least some of these answers will be of help to you.

[Tanderra]

I say "try again" because twice my post has been lost whilst typing :mad:

Bruce, your answers have only served to put me off cruising.

You say you have never heard of anyone being denied boarding if they have booked wrongly. We were persuaded to book with a land-based TA instead of online like we usually do. Our TA provided our cruise line with our names the wrong way around...our surnames as our first names. We cannot access our cruiseline site because of this. Our TA told us 2 weeks ago that he was trying to rectify this, so far it hasn't been done. We are supposed to sail in 5 weeks. We 'phoned the cruiseline and they told us that it was totally up to our TA and to be quite honest, they weren't interested....not good! We haven't even got any documents, even though we paid in full 6 months ago.

So, will be denied boarding if this is not rectified?

 

You also said that we are such a small market that cruiselines really don't need our business. Why do they come here then? That was a statement from you which we didn't need to know about.

 

You said a relatively high percentage of crew will resign from the company if they are told they will be assigned to a ship or itinerary with a high number of Aussies, Kiwis or Brits......another reason to feel shunned.

 

You said if an American or German tried to book a cruise (with your Asian cruiseline) they were either quoted an outrageously high rate or were told that the ship was completely booked :eek: :eek: :eek:....do you honestly think this is honest practice?????...it reeks of bigotry, just as your reasons why cruiselines or crews don't like Aussies, Kiwis or Brits.

 

And by the way, we happily paid our gratutities in advance and will happily tip again when we are onboard.

 

Australians who are not aware of all these practices quite obviously will not be given the chance to learn, going by your statements.

 

All this is so very, very sad :(

[bar_20]

Bruce you had mentioned a union contract in a previous post. The only ship that I am aware of that has a union crew is the NCL's Song of America that sails out of Hawaii. If that is the case I can see why you would have a large amount of Aussie passengers. My question is what about all the other cruise ships that don't have union workers and make significantly less than you. How is their shortfall on tips handled?

[BruceMuzz]

Bruce you had mentioned a union contract in a previous post. The only ship that I am aware of that has a union crew is the NCL's Song of America that sails out of Hawaii. If that is the case I can see why you would have a large amount of Aussie passengers. My question is what about all the other cruise ships that don't have union workers and make significantly less than you. How is their shortfall on tips handled?

 

You folks need to do your homework a bit better.

You are talking about NCL's PRIDE of America.

Song of America was the name of a former RCCL ship.

 

The only major cruiseline that is NOT unionized is Disney.

On all the others, all rank and file employees are represented by several different international maritime unions. These unions negotiate crew contracts that stipulate salaries and working conditions.

On most major cruise lines, most of the Officers are also union members.

[BruceMuzz]

I say "try again" because twice my post has been lost whilst typing :mad:

Bruce, your answers have only served to put me off cruising.

You say you have never heard of anyone being denied boarding if they have booked wrongly. We were persuaded to book with a land-based TA instead of online like we usually do. Our TA provided our cruise line with our names the wrong way around...our surnames as our first names. We cannot access our cruiseline site because of this. Our TA told us 2 weeks ago that he was trying to rectify this, so far it hasn't been done. We are supposed to sail in 5 weeks. We 'phoned the cruiseline and they told us that it was totally up to our TA and to be quite honest, they weren't interested....not good! We haven't even got any documents, even though we paid in full 6 months ago.

So, will be denied boarding if this is not rectified?

 

You also said that we are such a small market that cruiselines really don't need our business. Why do they come here then? That was a statement from you which we didn't need to know about.

 

You said a relatively high percentage of crew will resign from the company if they are told they will be assigned to a ship or itinerary with a high number of Aussies, Kiwis or Brits......another reason to feel shunned.

 

You said if an American or German tried to book a cruise (with your Asian cruiseline) they were either quoted an outrageously high rate or were told that the ship was completely booked :eek: :eek: :eek:....do you honestly think this is honest practice?????...it reeks of bigotry, just as your reasons why cruiselines or crews don't like Aussies, Kiwis or Brits.

 

And by the way, we happily paid our gratutities in advance and will happily tip again when we are onboard.

 

Australians who are not aware of all these practices quite obviously will not be given the chance to learn, going by your statements.

 

All this is so very, very sad :(

 

If your names are not corrected, you may have to spend a few more minutes at check-in, explaining the error. The cruise line will need to correct their manifest to avoid any problems with the immigration authorities. Otherwise you should not worry. You will be accepted with little problem.

 

In the cruise industry, once you have booked with a travel agent, the cruise line will only talk to him. There were too many prior cases where passengers tried to play the Travel Agent against the Cruise line, and vice-versa, and then complained when the answers were not the same. All the cruise lines operate this way.

 

Yes, Australia/New Zealand is a very small market. Why do the cruise lines sail there? Because not everyone who sails there is from Australia and New Zealand. Cruise Lines are always searching for a new location to cruise. You can appreciate that a place like Tahiti or Antarctica is an even smaller market than yours, but cruise lines still sail there.

 

Quoting a higher fare or falsely claiming to be fully booked is hardly a new idea. Upscale restaurants have been doing the very same thing with undesirable customers for centuries. If you show up at a 3 star Michelin Restaurant in a t-shirt and baseball cap, looking as if you don't have 2 pennies to rub together, the place - which seems empty - is suddenly "fully booked". Is it dishonest? I think so. Is it illegal? No. A business has every right to choose who they want to do business with - just as you have every right to refuse to do business with someone whose practices or products you do not like.

 

You don't like being shunned because of your nationality? I agree completely with you. It's no fun when too many of your countrymen have given the impression that everyone from your country is a certain way.

I have exactly the same problem. I carry an American passport and travel frequently. I have been denied so many international employment opportunities only on the basis of my passport. There are many hotels and restaurants in Europe and Asia that will not even let me in the door if they see that passport. I hide it very carefully and ensure that I can speak the local languages to explain that I am "not like those others".

 

I suggest that you encourage your fellow Australians to do their homework before they purchase a cruise. All the information is right here - and it's free. Nobody needs to walk blindly into a cruise holiday.