Are we being screwed by GCT for the Paul Gaugin cruise?

[new_cruiser]

Neatly buried in the fine print on GCT's website is the following:

 

"Grand Circle reserves the right to correct promotional or pricing errors at any time, or to increase the program price in the event of cost increases due to changes in airfares, cruise fares, currency fluctuations, park fee increases, taxes, or fuel surcharges. Grand Circle reserves the right to decline to accept or retain any person as a member of any tour or to cancel or alter the tour without notice, in which event your sole remedy shall be a prorated refund for any unused portion of the trip. Hotels and other accommodations are subject to change.

 

Grand Circle reserves the right to change the departure date of any trip, as well as cancel any trip or optional extension that does not reach a minimal level of participation."

 

I, for one, will cross this company off my list of prospective purveyors of travel!

Ishmael, If those terms are the reason you are crossing GTC off, you would also cross RSSC off because they have very similar terms and probably Windstar. You could use Star Clipper.

 

This is from the RSSC terms and conditions on their website:

"If governmental action results in any element of a government or quasi-government tax, fee or assessment exceeding estimates used by RSSC in charging its guests, we reserve the right to pass through the additional amount. Similarly, RSSC reserves the right to impose or pass through fuel surcharges, security charges or similar incidental surcharges. No right of cancellation exists under either of these circumstances and RSSC has the right to refuse passage unless the additional amount is paid prior to departure.

 

RSSC reserves the right to correct and not to honor any published price that it determines to be erroneous due to printing, electronic or clerical error. Fares and airfare supplements quoted in this brochure are those in effect at the time of printing. If factors dictate the need for fare increases, RSSC may do so at any time without prior notice."

 

Then farther down:

"b. Final payment of the Cruise Fare must be received ninety (90) days prior to the scheduled departure of the Vessel or scheduled air transportation when included, subject to changes in the Cruise Fare which may be affected at any time up to thirty (30) days prior to scheduled departure and any increases in Prepaid Charges in effect at the time of sailing. Company reserves the right to collect any such increased cruise fare and/or Prepaid Charges at the time of sailing."

 

Windstar at least explicitly allows cancellation without cancellation fee if they increase your fare though not if they increase the port charges:

"1. Additions to Fare, Non-Discountable Amount, Taxes and Surcharges: (a) The fare that you paid was determined far in advance of Initial Departure on the basis of then-existing projections of fuel and other costs. In the event of an increase in fuel or other costs above amounts projected, we have the right to increase the fare at any time up to Initial Departure and to require payment of the additional fare prior to Initial Departure. We have the right to refuse to transport you unless the additional fare is paid. Within seven (7) days after you are notified of the additional fare (but no later than Initial Departure), you may elect to surrender this contract to us for cancellation, whereupon you will receive the Refund Amount. Cancellation fees do not apply to this type of refund.

 

(b) Your cruise fare includes a "Non-Discountable Amount." That portion of the fare is both non-commissionable to travel agents and not subject to reduction in the event of a percentage discount promotion, 2 for 1 promotion or otherwise. In addition to your cruise fare, you will also be charged an amount for Taxes. That term, as used by us, refers to certain taxes, fees and charges imposed by governmental or quasi-governmental authorities, including port authorities, relating to any aspect of your cruise or tour. If governmental action results in any element of Taxes exceeding the estimates used by us for purposes of computing the quoted amount, we reserve the right to pass through the extra amount. Similarly, we reserve the right to impose or pass through fuel surcharges, security surcharges or similar incidental surcharges. No right of cancellation exists under either of these circumstances."

 

Star Clipper on the other hand says they won't increase the fare once it is confirmed under deposit or final payment has been made:

"GUARANTEE OF FARES

Passengers with confirmed bookings under deposit, or who have made final payment, shall be protected in the event of a price increase. However, excluding the above, Star Clippers reserves the right to increase all prices appearing in this brochure without prior notice, including port charges, airport facility charges, insurance and taxes/fees. These charges are implemented by various governments and as such are subject to change without notice and any increase must be paid by the passenger. Information contained in this brochure supersedes all prior brochures."

 

I looked at these particular lines because I currently have a trip booked on Windstar and I'm considering future trips on the others. I wonder if any of the other luxury lines have a policy more like Star Clipper.

[JDMOR]

I think the big difference is that with GCT/Vantage, you pay a hefty cancellation fee any time even if you cancel well prior to the final payment due date.

[Call me Ishmael]

Ishmael, If those terms are the reason you are crossing GTC off, you would also cross RSSC off because they have very similar terms and probably Windstar. You could use Star Clipper.

 

No, my reason for crossing GCT off my list is that they appear to have repeatedly made "errors" in their pricing which they attempt to pass on to the customer at the time of final billing, pass on currency fluctuations to the customer and otherwise seem to feel that the customer is a sheep waiting to be shorn.

 

No doubt that the typical contract throughout the cruise industry (which now mostly consists of two large companies) is totally one-sided. However, I refuse to patronize any company, cruise or otherwise, that does not do the right thing with its customers.

 

I'm not selecting my cruises based on the contractual language but rather on the interest in customer goodwill reflected by reports. Isn't that what this site is all about?

 

I do have a prospective issue with RSSC for which I will start a new thread entitled "Port Fees?".

[Dolebludger]

There may be something I'm missing here, but when I book with Radisson, the cost of the cruise is "locked in" except for things like taxes and port charges which are subject to change, of course. Can't control the governments! And if the cruise price drops, so does my price.

 

And if I understand correctly, Radisson also books any air or hotel I book through them when I book, locking in those charges, except for taxes and government fees that may change.

 

Unless I totall off base about the above, I can't see why GCT, as a "travel packager", does not do the same. If they did, there might be some variance due, again, to changes in taxes and governmental fees, but that should be nothing like $1400.

 

I'm eager to learn exactly what GCT's problem is.

 

Thanks,

Richard:) :) :)

[new_cruiser]

There may be something I'm missing here, but when I book with Radisson, the cost of the cruise is "locked in" except for things like taxes and port charges which are subject to change, of course. Can't control the governments! And if the cruise price drops, so does my price.

 

And if I understand correctly, Radisson also books any air or hotel I book through them when I book, locking in those charges, except for taxes and government fees that may change.

 

Richard,

That is what I though too. Afterall, what is the point of booking a 2 for 1 fare if the cruise company can arbitrarily raise it 30 days before sailing? However, when I look at the RSSC cruise contract it says they can raise the cruise fare up to 30 days prior to sailing (well after final payment was made). I didn't quote them below but there was also stuff about modifying the price for air and hotel. Contractually none of your price is locked in until very close to sailing.

 

I'm not happy with those provisions though I'm also not terribly worried that RSSC would exercise those rights. They depend a lot of repeat business and I expect that they would lose a lot of customer loyalty if they started telling customers that the fare for their cruise had gone up $1000.

[new_cruiser]

No, my reason for crossing GCT off my list is that they appear to have repeatedly made "errors" in their pricing which they attempt to pass on to the customer at the time of final billing, pass on currency fluctuations to the customer and otherwise seem to feel that the customer is a sheep waiting to be shorn.

 

No doubt that the typical contract throughout the cruise industry (which now mostly consists of two large companies) is totally one-sided. However, I refuse to patronize any company, cruise or otherwise, that does not do the right thing with its customers.

I agree that a company regularly and casually exercising that contract provision would not be one I want to do business with. I would probably take the risk of doing business with a company that has the provision but hasn't been exercising it and seems to be dealing fairly with customers if I wanted the product enough.

 

I'm not savvy enough about the industry to know who the two large companies are. I can think of 3 big ones. Carnival and HAL both have a similar provision to what I quoted from Windstar (Windstar's contract looked almost identical to its owner, HAL's, contract). At least they include an explicit statement that the customer can cancel without cancellation fees if they raise the price.

 

RCCL's contract doesn't say anything about changing the fare that I could find and Celebrity (which it owns) states that the fare price is protected -once the deposit is in it can't go up.

[flahagan]

Well.........are you ready for the end (probably) of the story?

 

This morning, the 2nd couple we're traveling with called GCT to verify the correct cost of the remaining balance, and were told the amount they have on their final invoice. They asked "Now this is the correct amount we owe?" They were told yes. So, they paid the balance off with their credit card. They called me and said everything's right, there's no increase in the cost, the first couple must have talked to someone who wasn't looking at the right invoice. Great. So I filled out the credit authorization form and prepared the envelope to go out in tomorrow's mail, as did the first couple.

 

Late this afternoon, I got a call from the Director of Public Relations at GCT, who said she'd been informed of this thread on the Cruisecritic website. And Yes, she was sorry to inform me that the invoice price WAS incorrect, that the corrected price was going to be $1400 more per couple. But, if we didn't want to take the new price, they were offering a full refund, including the $125 per person penalty normally charged. She was sorry but she couldn't do anything about the trip insurance we had taken privately, but had we taken it through them we would have gotten that back too.

 

I told her that our friends had just called in and charged the invoice amount this morning, so how could this be? She was surprised and said she'd check into it and call me back, which she did promptly. It seems it was STILL wrong in the computer today. I questioned why this didn't turn up earlier, and she said they just discovered the error Jan. 27. Then how did we receive an invoice dated Feb. 3 with the still-wrong amount on it? Apologies again, and she said this was "a very rare occurence". Apparently, the incorrect price was on the website and given to the agents, but the "correct" price was in the catalogues. She said letters would be sent out next week to those whose invoices were incorrect.

I questioned these business practices, as we used to own our own business, and if we made a mistake and undercharged a customer, we stood by the price and ate the loss for the goodwill of the business. But this is their policy, and it is in their fine print.

So, I guess the lesson learned is, read every word of the fine print, and consider the absolutely worst-case scenario that could happen. If you can't live with it, dont' even consider it.

[Leejnd4]

It sounds to me like the reason those clauses are in the other companies' fine print is as protection in case something unusual happens resulting in having to raise the price...but they rarely if ever have to do so. Whereas, it seems GCT uses their clauses to allow them to arbitrarily raise prices as a regular practice, and leave their customers with no recourse. They're using it as a tool to increase their profits, rather than a guard against suffering an unexpected loss.

 

GCT, if you are reading this, I hope you all realize the damage this is doing to your reputation, and the loss of business that will result. I have no doubt that you will lose far more business than these artificially increased prices you are trying to stick to these poor people here. Trust me, we are all a very vocal bunch here in CC, and the members who will be reading this are your target customer base. Your name will become mudd pretty quickly unless you act now to do the right thing for these customers. Of course, if you are such a huge corporate behemoth that you just don't feel the need to exhibit any business ethics, then I suppose you'll just keep on screwing your customers.

 

LeeAnne

[ridolphi]

Well put LeeAnne - I agree with everything you said, and by the way GCT, I too am a Travel Agent, although I only work for one, but I like to think if our Agency made that kind of error, we would stand by it and eat the difference for the goodwill of the client!!! Suck it up GCT and do right by these people - its your error not theirs and they booked with you in good faith!!!

[bbtondo]

I've been reading this thread and really feel sorry for the problem you are having. I went to the GCT website a month or two ago and couldn't believe how low their prices were for the PG cruise. I even called them to confirm the price. It was tempting, BUT, I booked with RSSC because of RSSC's reputation. I'm SO glad I did. I would be very nervous if I had booked with GCT.

 

Good luck with this issue!

[WesW]

flahagan; it is indeed frustrating to hear, that even after corporate GCT was made

aware of their mistake, and considering your good intentions, did not make you

completely whole by giving you the price as quoted...tho, at least you will get most

of your money back...best of luck in future cruise plans..

 

ps...pls send a letter to the Conde Nast Ombudsman, so the larger traveling public can be made aware of this poor practice..Letters should be sent to Ombudsman, Condé Nast Traveler, 4 Times Square, New York, New York 10036, and should include documentation and any relevant photographs. Please note that we cannot respond to submissions sent via e-mail..r/wes

[HaloV]

JDMOR, Please let us know how your cruise ends up. I'm sure everything will go OK for you. I think you receive your docs about 7 days before your trip. Let me know!! Large companies are bound to have problem at times. We have had problems with RCCL & Celebrity, but they have not been crossed off of our lists. I am always very leery about great deals. My family (6 of us) got burned by a TA weeks before a cruise. Thank goodness another TA helped us out. I try to find out everything I can about a new company or cruise line. I keep a very good paper trail now. Happy Crusing, H

[ridolphi]

agree with Col Wes, send your complaint to Ombudsman and anyone else that was suggested - get it out there. And, I would send a formal complaint in writing to GCT, even though they probably won't respond at this point and put it on all these message boards you can find. What do you have to loose at this point? Its their reputation. Good Luck - sure hope you all can find something else to do together and still have a nice vacation.

[Dolebludger]

One thing this thread has brought up to me ---- I don't like the language in RADISSON'S contract one bit at all. Too arbitrary as to when it can raise prices post-booking. I well understand the need for flexibility as to government fees and taxes. Also I understand a circumstance wherein Radisson my book my air or hotel with a provider that stops providing before my vacation, causing Radisson to have to cover the situation at a higher price. Frankly, I doubt that any court would interpret it as broadly as it reads. But who can file a suit in a distant state for something like $1400? Does not make economic sense.

 

It's a good thing that Radisson is not actually taking advantage of all of this language. If they were to start (as GCT has done) they would lose us and probably thousands more repeat cruisers. For now, I'll try to be optimistic about Radisson. I've worked in corporate enfironments before, and know that upper management probably is not even aware this contractual language exists. Probably, it was drafted by the legal department and found its way into the contract without much executive review. If I were to call Mark Conroy and tell him about this language, he would probably say "What???"

 

Thanks,

Richard:) :) :)

[Call me Ishmael]

I'm not savvy enough about the industry to know who the two large companies are. I can think of 3 big ones. Carnival and HAL both have a similar provision to what I quoted from Windstar (Windstar's contract looked almost identical to its owner, HAL's, contract).

 

Carnival cruises owns 12 cruise brands: Carnival Cruise Lines, Princess Cruises, Holland America Line, Costa Cruises, P&O Cruises, AIDA, Cunard Line, Ocean Village, P&O Cruises Australia, Swan Hellenic, Seabourn Cruise Line and Windstar Cruises.

 

Royal Caribbean operates Celebrity in addition to the RCL brand.

[Dolebludger]

True! And from this, we can see that the anti-trust enforcement people at the Justice Department have had a good, long nap!

 

Thankd,

Richard:eek:

[oceanbear]

RSSC has just taken advantage of contractual language to add a "Fuel Surcharge" for cruises in 2005.

[Call me Ishmael]

RSSC has just taken advantage of contractual language to add a "Fuel Surcharge" for cruises in 2005

 

Thanks for the details which are on another thread.

[flahagan]

Thanks again for everyone's support - we've needed it the past few days.

 

Two of the couples were taking this for their 40th anniversaries, so it wasn't just an ordinary vacation. They've shed many tears of disappointment and disbelief. Now I guess we have to rethink and regroup. Right now, none of us has the energy or the heart to really think about another trip. But it's a big wide world, and I'm sure we'll find something wonderful.

 

I forgot to mention that when the Director of Public Relations called the other day and dropped the bomb, she actually said she hoped we'd schedule another trip with them in the future! Can you imagine? I told her we'll go back to planning our own, independent travel as we've always done very successfully in the past.

If only they knew how many customers they're losing just in our neighborhood. We just took a group cruise in Dec., and were looking at the OAT trips to plan something with them for our large, close-knit group. Oh well!

[Leejnd4]

Not only have they lost customers in your neighborhood, they've most assuredly lost many customers in THIS neighborhood - our CC neighborhood! They must not realize how many travelers read these boards, and what a huge blemish this is on their reputation. I'm just stunned at the stupidity.

 

Again, I do hope you find the vacation of your dreams, and pop in here and let us know when you do! :)

 

LeeAnne

[JDMOR]

Flahagan - Be aware that OAT is actually a part of GCT!!! Same operation and rules.

[flahagan]

Yes, I know OAT is part of GCT. Notice I said we WERE looking at their trips. Not anymore. But thanks for pointing it out for others.

[giustot]

flahagan, I'm glad they at least let you cancel withpout penalty. I guess good will isn't worth $700 a person to them. Good luck. Tom.

[JDMOR]

I just received final documents for my 26 Feb PG cruise through Vantage Travel. They did not elect to charge me for the $20 fuel surcharge I understand RSSC is now imposing. So far there has been no change in the original booked package, other than the letter announcing PG no longer serves complementary wine at lunch.

 

I wonder if the adverse postings here on GCT/Vantage tactics had anything to do with it?

[foreveryoung]

I just received final documents for my 26 Feb PG cruise through Vantage Travel. They did not elect to charge me for the $20 fuel surcharge I understand RSSC is now imposing. So far there has been no change in the original booked package, other than the letter announcing PG no longer serves complementary wine at lunch.

 

I wonder if the adverse postings here on GCT/Vantage tactics had anything to do with it?

 

The fuel surcharges are being added to any new bookings or to existing bookings for sailings beginning in May.

 

It would be nice to think that this thread had the effect of making GCT/Vantage re-think their tactics but unless your's is a new booking since the announcement of the fuel surcharge, there shouldn't be a surcharge added since you sail in Feb.