century 10/13 cruise cancelled in Nice

[C 2 C]

The 25% of what one paid towards a future cruise is what Celebrity is offering to cover emotional and ruined vacation, etc. They are refunding the cost of the cruise and paying airline change fees, which would make the majority of passengers whole. Trip insurance should cover the out of pocket if one did not wish to take a 10 hour bus and hotel in Barcelona (which we would not wish to do).

 

The 25% future cruise credit is a joke. Celebrity discounts many cruises by that amount and with the new rules of no OBC if the fare goes down a person can just as easily wait for a Tuesday special. Airline change fees are meaningless if a one way fare is much more than the original return fare paid. I can't get return transportation to our nearest airport for less than $250 per couple. And many people don't bother with trip insurance other than medical coverage.

[Jade13]

And many people don't bother with trip insurance other than medical coverage.

 

 

Well, here is a case where they should!

[Jade13]

. Airline change fees are meaningless if a one way fare is much more than the original return fare paid. I can't get return transportation to our nearest airport for less than $250 per couple. .

 

I don't think it is considered a one way fare if changing the return with the same carrier one used on the way there.

[Maryscooking]

Dear friends:

 

You are suggesting that by refunding the cruise, paying $250 for airline change fee, and giving a 25% credit, should satisfy everybody.

 

I believe that the round-trip airline ticket should be refunded in full, PLUS Celebrity should pay the ticket to get the stranded passenger home.

 

Whether or not there is an argument on Celebrity's side that the passenger used the airline ticket, the fact of the matter is that passengers did not fly half way across the world to have a short weekend in Barcelona/Nice, and I believe that is a reasonable perception.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

 

I, for one, completely agree with you on this.

 

And thank you for your posts attempting to help the cruisers affected by this situation. Would you recommend that cruisers booked for the upcoming TA with insurance contact their insurance company for advice on how to proceed? My first instinct would be to call and explain that Celebrity won't put anything in writing and then ask what coverage I would have in this case.

[Lsimon]

The 25% of what one paid towards a future cruise is what Celebrity is offering to cover emotional and ruined vacation, etc. They are refunding the cost of the cruise and paying airline change fees, which would make the majority of passengers whole. Trip insurance should cover the out of pocket if one did not wish to take a 10 hour bus and hotel in Barcelona (which we would not wish to do).

 

Three points:

 

1. The $250 change fee is only the fee to get the tickets changed. It will be extremely rare that the airlines will issue a last minute ticket for a different date and time without a substantial fare increase to the current rate in addition to the $250 change fee. Fares on American Airlines for the one way to Chicago for the next week are currently $2,789 and up per person. I've never paid more than 1/2 of that for an entire round trip ticket to Europe on any of my past crusies since I've always purchased airfare at least 90 days in advance (when final payment was due).

 

2. Why should insurance be the remedy for passengers when Celebrity is clearly at fault. Insurance should be the remedy for passengers to protect themselves against their own problems (sickness, accidents, weather and theft) not a mechanical breakdown that is clearly the fault of the cruise line. I'm not sure why an insurance company would even bear the brunt of this.

 

3. Even if the $250 change fee does cover expenses then why should the passenger bear the cost of traveling to Barcelona and back for a cancelled cruise. While some percentage of cruisers do take extended pre/post cruise trips there are a very large percentage who will fly to/from the port only for the cruise and have no interest in spending time in Barcelona. Is there any reason why their airfare, and even hotel, costs are any different from the cruise line's fare that is being refunded?

[CruisinGerman]

Mary:

 

I don't think I would purposely go on record with an insurance company as to the fact that I know even before I leave on the trip, that the trip might be cancelled. I would not want to do anything to jeopardize my coverage.

 

I am stating this opinion from the premise that insurance companies are sometimes not exactly angels, and always look for any possible legal loophole not to pay out a claim.

 

I still uphold the fact that Celebrity has 100% liability in this case. If third party insurance does help you, the insurance is going to repeat against Celebrity, who ultimately will be liable.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

[Maryscooking]

Mary:

 

I don't think I would purposely go on record with an insurance company as to the fact that I know even before I leave on the trip, that the trip might be cancelled. I would not want to do anything to jeopardize my coverage.

 

I am stating this opinion from the premise that insurance companies are sometimes not exactly angels, and always look for any possible legal loophole not to pay out a claim.

 

That is exactly what I was wondering about. I guess the best course of action would be to have back up plans in hand before leaving for the trip...hope for the best, plan for the worst.

 

I am sure this situation has made many cruisers look at their travel plans and assumptions regarding cruising in a different light.

[tom_uk]

In US law, what's Celebrity's actual liability as regards the airfares for those passengers who made their own flight arrangements? Isn't the contract between the passenger and Celebrity limited to just the cruise in those cases? I ask because this seems to be the crux of the matter, at least as regards compensation for those passengers.

 

As I say, I'm interested in learning what the position is in US law. I know that in European the position is different as a result of various EU Directives and their (often slightly differing) implementation in the member states.

[pspercy]

http://media.celebritycruises.com/celebrity/content/en_US/pdf/Celebrity_CTC_Eff_08_01_10.pdf

 

This would appear to be the relevant part in this case, for US passengers at least. I suspect it's pretty standard stuff:

 

6. CANCELLATION, DEVIATION OR SUBSTITUTION BY CARRIER:

Carrier may for any reason at any time and without prior notice, cancel, advance, postpone or deviate from any scheduled sailing, port of call, destination,

lodging or any activity on or off the Vessel, or substitute another vessel or port of call, destination, lodging or activity. Carrier shall not be liable for any

claim whatsoever by Passenger, including but not limited to loss, compensation or refund, by reason of such cancellation, advancement, postponement,

substitution or deviation.

In connection with a CruiseTour, Carrier has the same right to cancel, advance, postpone or deviate from any scheduled activity, departure or destination,

or substitute another railcar, bus, destination or lodging or other component of the CruiseTour. Carrier shall not be liable for any claim by Passenger

whatsoever, including but not limited to loss, compensation or refund, by reason of such cancellation, advancement, postponement, substitution or

deviation.

By way of example, and not limitation, Carrier may, without liability, deviate from any scheduled sailing and may otherwise land Passenger and her

property at any port if Carrier believes that the voyage or any Passenger or property may be hindered or adversely affected as a result of hostilities,

blockages, prevailing weather conditions, labor conflicts, strikes onboard or ashore, breakdown of Vessel, congestion, docking difficulties, medical or life saving emergencies or any other cause whatsoever.

Carrier shall have the right to comply with any orders, recommendations, or directions whatsoever given by any governmental entity or by persons purporting to act with such authority and such compliance shall not be deemed a breach of this Agreement entitling the Passenger to assert any claim for liability, compensation or refund.

[ocngypz]

In US law, what's Celebrity's actual liability as regards the airfares for those passengers who made their own flight arrangements? Isn't the contract between the passenger and Celebrity limited to just the cruise in those cases? I ask because this seems to be the crux of the matter, at least as regards compensation for those passengers.

 

As I say, I'm interested in learning what the position is in US law. I know that in European the position is different as a result of various EU Directives and their (often slightly differing) implementation in the member states.

 

Under North American tariff, it is none whether you booked your air through the cruiseline or not. Cruiselines here book air inclusive merely as a convenience for their cruise passengers. While they can assist a cruise/fly passenger in securing another flight, the customer bears the full cost of said flight.

[CruisinGerman]

That liability or lack thereof sounds horrible to me.

 

Now that cruise prices on Celebrity and RCCL are cheaper here in Spain than in the U.S. (it used to be the reverse), if I had the initiative I would open an agency here in Spain and attract U.S. customers into booking through that agency, so that they could at least get the protection we are accustomed to.

 

In the United States, if the "carrier" has no liability, I guess the travel agency has even less than that (although anything less than zero is obviously still zero). Here in the EU, travel agencies are jointly and severally liable together with the "carrier" and have their own insurance policies and bonds to cover that potential liability.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

[sasset]

Three points:

 

1. The $250 change fee is only the fee to get the tickets changed. It will be extremely rare that the airlines will issue a last minute ticket for a different date and time without a substantial fare increase to the current rate in addition to the $250 change fee. Fares on American Airlines for the one way to Chicago for the next week are currently $2,789 and up per person. I've never paid more than 1/2 of that for an entire round trip ticket to Europe on any of my past crusies since I've always purchased airfare at least 90 days in advance (when final payment was due).

 

2. Why should insurance be the remedy for passengers when Celebrity is clearly at fault. Insurance should be the remedy for passengers to protect themselves against their own problems (sickness, accidents, weather and theft) not a mechanical breakdown that is clearly the fault of the cruise line. I'm not sure why an insurance company would even bear the brunt of this.

 

3. Even if the $250 change fee does cover expenses then why should the passenger bear the cost of traveling to Barcelona and back for a cancelled cruise. While some percentage of cruisers do take extended pre/post cruise trips there are a very large percentage who will fly to/from the port only for the cruise and have no interest in spending time in Barcelona. Is there any reason why their airfare, and even hotel, costs are any different from the cruise line's fare that is being refunded?

 

I just changed the return portion of an American Airlines round trip flight after flying the first leg. This was a last minute change, the day before my scheduled return flight. Now this was an SNA to CRP (Corpus Christi, TX) trip but this is how it worked. I had a $150 change fee and I would have to pay the difference in fare based on the current round trip fare, not a new one way fare. In my case the fare was the same so it was only the $150 change fee.

[Lsimon]

In US law, what's Celebrity's actual liability as regards the airfares for those passengers who made their own flight arrangements? Isn't the contract between the passenger and Celebrity limited to just the cruise in those cases? ...

 

 

I think the boilerplate contract language and disclaimers are enough so that Celebrity can at least put up a fight. I'm not a lawyer so I don't know how those boilerplate contracts would hold up. I remember back from business school years ago that there are a lot of reasons why similar boilerplate isn't always effective but don't know how it relates here. But from a practical standpoint it certainly gives them a reason to at least claim they have no liability and it would be cost prohibitive for anyone to litigate the matter. In my mind it all comes down to whether the cruise line will do what is right in the name of both decency and customer relations. I sure hope they do come through with a better financial response for those effected even though, as a shareholder, I don't like the prospect of the financial hit. But business is business and such expenses do come up from time to time and must be handled the right way.

[ocngypz]

That liability or lack thereof sounds horrible to me.

 

Now that cruise prices on Celebrity and RCCL are cheaper here in Spain than in the U.S. (it used to be the reverse), if I had the initiative I would open an agency here in Spain and attract U.S. customers into booking through that agency, so that they could at least get the protection we are accustomed to.

 

In the United States, if the "carrier" has no liability, I guess the travel agency has even less than that (although anything less than zero is obviously still zero). Here in the EU, travel agencies are jointly and severally liable together with the "carrier" and have their own insurance policies and bonds to cover that potential liability.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

 

Without Spanish residency it would not work. The Spanish tariff rules are quite clear about that. Also the AIG insurance you posted the other day.

 

In the United States we have very strong idemnification laws. If American Airlines fails to deliver my passengers to the port in time, I am not liable, nor is the cruiseline liable even though they booked the air on the client's behalf. The only one who is liable is American Airlines for failure to deliver.

 

Frankly, I prefer US laws. The blame goes to the entity which screwed up.

[ocngypz]

That liability or lack thereof sounds horrible to me.

 

Now that cruise prices on Celebrity and RCCL are cheaper here in Spain than in the U.S. (it used to be the reverse), if I had the initiative I would open an agency here in Spain and attract U.S. customers into booking through that agency, so that they could at least get the protection we are accustomed to.

 

In the United States, if the "carrier" has no liability, I guess the travel agency has even less than that (although anything less than zero is obviously still zero). Here in the EU, travel agencies are jointly and severally liable together with the "carrier" and have their own insurance policies and bonds to cover that potential liability.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

 

Without Spanish residency it would not work. The Spanish tariff rules are quite clear about that. Also the AIG insurance you posted the other day.

 

In the United States we have very strong idemnification laws. If American Airlines fails to deliver my passengers to the port in time, I am not liable, nor is the cruiseline liable even though they booked the air on the client's behalf. The only one who is liable is American Airlines for failure to deliver.

 

Frankly, I prefer US laws. The blame goes to the entity which screwed up.

[Merig75484]

I am stating this opinion from the premise that insurance companies are sometimes not exactly angels, and always look for any possible legal loophole not to pay out a claim.

 

actually, insurance companies are just about as close to the devil as is possible for a non-human to get.

[Merig75484]

I am stating this opinion from the premise that insurance companies are sometimes not exactly angels, and always look for any possible legal loophole not to pay out a claim.

 

actually, insurance companies are just about as close to the devil as is possible for a non-human to get.

[Jade13]

Three points:

 

1. The $250 change fee is only the fee to get the tickets changed. It will be extremely rare that the airlines will issue a last minute ticket for a different date and time without a substantial fare increase to the current rate in addition to the $250 change fee. Fares on American Airlines for the one way to Chicago for the next week are currently $2,789 and up per person. I've never paid more than 1/2 of that for an entire round trip ticket to Europe on any of my past crusies since I've always purchased airfare at least 90 days in advance (when final payment was due).

 

2. Why should insurance be the remedy for passengers when Celebrity is clearly at fault. Insurance should be the remedy for passengers to protect themselves against their own problems (sickness, accidents, weather and theft) not a mechanical breakdown that is clearly the fault of the cruise line. I'm not sure why an insurance company would even bear the brunt of this.

 

3. Even if the $250 change fee does cover expenses then why should the passenger bear the cost of traveling to Barcelona and back for a cancelled cruise. While some percentage of cruisers do take extended pre/post cruise trips there are a very large percentage who will fly to/from the port only for the cruise and have no interest in spending time in Barcelona. Is there any reason why their airfare, and even hotel, costs are any different from the cruise line's fare that is being refunded?

 

I agree with everything you are saying. Celebrity caused the problem and needs to make passengers whole. I was just stating to those who are looking for money for pain and suffering, Celebrity is looking at it like they are giving back 125%. 10% of this cruise fare plus 25% to use on a future cruise. They are also looking at it like they gave a couple of days vacation and meals (although the only one that was stress free was the first day before passengers were told of the problem).

[Jade13]

Three points:

 

1. The $250 change fee is only the fee to get the tickets changed. It will be extremely rare that the airlines will issue a last minute ticket for a different date and time without a substantial fare increase to the current rate in addition to the $250 change fee. Fares on American Airlines for the one way to Chicago for the next week are currently $2,789 and up per person. I've never paid more than 1/2 of that for an entire round trip ticket to Europe on any of my past crusies since I've always purchased airfare at least 90 days in advance (when final payment was due).

 

2. Why should insurance be the remedy for passengers when Celebrity is clearly at fault. Insurance should be the remedy for passengers to protect themselves against their own problems (sickness, accidents, weather and theft) not a mechanical breakdown that is clearly the fault of the cruise line. I'm not sure why an insurance company would even bear the brunt of this.

 

3. Even if the $250 change fee does cover expenses then why should the passenger bear the cost of traveling to Barcelona and back for a cancelled cruise. While some percentage of cruisers do take extended pre/post cruise trips there are a very large percentage who will fly to/from the port only for the cruise and have no interest in spending time in Barcelona. Is there any reason why their airfare, and even hotel, costs are any different from the cruise line's fare that is being refunded?

 

I agree with everything you are saying. Celebrity caused the problem and needs to make passengers whole. I was just stating to those who are looking for money for pain and suffering, Celebrity is looking at it like they are giving back 125%. 10% of this cruise fare plus 25% to use on a future cruise. They are also looking at it like they gave a couple of days vacation and meals (although the only one that was stress free was the first day before passengers were told of the problem).

[ghstudio]

Those who say...use a TA so you have someone to help....we flew to Barcelona on AA frequent flier miles....we used up 60K miles to get to the two cruises and expected to wind up in Miami where we could drive home.

We could not call AA to "Change our flights" or to book another flight on miles because we don't have enough.

So what TA would you suggest we use for help getting home....no tickets to change because we never needed a ticket in the first place to get home. We booked one way to Barcelona.

Assistance from Select Air would have been very welcome by us....or assistance by the rep in the "redeployment desk"...but neither was offered...actually they refused to do either when I asked.

[ghstudio]

Those who say...use a TA so you have someone to help....we flew to Barcelona on AA frequent flier miles....we used up 60K miles to get to the two cruises and expected to wind up in Miami where we could drive home.

 

We could not call AA to "Change our flights" or to book another flight on miles because we don't have enough.

 

So what TA would you suggest we use for help getting home....no tickets to change because we never needed a ticket in the first place to get home. We booked one way to Barcelona.

 

Assistance from Select Air would have been very welcome by us....or assistance by the rep in the "redeployment desk"...but neither was offered...actually they refused to do either when I asked.

[Scotsnomad]

Frankly, I prefer US laws. The blame goes to the entity which screwed up.

 

I dont understand that, is that the same as the entity which cocked up? lol:)

[Scotsnomad]

Frankly, I prefer US laws. The blame goes to the entity which screwed up.

 

I dont understand that, is that the same as the entity which cocked up? lol:)

[Gonzo70]

That liability or lack thereof sounds horrible to me.

 

 

It goes both ways. While the EU laws are great during the rare instances when something goes wrong, the US lack of similar protections is great for the 99%+ of cruises where such snafus do not occur. Extra protections come at a price. If Celebrity was responsible for the same expenses covered by the EU laws for US passengers then Celebrity would have to significantly raise cruise fares. I personally prefer to have lower fares, have travel insurance, and realize that occasionally things go wrong with travel and not expect the cruise line to make me whole for an event out of their control (i.e. a mechanical problem in this case). While I would be heartbroken if I had a cruise cancelled early on (or before it started) I would hope that I would imrpovise to make the most of my situation and try to still have a great vacation.

[Gonzo70]

That liability or lack thereof sounds horrible to me.

 

 

It goes both ways. While the EU laws are great during the rare instances when something goes wrong, the US lack of similar protections is great for the 99%+ of cruises where such snafus do not occur. Extra protections come at a price. If Celebrity was responsible for the same expenses covered by the EU laws for US passengers then Celebrity would have to significantly raise cruise fares. I personally prefer to have lower fares, have travel insurance, and realize that occasionally things go wrong with travel and not expect the cruise line to make me whole for an event out of their control (i.e. a mechanical problem in this case). While I would be heartbroken if I had a cruise cancelled early on (or before it started) I would hope that I would imrpovise to make the most of my situation and try to still have a great vacation.