Bus Time? Yuk!

[twoatsea]

I read somewhere that the road travel time between the river & Moscow is 2 hours one way. Is this true? There is no way we will accept 4 hours on a bus or in a car in one day! I also read that once the bus arrives in the city, it sits in traffic a great deal - true? If so, guess we will just do our siteseeing pre-cruise & enjoy the river boat during the Moscow days.

 

What about the other ports regarding the travel time between the river & cities, & the time in a vehicle while on the excursions?

 

Thanks

[paul929207]

It may be that some ships are docked further away, but on Grand Circle we had a 30 or 45 minuted bus ride.

[williegirlcat]

We were no more than 30 minutes from Moscow. I guess there are different areas for docking. When we wanted to stay in the city , we were told what color train line to take and how many stops to count. You cant read the stations since they are in Cyrillic. The river boat was docked near the last stop.

[Coral]

It was probably an hour for us.

 

St. Petersburg seemed longer and we went back for lunch!

 

I have done Russia via land and also via River Cruise. Land wins! It is so much better to stay downtown and walk around.

 

Traffic can be really bad at various times in Moscow and St. Petersburg.

[pacmom]

We were just there in Sept. and the 2 hours is really not an exageration. The first day trip from the airport was about an hour because the driver took all back roads. The next day we used the metro and went into Red Square on our own--didn't want to eat at 9:30 pm. 4 of us ate on the Surkov sister ship to the Kirov. Using the metro is not difficult. Traffic is just horroble in Moscow. Think LA streets with no freeways.

Couldn't tell you about St.P. because I had food poisoning. DH did not go with included tours, but rode the metro instead.

In both places you are quite far out of town. It seems that all the lines used the same berthing spaces in Moscow. In St.P., there were many boats moored.

Fortunately we had already been to St.P. with Oceania--moored as far up the Neva as possible, just across from the Hermitage. St'P. is so beautiful--a true jewel. Think whenwe were in Moscow they were still suffering so of the effects from the fires. Pat

[twoatsea]

Thanks for your responses. Sounds like if our dates & time are workable, I think we will prefer staying in & touring Moscow & St.P. on our own during our pre & post cruise time.

 

Coral, I'm interested in your land tour. Did you use a tour company or hire a private guide, & what cities (& what route) did you visit in what amount of time?

[Kellie Poodle]

I read somewhere that the road travel time between the river & Moscow is 2 hours one way. Is this true? There is no way we will accept 4 hours on a bus or in a car in one day! I also read that once the bus arrives in the city, it sits in traffic a great deal - true? If so, guess we will just do our siteseeing pre-cruise & enjoy the river boat during the Moscow days.

 

What about the other ports regarding the travel time between the river & cities, & the time in a vehicle while on the excursions?

 

Thanks

 

 

One of the things my TA told me about AMA was that they used vans so there wasn't the traffic problems of the big buses.

[pacmom]

It doesn't matter what type of vehicle is used to get from berthing slot to town. Traffic is terrible in Moscow any time of day or evening. The metro in Moscow is about a ten minute walk from the boats, situated in a small shopping center. In St.P. you have to take a bus to the nearest metro stop. Both metros are user friendly and easy to use.

 

Best shopping was in Uglich. There is a market area ver close to the pier. Some items were 1/2 the price asked on board. And yes the quality is the same. It gets more expensive as you go north towards St.P. Enjoy!!

 

Vantage is now lodging guests in hotels in both Moscow and St.P.---elimenates the long bus trips. Pat

[HDS]

You cant read the stations since they are in Cyrillic.

 

It's not hard to learn enough of the Cyrillic alphabet before you reach Russia to be able to decipher and recognise place names e.g. Metro stations and streets.

The time taken from dock to city depends on traffic, much longer in peak hour when the roads are parking lots. Metros are much faster.

Secure all valuables in inside pockets and watch out for pickpockets. They work in twos or threes and are very good at what they do.

Get Metro maps, good guidebooks and city street maps and, with a basic knowledge of the Cyrillic alphabet, it's not hard to find your way to what you want to see in Moscow and St Petersburg.

We enjoyed the company of fellow cruisers and watching the river world roll by but we are delighted we had a few extra days in hotels in both cities. Viking's tours (in Russia and Ukraine) in groups of 50 per guide were rushed, crowded and superficial. We found the tours (especially the Metro one) very unsatisfactory and wanted more time at venues and less time at souvenir shops.

Enjoy!

[Coral]

One of the things my TA told me about AMA was that they used vans so there wasn't the traffic problems of the big buses.

 

They used busses (big busses) when we went a few years ago.

 

Though, it wouldn't matter if they used vans or busses, traffic is traffic.

[twoatsea]

Thanks everyone for such great info. I'll plan for pre & post cruise time in each city. Sounds like it will make the trip much more enjoyable.

[Coral]

Thanks for your responses. Sounds like if our dates & time are workable, I think we will prefer staying in & touring Moscow & St.P. on our own during our pre & post cruise time.

 

Coral, I'm interested in your land tour. Did you use a tour company or hire a private guide, & what cities (& what route) did you visit in what amount of time?

 

I am dating myself here. In 1988 (during Communism) I took a high school trip which was something like 7 countries in 7 weeks (or something similar). We probably spent 4 days in Moscow and 4 days in Leningrad (St. Petersburg). We took a train in from Helsinki to St. Petersburg and then took an overnight train to Moscow and flew out of Moscow back home as that was our last country we stopped at.

 

We stayed in hotels downtown and took the tram to most places and busses to some places. Yes, it was organized through a company that specializes in education travel for highschool and college students. Ironically, I saw far more on that trip then I did on my AMA trip in these cities. I will go as far to say that while I enjoyed the cities along the Volga, they didn't mean as much to me as St. Petersburg and Moscow did and I wish I had spent more time there this last time. I enjoyed leisurely walking around the downtown area and seeing the sights in daytime and at night. I enjoyed the different restaurants we ate at and I felt like I got a better feel for the people and area.

 

Words of wisdom.... I did know a little Russian in 1988 but had forgotten most of it when I went 3 or 4 years ago. The people in Russia are very friendly and many speak English. Feel free to ask for directions wherever you are. This last time, I had a group of people who went to Red Square with me one night (as it was going to be closed when AMA planned for us to go the next day). I got us all back easily to our boat just by using the map AMA provided and showing it to people on the subway. No Russian was required. I could read some but very little.

 

One of my biggest regrets on my AMA trip was not staying in town more instead of going back to eat lunch/dinner on the ship. You waste so much time that way. For example, they bussed us back to the ship for dinner and then they were going to bus us back to the Hermitage for ballet. Just stay in town and grab something to eat on your own and the wander around. You can't get lost looking for the Hermitage. Enough people will point you in the right direction! Just speak with the CD and have her show you where you need to meet and at what time.

 

Another example of "do it yourself". When in Peterhoff - they seperated us in groups. Our group saw the grounds before the water fountains turned on. With AMA, we did not see the Grand Palace at Peterhoff - we saw a smaller building along the water which was nothing like the Grand Palace we saw on my earlier trip. After about 10 minutes of the smaller building, I skipped out. I asked one of the guides what time we were going to catch the water boat (sorry can't remember the name - hydro something) back to our boat and she told me. I promptly left the tour and walked around the grounds myself and met the group at the hydro water boat at the scheduled time.

 

Don't hesitate to deviate from the group.

 

I love Russia and next time I go, I will stay in hotels (hopefully through points as the hotels are very $$$$) and leisurely do things at my pace. I will spend as much time at the Hermitage that I want, I will spend an entire day at Peterhoff, I will actually go into Church on the Spilled Blood and St. Basil's Cathedral as opposed to just taking photo stops from the exterior. The first time I was there, we went into Lenin's moseleum (sp?), this was not even at option on this trip (heck, they wouldn't even reschedule our time in Red Square on a day in which it was open (we walked within 10 feet of it during a subway visit and they wouldn't let us in when it was open). I am sure the subway visit could have been rescheduled?????!!!!!!

 

If you can spend pre or post days in port - I strongly recommend it. My biggest regret on this last trip.

[Coral]

On AMA - they always gave us subway map (in Moscow and St. Petersburg) with our pier area highlighted. So if we ever got lost, we just had to show that to anyone and hopefully they would point us in the right direction. We could also show it to a taxi driver if we needed to get back to our ship. We also had Marina (sp?) - the cruise director's cell phone with us at all times and we could call her if we got lost or needed help.

[Kellie Poodle]

Vantage is now lodging guests in hotels in both Moscow and St.P.---elimenates the long bus trips. Pat

 

Using a hotel means more packing and unpacking and luggage schlepping. That's the very reason I like river barge travel. Unpack once. Pack once.

 

For me the hotel would be more off putting than the bus ride. I can take a nap or bring a book or some Sudoku for the bus ride.

[Kellie Poodle]

They used busses (big busses) when we went a few years ago.

 

Though, it wouldn't matter if they used vans or busses, traffic is traffic.

 

Maybe they changed things with the new boat. I don't think they have been doing Russia for a few years.

[Hydrokitty]

Using a hotel means more packing and unpacking and luggage schlepping. That's the very reason I like river barge travel. Unpack once. Pack once.

 

For me the hotel would be more off putting than the bus ride. I can take a nap or bring a book or some Sudoku for the bus ride.

 

Kellie: thanks for the information. I'm in the process of planning Russian waterways with Vantage for next year. Couple of things: we were told by someone who was on their 17th trip with Vantage, NOT to use them for Russia because their ships were sub-standard. They now have new ships that are supposed to be as good as the ones they use on the Rhine and Danube. As for schlepping the luggage, I agree it's one of the main benefits of river cruising, but if what everyone is saying about Russian traffic is true, and I believe it is, then I would rather be in the hotel and able to walk to the bus, subway or place I want to see. The TD is going to arrange for your luggage transfers anyway. I know when we stayed in hotels with Vantage before and after cruises, I never touched my bag except to identify it and put it outside my hotel room! :)

[pacmom]

Hydrokitty, we had originally planned to go with Vantage because of the hotel stay--then they discontinued it. So we chose Viking. Now I wish we had waited a bit longer and had that wonderful option of a hotel for 4 nites on each end. All the boats look alike on the exterior. All older German ones. Many have been redone on the interior to be more like the European boats. It is not like you have to pack and unpack each nite. Go and enjoy. We each have different requirements for an enjoyable vacation. Lots of heavy traffic is not one of mine, Pat

[Hydrokitty]

Hi Pat, I agree with you on the traffic! Being a New Yorker, we live with it every day and that's why I would rather stay in a down town hotel and be able to walk everywhere! BTW, thanks for the shopping tip....I would never have guessed that Uglich would be the best shopping! What did you buy, and what should I look for? That's why I love these boards....even seasoned, frequent travelers can pick up some very valuable information from our fellow travelers. :D Judy

[4774Papa]

Kellie: thanks for the information. I'm in the process of planning Russian waterways with Vantage for next year. Couple of things: we were told by someone who was on their 17th trip with Vantage, NOT to use them for Russia because their ships were sub-standard. They now have new ships that are supposed to be as good as the ones they use on the Rhine and Danube. As for schlepping the luggage, I agree it's one of the main benefits of river cruising, but if what everyone is saying about Russian traffic is true, and I believe it is, then I would rather be in the hotel and able to walk to the bus, subway or place I want to see. The TD is going to arrange for your luggage transfers anyway. I know when we stayed in hotels with Vantage before and after cruises, I never touched my bag except to identify it and put it outside my hotel room! :)

 

 

Great information on Russian River Cruises. I have done much research, and lean toward Vantage, but their costs are at least $1000 more than GCT, my second choice. Vantage does offer the hotels in Moscow and St. Pete. The hotel option is great, but you have to buy more of your own meals, still being able to stay in town is a plus. I will probably only go there once.

 

Both tours include (especially GCT) too many optional tours. AMA looks good, but appears to cost even more.

 

Another option is to book with Gate 1 Travel or allRussia for one of the budget cruises. The cost is significantly lower, but of course, the ships not as good.

 

One encouraging thing that I picked up on this thread is that apparently doing Moscow or St. Pete on your own is possible. My only experience with getting around in a city with a difficult language was my trip to Hong Kong several years ago. Almost no one spoke English, and had I not carried a card in Chinese with the name of my hotel, I would had serious problems getting back to my hotel.

[twoatsea]

Some great info & ideas on this forum. DH & I have, except for 2 trips, planned our trips without tour companies or travel agents. We much prefer independent travel. However, we stay in major cities at least 5-7 nites & smaller cities at least 3-4 nites. That eliminates a lot of the luggage work. But then, one 22"-26" bag, private car transfers between airports & hotels, use of hotel luggage staff, & ensuring every hotel has an elevator :cool: eliminates a lot of the luggage work too! This time we're considering a river cruise as something "different", but not our only option.

 

Another option we are considering that allows an independent itinerary in such a language-issue country is to hire a personal local guide/driver. Then, time is not cut short in special places (hate that!) & time is not wasted in useless places (as in shopping promos), because we will determine the schedule & itinerary. While it may sound expensive, it's not any more expensive as the higher rated river cruise tours. We can cut our costs for a personal guide/driver by hiring them while only in St. P & Moscow, which are the only 2 reasons we are considering a trip to Russia, at this time. Our cost can be decreased by not using a personal guide between cities since we aren't concerned about getting ourselves between cities. And then while in each city, we can control the cost by the # of hours the guide is used each day. We prefer 1/2 day touring - to enjoy our trip rather than exhaust ourselves. That leaves the other 1/2 day for free exploring time or down time - such as sitting in an interesting local cafe. Of course, there will be some exceptions to the 1/2 day plan. A bonus to a personal guide/driver is easing the travel work. A personal guide can be used for pre-trip hotel recommendations and/or reservations, and then during the trip used for dining guidance, airport transfers, hotel checkin, assistance with problems, & all luggage handling is taken care of during the airport transfers & hotel checkin/out. It's about as close to traveling wealthy as we will ever get! Before we make our Russia travel decision, we will compare this option to the river cruise option. Not the only way, just another consideration when planning. :)

[shoshona2]

Hi twoatsea,

 

It sounds like you and your DH like independent travel. When my DH and I take regular cruises, we always do our own excursions -- we just use the ship to get to the ports. Did you check the "Ports of Call" section of Cruise Critic and hit on Russia? There are threads about doing Moscow and St. Petersburg on your own. It sure is easier now than when we were there before. We used a private guide in St. Petersburg and even had lunch with a Russian family. It was a fabulous tour. They now have on-off buses in St. Petersburg, also. When we go on AMA's river cruise, we will do our own thing in St. Petersburg. There are places we haven't been to before. We are taking a river cruise because we want to see more of Russia and we have not been to Moscow. Since we are in our 70's and have been traveling for over 35 years all around the World, we just want to sit back and let someone else "do the driving".

 

Sheila

[pacmom]

Judy,

 

The big thing in Uglich was carved wooden santas, ornaments and the "stacking dolls. They were all at least 1/2 the price of the ship shop. They will take you to a place in Yaroslav where you will see wooden or papier mache boxes that are exqusite--very expensive tho. Along the side of the room there are pins made the same way. Madrongy is an artists colony--found a beautiful pendant--embroidered silver thread on black fabric.

In Yaroslaz if there is a guide named Larissa, try to get in her group. She was the best guide on the entire trip. Pat

[4774Papa]

Some great info & ideas on this forum. DH & I have, except for 2 trips, planned our trips without tour companies or travel agents. We much prefer independent travel. However, we stay in major cities at least 5-7 nites & smaller cities at least 3-4 nites. That eliminates a lot of the luggage work. But then, one 22"-26" bag, private car transfers between airports & hotels, use of hotel luggage staff, & ensuring every hotel has an elevator :cool: eliminates a lot of the luggage work too! This time we're considering a river cruise as something "different", but not our only option.

 

Another option we are considering that allows an independent itinerary in such a language-issue country is to hire a personal local guide/driver. Then, time is not cut short in special places (hate that!) & time is not wasted in useless places (as in shopping promos), because we will determine the schedule & itinerary. While it may sound expensive, it's not any more expensive as the higher rated river cruise tours. We can cut our costs for a personal guide/driver by hiring them while only in St. P & Moscow, which are the only 2 reasons we are considering a trip to Russia, at this time. Our cost can be decreased by not using a personal guide between cities since we aren't concerned about getting ourselves between cities. And then while in each city, we can control the cost by the # of hours the guide is used each day. We prefer 1/2 day touring - to enjoy our trip rather than exhaust ourselves. That leaves the other 1/2 day for free exploring time or down time - such as sitting in an interesting local cafe. Of course, there will be some exceptions to the 1/2 day plan. A bonus to a personal guide/driver is easing the travel work. A personal guide can be used for pre-trip hotel recommendations and/or reservations, and then during the trip used for dining guidance, airport transfers, hotel checkin, assistance with problems, & all luggage handling is taken care of during the airport transfers & hotel checkin/out. It's about as close to traveling wealthy as we will ever get! Before we make our Russia travel decision, we will compare this option to the river cruise option. Not the only way, just another consideration when planning. :)

 

 

You have some good ideas on travel. I lived in Germany for four years, and generally used your method. We used guidebooks to find inexpensive hotels, since the internet didn't exist then.

 

However, I would be concerned about using this method to travel in Russia. My research indicates that Western tourists (especially Americans) can be spotted a mile away by the local thugs, and that off the beaten path, it is not always safe. There is saftey in a group, especially in an organized group.

 

My research comes not just from cruise critic and other travel websites, but from people that have visited Russia.

[twoatsea]

Sheila, I understand the kicking it back & taking it easier. DH has reached that point (he's 73). That's one of the reasons I'm looking into the river cruises, but I do think a private guide/driver while staying in a city is also an "easy" way to go.

 

4774Papa, thanks for your warning & concern. I too feel Russia will be a "different" type of travel requiring more caution. We definitely will not go it alone - either a river cruise or a pre-arranged private guide/driver. Our free time would be only during the day in the main areas.

 

A plus for the river cruise is definitely the port stops & the opportunity to see more of Russia.

 

My problem for 2011 is time! We've decided that keeping our October 2011 westbound transatlantic is desirable because we want to include an independent trip to Istanbul & Rome - October is a good month for that. Since we don't travel during the summer (we love our gardening!), & August 2011 for the Russian river cruise is too close to our October travel, that only leaves March or April (want to be home during May to start planting our flowers). If we do the river cruise in March or April, the Russian weather is too cold. So, I have been looking at the Prague/Budapest cruise. As for Russia, we could change our mind on the October TA, leaving time for Russia - who knows!

 

But I must say, it is hard to bite that financial bullet on the river cruises! The prices are so high for what one gets compared to independent travel & the big ship cruises. But then it is a unique experience & isn't that what travel is all about! :)