Reducing tip percentage.

[PS90]

Oops sorry I meant as a fellow cruiser I wouldn't give those non tipping cruisers the time of day, sorry but if I had someone sitting at my table boasting he had taken off his Auto Service charge and had no intention of tipping at all,(much like many of you do on these boards) I would not give him or his party the time of day.

 

I am sure that the staff would work as hard as ever to ensure the cruisers had a good cruise. Which makes it hard to see when they are robbed of, or have an reducation of, their wages

 

I totally understand, and I think I would likely lose any respect I had for someone, if that cruiser did that as well.

 

But still, IMO, the crew should look at tips as a reward for a job well done, not as a requirement of the passengers that should be punished if not deemed appropriate.

[staygulf]

Then,.....you won't be able to sail on the American cruise line that was mentioned earlier. NCL has the only American ship (out of Hawaii).

 

Your life (and your cruise) will be better if you will simply see the DSC as what it is-----how the crew gets paid. Yes, it is most certainly not included in the base fare. That is to your monetary advantage. We're getting a lot of sturm and drang about the DSC. Lot's of 'em wanta say "it's not about the money!". Well, that is usually,....er,uhm,...not the case. When I see people complaing about the likelyhood poor service from the crew prior to actually boarding the ship, well I really sympathize with THOSE crewmembers who'll hafta deal with such. :eek: Yikes!

 

I would never, in a million years, see the DSC as how the crew gets paid. I doubt very much that my life is going to suffer from that point of view. And as to "sturm and drang", I haven't the slightest inkling of what you're talking about.

[grand isle joe]

Maybe the O.P. should travel on Crystal Cruise lines where the riff raff does not have to worry about the peasants and there payments. "let them eat cake...":D

[luddite]

I would never, in a million years, see the DSC as how the crew gets paid. I doubt very much that my life is going to suffer from that point of view. And as to "sturm and drang", I haven't the slightest inkling of what you're talking about.

 

:) Well, now we know the problem. Good luck to you.

[oncruisecontrol]

Seriously?!? An employee that does have his tips purposefully reduced should think "what can I do to make people happier and/or be better at my job", NOT "I'm going to treat that guy like dirt for disrespecting me..."

 

 

 

In some cases, I agree with you. Half of the time, tips for many in the service industry are low because of poor service. I have worked in the restaurant industry as a server for 11 yrs. I love the work, and I will bend over backwards for every guest (even the rude ones; and often the rude ones tip really well). But, there are many who, regardless of what I have done for them; regardless of the fact that I've gone above and beyond, always with a smile on my face (again I LOVE the work); they will still stiff me because they were not going to tip in the first place no matter how good a server I was to them. There are those that are simply non-tippers no matter the great service. I speak (not to boast) but because I take a lot of pride in my work. It is very easy for servers who are contientious like I am, to become bitter (and take it personally) when people do not tip them. I have just learned to take it in stride as the good tippers make up for the bad ones. In short, the point of my post is: Many people who DO NOT tip, do so, not because of bad service, but because they are just people who do not tip.

[bplazo]

Aha, now I understand the original posts in this thread which indicated NCL's tough line. Memo to self.... never cruise with NCL.

 

I am sure that the staff are thankfull :).

[iheartbda]

:) Well, now we know the problem. Good luck to you.

Maybe if you said sturm und drang it would have given them a hint.:D

[vedwards69]

Nope.;):)

Any explanation of a word that is pre-1950s that involves acronyms is false. Tip has been used as far back as 1610, meaning "give".

 

what about FUBAR?

[iheartbda]

what about FUBAR?

Failed UniBus Address Register?:p

[quincytoo]

I totally understand, and I think I would likely lose any respect I had for someone, if that cruiser did that as well.

 

But still, IMO, the crew should look at tips as a reward for a job well done, not as a requirement of the passengers that should be punished if not deemed appropriate.

 

I so agree with you :)

 

If all the cruise lines made the $10-12.00 a day service charge a mandatory charge payable at final booking then all these threads would be history. The cruise staff would all be paid their deserving wage and those of us who want to actually tip for over and beyond for great service can :)

 

 

Any staff member not giving good service can be written up in a " You made a differance card)but it would be "You did NOT make a differance and here is why" card"

Seems like a huge win win for me :)

[Izzblizz]

I find $10 a day for tipping (which I understand is what they add on Carnival cruises), *amazingly cheap*, Even $12 p/p is cheap.

 

If I were doing a land trip, tips per person would certainly be more than that for hotel maid, breakfast, lunch and dinner. Even at an all inclusive, I have spent about that per person per day (still tip even though it is an all inclusive).

[staygulf]

I so agree with you :)

 

If all the cruise lines made the $10-12.00 a day service charge a mandatory charge payable at final booking then all these threads would be history. The cruise staff would all be paid their deserving wage and those of us who want to actually tip for over and beyond for great service can :)

 

 

Any staff member not giving good service can be written up in a " You made a differance card)but it would be "You did NOT make a differance and here is why" card"

Seems like a huge win win for me :)

 

 

At last, someone who sees sense.

[Cruisin_on_th_net]

*eye roll*

so many assumptions (and surely people know what ASSuME stands for!)

 

Unfortunately I type quickly, so you'll have to keep up! :D

 

If tipping is to top up the hard working staff's wages, then I'm happy for that to be dispensed out of my extra $$ paid already to the cruise company. -you know the one I mean!!!! That's the company who employs these staff and is responsible for paying them...... the same company that can sell a cruise to some people for approx 50% less than others, so therefore only needs that much $$ to operate, making the outstanding 50% available to top up the wages and some jam left over to play with!

 

If I walked into a restaurant and was charged approximately double for the exact same meal with the exact same service, I'd have no qualms expecting that restaurant to prop up the low n dodgy wages of the service staff out of their gouged out menu prices.

 

BUT....

If tipping is to show appreciation and great service (different reason from "not stiffing the staff" their hard earned wage as people like to infer) then it should be discretionary. It should be based on doing their job above n beyond. People talk about cleaning their own room and all that (if you don't want to tip) -most of the times when I travel, I only ask for fresh towels. Always strip my bed at the end of the trip and wash cutlery/crockery etc. As I tend to travel with carry on only, I'm used to having minimal stuff with me. I'm just not sure what "brilliant" "above and beyond" service I gain from motel staff.

 

So is the reason for bagging out non-tippers because they are stiffing the staff of their wages or that they refuse to reward staff for brilliant service? I'd just like to know what moral high ground the knockers are standing on as it seems to change, depending on who and what challenges their self righteous opinions.

 

For the record Mr Ape is Mrs Ape, and I do tip if and when in Rome. This doesn't mean I don't resent the expectation that tipping is expected, and /or resent people's holier than thou opinions of themselves, because they can't see both sides of the coin and keep contradicting their reasons as to why cruisers "should tip."

 

If you've had trouble keeping up, feel free to re-read again! Ohhhhh, and I never said yanks were stupid, and have never implied it, I actually haven't read where anyone has said or implied it. That's some one else's misinterpretation.

 

Lastly it absolutely disgusts me that people are happy and comfortable for these companies to underpay their staff. If every cruiser grew some brass ones and stopped cruising for 6 months as a protest, (ie voted with ya feet as people keep advocating re the tipping discussions) the staff would actually get a fair deal. The real issue for me is the fact that the cruising companies won't pay a fair wage in the first place. Insisting on paying bottom dollar for a cruise is really what is stiffing the crew, these people are stiffing the crew from their hard earned money, not a few over the pond cruisers who may remove the gratuity / service / tips.

[PS90]

To me, the whole problem with this entire subject is the idea of whether or not tips are OPTIONAL.

 

 

 

Yes, I would also agree that tips maybe should just be added into the total cruise fare. BUT, there are two potential problems with that:

 

1) Any crew incentive to go "above and beyond" has been taken away, if all tips are now created equal, no matter how the work is done

 

2) Some people, who are "big tippers" will tip anyway, and then, over time, the crew will start expecting tips again. So eventually all we will end up with are higher fares AND tips on top of them.

 

 

 

BUT, leaving tips as they are doesn't seem to be working either, as evidenced by all of these long threads about it. Obviously, there is RAMPANT misunderstanding and difference of opinion about the subject.

 

And obviously, some people see tips as discretionary (for a job well done), while some see them as almost a requirement (and, according to some people - if the tip is lessened, then the crew should "punish" the pax for lessening it).

 

I can't say that I know the answer. But it's pretty obvious that a group consensus about the subject isn't going to happen on Cruise Critic. :(

[esimon]

I also agree but countries handle things differently -- in Italy, they bring the meal and you don't see a waiter again -- and you don't tip service, salary what ever -- This is a fact and how the service staff gets most of their income:o -- if you aren't getting 4 or 5 star service - speak up immediately :eek: then pay the tip/service fee. You know going in this is expected -- be prepared and have a great trip

[staygulf]

To me, the whole problem with this entire subject is the idea of whether or not tips are OPTIONAL.

 

 

 

Yes, I would also agree that tips maybe should just be added into the total cruise fare. BUT, there are two potential problems with that:

 

1) Any crew incentive to go "above and beyond" has been taken away, if all tips are now created equal, no matter how the work is done

 

2) Some people, who are "big tippers" will tip anyway, and then, over time, the crew will start expecting tips again. So eventually all we will end up with are higher fares AND tips on top of them

 

 

BUT, leaving tips as they are doesn't seem to be working either, as evidenced by all of these long threads about it. Obviously, there is RAMPANT misunderstanding and difference of opinion about the subject.

 

And obviously, some people see tips as discretionary (for a job well done), while some see them as almost a requirement (and, according to some people - if the tip is lessened, then the crew should "punish" the pax for lessening it).

 

I can't say that I know the answer. But it's pretty obvious that a group consensus about the subject isn't going to happen on Cruise Critic. :(

 

I agree that we will have to agree to disagree. One point is puzzling me, though. How can the crew be incentivized to go above and beyond if there is a system of mandatory tipping and they know exactly what they will get. Surely any incentive can only come from the HOPE that they will be rewarded by the PAX for a good job ? Yes, some will not pay, some will pay a small amount and others will tip big. It will even itself out. IMHO discretionary tipping on top of a fair salary is the right and proper way to go.

[staygulf]

*eye roll*

so many assumptions (and surely people know what ASSuME stands for!)

 

Unfortunately I type quickly, so you'll have to keep up! :D

 

If tipping is to top up the hard working staff's wages, then I'm happy for that to be dispensed out of my extra $$ paid already to the cruise company. -you know the one I mean!!!! That's the company who employs these staff and is responsible for paying them...... the same company that can sell a cruise to some people for approx 50% less than others, so therefore only needs that much $$ to operate, making the outstanding 50% available to top up the wages and some jam left over to play with!

 

If I walked into a restaurant and was charged approximately double for the exact same meal with the exact same service, I'd have no qualms expecting that restaurant to prop up the low n dodgy wages of the service staff out of their gouged out menu prices.

 

BUT....

If tipping is to show appreciation and great service (different reason from "not stiffing the staff" their hard earned wage as people like to infer) then it should be discretionary. It should be based on doing their job above n beyond. People talk about cleaning their own room and all that (if you don't want to tip) -most of the times when I travel, I only ask for fresh towels. Always strip my bed at the end of the trip and wash cutlery/crockery etc. As I tend to travel with carry on only, I'm used to having minimal stuff with me. I'm just not sure what "brilliant" "above and beyond" service I gain from motel staff.

 

So is the reason for bagging out non-tippers because they are stiffing the staff of their wages or that they refuse to reward staff for brilliant service? I'd just like to know what moral high ground the knockers are standing on as it seems to change, depending on who and what challenges their self righteous opinions.

 

For the record Mr Ape is Mrs Ape, and I do tip if and when in Rome. This doesn't mean I don't resent the expectation that tipping is expected, and /or resent people's holier than thou opinions of themselves, because they can't see both sides of the coin and keep contradicting their reasons as to why cruisers "should tip."

 

If you've had trouble keeping up, feel free to re-read again! Ohhhhh, and I never said yanks were stupid, and have never implied it, I actually haven't read where anyone has said or implied it. That's some one else's misinterpretation.

 

Lastly it absolutely disgusts me that people are happy and comfortable for these companies to underpay their staff. If every cruiser grew some brass ones and stopped cruising for 6 months as a protest, (ie voted with ya feet as people keep advocating re the tipping discussions) the staff would actually get a fair deal. The real issue for me is the fact that the cruising companies won't pay a fair wage in the first place. Insisting on paying bottom dollar for a cruise is really what is stiffing the crew, these people are stiffing the crew from their hard earned money, not a few over the pond cruisers who may remove the gratuity / service / tips.

 

 

Nicely put Mrs A

[navybankerteacher]

I agree that we will have to agree to disagree. One point is puzzling me, though. How can the crew be incentivized to go above and beyond if there is a system of mandatory tipping and they know exactly what they will get. Surely any incentive can only come from the HOPE that they will be rewarded by the PAX for a good job ? Yes, some will not pay, some will pay a small amount and others will tip big. It will even itself out. IMHO discretionary tipping on top of a fair salary is the right and proper way to go.

 

Exactly!! And the system of having a basic auto-tip -WHICH CAN BE REMOVED IF SERVICE IS SUB-STANDARD (REMEMBER THAT ----IT IS NOT MANDATORY!). Aline's auti-tip facilitates the process of getting incentive compensation to the many people whose service is (hopefully) appreciated -- while maintaining the valuable concept of incentive pay.

 

Then, in addition, passengers who are really appreciative of the service received can supplement it with additional one-to-one tip.

 

Some cultures do not like tipping - members of those cultures are entitled to their views of what represents fair compensation. But are they also entitled to demand that companies which have other approaches -- with whom they voluntarily do business -- must tailor compensation policies freely accepted by the staff to accomodate their cultural prejudices? I think not.

[PS90]

I agree that we will have to agree to disagree. One point is puzzling me, though. How can the crew be incentivized to go above and beyond if there is a system of mandatory tipping and they know exactly what they will get. Surely any incentive can only come from the HOPE that they will be rewarded by the PAX for a good job ? Yes, some will not pay, some will pay a small amount and others will tip big. It will even itself out. IMHO discretionary tipping on top of a fair salary is the right and proper way to go.

 

I'm not sure if you are asking this question in regards to my post that you quoted or not, because you basically said the exact same thing that I did.

 

Here's my quote: "1) Any crew incentive to go "above and beyond" has been taken away, if all tips are now created equal, no matter how the work is done" - that is, if tips were just added into the basic cruise fare.

[eightofninekev]

Slow down, open your ears and turn on your brain: you are NOT forced o tip. a service charge is added to your on board account. Because you have the right to reduce it or remove it entirely, there is no way you can call it forced upon you. The line has every right to want to know the reason if you do decide to reduce/remove it: A) It makes them aware of a service problem so they can correct it, and: B) They have the obligation to the staff to require some effort on tghe part of the person who wants to punish them -- even though you might like the comfort of being able to stiff them in the comfort of absolute anonymity.

 

Again: NO FORCE IS INVOLVED - just a reasonable requirement that people act responsibly.

 

I don't like the idea of a service charge being added to my account ,even if it can be lowered or removed I don’t see why I should waste my holiday time queuing up to ask to remove it or have to explain why I want it removed. Also with some cruise companies it is mandatory such as Costa and NCL. So there is some forcing there but as you said I don’t have to go with those cruise lines and probably won’t .If the crew aren’t getting paid enough that is not me punishing them it’s the cruise company ,it’s their choice to work there.

I Think that tips should be included in the price of the cruise and maybe the cruise line actively encourage people to tip .For instance on my last cruise the cd mentioned a few times the crew and the effort they put in. I see tipping as a reward for excellent service .

[staygulf]

I don't like the idea of a service charge being added to my account ,even if it can be lowered or removed I don’t see why I should waste my holiday time queuing up to ask to remove it or have to explain why I want it removed. Also with some cruise companies it is mandatory such as Costa and NCL. So there is some forcing there but as you said I don’t have to go with those cruise lines and probably won’t .If the crew aren’t getting paid enough that is not me punishing them it’s the cruise company ,it’s their choice to work there.

I Think that tips should be included in the price of the cruise and maybe the cruise line actively encourage people to tip .For instance on my last cruise the cd mentioned a few times the crew and the effort they put in. I see tipping as a reward for excellent service .

 

Let's face it, eightofninekev, we on this side of the pond are never going to agree with our American cousins. IMO there can never be justification to pay staff a slave wage and the fact that they don't come under US labour laws, like someone earlier said, is inexcusable. OK so the ships may be registered in oompa loompa land or wherever, but they are ostensibly American ships, using American currency and all booking is done through the US. It is therefore deplorable to pay staff so poorly. Pay them a decent wage and reward those that are exceptional by way of a tip.

[smeyer418]

Let's face it, eightofninekev, we on this side of the pond are never going to agree with our American cousins. IMO there can never be justification to pay staff a slave wage and the fact that they don't come under US labour laws, like someone earlier said, is inexcusable. OK so the ships may be registered in oompa loompa land or wherever, but they are ostensibly American ships, using American currency and all booking is done through the US. It is therefore deplorable to pay staff so poorly. Pay them a decent wage and reward those that are exceptional by way of a tip.

 

 

But please remember this was not an idea/system/scheme starting by Americans. It was started by Samuel Cunard. I have no problem including in the fare. But whether its in the fare or you pay it as a tip its you who are paying it anyway and it will cost you more if its collected in the fare....

[grand isle joe]

But please remember this was not an idea/system/scheme starting by Americans. It was started by Samuel Cunard. ...

 

.....yea and please ask which country we get the phrase "Shanghaied"from.... how some sailors were "selected" to sail.;)

[cruizinforever]

We generally pay our tips daily an quite often give extra cash ($ 20 - 50 ) to our stewart and waiter .

Yes I am a Canadian .And proud of it .

If you can't afford to tip , go to Dover and throw rocks at the seasgulls.

[PS90]

Let me start by saying that I'm not the OP and I do NOT ever reduce my tips (but I would if I had a good reason).

 

But I have a question to everyone who says "if you can't pay the tips, then don't cruise at all":

 

Do you really think the crew (whom you seem to be trying to support with this statement) would agree with that? If a large percentage of people did take that advice, and therefore the overall number of cruisers dropped dramatically, then the cruiselines would respond by cutting costs - which usually means layoffs. If it came down to it, I would be willing to bet that many of the crew members (in our current world economy, at least) would be willing to make less in tips, but still have a job. I am obviously exaggerating on the effect of these comments, but the business model is the same nonetheless - if people are discouraged from patronizing any business, and that has a subsequent "real-world" effect, then it is often the subordinates that will suffer first.

 

In other words, I can see some of the crew reading these comments and thinking "thanks for trying to defend us, but please shut up!"