NCL stop the 15% gratuity on drinks, please

[ZoneHPH]

OP...if you think it's wrong to automatically add the 15% gratuity, then cruising is not for you. Sounds like all inclusive resorts are more your style since almost everything is included...especially the cost of a bartender popping the cap off of your beer.

[newmexicoNita]

I really can't dispute what you are saying and for the most part agree on that reasoning of why they do it (not what they do). On saying that I will reiterate then that NCL be upfront and not claim one thing on their web site and one when you board the ship!

 

NCL Quote from FAQs: certain staff positions provide service on an individual basis to only some guests. We encourage those guests to acknowledge good service from these staff members with appropriate gratuities. For example, for guests purchasing bar drinks the RECOMMENDED gratuity is 15 percent.

And then once onboard add an AUTOMATIC 15% gratuity. That in my opinion is blindsiding the customer and just plain bad business practice.

 

I think what they are saying and not very clearly, is that 15% is for a reason. No one would really think a 30% gratuity is expected. It does sound confusing.

 

NIta

[che5904]

I think what they are saying and not very clearly, is that 15% is for a reason. No one would really think a 30% gratuity is expected. It does sound confusing.

 

NIta

 

Oh yes Nita I totally agree what they are trying to say is the bar staff or spa, butlets etc aren't going to be included in your $12 surcharge gratuity whatever you choose to refer to it as. And the confusing part is what makes newer cruisers feel that they are being duped, blindsided whatever word is chosen.

 

You see a lot of sentences in their FAQs that could be taken a few ways for marketing purposes, but I do have to say this one is worded the worst. I know on our last cruise (we are not big drinkers at all) that I was rather shocked believing tipping these people was recommended (meaning optional) and to be told once on board it was an automatic. Now granted I had that amount in my budget when I figured approx amount of drinks and $1 tip / person but still I didn't like that they gave me 2 different answers. So it was actually the principal of it not the money.

 

And really that has been my view through this entire post, not that if we do and can afford to go out that I don't tip, just the principal of people feeling it is entitled or expected. To me then its an obligation and part of the price, not a compliment to wonderful service received.

[ColinIllinois]

I can't wait until next months 10 page tipping and daily service charge thread. I look forward to them. :D

 

Have a great day fellow cruisers.

[sparks1093]

Our continued support of cheap cruise's by NCL and other cruise lines will never ever benefit those members of staff. No matter how many tips we give. Don't kid yourselves.

 

Just because someone is paid by tips does not mean that person is underpaid. The cruiseline staff are able to make more working on a cruiseship than they can in their home country, substantially more. I would hazard a guess that the vast majority of staff members are quite happy with the system, as long as guests do their part.

[che5904]

i can't wait until next months 10 page tipping and daily service charge thread. I look forward to them. :d

 

have a great day fellow cruisers.

 

...:d

Edited February 15, 2011 by che5904

[newmexicoNita]

From NCL.co.uk: What extras do I need to budget for?

 

Extras on board, which are in U.S.$ include:

• Service charge, if not already pre-paid

Plus

• Additional tips on board and ashore and any other item not expressly included in the fare.

 

I guess it just depends what was "expressly included" in your fare. For what you're paying, I don't blame you for being upset about the butler/concierge tipping. The drinks are a different story...

 

I am glad you were able to locate and post this. I haven't read all the thread but it does seem clear to me the extra drink tips should not upset the poster. I still think this has more to do with people in some parts of the world not accustom to tipping so no matter where they are, or how the tip is administered they would be unhappy. I even feel this way about the butler and concierge, to me it is pretty well known anytime you have services of specail people and get specially attention there will be a tip involved or someway of saying Thank you.

 

Nita

[Dutch Explorers]

I am Dutch and back here in the Netherlands we are not used to tip like in the US but in my opinion the prepaid gratuities is a very good and fair system. This is equal for everybody no matter what you paid for your cruise.

 

And now to start the discussion....:)

 

However on drinks it is slightly different as it is based on the price of the drink. What is the difference in service between ordering a bottle of Petrus for $2,000 or a bottle of house wine for $20? You get the same service but the 15% gratuity is 100 times more on the expensive bottle....just food for thought....

[che5904]

I am Dutch and back here in the Netherlands we are not used to tip like in the US but in my opinion the prepaid gratuities is a very good and fair system. This is equal for everybody no matter what you paid for your cruise.

 

And now to start the discussion....:)

 

However on drinks it is slightly different as it is based on the price of the drink. What is the difference in service between ordering a bottle of Petrus for $2,000 or a bottle of house wine for $20? You get the same service but the 15% gratuity is 100 times more on the expensive bottle....just food for thought....

 

:) Interesting point. I have had that same thought when it came to land restaurants. My little waitress in our local diner actually seems to work harder to please us and is probably paid less than the waitress in the upscale restaurant and yet I am "expected" to pay in dollars a higher tip to the one who works in the upscale restaurant.

 

Now before I get jumped on again, I do realize at least in Canada that my tip in the higher-end restaurant usually goes to more people within the establishment: hostess etc.

 

But I did think this poster had a fair point.

 

 

**The prettier your plate the more hands that have touched it** :D

[Cruisin'cockney]

Wow! Another gratuity debate. I think it is fair to say that UK/European/Aussie/SA cruisers will never fully agree with auto gratuities and DSC's as it so against their day to day experience. Having travelled to the US every year for the past 20 years i am familiar with the need to allow for tips in many more situations than at home. Don't like it but accept it as the cost of visiting a wonderful country. Similarly I am aware of the need to allow for tax to be added at the cash desk. In the UK and much of europe tax is included in the price and the ticket price is what you pay.

 

It is true that in the UK 10 or 15% is often (but not always) added to the restaurant bill as a service charge but this invariably is not a gratuity that is given to the server and is merely an acknowledgement that you are using restaurant premises to consume the food and is often retained by the restaurant. It is not added to take away food.

 

Finally, it shouldn't be understated that cruisers outside of the US who are sailing NCL pay considerably more for their cruise than US PAX. On a like for like basis UK cruisers will often pay 25 or 30% more for the same cruise and are prevented from booking thru' US websites. As a result, the cost including gratuities and DSC is considerably more than the same cruise to a US cruiser. Also, NCL price everything onboard in US$ and as a result everything including gratuities and DSC is variable. If you are booking 12 months ahead you can be sure what the cruise cost will be (as it is priced in £) but cannot accurately predict what your onboard costs will be. A family of 4 on 14 night cruise can easily see their DSC change by $200 just due to an adverse movement in exchange rates! :eek:

 

That's it from me on this subject.

[sparks1093]

Finally' date=' [/font']it shouldn't be understated that cruisers outside of the US who are sailing NCL pay considerably more for their cruise than US PAX. On a like for like basis UK cruisers will often pay 25 or 30% more for the same cruise and are prevented from booking thru' US websites.

 

No doubt a result of the EU travel protection laws, which of course is a topic for another 9 page thread;).

Edited February 15, 2011 by sparks1093

[Traveller20074]

Saw a cute cartoon the other day..

 

 

"Even GOD only asks for 10%"

 

:D

[SeaShark]

What is the difference in service between ordering a bottle of Petrus for $2,000 or a bottle of house wine for $20? You get the same service but the 15% gratuity is 100 times more on the expensive bottle....just food for thought....

 

Interesting observation, but you are looking at the issue from only one side of the coin...

 

 

Let's say that we have two passengers (Guest A and Guest B) each with a wine budget of $2,300 which they will spend in full (to keep it equal).

 

Guest A orders the Petrus and his bill is $2,000 plus 15% tip of $300 which blows his budget. The cruise worker must open 1 bottle and serve it to receive the $300 gratuity on the $2,000 in sales.

 

Guest B...on the other hand...orders house wine that runs $20 per bottle. So each bottle costs Guest B $20 plus the 15% tip of $3 for a total of $23. Guest B can order 100 bottles of house wine to consume his wine budget. The cruise worker must open 100 bottles and serve them to receive the $300 gratuity on the $2,000 in sales.

 

 

As you can see...the sales are the same, the gratuity received is the same, yet the Guest who orders the lower cost items is causing the cruise worker to have to perform a much greater quantity of work in order to receive the exact same gratuity amount.

Edited February 15, 2011 by SeaShark

[che5904]

Interesting observation, but you are looking at the issue from only one side of the coin...

 

 

Let's say that we have two passengers (Guest A and Guest B) each with a wine budget of $2,300 which they will spend in full (to keep it equal).

 

Guest A orders the Petrus and his bill is $2,000 plus 15% tip of $300 which blows his budget. The cruise worker must open 1 bottle and serve it to receive the $300 gratuity on the $2,000 in sales.

 

Guest B...on the other hand...orders house wine that runs $20 per bottle. So each bottle costs Guest B $20 plus the 15% tip of $3 for a total of $23. Guest B can order 100 bottles of house wine to consume his wine budget. The cruise worker must open 100 bottles and serve them to receive the $300 gratuity on the $2,000 in sales.

 

 

As you can see...the sales are the same, the gratuity received is the same, yet the Guest who orders the lower cost items is causing the cruise worker to have to perform a much greater quantity of work in order to receive the exact same gratuity amount.

 

SeaShark that is exactly what I thought the point was that the poster was making. That basically why should the bar tender receive the "$300" for opening 1 bottle and yet if Guest B bought 100 bottles it would require tons more work but ending up making the same amount in the end. Rather unfair if Guest A & B are dealing with different bar tenders, bar tender #2 - Guest B would have to work much hard for his $300. :confused:

[stanmoto98]

Flying is seldom a luxury, ususlly a necessity...and the major airline employees get pretty good wages and reasonable working hours (I've been in the industry for many years). Cruising on the other hand is strictly a luxury...although I'm really starting to consider it a necessity lately...for me.

If you've actually been in the industry for many years you know that the bolded statement is BS!!

 

Flight attendants in particular make paupers' wages and often work terrible hours. They don't get paid for a large chunk of the actual hours they are at work. If there flight is held at the gate, they aren't being paid even though they must perform their normal duties as if the plane were in flight.

 

A first year flight attendant can earn more on unemployment than from their salary. And if you want to change companies... you start at the bottom as if you are new to the industry, zero seniority and bottom of the pay scale.

 

How do I know this? Read my signature! My wife has been a flight attendant for 15+ years.

[SeaShark]

SeaShark that is exactly what I thought the point was that the poster was making. That basically why should the bar tender receive the "$300" for opening 1 bottle and yet if Guest B bought 100 bottles it would require tons more work but ending up making the same amount in the end. Rather unfair if Guest A & B are dealing with different bar tenders, bar tender #2 - Guest B would have to work much hard for his $300. :confused:

 

Well, yes. However that is because you are looking at the same side of the coin as the other poster. (You will note that I did NOT say he was wrong, I said he wasn't looking at all sides of the issue).

 

 

The other poster's point was to make the service (opening and serving one bottle) and make a judgement based on the difference in gratuity amount (while ignoring the coresponding difference in sales).

 

I am just pointing out that to do a fair comparison, you can make the sales AND the gratuity paid equal so that you can honestly compare the amount of work asked of the cruise line worker to earn the same money from the same sales. We can easily see that the person ordering the lower cost items is creating a significant amount of extra work for the employee without offering any additional compensation.

[dockrocker]

If you've actually been in the industry for many years you know that the bolded statement is BS!!

 

Flight attendants in particular make paupers' wages and often work terrible hours. They don't get paid for a large chunk of the actual hours they are at work. If there flight is held at the gate, they aren't being paid even though they must perform their normal duties as if the plane were in flight.

 

A first year flight attendant can earn more on unemployment than from their salary. And if you want to change companies... you start at the bottom as if you are new to the industry, zero seniority and bottom of the pay scale.

 

How do I know this? Read my signature! My wife has been a flight attendant for 15+ years.

 

A lot of young flight attendants live in my neighborhood because there's an express bus nearby to the airport. This explains why they're so cranky most of the time -- that and the high heels!

[che5904]

Well, yes. However that is because you are looking at the same side of the coin as the other poster. (You will note that I did NOT say he was wrong, I said he wasn't looking at all sides of the issue).

 

 

The other poster's point was to make the service (opening and serving one bottle) and make a judgement based on the difference in gratuity amount (while ignoring the coresponding difference in sales).

 

I am just pointing out that to do a fair comparison, you can make the sales AND the gratuity paid equal so that you can honestly compare the amount of work asked of the cruise line worker to earn the same money from the same sales. We can easily see that the person ordering the lower cost items is creating a significant amount of extra work for the employee without offering any additional compensation.

 

OK I see where you are coming from

[sjbdtz]

How do I know this? Read my signature! My wife has been a flight attendant for 15+ years.

 

 

Don't forget the other part of your signature.... :D;):p

[Dutch Explorers]

Interesting observation, but you are looking at the issue from only one side of the coin...

 

 

Let's say that we have two passengers (Guest A and Guest B) each with a wine budget of $2,300 which they will spend in full (to keep it equal).

 

Guest A orders the Petrus and his bill is $2,000 plus 15% tip of $300 which blows his budget. The cruise worker must open 1 bottle and serve it to receive the $300 gratuity on the $2,000 in sales.

 

Guest B...on the other hand...orders house wine that runs $20 per bottle. So each bottle costs Guest B $20 plus the 15% tip of $3 for a total of $23. Guest B can order 100 bottles of house wine to consume his wine budget. The cruise worker must open 100 bottles and serve them to receive the $300 gratuity on the $2,000 in sales.

 

 

As you can see...the sales are the same, the gratuity received is the same, yet the Guest who orders the lower cost items is causing the cruise worker to have to perform a much greater quantity of work in order to receive the exact same gratuity amount.

 

 

That is exactly my point. Should the cruise worker serving Guest B not get more as he is providing much more service? In this case is serving a bottle of Petrus easy money for the cruise worker.

[agabbymama]

And that's why quite a few of the cruiselines now call it a "Service Charge" or "Hotel Charge" rather than a GRATUITY.

 

I'm from the US, and I've worked as a waitress/hostess, so I can see both sides of the picture. I actually like the auto process. It makes it a lot less hassle trying to figure out how much to give each person.

 

But if the tip, gratuity, service charge, or whatever you want to call it was added into the cruise fare, not only would it raise the fare, but then you'd still be expected to tip. Have you checked out airfare recently? I was going to book a flight from LAX to Belize, found one on Continental that said $364, and when I started to book it, taxes and fees took it to $756. I'm not going to Belize, trust me! You want to talk deceptive policies?

 

I do have sympathy for those not familiar with the cruise industry procedures. My first cruise, I had no idea tipping was the norm, but when you used to get those little envelopes, you sure learned in a hurry. Whether you were prepared or not. Just be glad you found this forum and now know before you go.

 

As for tipping in Europe, it may be included in the bill, or the price of the food, but what about the charge of say 5 EUR TO SIT or 5 EUR for bread on the table. As others have stated, it all depends on where you are from and what you are used to, but when in ROME - Do as the Romans, don't say "THAT'S NOT HOW WE DO IT".

 

OP, And I don't think anyone has mentioned ROOM SERVICE. If you order, there should be a $1 or $2 TIP for that service too. SORRY!

 

I hope you can overcome, and have a terrific cruise. I always just add in about $500 for all the tipping/gratuity/service charges, that way there are NO SURPRISES.

[sparks1093]

Should the cruise worker serving Guest B not get more as he is providing much more service?

 

That would be up to the individual being served, everyone is free to tip over an above the 15%:).

[halos]

:p Aren't you all kinda turning tipping into a huge production??

LOL!

Good grief!!

The time you're putting into this debate costs you more than the lousy pennies you're tipping for a beer. :p

 

I tip because I am being WAITED on. As a woman who left a really cool job to be at home and raise afamily, I totally appreciate service, and paying 15% is a deal.

jmo.

 

*disclaimer*

I had a 'tipped' job :D

 

when in ROME - Do as the Romans, don't say "THAT'S NOT HOW WE DO IT".

 

That 'bout sums it up doesn't it?? :)

Edited February 15, 2011 by halos

[stanmoto98]

Everybody KNOWS was a tip or gratuity is but do they ever really think about what it IS?

 

A gratuity is an additional monetary value that a customer gives based on the service received. It should be voluntary and at the discretion of the customer based on the level of service they feel they received. It is normally a percentage based on the value of the service provided.

 

What the cruise lines should implement is a flat fee service charge! Why? Because of the example presented above between the single $2000 bottle of wine and the 100 $20 bottles of wine.

 

Here's another example to ponder as to why it should be a flat fee service charge:

 

I like a very expensive type of bourbon. My buddy likes Jack Daniels. His Jack & Coke is $5.50 and my bourbon on the rocks is $12. My buddy actually requires more "service" for his drink than I do mine. Yet with the percentage based gratuity I pay an additional $1.17 for a service that required less effort.

 

I think if the cruise lines would just tack on an additional $1 to the price of each drink/beer/glass of wine the customers would actually be happier than seeing that automatic 18% added. Plus, the servers that are actually doing a better job may end up making more money because people may tip on top of the drink charge.

 

For bottles of wine, add another $5-$6 to the cost to break it down to the average number of glasses per bottle.

[stanmoto98]

Don't forget the other part of your signature.... :D;):p

Trust me, I thank god every chance I get for her survival!!