Disappointed & very Unhappy with Celebrity Business Practice

[PartyAllDaTyme]

Much preferred the old price protection policy, especially since we benefited from it on many occasions and have been "burned" by the new one on two cruises since the policy changed. I get all the anger and frustration expressed in this and similar threads, as well as the feeling that X is turning its back on loyal pax who book often and book early. I'm all too happy to jump on the it's-not-fair bandwagon but the fact is, we're demanding more from cruise line than we do from just about any other entity with whom we do business.

 

Take the airlines, for example. They change fares on what seems like an hourly basis yet we don't demand protection should the airfare we paid drop between booking and actually flying. Unlike Celebrity, which protects a reservation until +/- 70 days prior to sailing (even if booked a year or more out), airlines will protect your fare for a mere 24 hours between booking and actually paying, and some have even started charging to hold a reservation at the fare quoted for that 24 hour time period. Air pax never think we're entitled to an upgrade if we book coach and business class drops lower than the fare we paid (yes, that does happen); and, airlines run last minute "sales" all the time, but none of us demands price protection when two weeks prior to a flight, the ticket we bought from NY to St. Louis for $400 is selling for $225. Beyond that, the airlines' "change" fees pretty much negate any savings should we try to cancel/rebook to get a lower fare. In short, when flying we have no entitlement mindset that booking early guarantees us the lowest fare, much less the ability to upgrade.

 

The fact, is, we've all become spoiled by what has been until recently an extremely liberal price protection policy offered by cruise lines. In the past, it was advantageous to book early to get the sailing/accommodations we wanted at a price that was guaranteed to be the lowest. Now the advantages to booking early are still there (with what still remains a fairly liberal price protection policy), but once final payment is made, those advantages may (or may not!) come with a price, literally.

 

Well put. When I first learned about price drops, I figured there were two factors involved. First, prior to final payment, since there was no reason (financial, anyway) to prevent someone from simply cancelling and rebooking, the cruise lines were more than happy to simply adjust the price rather than going through the extra effort. Second, I assumed that with a very competitive business, the cruise lines would be loath to do anything to chase away customers, which would explain why the penalty period did not start immediately, and why they would agree to OBC and/or upgrades based on last-minute booking prices.

 

Apparently, something's changed with the second premise. X feels they have the upper hand, and can increasingly demand that we stick to the original price. Nothing personal, just business. People have become used to having their cake and eating it, too, and so see it as a major injustice that things are changing. No, we don't have to like it, and if other cruise lines are still using the old models, we can choose to vote with our feet.

 

We'll continue to stay with X because of the smoking policy. For us, it's a critical factor due to health concerns. If other cruise lines ever bring their smoking policies in line with X, and if they offer a better price drop policy, we will certainly consider other lines. Nothing personal, just business.

[PS90]

Sorry but this is not even close to being the same kind of a thing. I would bet that if you bought a TV 6 or 8 months ago BUT DIDNT GET THAT TV DELIVERED YET, and never even got it in your home to use, you would be on the phone in a heart beat telling them you want it at the lower price.

 

You can defend Celebrity all you want with the "you knew what the deal was when you signed attitude" but the bottom line is, if your business practice is causing your customers problems, it is probably flawed.

 

I have to agree with you. As an analogy, I used to work (long ago) at a fast-food place to get through college. We would send out coupons in the local paper for discounts on combo meals and stuff like that. Now, each coupon had an expiration date. However, after a while, we realized that getting people into the restaurant and letting them use an expired coupon was a better business practice than making people mad, by telling them "no".

 

In other words, it's a lot smarter to lose a few dollars than set-up a bad policy that routinely makes customers (especially repeat customers) upset. In almost all business models that I understand, and especially those in the service industry, like fast food (and tourism, including cruises) - losing a customer is MUCH worse than losing a dollar.

 

Celebrity's policy is just bad business.

[Ratt]

I think most people do understand what they are getting when the buy a cruise early and the “rules” say that if the price drops after final payment you are basically out of luck.

 

People are not arguing about what the policy is, but rather that the policy sucks, they are not happy with it and want it changed. The way to get things changed is to complain about them. Before anyone makes a comment about a Cruise Critic message board not being the right place to complain about a cruise line policy, you might want to reconsider. I’m sure that some level of monitoring of these boards is done by the cruise lines and as we can see by this thread, it’s obvious that not just the OP is unhappy about this policy. I will say that if they all take some type of action besides discussing it here, be it switching lines, book at the last minute or complain directly to the line itself (my favorite), things might change.

 

When you consider how much money companies are spending to create and maintain loyalty programs such as the Captain’s Club, it’s almost laughable to think that companies would rather have a new customer over an existing one. Don’t get me wrong, companies want new customers as much as they want to keep their existing ones. But many companies now know that marketing to their existing customers is less expensive and is much more effective then marketing to people who are not their customers at all. If those programs didn’t work, then why do most of us have a card / account for every grocery store, casino, airline, hotel, or cruise line?

 

The TV comparison is not good. When you walk into a store and buy a TV, you pick out the one you want, and you know the price at that moment. You pay that price and take the TV home. A lot of stores will even give you a grace period and will refund you the difference if the price drops after you’ve bought the TV. The discussion here is that we have payed for the product and before we get it, the price drops and we don’t get the new lower price. But people that are now buying the same or even a better product get the better price.

 

I do understand that when you wait to buy a cruise you risk not getting the cabin or even the sailing you want, but I do think it leaves a bad taste in the customer’s mouth when they are proactive and book in advanced but end up watching others book the same or even a nicer cabin for less.

 

If this is a concern for you, I would recommend that you write to Celebrity and let them know. If they get enough complaints about it, they might just change the policy.

[Ratt]

I forgot to add something that was told to me by the CEO of of a very large retail chain many years ago when I was a store manager.

 

"If you make one customer happy, they will most likely never tell anyone. But, if you make one customer mad, they will tell everyone they know and will most likely go out of their way to tell anyone that will listen"

 

I think many retail companies teach this to their store managers as I've seen people return an item to a store that has obviously been used many times and is by no means "new". Yet they still get a refund.

[lysolqn]

I forgot to add something that was told to me by the CEO of of a very large retail chain many years ago when I was a store manager.

 

"If you make one customer happy, they will most likely never tell anyone. But, if you make one customer mad, they will tell everyone they know and will most likely go out of their way to tell anyone that will listen"

 

I think many retail companies teach this to their store managers as I've seen people return an item to a store that has obviously been used many times and is by no means "new". Yet they still get a refund.

 

True...but just see how far that reasoning gets you the next time you book a flight and the fare goes down. Playing devil's advocate, I wish someone could explain why we're willing to give the airlines a pass for their non-existent price protection policy but moan, groan and threaten to take our business elsewhere when Celebrity (or any other cruise line for that matter) continues to offer a fairly liberal price protection policy that pax can benefit from for months and in some cases a year or more, and which is still remains valid right up to two-plus months of sailing. I've yet to see anyone complain about being the beneficiary of an early booking discount, so why all the noise because X is now allowing pax who book after final payment to be the beneficiaries of late booking discounts? No one wants to pay more if the price goes up after final payment, but everyone want to pay less if the price goes down - human nature, I guess, but a double standard nonetheless.

[Sabbycat]

True...but just see how far that reasoning gets you the next time you book a flight and the fare goes down. Playing devil's advocate, I wish someone could explain why we're willing to give the airlines a pass for their non-existent price protection policy but moan, groan and threaten to take our business elsewhere when Celebrity (or any other cruise line for that matter) continues to offer a fairly liberal price protection policy that pax can benefit from for months and in some cases a year or more, and which is still remains valid right up to two-plus months of sailing. I've yet to see anyone complain about being the beneficiary of an early booking discount, so why all the noise because X is now allowing pax who book after final payment to be the beneficiaries of late booking discounts? No one wants to pay more if the price goes up after final payment, but everyone want to pay less if the price goes down - human nature, I guess, but a double standard nonetheless.

 

I think the reason people are not understanding of this policy is because it is a CHANGE from their old policy. Also, the trickiness they use to avoid doing a price adjustment for those "grandfathered" in w/ the old matching policy.

I too will be more stratigic in my bookings w/ X. In fact, due to their recent decline in customer service, I am now open to cruising w/ a different line. X's new pricing policy is just one of the customer service blunders that have made up my mind to consider other lines. I doubt that I am the only one w/ attitude.

[Ratt]

True...but just see how far that reasoning gets you the next time you book a flight and the fare goes down. Playing devil's advocate, I wish someone could explain why we're willing to give the airlines a pass for their non-existent price protection policy but moan, groan and threaten to take our business elsewhere when Celebrity (or any other cruise line for that matter) continues to offer a fairly liberal price protection policy that pax can benefit from for months and in some cases a year or more, and which is still remains valid right up to two-plus months of sailing. I've yet to see anyone complain about being the beneficiary of an early booking discount, so why all the noise because X is now allowing pax who book after final payment to be the beneficiaries of late booking discounts? No one wants to pay more if the price goes up after final payment, but everyone want to pay less if the price goes down - human nature, I guess, but a double standard nonetheless.

 

I agree that we accept some companies policies but jump all over others for doing the same thing.

 

The thing that makes it okay for the airlines to do it is that they ALL do the same thing. The cruise lines all have different policies. The same cruise line can have different policies at different times. It's their company so they can do as they wish, I'm making a point. :rolleyes:

 

Would be interesting to see what would happen if all the cruise lines set a fare policy like the airlines have.

 

What would happen if the cruise lines started a policy that said. "You can book now and can take advantage of ANY prices drops between know and your sail date, but you also will have to pay for any fare increase up to your sail date. :eek: I can see the boards filling up now.

 

Hugh

[KruzPrincess]

Actually I can, and I did. The cruise lines are selling a PRODUCT, not a 'relationship'. Just like if I buy a hotel room in Miami at the Intercontinental and then six months later see it on a motels.com site for cheaper. Or an airline ticket. Or any type of Service or product. That's the risk YOU take. We all take. Like it or not. The cruise lines may give the opportunity to 'upgrade' to a higher category cabin based on the price difference. We are lucky they allow that. But bottom line it is a product that they are selling.

 

It may be a product that they're selling, but it's relationship that keep people coming back. That's why they have loyalty programs. In that scheme, I get to decide in the future who I do my business with and I choose not to buy a cruise from Celebrity before final payment date. Who wins in that? I think I do. I get the best deal and Celebrity will virtually lose me as a customer as I like to book in advance. I choose to spend my vacation dollars elsewhere unless I get the cheapest price on Celebrity. I didn't expect a refund nor any OBC. I just wanted a cabin others were getting for the same price or less. That's my choice. In other words, I don't have to take that risk now that I know how Celebrity works.

[KruzPrincess]

We totally agree. Everyone sets their own priorities, and you know the rules going in so why complain after the fact.:confused:

 

Because this is called Cruise Critic? I'm not complaining. I'm sharing my experiences.

[2blueyam]

OK, I keep reading about how people are upset over this policy change and are going to switch to other cruise lines because of it. Are the other major cruise line pricing policies better? Can someone summerize them?

[kat228]

If you have 20 cabins, and fill 15 of them, then drop the price for the remaining 5 cabins to fill them for the cruise, don't you shoot yourself in the foot as a company by allowing already booked customers to take advantage of that lower price? Now all 20 cabins are at the lower price instead of 5. You're effectively lowering the going market rate.

 

It's a chance you take when you book ahead of time, and at some point you just need to book. I mean, there's also the chance in my little example that all 20 cabins could sell and there would be no discounts offered, resulting in you missing the chance to get a cabin entirely if you choose to wait.

 

It's a game you have to play. To complain and say it's bad business practice is a little ridiculous.

[Bridge Maven]

When we booked our first cruise it never even occurred to us that another passenger on the ship might be paying less, or that we could have our price adjusted it they were, but that was during the seventies. Even as recently as ten years ago, I didn't know that because no travel agent advised me of the possibility.

 

It wasn't until I started reading cruise critic that I knew it was a possibility.

 

So I don't think the problem is that the new policy is unfair, when you consider the history of cruising, but that when people are use to a perk and it is taken away people have trouble accepting it.

[Ricky Chan]

If you have 20 cabins, and fill 15 of them, then drop the price for the remaining 5 cabins to fill them for the cruise, don't you shoot yourself in the foot as a company by allowing already booked customers to take advantage of that lower price? Now all 20 cabins are at the lower price instead of 5. You're effectively lowering the going market rate.

 

It's a chance you take when you book ahead of time, and at some point you just need to book. I mean, there's also the chance in my little example that all 20 cabins could sell and there would be no discounts offered, resulting in you missing the chance to get a cabin entirely if you choose to wait.

 

It's a game you have to play. To complain and say it's bad business practice is a little ridiculous.

 

Well said.

 

Ricky

[Snorkel Dawg]

I see some valid points on both sides.

 

But it sure seems to me waiting to book on X until after final payment is due will be how I will book cruises with them in the future. If I choose to book with them in the future. It only makes $ sense! Maybe I won't get exactlly the cabin I would have liked BUT if I'm paying $800.00 to $1,000.00 less for our cruise, I think I can deal with that. That's how much I could have saved holding out on my upcoming sailing. It almost seems like I'm being penalized for booking early. What will X do when people quit booking early entirely?

[dmwnc1959]

It may be a product that they're selling, but it's relationship that keep people coming back. That's why they have loyalty programs.

 

It is not the relationship or the loyalty programs that keep people coming back, its the product. If Celebrity was a mediocre or average run of the mill cruise line but had really good prices and a great loyalty program, would you continue to give them your business simply based on those two factors? I don't think so. You don't say 'Hey, let's book Celebrity because I get all these perks. The food is crap, the ship is just average, and the entertainment is awful, the cabins smell like an ashtray, but they have a great Loyalty Program and we have a good relationship'. Loyalty programs play a very small part in your final decision to book a cruise. If Celebrity Cruises has NO loyalty program at all, would you continue to cruise them. Yes you would, because of the PRODUCT.

 

I look back at my previous analogy of buying a TV to buying a cruise and agree it wasn't the best example, but as others have mentioned buying airline tickets (which can be very expensive especially to Europe, even as much as the cruise itself)*or any major vacation land package, they almost never offer a low-price guarantee or adjustment if the prices drop and you bought it six months ago at a higher price. So why should the cruise lines?

 

There are a lot of excited people booking Europe for 2012 and getting what they want now, but if the price drops two months from sailing don't expect sympathy because you were sure bragging about it back then. And you KNOW the rules.

[lysolqn]

I agree that we accept some companies policies but jump all over others for doing the same thing.

 

The thing that makes it okay for the airlines to do it is that they ALL do the same thing. The cruise lines all have different policies. The same cruise line can have different policies at different times. It's their company so they can do as they wish, I'm making a point. :rolleyes:Hugh

 

 

So you're saying pax don't complain about airlines not offering low price guarantees because ALL airlines are in lockstep and do the same thing, but pax are complaining about X's adjustment to its low price guarantee so it's no longer valid post final payment because NOT ALL cruise lines have that same policy. I don't think so. This thread has nothing whatsoever to do with what other cruise lines are or aren't doing about price guarantees and everything to do with pax who had become extremely comfortable with a particularly generous low price guarantee policy, to the point of believing it was an entitlement, and are now ticked to the max because while the X low price guarantee gravy train hasn't exactly screeched to a halt, it has in fact slowed down a bit.

[Ratt]

So you're saying pax don't complain about airlines not offering low price guarantees because ALL airlines are in lockstep and do the same thing, but pax are complaining about X's adjustment to its low price guarantee so it's no longer valid post final payment because NOT ALL cruise lines have that same policy. I don't think so. This thread has nothing whatsoever to do with what other cruise lines are or aren't doing about price guarantees and everything to do with pax who had become extremely comfortable with a particularly generous low price guarantee policy, to the point of believing it was an entitlement, and are now ticked to the max because while the X low price guarantee gravy train hasn't exactly screeched to a halt, it has in fact slowed down a bit.

 

It is valid to bring up other cruise lines when it was brought up how the airlines deal with price drops.

 

What I was saying was that customers know what they are getting when they buy airlines tickets no matter what airline they buy from because they all have pretty much the same policy regarding price drops. But with the cruise lines all having different policies there are no consistences. Celebrity having a "particularly generous" one and then changing it in a way that goes against the customer does make the customer unhappy.

 

I completely understand why people are upset with the change that Celebrity has made. When I first heard about the change, I checked what date we booked our cruise to see if we were grandfathered in, and we were.

[Bridge Maven]

If I lived in South Florida I would probably wait until after final payment to book a Caribbean cruise, because there are so many options. People who live in South Florida also don't have to worry about coordinating flights and pre cruise hotels with their cruise.

[Ma Bell]

I always wondered when the policy would change. It almost had to. Before the common use of computers by everyone and the discovery of cruise related websites, it was a lot more infrequent that anyone would request a drop in price for their cruise so it was easy to have a policy matching their lowest price for everyone.

 

It does take a certain level of revenue to be able to provide a good quality experience, so a business can either provide the absolute lowest price to everyone and make cost cutting measures, or try to make sure the revenue stays at a minimum level to be able to provide a better quality experience. It's really impossible to do both and stay in business. It's a balancing act.

 

There have been plenty of reports lately about how Celebrity seems to be getting back to providing some of the little touches that had been missing recently and I have no doubt part of it is due to this new policy.

[C-Dragons]

....It does take a certain level of revenue to be able to provide a good quality experience, so a business can either provide the absolute lowest price to everyone and make cost cutting measures, or try to make sure the revenue stays at a minimum level to be able to provide a better quality experience. It's really impossible to do both and stay in business. It's a balancing act.

 

Amen. :)

[lysolqn]

It is valid to bring up other cruise lines when it was brought up how the airlines deal with price drops.

 

What I was saying was that customers know what they are getting when they buy airlines tickets no matter what airline they buy from because they all have pretty much the same policy regarding price drops. But with the cruise lines all having different policies there are no consistences. Celebrity having a "particularly generous" one and then changing it in a way that goes against the customer does make the customer unhappy.

 

I completely understand why people are upset with the change that Celebrity has made. When I first heard about the change, I checked what date we booked our cruise to see if we were grandfathered in, and we were.

 

I'm not sure why you think different cruise lines having different price policies is an issue. Different cruise lines have different levels of service, different quality of food served and different smoking policies but that doesn't seem to be an issue to anyone; in fact, it's applauded.

 

I understand why people are unhappy with the new policy; I liked the old one better too. What I don't understand is where it is written that only pax who book early are entitled to get the lowest prices. Is helping to fill the ship early on any more valuable to the cruise line than helping to fill unsold cabins closer to sail date? I may not like it, but I fail to see anything wrong with a new pricing scheme that offers benefits to those who choose to book early, and the possibility - just the possibility! - of benefits those who are willing to wait and book late. Remember, prices can go up as sail date approaches (and often do) just as easily as they can do down. The choice is available to everyone - book early, get the sailing, accommodations you prefer at a price you deem acceptable and reap the benefits of a best price guarantee until you make final payment, or wait and gamble that your cruise of choice will not only have availability but enough availability for the cruise line to have a need to unload unsold cabins at a fire sale price. Sounds fair to me.

[lysolqn]

I always wondered when the policy would change. It almost had to. Before the common use of computers by everyone and the discovery of cruise related websites, it was a lot more infrequent that anyone would request a drop in price for their cruise so it was easy to have a policy matching their lowest price for everyone.

 

It does take a certain level of revenue to be able to provide a good quality experience, so a business can either provide the absolute lowest price to everyone and make cost cutting measures, or try to make sure the revenue stays at a minimum level to be able to provide a better quality experience. It's really impossible to do both and stay in business. It's a balancing act.

 

There have been plenty of reports lately about how Celebrity seems to be getting back to providing some of the little touches that had been missing recently and I have no doubt part of it is due to this new policy.

 

Frankly, I'm surprised it took X as long as it did to realize it was giving away the store.

[Ratt]

I'm not sure why you think different cruise lines having different price policies is an issue. Different cruise lines have different levels of service, different quality of food served and different smoking policies but that doesn't seem to be an issue to anyone; in fact, it's applauded.

 

I understand why people are unhappy with the new policy; I liked the old one better too. What I don't understand is where it is written that only pax who book early are entitled to get the lowest prices. Is helping to fill the ship early on any more valuable to the cruise line than helping to fill unsold cabins closer to sail date? I may not like it, but I fail to see anything wrong with a new pricing scheme that offers benefits to those who choose to book early, and the possibility - just the possibility! - of benefits those who are willing to wait and book late. Remember, prices can go up as sail date approaches (and often do) just as easily as they can do down. The choice is available to everyone - book early, get the sailing, accommodations you prefer at a price you deem acceptable and reap the benefits of a best price guarantee until you make final payment, or wait and gamble that your cruise of choice will not only have availability but enough availability for the cruise line to have a need to unload unsold cabins at a fire sale price. Sounds fair to me.

 

I don't think it's an issue at all. I was just making an observation that if the cruise lines all had the same basic policy in regards to price drops like the airlines do, people would be much more accepting of it like they are with air fare price drops.

 

We almost always book our cruises way in advance. We do it because we want a specific date, type of room, and MDR time. We completely understand that at some point after final payment the price of the room (or a higher cat) may go down and we won't get to take advantage of it. For us, piece of mind is important. But it doesn't mean we can't complain. :cool:

[Ma Bell]

Frankly, I'm surprised it took X as long as it did to realize it was giving away the store.

 

 

I agree.:)

[Bridge Maven]

I will still continue to book early.. However, if there is a huge difference between balcony cabins and suites, I may decide to book a balcony cabin initially and then pay the difference to upgrade to a suite after final payment, if a suite is available at that time.