Celebrity dumps disabled man on island.

[CaroleLee]

ONE person wrote about their experiences in a handicapped accessible room on the Century, and we don't even know if it was the same room, or the same issue. In fact, that person even said the lip getting into the bathroom as only an issue if the wheelchair was oriented in a particular way, otherwise there wasn't a problem.

 

There are a few issues here:

 

1 - The passenger apparently did not let the tour operator know of his issues, and missed several requirements in the cruise contract WRT expectations of/for passengers with disabilities.

2 - He clearly expected the butler was going to be providing services not contained within the butler's contracted duties with the line and the tour operator

3 - The passenger alleges that he 'paid extra' (according to the original article) to have a butler 'assigned' to assist him - clearly not the case, as we all know, but more hyperbole designed to do nothing but put the cruise line on the defensive. (That statement, BTW, clearly shows that he knew he was going to need assistance above & beyond what a passenger would normally expect, calling into question your suggestion that he may have been 100% self-sufficient.)

4 - Celebrity/RCL is really not the putative tortfeasor here, the ship was chartered by the tour group, his contract was with them first, and only with Celebrity by virtue of any assignment or pass-through from the tour group. My guess is that suing a nude cruise tour operator would not be as sensational or make him as sympathetic as suing Celebrity/RCL

5 - The tour operator went WAY above & beyond and arranged for an aide for him when they were made aware that he was NOT self-sufficient as required by the contract he signed, and even moved people around so that the aide could be housed close to his accommodation - he refused to retain the services of the aide. They were under NO obligation to attempt to make things work out for him so that he could continue on the cruise.

6 - He had the opportunity to bring someone other than his wife when she canceled, he chose not to. He should have considered a caregiver.

7 - He CHOSE to debark. He was not 'kicked off' the ship, he had an option to hire an aide that was found for him or to obtain his own aide, in order to continue on the ship for the remainder of his vacation, when it was found he violated the terms of his contract. He /chose/ not to do so.

8 - He CHOSE a flight that had a layover in Haiti. Neither Celebrity/RCL nor the tour operator forced him onto that flight. That whole part of his story is hyperbole designed to make the reader feel more sorry for him.

 

Neither the tour operator nor Celebrity owes him anything, least of all a refund of his cruise ticket/plane ticket home. He is an adult of sound mind who entered into a contract, the terms of which were freely available, and which he chose to breach. There is no remedy under the law for him, and I hope that Celebrity tells him to pound sand.

 

(BTW - I'm the parent of a handicapped adult. I'm not unsympathetic to his situation, but he was in full control of the outcome of his vacation. He has no one to blame but himself.)

 

DITTO!!!! He had the RESPONSIBILITY which he did not exercise. This is such a set-up. He is not suing but going for arbitration-faster payoff (?) Neither Cel;ebrity nor the charter company "owes" him anything. He CHOSE to IGNORE the contract.

Carole

[seven5tx]

The article states that he was booked in an accessible cabin. Many posts are complaining that he was not. Celebrity had every right to debark him at his own expense. I'm a TA doing cruises. Reminded me of a client a few years back. She booked the Pride of America in Hawaii. Her husband was a dialysis patient and she booked dialysis appts at the various ports. How stupid can you get. We all know that a ship can leave port and not see land again for a long time due to weather etc.

[CaroleLee]

If anyone ought to sue anyone, you'd think it was the people who were stuck being his tablemates. ;):D

 

I really hope that nobody caves in to this guy and that he receives no compensation or award for his own negligence, but suspect that there will be a settlement simply to avoid ongoing negative publicity fueled by rags such as the Oakland paper.

 

On the other hand, I would hope that responsible organizations related to people with disabilities would distance themselves from his case or perhaps even advocate in favor of the cruiseline and tour operator.

 

OOOEEE :D:D Bob and Phyl

 

Good point-has anyone heard from other people on the cruise?

Carole

[fungo]

When did he "hire" the butler? Before or after his wife canceled? Seems suspect that his wife cancelled at the last minute and he was somehow able to "hire" a butler at the last minute.

 

Even if he had though, why not spend that money on a caregiver instead? Surely, after over a decade of being sick, he must realize that his condition is medical in nature, and requires more than fresh towels and a full ice bucket :D

[Crewzer33]

His attorney is disabled (blind) and is a "champion for the rights of disabled". However, their firm's incessant advertising is all about "settlements". They will sue anybody and everybody who has any sort of "interest" in the incident and take nuisance settlements that all add up. So it's all about the money.

[detroitcruiser]

All great points!!! I happen to agree with you.

 

And OP, if the man slips and falls off the toliet and can't get up by himself, I would definitely say that he is not "self-sufficient" and needs help. Surely if you ever studied law, you would know about "facts". Apparently you are well acquainted with the man in question and his attorney and have worked with them, according to another poster (which you never even responded to) and you should be aware of the "facts" and that this man was not "dumped" from the ship (as you said in your opening remark), but given the opportunity to get the assistance he needed to continue on with his cruise vacation. The article is indeed rediculous stating the man "made sure he’d receive extra assistance on the cruise before he bought the ticket" and paid $4,000 (which was actually the cost for both him and his wife, but it made it sound like he paid extra for a personal assistant) for a butler to be "assigned to him", which is impossible with the cruiseline contract.

 

This man was totally 100% responsible for himself and his own actions and knew or should have known that he needed assistance and would not be able to rely on the butler for his day to day assistance. He cannot blame Celebrity, Royal Caribbean or anyone else for his misfortunes and his own personal choices with regard to the cruise, the cabin he chose, or the flight arrangements. No one made this man get on the ship by himself even though he paid for another passenger and could have had someone else accompany him to assist him. No one made this man refuse to accept the help of a nurse or caregiver when the charter company went out of their way to help him. A cruiseline is not a nursing home or an assisted living facility and it's crew is not trained or required for assistance as such.

 

I think it's a shame that this man, the "journalist" and you (if you are connected with this man and his lawyer) are all mispresenting the facts in a way to make the cruise line look bad and seem at fault.

Given the reports of other cruisers, this one "accessible" Sky-Suite on the Century appears to not be truly accessible. One must ask the question, if he had been given an appropriate room would any of this have happened. Many of your are making an illogical leap that wheel chair bound and being self sufficient are mutually exclusive. With appropriate accommodations, many people in wheel chairs can be self-sufficient.

[detroitcruiser]

His attorney is disabled (blind) and is a "champion for the rights of disabled". However, their firm's incessant advertising is all about "settlements". They will sue anybody and everybody who has any sort of "interest" in the incident and take nuisance settlements that all add up. So it's all about the money.

 

I believe Mr. Bernstein has stated publicly that he is handling the case pro bono and is only looking for his client to get his money back. I am not sure how that adds up to anything for the lawyer.

[Greghouseo]

All I can say is the cruise lines must be desparate for money to have a nude cruise for heaven sake. That's revolting. If this guy chose this cruise its no wonder no one wanted to sail with him. In fact, was he nude in his cabin? That might be why the cabin steward refused to help. What a picture this paints!

 

Do your own search of Nude cruise on Celebrity Century and there it is in black and white. This was a nude cruise that was chartered by a group. The only way this man could have known about it was thru this group. If he dealt with this group and not the ship directly then its the charter that he needs to go after. Not the cruise line. I am ashamed of Celebrity for this behavior. How they can allow their crew to be treated this way is astonishing. This is so uncivilized and I don't know who these people are that want to prance around in the nude. Its gross.

 

Came from the dark ages............. suggest you go back there.

[sarahc78]

Did it say anywhere why he declined to hire the in room nurse?

[TravelerThom]

This is exactly what I was getting at: CRUISE LAW NEWS has named Celebrity Cruises the Worst Cruise Line in the World, simply based off this ONE opinion piece. :mad:

 

http://www.cruiselawnews.com/articles/worst-cruise-line-in-the-world/

I did get one good chuckle out of this link, when Jim Walker, Esq, maritime attorney pleadingly asks "Where is the compassion people?" Although I know attorneys who personally are very nice, legal ethics and legal compassion have little in common with what us people with less legal education think is ethical or compassonite. Obviously this is my opinion, but I'd wager a significant amount of dollars that I'm in the majority on that.

 

Thom

[PartyAllDaTyme]

Given the reports of other cruisers, this one "accessible" Sky-Suite on the Century appears to not be truly accessible. One must ask the question, if he had been given an appropriate room would any of this have happened. Many of your are making an illogical leap that wheel chair bound and being self sufficient are mutually exclusive. With appropriate accommodations, many people in wheel chairs can be self-sufficient.

 

If he fell off the toilet and could not get back up by himself, he is not self-sufficient. If he was on the toilet, the lip apparently did not prevent him from reaching it.

 

I believe Mr. Bernstein has stated publicly that he is handling the case pro bono and is only looking for his client to get his money back. I am not sure how that adds up to anything for the lawyer.

 

Publicity? Buzz? A little something to add to the resume as a staunch defender of the downtrodden?

[YOW]

Why would a disable person will go on chartered nude cruise? Is he a nudist?

 

Same reason some people go on a cruise to hear Perry Grant. To each their own, vive la différence, etc.

[rebeccalouiseagain]

Came from the dark ages............. suggest you go back there.

 

I disagree. My remarks are strongly worded and for that I apologize. It was my opinion. Not everyone would agree with my stance. I am certainly not worried about this nude cruising just mystified that people would want to be in close quarters standing elbow to elbow at the buffet in the buff. To me is sounds awful. I was just surprised given that Celebrity is a mainstream cruise line that they would subject their crew to this indignity. That's how I feel but I understand that there are others that think this behavior is normal. I'm just not one of them... also, this man is trying to garner sympathy and it is relevant that this was a nude cruise and perhaps he didn't use sound judgement because he wanted so badly to participate in this type of cruise. I wouldn't chose him as the poster boy for the ADA.

[kitkat9438]

Given the reports of other cruisers, this one "accessible" Sky-Suite on the Century appears to not be truly accessible. One must ask the question, if he had been given an appropriate room would any of this have happened. Many of your are making an illogical leap that wheel chair bound and being self sufficient are mutually exclusive. With appropriate accommodations, many people in wheel chairs can be self-sufficient.

 

Again we are talking about the facts, not making illogical leaps to conclusions. It is stated clearly on the Century deck plan, there are TWO Sky Suites with wheel chair accomodations and several ocean view cabins with these accomodations as well. If this man is already in the bathroom on the toliet and he "slipped and fell off", and couldn't get up by himself, (even though there are grab bars as noted in the picture) that is not self-sufficient. If, as noted by Celebrity spokesperson, he had to have assistance getting in and out of his wheelchair and in and out of the bed, that is not self-sufficient. If I fall down, I can get myself up. Do you not understand the difference?

 

[mamapan]

but·ler (btlr)

n. The head servant in a household who is usually in charge of food service, the care of silverware, and the deportment of the other servants

 

nurse (nûrs) n. 1. A person educated and trained to care for the sick or disabled.

 

You tell me which this guy should have traveled with. I don't want someone in charge of silverware and food service to be in charge of making sure I can get on the toilet and safely in and out of my wheelchair.

 

And I certainly don't want to pay a nurse to be in charge of my silverware when he/she should be helping me with my personal health/safety issues.

[kitkat9438]

Did it say anywhere why he declined to hire the in room nurse?

Hey Sarah! ironically, no it didn't say that. You had to actually read the research that cruise critic did with the interviews with Celebrity to find out what was going on to even know that he was offered a nurse. I don't think it was a conicidence that that was conveniently left out of the "story" to make it look like he was "dumped" without any options on an island all by himself by the big bad cruise company.

 

After all if he REALLY wanted to make sure he had personal assistance as he is claiming in the article he would have accepted the help when he realized he could not manage on his own. I too am skeptical about all of this.

[NLH Arizona]

I have a couple of problems with the information stated in the newspaper article and with this suit.

 

One, it stated: “I was in shock and couldn’t believe it,” he said. “Before I got onboard nobody raised any issue about my disability.” Why would anyone raise an issue about his disability. Cruising is an independent mode of travel. Just like a hotel or resort; would one expect caregivers to help them with their everyday needs at a hotel or resort, no. I use to work in an independent living property. There was a lovely lady there who had polio and was wheelchair bound. She never needed any help with her everyday needs; she got in and out of bed herself, dressed herself. So, I don't understand why this gentleman would think that Celebrity had a crystal ball and would know he could not take care of himself, when there are millions of wheelchair bound individuals that are able to care for themselves.

 

Two, the article stated: “Not one of the workers would help me get back in my chair,” he said. But in the case against Northwest Airlines one of the issues was: a Roseville resident who uses a wheelchair due to quadriplegia, has been dropped to the floor due to improper assistance. Now knowing this happens when untrained personnel lift a person, I can not understand why this gentleman (or his attorney) would be suing because an untrained, unlicensed employee would not be lift this gentleman, which could have caused him injury (which then I would guess they would sue for). When a resident fell where I worked, we were instructed to call for the resident nurse (which is apparently what Celebrity did) and never try to help the resident get up, because we could hurt them.

 

I am sure that all of us on here and in the world want to make sure that individuals with disabilities are able to live a full and happy life without obstructions that hinder that, but I don't think this type of suit is helping their cause.

[PartyAllDaTyme]

Steve, you are making an assumption that gives Celebrity the benefit of the doubt as to the reason for the lip or bump up at the top of the ramp to the bathroom. I think it much more likely that the Century staff/Celebrity thought the ramp was a good enough solution to provide wheelchair access to the bathroom. It did work for our disabled family member as long as the wheelchair did not come in at an angle to the bathroom doorway/ramp.

 

Correct, I have no direct knowledge, but it doesn't make sense that they would leave a non-compliant lip or bump in an accessible cabin if they could avoid it. 1200 and 1201, the accessible Sky Suites, were created in the 2006 refurbishing. Prior, there was a standard Sky Suite and a Concierge cabin occupying the space. This, at least, created the only two accessible cabins with balconys on the Century. I don't know if this is the reason why a lip remains or not, but I'm guessing it was cost-prohibitive to remove them completely. I'm certainly no expert, but I believe ADA precludes the necessity to achieve full compliance if it's impractical from a cost standpoint. I could be way off base on this, though. You say that it did work well enough for your family member-- I wonder if anyone else since 2006 has had the same difficulty as Mr. Keskeny had?

 

I do sympathize with the problem in getting access to the balcony, and think that Celebrity should do more to rectify this. This is a separate topic from the one at hand, however.

 

Playing devil's advocate, I can see some logic in saying that the lip was the reason for the difficulty. If you have a cabin booked that's listed as accessible, you're not anticipating not being able to get over the lip to get to the bathroom. Whether the lip is exempt from ADA requirements because it's too costly to completely remove is a moot point. Some disabled may be mobile enough, have the arm strength, or have motorized wheelchairs that can negotiate the lip, but not necessarily.

 

However, this is all trumped by the fact that Mr. Keskeny did manage to get into the bathroom by himself on the third night, so evidently the lip was not an insurmountable obstacle, after all. The fact that he fell off the toilet and could not get back up would be evidence enough that he was not self-sufficient enough to travel unaccompanied. An offer was made to secure him the assistance he obviously required, and he refused. He's now complaining about the cost and inconvenience of getting home, when it would have been much less expensive to get the assistance.

[sarahc78]

Again we are talking about the facts, not making illogical leaps to conclusions. It is stated clearly on the Century deck plan, there are TWO Sky Suites with wheel chair accomodations and several ocean view cabins with these accomodations as well. If this man is already in the bathroom on the toliet and he "slipped and fell off", and couldn't get up by himself, (even though there are grab bars as noted in the picture) that is not self-sufficient. If, as noted by Celebrity spokesperson, he had to have assistance getting in and out of his wheelchair and in and out of the bed, that is not self-sufficient. If I fall down, I can get myself up. Do you not understand the difference?

 

I am confused lol. The way the CC story reads is that he fell off a toilet. It didnt say it was in his room necisarily. So I just assumed they meant he fell off a toilet in a public restroom. Otherwise how did passengers help him up? Did Celebrity call passengers to help him up? This whole thing is very confusing lol.

Hey Sarah! ironically, no it didn't say that. You had to actually read the research that cruise critic did with the interviews with Celebrity to find out what was going on to even know that he was offered a nurse. I don't think it was a conicidence that that was conveniently left out of the "story" to make it look like he was "dumped" without any options on an island all by himself by the big bad cruise company.

 

After all if he REALLY wanted to make sure he had personal assistance as he is claiming in the article he would have accepted the help when he realized he could not manage on his own. I too am skeptical about all of this.

 

Ok I didnt think I saw a response to why he didnt hire the nurse. Wouldnt that have been cheaper than flying himself all the way home from a foriegn country?

[PS90]

This is exactly what I was getting at: CRUISE LAW NEWS has named Celebrity Cruises the Worst Cruise Line in the World, simply based off this ONE opinion piece. :mad:

 

http://www.cruiselawnews.com/articles/worst-cruise-line-in-the-world/

 

Well, this particular website probably won't hurt Celebrity much, since it is blatantly obvious that they have an underlying agenda. But your point is well taken - it doesn't take much (especially with the internet) to turn a single, biased report into "world-wide news".

 

Working in the veterinary medical field, this happens all the time. I remember a huge media buzz in the horse industry a few years ago, about a terrible new disease called "Whisper Syndrome" that was killing horses in an epidemic on the East Coast. People were frantic about getting prepared for this new disease, and kept constantly asking if we were developing a "emergency vaccine" for it. Everyone was sure that their horse was going to die, and it had been made worse by the West Nile Virus scare that had arisen only a year or two before that.

 

After a little more digging into the actual research about this disease, however - turns out that a client took a very sick horse to a big veterinary clinic in Maryland, who recommended that this horse needed surgery ASAP to remove a large abdominal cancer. The client declined the surgery due to the cost of it, and the horse subsequently died. Right after that, this client started a web blog, saying that her horse died of a new nasty disease and the veterinarians had no idea what it was. Multiple animal-rights groups jumped on this blog and it spread like wildfire - at least until everyone figured out what had really happened.

[PartyAllDaTyme]

I am confused lol. The way the CC story reads is that he fell off a toilet. It didnt say it was in his room necisarily. So I just assumed they meant he fell off a toilet in a public restroom. Otherwise how did passengers help him up? Did Celebrity call passengers to help him up? This whole thing is very confusing lol

 

Good point, he may not have been in his cabin. But the public bathrooms have accessible stalls. If he fell and could not get up without assistance, it could have happened just as easily in the cabin bathroom, lip or no lip. I think this incident makes the issue of the accessibility of the bathroom moot.

 

BTW, Jobeth66, post #178 was excellent!

[jimdalva]

DW and I were on that cruise,but I have no first hand info to add. We are however nudist. Id like to add that as a group we are very clean and we use towels where ever we sit. Think about all the non nudist who sit bare bottom on the furnishings IN their cabin before you. As a group we are mostly easy to get along with and the crew seems to enjoy working with us. Nudist are a growing group and many nude cruises are offered by several travel companies every year. Try it you might like it. Some will some will never,to each their own.

[cnote100]

DW and I were on that cruise,but I have no first hand info to add. We are however nudist. Id like to add that as a group we are very clean and we use towels where ever we sit. Think about all the non nudist who sit bare bottom on the furnishings IN their cabin before you. As a group we are mostly easy to get along with and the crew seems to enjoy working with us. Nudist are a growing group and many nude cruises are offered by several travel companies every year. Try it you might like it. Some will some will never,to each their own.

 

Thanks for the info and perspective - I think it was needed for this thread.

 

Moreover, the only relvant part of the fact that this was a "Nude Cruise" is the fact that it was a chartered cruise therefore adding a different wrinkle that might play into this scenario.

[PartyAllDaTyme]

Thanks for the info and perspective - I think it was needed for this thread.

 

Moreover, the only relvant part of the fact that this was a "Nude Cruise" is the fact that it was a chartered cruise therefore adding a different wrinkle that might play into this scenario.

 

LOL! LMAO! ROTFLMAO!:D:D:D

 

Oh, lord, I just couldn't resist!

[Jobeth66]

Given the reports of other cruisers, this one "accessible" Sky-Suite on the Century appears to not be truly accessible. One must ask the question, if he had been given an appropriate room would any of this have happened. Many of your are making an illogical leap that wheel chair bound and being self sufficient are mutually exclusive. With appropriate accommodations, many people in wheel chairs can be self-sufficient.

 

Can you explain (or ask him or his attorney) why he chose to leave the ship rather than hiring the aide they found for him?

 

Can you ask him why he didn't choose to bring someone else when his wife canceled?

 

Or why he thought the butler was going to be his personal assistant?