Celebrity dumps disabled man on island.

[PartyAllDaTyme]

Yes, unless there is a reputable source, the thread should be removed from the record/forum as heresay. :D

 

"Heresay?" Wow, I was not aware the Federal Rules of Evidence applied to the CruiseCritic Message Board.

 

Since you're legally blind, it's possible that whatever software you use to read these posts does not translate emoticons. There's a "big grin" smiley face following the post, signifying that the poster meant the comment to be taken humorously.

 

I'm finding myself agreeing with the sentiment, though. This news aritcle-- excuse me, column / opinion piece that's news but not actually news-- is so obviously incomplete, misleading and biased to those of us with some knowledge of the reality of the situation as to make it laughable, at this point. I notice that the reader comments on the Oakland Press webpage are universally negative, as well, though some may have been posted by Cruise Critic members who went to that page to read the article.

 

I have sympathy for someone crusading and actively advocating for the rights of the handicapped. However, based on what we're been able to deduce and infer, the methodology is severely in question. I fear Mr. Keskeny has hurt rather than helped the cause he is attempting to advance. One of the possible justifiable grounds for complaint is the small lip or bump going into the bathroom on Century, but this is the only ship in the fleet with that problem, and apparently it would be cost prohibitive to remedy it, thus exempting RCCL from compliance.

 

For those who are not aware, Celebrity is introducing separate cabin categories for accessible cabins, beginning in 2012. Here's information from Host Andy--

Here's the rundown on the Accessible Categories :

 

AZ is Accessible Inside Stateroom

 

AX is Accessible Veranda

 

AC is Accessible Concierge Class

 

AA is Accessible Aqua Class

 

AW is Accessible Sky Suite

 

I'm pretty sure there is a Code for Accessible Outside Cabin, but I cannot locate it at the moment. I hope this helps !

 

We're assuming Accessible Outside Cabin will be AY.

 

I found out about this when I booked our upcoming cruise and got two adjacent cabins, one of them accessible for DMIL, which I thought would both be 2A. The accessible one was AX, and was priced the same as a 2C. I'm still not able to see these on the online deck plans-- instead of the cabin categories, I get the dreaded box with red X, unreadable graphic, and no actual deck plan is visible. Since I don't believe these can be booked online, they may not show these, anyway.

 

Just one more thing Celebrity is doing for its handicapped guests.

[cruisestitch]

Two questions:

 

From the so-called news article == "paid extra to have a butler assigned to him to help him since he was traveling alone."

 

Has anyone ever heard of this being done, and in fact, isn't the opposite true that you cannot pay extra to have a butler assigned to you (although you can pay for a person to accompany you to assist you.)

 

Where is "Quadalupe", where he was supposedly "dumped"?

[Denny01]

Wow Steve, great post.

 

Not only does it provide legit info that is handy for all of us, it was very evenhanded. Its difficult on threads such as this when it pertains to a specific situation none of us have any real direct insight into, so we speculate...and even when our opinon seems rational, it is still guesses. Your post gave us some useful information beyond some specific case that from the face of it, seems to rasie more questions than provide any real useful info.

 

glad a came back to check it out once more. Always enjoy your posts.

 

Thanks!

 

Den

[cruisestitch]

One more question:

 

Assuming this passenger was flying from Guadaloupe (not Quadaloupe as the article stated) to Miami, on the Air France flight which has a stopover in Haiti, there would not be any reason to deplane and expose oneself to deadly disease, would there???

[PartyAllDaTyme]

Thanks, Denny, that means much to me, coming from you. I thoroughly enjoy your posts, as well.

[CaroleLee]

Thanks, Denny, that means much to me, coming from you. I thoroughly enjoy your posts, as well.

 

Other than the original article has there been any follow-up stories in the legit press?

Agree with OP if he is truely an advocate and not someone who wants to "sound off" than he has done damage to the advancement of rules, regs and policies.

There is a lot more to this story than" I've fallen and my butler would pick me up"

 

Carole

[montgomeryfamily]

One of the possible justifiable grounds for complaint is the small lip or bump going into the bathroom on Century, but this is the only ship in the fleet with that problem, and apparently it would be cost prohibitive to remedy it, thus exempting RCCL from compliance.

 

 

Steve, you are making an assumption that gives Celebrity the benefit of the doubt as to the reason for the lip or bump up at the top of the ramp to the bathroom. I think it much more likely that the Century staff/Celebrity thought the ramp was a good enough solution to provide wheelchair access to the bathroom. It did work for our disabled family member as long as the wheelchair did not come in at an angle to the bathroom doorway/ramp

.

However, we had other wheelchair access problems on our Century cruise, both in the cabin and outside of it. As I stated in my first post, we were in a Century skysuite and there was also NO ramp to the balcony and therefore for us, no wheelchair access to the balcony. The balcony is one of the primary reasons we book a skysuite. When I requested the balcony ramp and continued to elevate that request, I was actually told by Guest Relations that I could lift my family member in his wheelchair over the balcony step and that he could gain access to/from the balcony that way. I responded that not only was this physically impossible for me, but also unacceptable to the family member. Their response was basically that was too bad for us and so I continued to elevate the issue. What made the situation on the Century even more distressing to me is that on every other Celebrity ship we have been (we have always booked a skysuite except for the one time we booked an AQ), there was a wheelchair ramp to the balcony. So there was no legitimate reason for not having a ramp to the balcony and indeed, after I spoke to the Captain and First Officer at the Navigation briefing, one was placed on the balcony. These ramps are portable and it is not "cost prohibitive" to build or purchase one and place on the balcony.

 

In addition, the pool lift was not functioning on our cruise either. Repair or replacement of the pool lift is not cost prohibitive. And a pool lift is advertised on the Celebrity website as a accessible feature on the Century. Their excuse that they only get a few requests for use of the pool lift was not acceptable to us as a reason for not repairing or replacement.

 

We had always had a great experience on Celebrity before our Century cruise and a great experience on our two Solstice cruises afterward. And except for the Century, the staff has always been outstanding both generally and in respect to handling wheelchair access and assistance. If this was not so, we would not be Elite by virtue of taking Celebrity cruises (and not because we are Diamond Plus on Royal Caribbean). But I won't cover up their failings on the Century because of this. Not everything that they do or don't do is justified by the "cost prohibitive" excuse. That is why as I said in my first post that based on our experience I would never recommend the Century to anyone who is in a wheelchair. I do think that otherwise Celebrity is an outstanding cruise line for the disabled, including those in wheelchairs, both in terms of ship features and service.

 

As for the man in this article, I don't know about his situation and will not take a position on his claims. But I don't think we will hear the end of it since the story has been pick up on USA Today.

[Erica@cruisecritic]

Cruise Critic interviewed Celebrity and the nude charter operator. Here's what we learned: http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=4446

 

Hope this helps to clear up some of the situation.

[YOW]

Thank you, Cruise Critic, for shedding more light on this.

[cruisestitch]

Very interesting -- he had already paid for two passages, chose not to make a substitution, didn't inform his TA (group tour operator) of his needs ahead of time, didn't (apparently) read the contract, and it's all Celebrity's fault?

[Jellybelly]

I cannot believe this guy would think that they would help him with stuff like getting in and out of the bathtub.

As a person who has dealt with a handicapped person in a wheelchair on a vacation who needed alot of assistance with daily care I can totally understand what it is like to take care of them. We took my Father in Law on a trip to Vegas with us and we had an accessable room which was great. But he needed alot of care from us or he would not have been able to be there

This guy I am sure knows what his physical limitations are and so does his wife and it sounds like they werent exactly straight foward with the cruise line. They could have prevented all this expense if they had just canceled when the wife decided she couldnt go.

As far as embarking on the ship he may have been fine when he did this part. You cannot tell from this what his other limitations are.

In one part of the article it said something about the lip going into the bathroom but the was disputed by someone saying there is no lip in the accessable rooms bathroom.

[Tenn4ever]

Well, you know what is said about making assumptions :p but just sort of going on human nature, after his wife got ill and could not go on the cruise he probably did not want to be out the $4000 so went on the cruise anyway. Another assumption - he probably did not even have trip insurance.:(. That's his bad.

[Shining Clem]

I have a disability - a sensory loss & diet adjustment. I have been impressed with the pre-cruise service and accommodation Celebrity is making on my behalf. (Much better than Oceania) Unfortunately MS is one of those diseases which waxes & wanes unpredictability in the disability area. The Keskeny's should have taken out trip insurance, which would have protected them both in the case of sudden illness, such as a flu, with a doctor's affirmation.*

 

I can understand Mr Keskiny's frustrations with the disease, it's nasty, but he shouldn't be taking it out on the cruise line.

 

This must not be the first time this has happened to the cruise lines, as I do remember reading that butlers would not be able to act as aids. I do not see why Celebrity owes these people anything.

 

It appears these people are being selfish and are hurting the cause of handicapped accommodations on cruise ships.

 

* A friend was planning a cruise with her late-80's mother. They took out insurance because of the mother's age. Four days before leaving she had problems with her eyes - went to her ophthalmologist who told her the bright sun in the Caribbean would leave her blind. The insurance handled the cost of the cancellation for both of them.

[wanderlust402]

Cruise Critic interviewed Celebrity and the nude charter operator. Here's what we learned: http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=4446

 

Hope this helps to clear up some of the situation.

 

 

Now this is an example of what a NEWS article would look like. There is research. There are facts presented. There statements from both sides of the issue (including the third side which is the tour operator). There is an avoidance of jumping to conclusions or taking the side of one party or the other.

 

Perhaps the person at Oakland Press should have a chance to read this to find out what an article should contain before being published.

 

Thank you Cruise Critic and thank you Dan Askin for researching and sharing the facts of this incident.

 

Based on this additional reporting, we now know that he had booked an accessible room but did not sail with his companion. It sounds like it would have been better for him to have not sailed and instead made a claim for reimbursement on his travel insurance. No travel insurance? Well, that is a risk and choice that individuals may make.

[rebeccalouiseagain]

thanks for the update.

[PS90]

Now this is an example of what a NEWS article would look like. There is research. There are facts presented. There statements from both sides of the issue (including the third side which is the tour operator). There is an avoidance of jumping to conclusions or taking the side of one party or the other.

 

Perhaps the person at Oakland Press should have a chance to read this to find out what an article should contain before being published.

 

Thank you Cruise Critic and thank you Dan Askin for researching and sharing the facts of this incident.

 

I agree completely.

 

My problem with the article in the Oakland Press is that it is apparently a blog or opinion piece, but nowhere on the webpage that the OP cited does it say that. The only way we know it's an opinion article is that we assume it is, due to the unprofessional writing-style, and because the OP said so. This article is in the "Life" section of the newspaper - and NOT in the "Blog" or "Opinion" sections. Seems like mis-representation to me. I'm glad this "Oakland Press" isn't my local newspaper.

 

Thanks to CC for the unbiased and researched report on the issue.

[bellybutton530]

I hope that there is a "special" mark by his name in the RCI and Celebrity booking systems that will ensure that he doesn't get to try to pull this stunt again....

[ramman]

Isn't a wonderful world we live in? 167 posts speculating, guessing, expressing opinions, and coming to conclusions on a subject about which I believe none of us know all of the details and circumstances of the events that transpired before Celebrity took the action to disembark this man. :eek:

[oncruisecontrol]

His wife didn't want to go because it was a nudist cruise. Sounds like a whackjob (no pun intended)

 

 

This is at least the second (if not the third) judgemental post made. The fact that this was a chartered nude cruise is irrelevant to the situation that a handicapped, 66-yr-old man who seemingly needed personal care (including help with bathing and using the toilet) was travelling without the needed help. Resulting, unfortunately and ultimately, in his being put off the ship. Passengers cannot expect cruise line staff to help with bathing, using the toilet, etc.

[donaldsc]

 

I can understand Mr Keskiny's frustrations with the disease, it's nasty, but he shouldn't be taking it out on the cruise line.

 

 

.

 

He is not angry with just the cruise line; he is angry at the entire world and thinks that the world owes him something.

 

DON

[Bridge Maven]

One problem with online blogs and "news" websites is that it attracts frustrated would be writers that don't have the qualifications to be professional journalists.

[alreadypacked]

Since when is a butler the equivalent of a home health aide or practical nurse?

 

The story is makes me angry and this "activist" makes responsible people with disabilities -- people who understand their needs and take appropriate steps to make sure they are met -- look bad. He's looking for some deep pockets for a lawsuit. Put me on the jury! He won't get a dime.

 

Amen!

[deloris15]

Without knowing 100% of the facts a few points are pretty clear. I read the story and at first I was shocked but after regaining my composure and looking at the facts Celebrity was correct although it may seem heartless to some people. First off the bat I have a disability (although I am blessed that mine is not as severe as this guy) and at no time would I ever go on a vacation and expect someone to take care of me when I get there. A butler is a butler not a home care attendent or a nurse. Any of the cruise lines employees trying to take care of this gentlemen could cause the cruise line to get sued if he would have suffered an injury while trying to help him.

 

It has been said that the wife could not go due to illness at that point due to his disability the trip should have been cancelled maybe they did not have trip cancellation insurance, it would be better to lose 1 fare than 2....... not in this case. Suppose he took sick while he was there what a disaster that would have been in his condition the wife sick at home in the US and he in a hospital on some island somewhere....

 

On the other hand he had the responsibilty to let the cruise line know of the level of disability he had to see what services would or would not be available to him so he could have made a sensible decision. When he arrived for embarkation without someone with him maybe the the cruise line shoukd have asked some questions, maybe not.....Maybe he could have gotten someone to go in his wife's place that would take care of him at the last minute.

 

Celebrity could have used a bit more courtesy in trying to debark him in St. Bart's knowing the ammenties for him to get home without too much complication are not present on such a tiny exculsive island like that.

 

Lesson learned from this I hope so, but the bottom line it is your responsibility to see that your needs are met prior to your trip. If this level of assistance is needed you have to have the common sense to provide this for your own well being and safety.

 

Deloris

[Kellie Poodle]

The fact that he was kicked of the ship was "news" the format was however an opinion piece.

 

 

I don't think "kicked off the ship" is the proper terminology. He breached his contract with Celebrity by not adhering to the terms that required him to be self-sufficient or have a care-giver if he was not.

 

The contract permits the company to put off any passenger who breaches the contract.

 

You're the law student. Read it the contract.

[wl2cruise]

A butler is not a nurse. It's a cruiseline not a assisted living ship.