Celebrity dumps disabled man on island.

[wvufan]

Well, this guy is gonna be the center of attention, and he probably loves it. As will his lawyer.

 

Just because someone has a disability or uses a wheelchair does not make them a wonderful human being. Some really are nice and some are nasty, just like the rest of the population.

 

It seems, though, that sometimes the very nature of the job of being a disability activist or advocate fosters a confrontational attitude. Or maybe it's just that confrontional people tend to gravitate towards such jobs.

 

In my area, there is one guy-an educated, retired scientist- who also has MS and has sort of self appointed himself as the local activist in all matters concerning the ADA, etc etc. He has managed to get himself placed on numerous commmittees and has alientated almost everyone he meets. He is obnoxious, combative, bitter, and does a heckuva lot more harm to the disability community than he does good. He is the kind who likely would have been put off the ship too.

 

Fortunately, locally we also have many people with disabilities and those who serve them in some capacity who are effective advocates and their efforts are needed to counteract the bad image the previous guy projects.

 

As far as this case, the guy did not get an accessible cabin. He did not provide for an attendant or other appropriate assistance. He makes the point in the story that the ship should have been aware of his status and needs when they saw him checking in and somehow provided accommodations. I wonder if they thought they had some magical powers that would have alerted them to the fact that he didn't plan for his needs.

 

Clearly, lifting, seating, etc is beyond any resonsibility of the crew and they would have been very wrong and negligent if they had attempted to do so.

 

Apparently, it got to the point that the cruise line felt that they were unable to safely accommodate him and they had no choice but to remove him from the sailing. To allow him to remain would have been jeopardizing his well being and safety. I suspect it was not a bit of fun for the staff and crew to have to try to deal with him.

 

So, am sorry it ended the way it did, but it was the passenger's fault.

 

Before anyone flames me for being insenstive, I have a special needs child and spent the last 23 years of my working career serving (and advocating for) people with disabilities as a Certified Rehabilitation Counselor. I still have many friends who are deaf, blind, use a wheelchair, have MS, etc. and I am sure they would have the same opinion of this situation.

 

Happy Sails to You

 

OOOEEE :D:D Bob and Phyl

[cirman52]

Ah, the voices of open minded people.

If some people want to flop around in the b'day suits, so what. If you don't care for that, don't go. As for the crew, maybe there was xtra pay, or had volunteered for this cruise. We don't know.

[cruisestitch]

Actually, a lot is known about nude cruises. You can search this forum to find out all the details. Crew are not paid extra to work those cruises (there have been more than one on Celebrity).

 

But, nude or not, no crew member other than medical staff are qualified to assist disable customers to/from toilets and showers. It takes training to learn the best and safest way to transfer patients to/from wheelchairs, beds, chairs and so forth without injury to the patient or the caregiver. Not in the Butler's job description.

[nusail]

I'd be curious to know what services he expected from his Butler. Ugh.

 

I'm sorry but this story cracks me up. At first I felt sorry for the guy but as I read on I realized that he was a weirdo and got booted off probably for various reasons.

 

Also, I love how he claims this was his way of celebrating his retirement. I don't believe that given the statement that he did a world cruise in 2002. Not to many executives have 3 months vacation time. So he is just trying to get his money back. I say give it to him and with the condition that he never cruises Celebrity again.

 

You make a series of fairly harsh judgments based on rather limited information. What happened to giving people the benefit of the doubt?

[riredsox]

There is a difference between going to a nude beach or sunbathing in the nude. I am sure after the initial shock the crew just gets used to it. I am just thinking about the various cultures onboard and wondering how they feel about this because not all nationalities are as accepting. I shouldn't have made these statements because I wasn't looking for a debate on nudity. I guess I am taken aback by it but that's just me. I really hope that they are using towels before sitting on the upholstered furniture. That's what I picture- lots of bare asses on the chairs that I am going to be sitting on. I'm not sailing Century but I would be put off by this on my upcoming Summit cruise. The only place they are required to wear clothes is in the formal dining room per their nude cruise literature. Don't you think that perhaps the butler felt uncomfortable dealing with a naked man in a wheelchair and you know that was the case or he wouldn't have chosen this type of cruise. And yes, in America we don't generally prance around naked in front of each other. I don't think our customs are inferior to others. I am honestly shocked that there are enough nudists that want to take cruises. You learn something new everyday.

 

A crew member is not forced to work the nudist cruise. They can ask to be excused for any number of reasons. They generally aren't as uptight about it as you seem to be.....

[pretty princess]

Totally much more to this story....Where was his wife Nancy. It is not the responsibility of any crew memeber to lift and help passengers with their disabilities. He should have hired a companion. I am sure RCCL did not just throw him off this ship....there is a whole lot missing from this story!!!

[Bridge Maven]

If people want to take a nude cruise that is their prerogative, but I am surprised that the CDC does not have a problem with nude personal parts having direct contact with chairs and sofas in public areas of the ship, that will be used by subsequent cruisers.

[Kellie Poodle]

That is quite an accusation. There is nothing in the story that shows he did not get a HC room.

 

There is. His story stated that there was an obstruction that prevented the wheel chair from rolling into the bathroom. All handicap accessible cabins have a flat floor between the cabin and the bathroom that a wheel chair can easily transverse.

 

The gentleman in the story complained that the bathroom was not accessible.

[detroitcruiser]

There is. His story stated that there was an obstruction that prevented the wheel chair from rolling into the bathroom. All handicap accessible cabins have a flat floor between the cabin and the bathroom that a wheel chair can easily transverse.

 

The gentleman in the story complained that the bathroom was not accessible.

 

Another person on this thread has confirmed that the "accessible" sky suites have a lip from the bathroom into the bedroom -- while not a step per se, it makes it hard for some wheelchair users to enter. Again, it seems there is a difference between the accessible suite and the other accessible staterooms.

[detroitcruiser]

Huh ?????

You posted a short time earlier ( post #17 ) that you were NOT the person referred to in the article, but you had '' noticed the story in the local paper ( theOakland Press ) and thought it would be of interest to the board ''....quite a good intent....

Your present comment on a case which occured years ago involving the same people now tells me your whole interest in this runs just a weebit deeper, closer...., ''different" than originally portrayed....

 

What exactly is your point in starting this thread in the first place ?

 

When stirring a good stew, it helps if we know ALL the ingredients in it...and it's surprising how succesfully tasty it ends up being...once the receipe and all the goodies are known.

Cheers

 

Given that I am from the Detroit area, it is not unreasonable for me to know about multiple major news stories. When I read a prior comment about the Northwest suit that I knew to be wrong, I corrected the record.

 

Just what is you point in accusing me of an "interest in this runs just a weebit deeper." I am a person with a disability (legally blind), and I cruise on Celebrity, that makes me plenty interested. If you are not interested, then stop reading and responding to this thread. It is really just that simple.

[Kellie Poodle]

I did not read anything about helping him off the toilet. If the bathroom was not truly HC accessible, e.g. had a lip on the floor as another poster claimed, he was misled into thinking he could manage on his own. You do not know what the cruise line disclosed.....don't jump to conclusion.

 

Do we know for certain that this cruise was not booked through a travel agent? Could the TA be the one who misrepresented the facts to the gentleman.

 

Uninformed travel agents are not all that rare.;)

[Feelin' Nauti']

I am longtime Celebrity cruiser and Mother of disabled adult. This situation does not sound plausible. If he is a world traveler and activist he should know about handicap access cabins which are on all ships. He should also know a disabled person needs to travel with a helper/companion on ships to foreign ports. I have a feeling he was doing a test case; how does X treat the disabled? Why was he not in handicapped stateroom? Was Celebrity made aware of his condition when he booked? Bet not. HC cabins are not usually full.

I agree with you...

 

By the statement....

They said they would not touch his body or help him despite the arrangements he made before paying for the $4,000 trip, he said.

 

“If they had to touch me or lift me, I would be made to disembark,” he said cruise officials told him.

 

“I was in shock and couldn’t believe it,” he said. “Before I got onboard nobody raised any issue about my disability.”

 

 

:cool:

 

I smell a fish.

 

He might have told the crew he was disabled... but didn't state he would assistance........showering, toileting....:rolleyes:

 

On the third day of the trip, Keskeny said he had a problem in the bathroom and slipped off the toilet.

 

“Not one of the workers would help me get back in my chair,” he said, noting fellow passengers helped him out.

 

Where were his friends he had lunch with? :cool:

[SusieV]

If people want to take a nude cruise that is their prerogative, but I am surprised that the CDC does not have a problem with nude personal parts having direct contact with chairs and sofas in public areas of the ship, that will be used by subsequent cruisers.

 

I believe that I read that nudist etiquette is to carry a small towel and to sit on the towel. No personal parts touch public furniture and I am sure lots of cleaning is done.

 

It's not my cup of tea (I'm so fair that I can't imagine getting sunburned on more sensitive parts!) but it wouldn't bother me if people wanted to be topless or naked, really. Like I said, it's just a body, I've got one too.

[SAN]

Our TA let us know that when my mother traveled in her wheel chair, she had to get a doctor to state that she needed a handicapped cabin. She also knew she needed to bring along a support person to be in the cabin with her.

[bob278]

I always assumed that on a cruise that was chartered, the only way to make a reservation was to go through the agency that chartered the ship. If that is the case, then it is up to the agency that booked him and the passenger himself to discuss any special needs.

 

And it would be very easy to assume anyone showing up for a cruise in a wheel chair has determined that they can take care of themselves or have someone coming that just isn't with them at the moment. It is likely that port agents are instructed not to ask people about their disabilities. Once when we went to a baseball game and needed seats that did not involve any steps (my wife had had a recent knee replacement), we were not asked why we needed them nor asked for proof. I asked them why they didn't verify it and I was told it was against the law as it was a violation of our privacy.

[luvbluseas]

Whatever mistakes happened, this man should be entitled to his cruise fare back and given a handicapped cabin on a future cruise- with the clear understanding that if he requires more than one visit from the ship's doctor for being unable to function on his own- he will again be disembarked.

 

I had a grandmother in a wheelchair and always wanted to take her on a cruise. It is totally doable but I don't think that it is wise to sail without help. In fact, bringing a trained nurse along would have been wise.

 

My question would be: Who told him that his cabin would be OK for a wheelchair? Did he fill out the special needs form that is on the Celebrity website. For example: I have special needs, youth programs. I read everything on the website about this before I sail. Given his condition: a visit to the website would have made it clear what to expect onboard. A vulnerable person like himself should have done this. Not all cruise lines are alike. He had a positive cruise experience before but he depended on the kindness of strangers and he probably had a handi-capped stateroom. A Larger stateroom is not a wheelchair accessible stateroom... he should have known this.

 

I "use" to be a Travel Agent and I have never heard of "Paying extra" so that the butler will take care of a handicapped person.

 

We are leaving in two weeks for a cruise on the Solstice and as my husband has been handicapped within the past year and is in the hospital having another portion of his foot amputated as I write this. I have spent a lot of time making sure that we will have an accessible stateroom, arranging for a mobility cart aboard and making sure what he will and will not be able to do. And we would NOT dream of him going alone.

 

Also, my brother has MS and he does not go ANYWHERE alone, he has a full time aide and his wife. If I were a staff member aboard a ship, in a restaurant, etc. I would NOT touch him either. You are not trained to! IF HE WERE TO CLAIM YOU INJURED HIM IN ANY WAY YOU ARE OPEN TO A LAWSUIT AND SO IS CELEBRITY AND ROYAL CARIBBEAN!! My DH was an RN for 30 and over the years he stopped at a few accident scenes to assist victims. One time a victim tried to sue him for some 'claimed' injury but we lived in Maryland then and was protected under the law. The staff of the ship would NOT be protected, and as activist this person KNEW THIS.

 

I think this is a case of this person looking for a big payday OR at least a case of:

His side

Celebrity's side

AND the Truth

 

BUT I do not see where Celebrity did anything wrong, they are not a Rehab Center or a Nursing Home. They were absolutely correct to NOT touch this man!

 

My Mother tripped and fell on the gang way once, and the crew rushed to her aid. They brought a wheel chair, offered to take her for medical attention, etc. BUT they waited for my husband and I to help her get up and then we all assisted her into the wheel chair. She was fine, just scared herself. But they pushed her onto the ship offered her her champagne, called her stateroom later that day and then the next day to be sure she was feeling OK and offered her a glass of wine/bubbly water or another choice with dinner that night. I find it hard to believe that they did not have good reason to put this man off.

 

As I say my brother has had MS for a number of years now and I can't imagine him going on a cruise to celebrate something and his wife (or an aide or other friend or relative) going with him. Remember, his disease is so bad he fell off of the toilet!

[Arizona Laura]

Given that I am from the Detroit area, it is not unreasonable for me to know about multiple major news stories. When I read a prior comment about the Northwest suit that I knew to be wrong, I corrected the record.

 

Just what is you point in accusing me of an "interest in this runs just a weebit deeper." I am a person with a disability (legally blind), and I cruise on Celebrity, that makes me plenty interested. If you are not interested, then stop reading and responding to this thread. It is really just that simple.

 

I just find it a little coincidental that you were in law school in Fl according to a previous post from 2009 and you say you are legally blind above. http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=22077393&highlight=#post22077393

 

From the article in the Oakland Press by OP

"Keskeny’s only remedy is to have his lawyer, Bernstein, who is blind, travel to Miami and arbitrate with the cruise line. In addition, Bernstein is unable under the ticket contract to recover his cost and time of traveling and related case costs to represent Kreskeny in Miami."

 

Interesting!

 

Laura

[AMTDGT]

A "accessible" sky suites have a lip from the bathroom into the bedroom -- while not a step per se, it makes it hard for some wheelchair users to enter.

 

We just had an "accessible" Sky Suite. The lip is the same as the transitional molding between hard wood floor & tile or carpet & tile.

 

While not prejudging people who unfortunately have disabilities, my mother who was horribly disabled at the end of her life, would have easily managed the transition in her manual chair. She would not have been able to have done the transition to the toilette despite the bar. She would have needed her attendant help, just like at home.

 

By the way the shower in our suite was big enough for a chair, with a folding shower seat. The floor was continuous to the rest of the bathroom, the bath room door was bigger than normal.

 

There is something that doesn't add up here.

[caribbean52010]

There is. His story stated that there was an obstruction that prevented the wheel chair from rolling into the bathroom. All handicap accessible cabins have a flat floor between the cabin and the bathroom that a wheel chair can easily transverse.

 

The gentleman in the story complained that the bathroom was not accessible.

 

 

Well then why did he book this cabin. If he is an ACTIVIST as it has been pointed out, he would be fully aware there are handicap cabins and those that are not.

 

Why did he book one that was NOT hadicap friendly? Doesn't make much sense to me but then a lot of things that are going on today don't make much sense either.

 

Like most of the postings, I smell something fishy here. Is it possible he was just trying to get attention and have all staterooms handicap friendly?

 

I am so much in favor of hadicap friendly places in all areas of life (we have two parents that are handicapped). But let's step back, get the facts and do the right thing and don't go overboard (no pun intended).

[cruisecrasy]

Do we know for certain that this cruise was not booked through a travel agent? Could the TA be the one who misrepresented the facts to the gentleman.

 

Uninformed travel agents are not all that rare.;)

 

Neither are uninformed cruise/travel pax rare who shell out large amts of cash and then want someone else to take not only the blame but to pay for it as well instead of doing some cruise 'homework' beforehand.. :(

 

Besides what handicapped person wld travel without knowing the facts & risks and wld go alone anyway? Its called being responsible but thats a dirty word these days mores the pity!! Since he chose to travel alone he took on the risks himself and gosh it didn't work well for him..so sad!!

 

Come on CCers - this fellow is an 'activist' - he is trying to stir up trouble and perhaps make some $ for himself and his cause - lets not be fooled here please!!..

[detroitcruiser]

I just find it a little coincidental that you were in law school in Fl according to a previous post from 2009 and you say you are legally blind above. http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=22077393&highlight=#post22077393

 

From the article in the Oakland Press by OP

"Keskeny’s only remedy is to have his lawyer, Bernstein, who is blind, travel to Miami and arbitrate with the cruise line. In addition, Bernstein is unable under the ticket contract to recover his cost and time of traveling and related case costs to represent Kreskeny in Miami."

 

Interesting!

 

Laura

 

 

Wow! You must have a lot of time on your hands to go read

My old posts. Yes, I am from Detroit but I attended law school in Florida. Your point?

[detroitcruiser]

Neither are uninformed cruise/travel pax rare who shell out large amts of cash and then want someone else to take not only the blame but to pay for it as well instead of doing some cruise 'homework' beforehand.. :(

 

Besides what handicapped person wld travel without knowing the facts & risks and wld go alone anyway? Its called being responsible but thats a dirty word these days mores the pity!! Since he chose to travel alone he took on the risks himself and gosh it didn't work well for him..so sad!!

 

Come on CCers - this fellow is an 'activist' - he is trying to stir up trouble and perhaps make some $ for himself and his cause - lets not be fooled here please!!..

 

What is wrong with being an activist -- securing civil rights for others.

[rebeccalouiseagain]

The man went on the cruise because it was a nude cruise. His enthusiasm for this type of cruise must have trumped logic.

[Kellie Poodle]

What is wrong with being an activist -- securing civil rights for others.

 

There is nothing wrong with being an activist. What I find a little disturbing about this instance is that the activist comes across as having set up the scenario he intends to use to prove his point.

 

Surely, as an attorney, you must have noted the attempt to sway the disabled population, if not the general population from not only sailing with Celebrity, but he also mentions Royal Caribbean. Surely you noted the libelous language of his quote?

 

Finally, if he were a "true" activist with righting a civil wrong in mind, he would have read his contract before creating an issue that I find indefensible.

 

I'm afraid that he has done more to hurt the legitimate civil rights of handicapped persons than he has to help them. As a result of his law suit, it is quite possible that cruise lines will place stronger obstacles in the way of handicapped cruisers than were in place when the gentleman cruised

[CaroleLee]

Well, this guy is gonna be the center of attention, and he probably loves it. As will his lawyer.

 

Just because someone has a disability or uses a wheelchair does not make them a wonderful human being. Some really are nice and some are nasty, just like the rest of the population.

 

It seems, though, that sometimes the very nature of the job of being a disability activist or advocate fosters a confrontational attitude. Or maybe it's just that confrontional people tend to gravitate towards such jobs.

 

In my area, there is one guy-an educated, retired scientist- who also has MS and has sort of self appointed himself as the local activist in all matters concerning the ADA, etc etc. He has managed to get himself placed on numerous commmittees and has alientated almost everyone he meets. He is obnoxious, combative, bitter, and does a heckuva lot more harm to the disability community than he does good. He is the kind who likely would have been put off the ship too.

 

Fortunately, locally we also have many people with disabilities and those who serve them in some capacity who are effective advocates and their efforts are needed to counteract the bad image the previous guy projects.

 

As far as this case, the guy did not get an accessible cabin. He did not provide for an attendant or other appropriate assistance. He makes the point in the story that the ship should have been aware of his status and needs when they saw him checking in and somehow provided accommodations. I wonder if they thought they had some magical powers that would have alerted them to the fact that he didn't plan for his needs.

 

Clearly, lifting, seating, etc is beyond any resonsibility of the crew and they would have been very wrong and negligent if they had attempted to do so.

 

Apparently, it got to the point that the cruise line felt that they were unable to safely accommodate him and they had no choice but to remove him from the sailing. To allow him to remain would have been jeopardizing his well being and safety. I suspect it was not a bit of fun for the staff and crew to have to try to deal with him.

 

So, am sorry it ended the way it did, but it was the passenger's fault.

 

Before anyone flames me for being insenstive, I have a special needs child and spent the last 23 years of my working career serving (and advocating for) people with disabilities as a Certified Rehabilitation Counselor. I still have many friends who are deaf, blind, use a wheelchair, have MS, etc. and I am sure they would have the same opinion of this situation.

 

Happy Sails to You

 

OOOEEE :D:D Bob and Phyl

 

Its not being insensitive it's being realaistic. As you said"He makes the point in the story that the ship should have been aware of his status and needs when they saw him checking in and somehow provided accommodations. " First this was a charter cruise so his problem is with the charter company not X. Just because someone arrives in a w/c staff cannot make the determination that the pax needs/does not need special assistance. Retruning from Paris I tripped and sprained my ankle a few hrs prior to my flight. When I arrived a CDG I requested a w/c-just to be able to get to the gate & on the plane. I was able to hop to the plane's restroom. So was I a special needs client?- Not really IMHO. Second- as I have said previously he stated that he is a world traveler. As a world traveler he should know to read all the information regarding his trip prior to booking. The X booklet on any cruise contains all the legal information regarding behavior, special needs etc.

So it appears that he just likes to make a scene so that he can gain something- publicity/$$ etc.

Carole