Qantas grounds every flight

[bobhsv]

According to a news story on Yahoo! today, all the Qantas flights from LAX on Friday night (or last night in Los Angeles, whatever day that is in Australia!) were already in the air when the lockout was announced. It says that there were no passengers left stranded at LAX. Hopefully your friends have already arrived and now just have to worry about getting home!

 

 

Well, guess what, the media is wrong. We are currently emailing back and forth constantly with eachother. They were placed in a hotel in LA for the night, are currently securing flights with Virgin LA to Syd, waiting for final confirmation of seats. Lots of aussies with them at the hotel, and all without plans, just waiting for answers/resolution. At least our friends TA have had the brains to get in quick and book them with Virgin. So, one more day for them in LA. They are tired, but coping well, and just taking it as it comes.

Jen

[icat2000]

Well, guess what, the media is wrong. We are currently emailing back and forth constantly with eachother. They were placed in a hotel in LA for the night, are currently securing flights with Virgin LA to Syd, waiting for final confirmation of seats. Lots of aussies with them at the hotel, and all without plans, just waiting for answers/resolution. At least our friends TA have had the brains to get in quick and book them with Virgin. So, one more day for them in LA. They are tired, but coping well, and just taking it as it comes.

Jen

Australian television reports weren't wrong. They were reporting passengers stuck in LAX due to the grounding of three flights. They even spoke to an American couple who said they were on the plane settling in when they were told to get back off because of the grounding.

 

Good to hear your friends are coping under extremely trying conditions. Must be frustrating.

[Debsta]

These are the people who "allegedly" voted for Joyce's payrise at the AGM on Friday and who would be spewing with the current shutdown. These major companies have now been exposed to more loss. It shoud also be noted that share values have dropped from $5.60 to $1.50 with Joyce at the helm, albeit the GFS contributed, however, most business has gained and paid dividends since the "market correction :p".......Qantas has not. Some of this can be contributed to us, the community of people who want cheaper. Qantas want to outsource to Asia, which is not the answer.

 

Qantas has been ripe for the picking and Singapore Airlines have them firmly in their takeover sights.

 

Just a little bit of trivia :D

 

 

The shareholder information set out below was applicable as at 25 August 2011.

TWENTY LARGEST SHAREHOLDERS

Shareholders Ordinary Shares Held % of Issued Shares

1. J P Morgan Nominees Australia 514,714,244 22.72

2. HSBC Custody Nominees (Australia) Limited 428,322,920 18.91

3. National Nominees Limited 413,707,968 18.26

4. Citicorp Nominees Pty Limited 253,053,991 11.17

5. Cogent Nominees Pty Limited 61,453,682 2.71

6. Australia Reward Investment 26,218,238 1.16

7. Queensland Investment Corporation 23,839,514 1.05

8. Pacifica Group Plans Ltd 18,643,539 0.82

9. Tasman Asset Management Ltd 16,207,553 0.72

10. AMP Life Limited 14,876,875 0.66

11. Bond Street Custodians Limited 14,263,539 0.63

12. USB Wealth Management Australia Nominees Pty Ltd 8,106,591 0.36

13. The Senior Master of the Supreme Court 6,112,703 0.27

14. USB Nominees Pty Ltd 4,242,348 0.19

15. UCA Growth Fund Limited 3,500,000 0.15

16. ARGO Investments Limited 3,464,661 0.15

17. Suncorp Custodian Services Pty Ltd 2,680,629 0.12

18. Share Direct Nominees Pty Ltd 2,602,275 0.11

19. Woodross Nominees Pty Ltd 2,234,783 0.10

20. RBC Dexia Investor Services Limited 1,939,433 0.09

Total 1,820,185,486 80.36

DISTRIBUTION OF ORDINARY SHARES

Analysis of ordinary shareholders by size of shareholding:

Number of Shares Ordinary Shares Held Number of Shareholders % of Issued Shares

1–1,0001 23,253,834 51,449 1.03

1,001–5,000 159,187,333 63,734 7.03

5,001–10,000 81,938,158 11,665 3.62

10,001–100,000 132,212,892 6,304 5.84

100,001 and over 1,868,531,403 240 82.49

Total 2,265,123,620 133,392 100.00

1. 3,189,523 shareholders hold less than a marketable parcel of shares in Qantas.

SUBSTANTIAL SHAREHOLDERS

The following shareholders have notified that they are substantial shareholders of Qantas:

Shareholders Ordinary Shares Held % of Issued Shares

National Australia Bank Limited1 114,301,097 5.05

Commonwealth Bank of Australia2 171,298,307 7.56

Franklin Resources, Inc3 202,442,206 8.94

Balanced Equity Management Pty Limited4 183,766,868 8.11

The Capital Group Companies, Inc5 154,926,282 6.84

Westpac Banking Corporation Group6 115,135,358 5.08

 

 

[JMAUST]

As a regular flyer in Australia I have had a gutfull of the rolling stopages by the Qantas Unions. It had to be bought to a head. I do feel sorry for those who have had their holidays ruined but if this is not sorted now it will drag on for months and impact many more.

[room010]

Singapore Airlines is a superb operation and I'm sure they would run Qantas a lot more efficiently and cheaply yet profitably. Bring it on!

[Australian family]

Well, guess what, the media is wrong. We are currently emailing back and forth constantly with eachother. They were placed in a hotel in LA for the night, are currently securing flights with Virgin LA to Syd, waiting for final confirmation of seats. Lots of aussies with them at the hotel, and all without plans, just waiting for answers/resolution. At least our friends TA have had the brains to get in quick and book them with Virgin. So, one more day for them in LA. They are tired, but coping well, and just taking it as it comes.

Jen

 

That is where it pays at times to have used a TA instead of doing the bookings yourself. Will their plans still be okay?

[bobhsv]

Australian television reports weren't wrong. They were reporting passengers stuck in LAX due to the grounding of three flights. They even spoke to an American couple who said they were on the plane settling in when they were told to get back off because of the grounding.

 

Good to hear your friends are coping under extremely trying conditions. Must be frustrating.

 

 

Yes, I worded my previous post badly....I was referring to the other posters media info, which was incorrect saying all flights had left. Sorry for the confusion.

Jen:)

[The_Big_M]

Airlines have contingency plans for all sorts of situations. Maybe Joyce didn't tell teh shareholders because they thought they wouldn't have to resort to this extreme action.

 

The AGM finished Friday afternoon. Joyce notified the government Saturday afternoon. Nothing happened between those two points that justified his extreme action in shutting down the entire network.

 

Even where he has his dispute is with the international pilots and domestic is separate, but he's standing down all employees and disrupting many more passengers than are even involved to try to demonstrate his power and crush opposition.

 

In his announcement he gave so little justification. The fact the only answer he could come up with to try to get his way shows a lack of management nous and negotiating ability.

 

I'd be very surprised if those institutional voters who gave him the votes in Friday's AGM would have the same position now. Some are probably keen to crush any employee/union power, but others would be looking at the destruction of shareholder value he has brought on... unless the government and tribunal manage to incredibly negotiate a good resolution out of this mess.

[Aussie Gal]

Debsta,

 

I think you will find that most of those Companies with the big shares in Qantas are our Superfunds and that the money has come from all the workers around Australia. I feel sorry for those people who have their money invested in Qantas with the shareprice being so low and such low dividends. I am also feeling a bit of deja vu as it is starting to remind me of when Ansett was in so much trouble. That was such a horrible ending to a wonderful airline.

 

 

 

Jennie

[Raison]

It certainly is a bad situation for all those affected. I hope Fair Work Australia can get things moving again soon. And I hope the bickering and one upmanship stops before we lose our brand altogether and can begin to repair the reputation damage - if that is possible now!

[Debsta]

Here's an interesting article in the Financial Review for those interested in know what the unions are asking.

 

http://www.afr.com/p/business/companies/what_the_unions_want_1XPzVNsdfoO8ijqgol4e1O

 

And here's a funny picture :D

 

[icat2000]

The AGM finished Friday afternoon. Joyce notified the government Saturday afternoon. Nothing happened between those two points that justified his extreme action in shutting down the entire network.

 

Even where he has his dispute is with the international pilots and domestic is separate, but he's standing down all employees and disrupting many more passengers than are even involved to try to demonstrate his power and crush opposition.

 

In his announcement he gave so little justification. The fact the only answer he could come up with to try to get his way shows a lack of management nous and negotiating ability.

 

I'd be very surprised if those institutional voters who gave him the votes in Friday's AGM would have the same position now. Some are probably keen to crush any employee/union power, but others would be looking at the destruction of shareholder value he has brought on... unless the government and tribunal manage to incredibly negotiate a good resolution out of this mess.

I think he has been very clear why he made the decision. Go and listen to some of the interviews he gave to various media outlets today - try ABC News.

 

Also some of the early information coming out from Fair Work Australia raised issues about safety concerns and why the lockout was sudden.- "... unsafe for the airline to continue operating during a 72-hour notice period before the lockout because of concerns regarding fatigue and distraction among staff... " Source:

Read more:

http://www.theage.com.au/travel/travel-news/live-qantas-grounding-cripples-australian-air-travel-20111030-1mq0o.html#ixzz1cFi0ani7

 

Thanks Deb for the article - I suspect that is not the pay rise that is the issue. More to do with Unions telling Qantas how they should run the business and the job security clause. Not sure if there is any private sector employer that can guarantee job security in this current economic climate.

[Hot Chilli]

What I don't understand (and I don't understand much :) ) is how come Air New Zealand never has the same issues with strikes/unions/shareholders/CEO wages etc....

 

Logistically, New Zealand is the only other country that has the same problem as Australia. That is the high cost of running an airline because of our isolation from the rest of the world. They get it right so how come Qantas is getting it so wrong?

[Debsta]

What I don't understand (and I don't understand much :) ) is how come Air New Zealand never has the same issues with strikes/unions/shareholders/CEO wages etc....

 

Logistically, New Zealand is the only other country that has the same problem as Australia. That is the high cost of running an airline because of our isolation from the rest of the world. They get it right so how come Qantas is getting it so wrong?

 

Because they are 75% owned by the NZ Government.....which may change as the current government are looking to sell them off. They are also in bed with Virgin.

 

The last time the government sold them they almost went belly up and the government had to buy back in, around 2001.

[kuldalai]

The situation is as simple as this Qantas are losing heaps on their International operations, because they cannot compete with many Government sponsored airlines .

 

The Unions persist in outrageous wage claims when Qantas employees are already the highest paid in the Industry, they want guaranteed lifetime job security, all planes crewed by Aussies when Qantas flies worldwide, all planes maintained in Australia by Aussies etc .

 

If Qantas gives into these demands then costs and fares go up further, and Qantas will be uncompetitive and ultimately go out of business. QED.

 

So the Qantas Board has taken a tough stand, against Unions who are holding the Company to ransom. It is the Qantas Board who run Qantas, not a role that Unions have been trying to usurp for over a decade.

 

The CEO Alan Joyce is taking a lot of flak, when the anger should be directed at the three Unions who have disrupted flights for several months in an on going campaign of guerilla industrial action .

[newbie3]

...

[thied]

The situation is as simple as this Qantas are losing heaps on their International operations, because they cannot compete with many Government sponsored airlines .

 

The Unions persist in outrageous wage claims when Qantas employees are already the highest paid in the Industry, they want guaranteed lifetime job security, all planes crewed by Aussies when Qantas flies worldwide, all planes maintained in Australia by Aussies etc .

 

If Qantas gives into these demands then costs and fares go up further, and Qantas will be uncompetitive and ultimately go out of business. QED.

 

So the Qantas Board has taken a tough stand, against Unions who are holding the Company to ransom. It is the Qantas Board who run Qantas, not a role that Unions have been trying to usurp for over a decade.

 

The CEO Alan Joyce is taking a lot of flak, when the anger should be directed at the three Unions who have disrupted flights for several months in an on going campaign of guerilla industrial action .

 

why should the CEO/ Allan Joyce get a huge pay rise and turn around a say to the rest of the employies no to a pay rise and job security and now we/qantas is going to out sorce there jobs to an over sea's company.

 

Because Qantas is no longer able to be competive in the air line market.

 

I do think it goes way further then they/qantas/ Alan Joyce is letting on.

 

(Qantas employees are already the highest paid in the Industry,) THis may be true but they also the leaders in AIR SAFTY Qantas have never have a major air crash, the only incerdents they have had are from maintence has been done by over sea's maintence crews.

[room010]

The fact that Qantas has had a good safety record has nothing to do with the fact that it's staff is Australian and based here - it's mostly plain good luck. That's not to say its standards aren't excellent, they are. But there are plenty of other airlines with equally impressive safety records including (ironically?) Singapore Airlines. Employees are already the best paid in the the industry worldwide so when they continue to stage strikes and other disruptive industrial action in the pursuit of even more money they don't get my sympathy I'm afraid even when they continue to play the Safety Card. The unions are biting the hand that feeds them as usual :mad:

 

The other great Aussie airline Ansett went broke precisely because employees demanded more money than the company could afford to pay them. I don't see why our Govt should become involved in resolving the indistrial dispute of a private company but let's see what happens when our PM, the champion of the union movement, gets involved.

[The_Big_M]

I think he has been very clear why he made the decision. Go and listen to some of the interviews he gave to various media outlets today - try ABC News.

 

I heard the speech yesterday, where he stated why. It doesn't gel though, as the claims being made have not been so heated, and quality management would deliver better negotiation outcomes than has been seen here.

 

As for today's, I've listened but again insufficient justification has been presented. He further agreed to attend an interview with 7:30, but then had a change of heart and didn't show when the staff rep did. I think if he had sufficient justification there would not have been an issue for him to present that on such an influential program.

 

Also some of the early information coming out from Fair Work Australia raised issues about safety concerns and why the lockout was sudden.- "... unsafe for the airline to continue operating during a 72-hour notice period before the lockout because of concerns regarding fatigue and distraction among staff... "

 

Of course they'll attempt to come up with some justification. Who would expect anything else? But given right now if QANTAS hadn't taken unilateral action, the same staff would have been working without safety issue, so no extra demands are placed on them. As for "distraction", that's a false suggestion when they've worked in notice periods before industrial action before. Let's see some independantly certified evidence that this would be more distracting than any other industrial action.

 

Thanks Deb for the article - I suspect that is not the pay rise that is the issue. More to do with Unions telling Qantas how they should run the business and the job security clause. Not sure if there is any private sector employer that can guarantee job security in this current economic climate.

 

The article matches what I've heard so far. Yet you can see QANTAS are trying to deflect in it again, apparently for lack of any real argument, by again generalising about how well-paid they are and the defensive statement that they're trying to run the business. If negotiations were real, there would be specific sticking points.

 

Unfortunately, the sticking point is that Joyce is trying to change the agreements to enable staff to be gotten rid of. Which staff member who supports the business would be up for that?

[room010]

Unfortunately, the sticking point is that Joyce is trying to change the agreements to enable staff to be gotten rid of. Which staff member who supports the business would be up for that?

 

Depends who they are trying to get rid of? :cool:

[icat2000]

What I don't understand (and I don't understand much :) ) is how come Air New Zealand never has the same issues with strikes/unions/shareholders/CEO wages etc....

 

Logistically, New Zealand is the only other country that has the same problem as Australia. That is the high cost of running an airline because of our isolation from the rest of the world. They get it right so how come Qantas is getting it so wrong?

Because New Zealand got rid of unions with the Employment Contracts Act 1987 or some similiar year. I remember it. I was just starting out in the workforce.

 

Air New Zealand nearly went broke in 1980s and the Government bailed them out several times.

[Aussie Gal]

Dick Smith spoke yesterday about Qantas and he said that for Qantas to compete with Singapore Airlines, Cathay, Emirates etc. Qantas does need to have their maitenance done off shore as we cannot compete with the wages that the other airlines pay out. It is a sorry state when we cannot employ our own workers to do the jobs but that is what happens with a worldwide economy.

 

Our manufacturing has just above gone from Australia due to our high wages. Remember when TV's were made here, they certainly cost us a lot of money. Now we can buy TV's from $200 up. I bet if we still had Aussie TV's in the shops, and they were competing against the overseas TV's, we wouldn't buy them due to the high prices.

 

I think that is a similar situation to Qantas, they are competing against airlines where the cost of labour is so much cheaper. It is a no win situation.

 

Jennie

[rugbypopsie]

Looks like they have a temporary return to work...but I wont relax until we are home from our Europe holidays next year. If I knew what was going to happen I would have booked flights with another airline.:mad:

 

And yes I do have travel insurance...but this is a reminder to everyone...dont leave home without it and make sure you read the fine print.

[Izabelle]

I have just returned from Flight Centre to claim my refund for cancelled flights for yesterday, Adelaide to Sydney return, all fixed up and a full refund in the next couple of weeks if only getting to Sydney yesterday had proved as easy I would be relaxing on Sea Princess now...sigh*

 

There was just no way we could get to Sydney when we heard Saturday afternoon about the grounding, both Jetstar and Virgin fully booked and to late to get there any other way.

 

I did ring Princess with the faint hope of cruising on the next See Princess cruise identical to the one we had and just transfer to that one but not to be, insurance will cover the cruise and the initial disappointment has just about gone now, the worst part was unpacking yesterday but I did have my own bed to sleep in and we are not stranded a long way from home like some people are.

 

Oh well looks like I will have to start looking for another cruise in the New year.

[Australian family]

I have just returned from Flight Centre to claim my refund for cancelled flights for yesterday, Adelaide to Sydney return, all fixed up and a full refund in the next couple of weeks if only getting to Sydney yesterday had proved as easy I would be relaxing on Sea Princess now...sigh*

 

There was just no way we could get to Sydney when we heard Saturday afternoon about the grounding, both Jetstar and Virgin fully booked and to late to get there any other way.

 

I did ring Princess with the faint hope of cruising on the next See Princess cruise identical to the one we had and just transfer to that one but not to be, insurance will cover the cruise and the initial disappointment has just about gone now, the worst part was unpacking yesterday but I did have my own bed to sleep in and we are not stranded a long way from home like some people are.

 

Oh well looks like I will have to start looking for another cruise in the New year.

 

I am sorry to hear that you couldn't make your cruise, you are lucky you are covered by your insurance, always pays to have insurance.

 

Terrible that you had packed and couldn't even get away. At least you are positive about the whole experience.

 

All the best for finding another cruise. I wonder how many passengers missed that cruise?