lcd display and sunlight

[pablo312]

My wife and I are in the process of buying a digital point and shoot camera for our Alaska trip next summer. I'm concerned about buying a camera that has an LCD display and no viewfinder. From talking to people who own digitial P&S cameras, the LCD display gets completely washed out in sunlight. I noticed this problem when I used my cell phone as a camera on a recent vacation.

 

I've also read on the Web that having a camera with a viewfinder may not be the solution. The view finder will always indicate that the camera is in focus when that is not true. I can understand that because that could happen with film P&S cameras, but usually auto-focus minimized that occurence. I don't know how effective the auto-focus is on digital P&S cameras.

 

I don't want to buy and use DSLR camera for vacation. Many, many years ago, I used an SLR camera on vacation. While I got great pictures, it was a big hassle dealing with the camera. I want a P&S camera. To still be able to take pictures in sunlight, should I get a P&S camera with a view finder in addition to the LCD display or are there cameras with LCD displays that don't get washed out in sunlight? Does anyone know of camera that has an LCD display that does not wash out in the sunlight?

 

You advice and opinions will be greatly appreciated.

[pierces]

My wife and I are in the process of buying a digital point and shoot camera for our Alaska trip next summer. I'm concerned about buying a camera that has an LCD display and no viewfinder. From talking to people who own digitial P&S cameras, the LCD display gets completely washed out in sunlight. I noticed this problem when I used my cell phone as a camera on a recent vacation.

 

I've also read on the Web that having a camera with a viewfinder may not be the solution. The view finder will always indicate that the camera is in focus when that is not true. I can understand that because that could happen with film P&S cameras, but usually auto-focus minimized that occurence. I don't know how effective the auto-focus is on digital P&S cameras.

 

I don't want to buy and use DSLR camera for vacation. Many, many years ago, I used an SLR camera on vacation. While I got great pictures, it was a big hassle dealing with the camera. I want a P&S camera. To still be able to take pictures in sunlight, should I get a P&S camera with a view finder in addition to the LCD display or are there cameras with LCD displays that don't get washed out in sunlight? Does anyone know of camera that has an LCD display that does not wash out in the sunlight?

 

You advice and opinions will be greatly appreciated.

 

I have been recommending the Sony HX9V lately because of its extensive feature set, small size and image quality. Another point is the bright LCD which is better than the one on my HX5V. I have used mine almost daily in all kinds of light, including sunny Caribbean beaches.

 

Take a look at the specs at Amazon/:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-Cyber-shot-DSC-HX9V-Digital-Panorama/dp/B004HYFX0C

 

Hopeully a couple of the folks who have just picked one up will chime in.

 

Dave

[zackiedawg]

I've also read on the Web that having a camera with a viewfinder may not be the solution. The view finder will always indicate that the camera is in focus when that is not true.

 

Just to clarify on that point - this can be true when using cameras with optical viewfinders seperate from the lens. Some P&S cameras have that small viewfinder window that is really used for nothing more than framing, and doesn't give indication of focus. However, when dealing with cameras that use electronic viewfinders (EVFs) those are actually displaying exactly what focus the sensor is seeing, so it will show precisely whether the camera is in focus, or focused on the right spot. It's essentially just an LCD screen, made really tiny and stuck inside a tube! Also, with DSLR cameras, just like SLR cameras back in the film days, the optical viewfinder is actually looking through the lens, therefore will always show whether the camera is in focus.

 

I can understand that because that could happen with film P&S cameras, but usually auto-focus minimized that occurence. I don't know how effective the auto-focus is on digital P&S cameras.

 

Indeed this is the case - even with those little viewfinder windows, the camera's own autofocus system is doing its job - and autofocus systems are quite good on P&S digitals...I'd dare say better than they were on most film P&S cameras. You usually have variable focus areas you can select - spot, center, wide - so you can help the camera focus where you want it to. But using the LCD to actually see that focus, or an electronic viewfinder, is always best, so you can confirm that what the camera focused on is what you wanted to focus on.

 

or are there cameras with LCD displays that don't get washed out in sunlight? Does anyone know of camera that has an LCD display that does not wash out in the sunlight?

 

There are certainly differences in LCD displays - they're not all made equally. Some technologies to look for which can aid in seeing LCDs in bright sunlight include: anti-glare coatings, tru-black screens, extremely high resolution screens, OLED screens or screens capable of gaining up the brightness significantly, screens that have automatic light sensors which boost the brightness when bright light is detected, or special 'sunny' modes to boost brightness. Some Sony cameras have very high resolution, tru-black, anti-glare, and sunny and auto modes which do make them a bit better than some of the more basic ones...Samsung has OLED screens on some of their cameras which are significantly brighter and clearer than most typical LCD screens. Some other manufacturers have high-end LCDs too like the Sony, at least on some models - Panasonic and Canon are known to offer a few models with such.

 

Many P&S cameras in the 'ultrazoom' category have electronic viewfinders - they are not pocketable and built more chunky like tiny DSLRs, but are significantly lighter and smaller than any DSLR and still often good for travel and all-purpose shooting. And you might also consider some of the mirrorless class of large-sensor cameras, which could be interesting if you are seriously considering getting into photography or want to push your abilities in situations like low light and indoors - these cameras have DSLR-sized or slightly smaller sensors, interchangeable lenses if you decide you want that ability (though they can also be used with just a single lens if so desired), excellent low light ability and faster focus systems, but are much smaller and lighter than DSLRs - sort of an 'in-between' of DSLRs and P&Ss. Some models offer electronic viewfinders built-in, some offer add-on electronic viewfinders, and pretty much all of them use top-spec, high-res type LCD screens or OLED screens.

[awboater]

I bought a Nikon P7000 as my primary point & shoot exactly due to the issues with washed out screens. In the sunny Caribbean, there are often times when you cannot see a thing on the screen.

 

True, an optical viewfinder on a compact camera has it's faults:

 

While it might not show whether the focus is correct or not, neither does a washed-out screen.

 

And while the optical viewfinder may not show 100% of the scene, it at least provides a good indication whether or not the camera is level, and a good idea at least of what you are shooting at.

 

And while not perfect, it is still manageable, and better than guessing with a washed out screen.

 

I also have tried one of those screen shades, but like anything else, if helps in some regard, but it is no panacea.

[tommui987]

And if you are wearing polaroid sunglasses, you might consider taking them off when you are photographing.

[setsail]

We use 2 canon P/S's. The larger one(SX20) has a viewfinder but we wanted a smaller one-pocket size. After reading up we decided on the canon SD3500. I was worried about washout but we have not had any problems at all out in full sun. It has a large 3.5" touchscreen and is easy to see in the sun. It also has a fisheye setting. Its not a cheap P/S though.

[awboater]

There is such a thing as daylight viewable LCD screens; I have them on my marine navigation system screens.

 

But they are very expensive, and I didn't realize that they are perhaps making an appearance in cameras. I suppose it is only a matter of time.

 

Here is a shot of my daylight viewable LCD navigation screen on my boat:

 

[knittinggirl]

When checking out your LCD, be sure to study it vertical too. I had a camera that looked fine in the horizontal orientation, only to have the image disappear completely in the vertical. There are devices you can get to help you see the LCD, such as the Hoodman's Hoodloupe Professional. I also can't see my LCD with my polarizer sunglasses.

[donaldsc]

Also, with DSLR cameras, just like SLR cameras back in the film days, the optical viewfinder is actually looking through the lens, therefore will always show whether the camera is in focus.

 

 

True but not totally true. When you view through the lens, you are always viewing through a wide open lens unless you override the default settings and do stop down viewing. The problem with this is that the depth of field (DOF) is much greater when stopped down as compared to the DOF wide open.

 

Suppose you have a foreground object that you want to have in focus and a background object that you want to be blurred. It may appear blurred when viewing it because of the small DOF at wide open. The problem is that when the lens automatically stops down before it takes a picture, you may find that background object and foreground objects are both in focus.

 

All SLRs (digital and otherwise) will let you view the image at the actual lens opening that you will be taking the picture at. If you have spent a lot of time composing an image, it is a good idea to check this before you take the picture.

 

There is yet another problem. Many people take pictures with their camera set a Automatic or Program mode. The problem with these modes is that the camera decides based on some internal algorithm what the best combination of f stop and shutter speed will be. You have no control over it.

 

If you want to control either the shutter speed or the DOF, you need to take your pictures in either S or A mode.

 

Complicated but taking good pictures always is.

 

DON

[pierces]

 

All SLRs (digital and otherwise) will let you view the image at the actual lens opening that you will be taking the picture at. If you have spent a lot of time composing an image, it is a good idea to check this before you take the picture.

 

DON

 

Just an FYI...

 

Several entry-level models like the Nikon D40/D60, Sony A2xx/A3xx, Canon T3 and others do not have a dedicated DOF preview button. A few offer the option to assign the function to a utility control button, but it seems it was decided that people new to DSLRs wouldn't need one. This always seemed counter-intuitive to me since, as you say, more control over the depth of field is one of the reasons to move up to a DSLR. I guess they figured chimping the LCD was a viable alternative...

 

Dave

[Victress2007]

Take a look at the "I got out and used my camera today" thread, the last 3 posts to it were taken with this camera. I live in AZ, plenty sunny even at this time of the year. The LCD is pretty good even in the sun, it's MY focus I am having trouble with!

 

It has a lot of manual options, a ton of features, and is just an amazing little camera.

 

Vic

[zackiedawg]

True but not totally true. When you view through the lens, you are always viewing through a wide open lens unless you override the default settings and do stop down viewing. The problem with this is that the depth of field (DOF) is much greater when stopped down as compared to the DOF wide open.

 

Indeed - I was simplifying in my quick summary, and didn't get into apertures fixed open and depth of field issues - certainly using the DOF preview button if you have one is always a good idea for critical and fine focusing. As Dave mentioned, some entry-levels don't have one, and mirrorless cameras and P&S cameras simply simulate your exposure based on aperture choice, but offer no actual depth of field in the display.

 

Suppose you have a foreground object that you want to have in focus and a background object that you want to be blurred. It may appear blurred when viewing it because of the small DOF at wide open. The problem is that when the lens automatically stops down before it takes a picture, you may find that background object and foreground objects are both in focus.

 

That is the downside of cameras without DOF preview - the upside is that for the average consumer who really hasn't mastered control over depth of field, the focus beng displayed in the LCD or EVF is at least likely to be accurate as to the subject they intended to focus on, since it's being shown at minimal DOF, and they'll be shooting most likely at a smaller aperture.

 

There is yet another problem. Many people take pictures with their camera set a Automatic or Program mode. The problem with these modes is that the camera decides based on some internal algorithm what the best combination of f stop and shutter speed will be. You have no control over it. If you want to control either the shutter speed or the DOF, you need to take your pictures in either S or A mode.

 

True enough for Auto mode, as those offer absolutely no user input. However, P mode is not as bad, as it does offer the user some control over the exposure via manipulation of the shutter and aperture, as well as control over which focus and metering points are used, white balance, ISO setting, etc. Using either P shift functionality or by adjusting the EV, a user can alter the camera's shutter & aperture in P mode - it's just a matter of learning exposures in order to understand what shutter & aprture the camera has chosen, and why it is incorrect for the shot you intend. Many a skilled photographer who shoots with a DSLR and a simplified P&S has learned how to manipulate a mostly automatic P&S camera that has few controls - because they understand exposure, they can see the chosen settings of the camera and manipulate them as needed by adjusting EV, or switching to spot meter and locking exposure at the appropriate shutter or aperture, or shifting the program setings if available on that camera.

 

While DSLRs offer many more controls for a photographer to more easily make adjustments and choose parameters, a skilled photographer can always figure out ways to take control even with a more simplified camera...it just takes a little more work and some creativity. My pocket P&S only has Auto or P modes, but when I use it, I will get the shutter speed I need or the aperture I want out of it, even if the little electronic gnomes inside try to take all the decisions away from me. I have ways of manipulating the little guys! ;)

[johneeo]

I have a D5000. I NEVER use the LCD, always the viewfinder.

 

I would not purchase a camera that did not have a viewfinder, JMHO

[Nole0202]

True but not totally true. When you view through the lens, you are always viewing through a wide open lens unless you override the default settings and do stop down viewing. The problem with this is that the depth of field (DOF) is much greater when stopped down as compared to the DOF wide open.

 

Suppose you have a foreground object that you want to have in focus and a background object that you want to be blurred. It may appear blurred when viewing it because of the small DOF at wide open. The problem is that when the lens automatically stops down before it takes a picture, you may find that background object and foreground objects are both in focus.

 

All SLRs (digital and otherwise) will let you view the image at the actual lens opening that you will be taking the picture at. If you have spent a lot of time composing an image, it is a good idea to check this before you take the picture.

 

There is yet another problem. Many people take pictures with their camera set a Automatic or Program mode. The problem with these modes is that the camera decides based on some internal algorithm what the best combination of f stop and shutter speed will be. You have no control over it.

 

If you want to control either the shutter speed or the DOF, you need to take your pictures in either S or A mode.

 

Complicated but taking good pictures always is.

 

DON

 

This is the most important suggestion in the thread.

Get a P&S with S and A mode capabilities, and do not use Auto, Prog or AutoISO modes.

1. Shoot in S or A to control DOF and shake

2. Keep ISO at 400 max for a P&S

3. Use the flash if there is not enough light

4. Get closer to the subject

This will cover most of your photo requirements

[johneeo]

This is the most important suggestion in the thread.

Get a P&S with S and A mode capabilities, and do not use Auto, Prog or AutoISO modes.

1. Shoot in S or A to control DOF and shake

2. Keep ISO at 400 max for a P&S

3. Use the flash if there is not enough light

4. Get closer to the subject

This will cover most of your photo requirements

 

Also, it is important to understand how aperture and shutter speed effect the DOF and the end result.

[pierces]

Also, it is important to understand how aperture and shutter speed effect the DOF and the end result.

 

Only the aperture (also sensor size from camera to camera) affects the depth of field. To control the depth of field, you need to consider the entire trinity of exposure, Aperture, Shutter Speed and Sensitivity (ISO).

 

All of the following will give the exact same exposure on a typical sunny day with a wide variation in effective depth of field:

 

 

To change the aperture and therefore the depth of field, the shutter and ISO need to be taken into consideration.

 

This wasn't for you johneeo...I'm just adding clarification. ;)

 

Dave

[johneeo]

This wasn't for you johneeo...I'm just adding clarification. ;)

 

Dave

 

Good post.

 

I remember when I began, I knew nothing about apperture, shutter speed, ISO. Especially how they needed to work together.

 

I remember how many times I had to think about apperture, the bigger the number / fStop, the SMALLER the apperture.:confused: Bigger fStop is smaller apperture.

 

So, I always suggest to those new to photography, learn about apperture, shutter speed, and ISO.

[Turtles06]

I have a D5000. I NEVER use the LCD, always the viewfinder.

 

I would not purchase a camera that did not have a viewfinder, JMHO

 

Years ago, when digital cameras were first coming out, and I was looking at some small P&Ss at my favorite local camera shop (a wonderful mom and pop place since done in by the big box stores), there were some that had no viewfnders. I still remember them telling me that "if it doesn't have a viewfinder, it isn't a camera." :)

[pierces]

Years ago, when digital cameras were first coming out, and I was looking at some small P&Ss at my favorite local camera shop (a wonderful mom and pop place since done in by the big box stores), there were some that had no viewfnders. I still remember them telling me that "if it doesn't have a viewfinder, it isn't a camera." :)

 

My guess is that resistance to change was as much responsible for the shop's demise as the big-box competition..;)

 

I remember a pro photographer giving a seminar on a cruise ship back in 2002 stating with firm conviction that any "camera" that doesn't use film wasn't really a camera. He flatly declared that film would always be superior because it had been proven that simple physics limited digital sensors to no more than 5MP and ISO 400 unless they were made too large to fit in a portable camera. The EOS-1D at the time was 4.5MP with a cap of ISO 1600 and rumors of the 11MP 1Ds were already flying about, so I figured that he might not be as much of an authority as claimed. We were also warned that those of us who had given up our film equipment to go digital were going to be sorry when the fad died out and we would have to buy back into film.

 

I wonder what Mom and Pop or my Pro would say about the Lytro Light Field camera?

 

Dave

[pablo312]

Wow! I'm happy that I posted on this Board. Lots of great advice and things to consider. I appreciate the recommendations on cameras with good LCD screens and tips on LCD display features. That will be very helpful. The choices of digital cameras are overwhelming.

 

On another board, I was advised to have a backup camera for my upcoming trip. That's a good idea. Since most of my experience is with film SLR and P&S cameras, I'm thinking about buying a Canon A1200. For about a $100 price, I thought it might be a good starter digital camera. It has an optical viewfinder, uses AA batteries, and has a 4X zoom. Reminds me of a digital version of the Canon Sureshot which took good photos. After I use the Canon, I can determine the features that I need for a more advanced P&S camera.

[Turtles06]

My guess is that resistance to change was as much responsible for the shop's demise as the big-box competition..;)

 

 

Actually not. Mom and Pop's son, who was pretty much running the business by the late '90s, was totally into all new things. He also provided fantastic advice and service, would let you take a new camera you were thinking about buying away with you for a day to try it out, would spend whatever time you wanted with you answering questions, etc. Just great service.

 

What I think did them in was that people would take up a load of their time, get their help deciding what they wanted to buy, and then go buy it on line or at Best Buy to save 10 bucks (or less).

 

The first time I bought a camera without their input, I almost felt lost!

[pierces]

Actually not. Mom and Pop's son, who was pretty much running the business by the late '90s, was totally into all new things. He also provided fantastic advice and service, would let you take a new camera you were thinking about buying away with you for a day to try it out, would spend whatever time you wanted with you answering questions, etc. Just great service.

 

What I think did them in was that people would take up a load of their time, get their help deciding what they wanted to buy, and then go buy it on line or at Best Buy to save 10 bucks (or less).

 

The first time I bought a camera without their input, I almost felt lost!

 

I had a shop like that about 10 miles from where I lived for as long as I can remember. Great counter people and wide selection. Sometime in the mid '90s, the original owners sold out and the new folks were very "pro"-oriented and treated you like an idiot if you didn't make your living with your camera and didn't own a Nikon. It took me a couple of visits to write them off and apparently, I wasn't alone. A year later the shop space was split in half and made into a one-hour photo/copy store and a GNC health food store. When the original owners were there, I would pay the 5% or 10% premium to buy from them because of the great service.

 

At least when the internet killed off stores like those, it gave us boards like there!

 

Dave